IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[thesaint]

TG has accounts on his blog of a "person close to the investigation" who says LS was at the bar drunk and talking of being high on xanax and cocaine, this source says she was in the bar alone (not with CR), and that she was thrown out because of her condition.

1. experienced indulgers in cocaine usually use some sort of downer to mellow the high of the cocaine. Belushi and others have died doing speedballs (cocaine mixed with heroin). Xanax OR alcohol are very popular among cocaine users--but not both together. Or at least not hard alcohol with xanax. Sipping a miller lite is one thing, but throwing back shots of hard liquor while ripped on coke and xanax is not a good idea, esp for a 5 foot nothing, 90 pound person.

2. Surprised she'd be reported to be alone at the bar. Could be she indulged in the all too typical college student rounds of shots of hard liquor when she shouldn't have. There is something to be said to be out and about with experienced users of whatever drug you're on.

 

[PineMushroom]

What I surmise:

LE (and parents) do not think LS was abducted by a stranger at this point.

I think this is right. I will go perhaps one-step further and suggest that BPD was hoping to identify the person driving the truck as a witness to anything at the time and in that area rather than suspecting the truck driver was an abductor - although I am sure they did not rule that out as a completely impossibility at that time. imho

 

[bluebirdii]

Maybe a bit off topic or maybe related - but again I have to think back to the time I was still in college - one night we were all out having a great time, having some drinks whilst out at a club, we all then went home, we were all about to go to sleep when I had this sudden urge to go visit the grave of a high school athletics partner - he died in a freak accident whilst doing his practical year in college and he made such an impact on my life that I do think of him alot and have never really been able to "close off" his death. Anyway, my friends tried to stop me and I pretended to agree, etc etc, they went to sleep, I hopped in my car (very very immature & dangerous) and drove 260miles to my hometown. Luckily I was safe and nothing happened. But what I'm trying to say is, sometimes a person will just get this urge to do something out of the blue without really thinking and which doesn't make sense to anyone. I think at this point, as bizarre as some theories may sound, it is worth considering them.

 

[thesaint]

What I surmise:

LE (and parents) do not think LS was abducted by a stranger at this point.

PD uses words like perplexing, confusing and unfortunate to describe LS's friends' lack of communications with PD. They don't use stronger words and I wonder if that is telling.

But then later LS's parents were all but saying they would understand and that they just needed to know where she was, so it seemed like they all had ruled out abduction by that point.

I haven't followed the parents or BPD communications, but your description dovetails with what I think is emerging as a possibly likely scenario:

Cocaine is often easier to get than xanax. It's possible that LS and friends had acquired some xanax that night and were maybe not completely familiar with its effects.

For example, CR's crashing and memory loss sounds like maybe he simply popped a xannie and crashed for the night. He'd sleep for half-a-day, most likely, and have trouble remembering the night before.

At that point, LS is still going and so she leaves CR's and MB's and heads for JR's. JR isn't aware of all that LS has been doing. LS does whatever at JR's and that's, that's, that's it.

It's also possible that LS simply slipped into a very deep, xanax-induced sleep at JR's and maybe he mistook it for something worse.

In terms of LS's parents and LE trying to signal to the crew that night (CR, MB, JR, ZO, et al) that they understand and they just want resolution--they might not hold their daughter blameless, maybe LS's roommate (HT?) or someone else clued them into LS's potential drug use and they put 2 and 2 together and not just want to close the circle.

That's gonna be difficult to do, with everyone lawyered up and not wanting to jeopardize their own futures.

 

[EllaMae]

"Cocaine is often easier to get than xanax. It's possible that LS and friends had acquired some xanax that night and were maybe not completely familiar with its effects."



Xanax is very easy to get. In fact....any of those kids could have a legal prescription for it. There are plenty of doctors willing to write a script for Xanax for anyone who complains of stress and anxiety.

 

[Jessicaleanne1992]

once again, any thoughts?

Looking at all the young, beautiful girls who just vanish;

Kara Kopetsky, Lauren Sperier, Holly Bobo, Brittanee Drexel

and that's only four who have gotten some media attention,
does anyone think that a prostitution cartel could be kidnapping these girls? And maybe they aren't just taking females, there are so many males who go missing too, maybe they are falling victim to it too. People don't just vanish without a trace. What else could it be? Are these cases really not connected at all? They seem way too alike to not be, I mean young, beautiful, and poof, gone. No evidence. No witnesses. Idk, maybe I'm reading too much in to this. Any thoughts?

 

[jennyb629]

On every forum it is posted that you can criticize the theory but not he person. Anyone who has been 'criticized by the moderators" has been done so because they attacked Walker himself, not his theories.

As one of the moderators said previously, all you have to do is ignore Walker if you are so against his/her ideas and theories.

This makes sense. I don't understand why so many people are taking the time to respond to theories they don't agree with. Why not just discuss other things and ignore it completely?

 

[PineMushroom]

I think this is right. I will go perhaps one-step further and suggest that BPD was hoping to identify the person driving the truck as a witness to anything at the time and in that area rather than suspecting the truck driver was an abductor - although I am sure they did not rule that out as a completely impossibility at that time. imho

I base my above on language of BPD (puzzling, etc) and LS's statements parents regarding friends. etc and also the actions of BPD of certainly focusing on 5 North individuals including polygraph requests, searches, multiple interviews (at least in the case of CR) and the geography of LS whereabouts, cameras and proximity to home. However, one could conclude that the release of the truck information (assuming that BPD ruled out POIs had access to such vehicle) was because they have nothing solid or at all on POIs and stranger abduction is any area LE is working with a stronger focus than I realize. Basically, I am open to the possibility of stranger abduction more than before, but really for me it is how one interprets LE's reason for releasing the truck information.

As for theories of LS going travelling to Israel (or Timbuktu, as the world is big place, no?), I find it nonsensical. all imho

 

[Berk13]

"Cocaine is often easier to get than xanax. It's possible that LS and friends had acquired some xanax that night and were maybe not completely familiar with its effects."



Xanax is very easy to get. In fact....any of those kids could have a legal prescription for it. There are plenty of doctors willing to write a script for Xanax for anyone who complains of stress and anxiety.

I agree. I think Xanax is much easier for these kids to get their hands on, and some of them probably view it as a necessary medication to deal with the things that happen in their day-to-day lives. I have posted this Wall Street Journal article on here before (when we were discussing how students view Bloomington as a safe "bubble"), but I wanted to mention it again. It is about the influx of East Coast students at IU, and the very last paragraph of the article contains a quote from a New York student at IU:

"I like when things go my way, and if something bad happens to me I'll cry all day and I'll need, like, a Xanax," she says. As for her classmates from Indiana, she says, "They seem....happier."

It seems like it's just a common drug for some students.

Here is the full article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122057234017401625.html

 

[kissdegirl]

once again, any thoughts?

Looking at all the young, beautiful girls who just vanish;

Kara Kopetsky, Lauren Sperier, Holly Bobo, Brittanee Drexel

and that's only four who have gotten some media attention,
does anyone think that a prostitution cartel could be kidnapping these girls? And maybe they aren't just taking females, there are so many males who go missing too, maybe they are falling victim to it too. People don't just vanish without a trace. What else could it be? Are these cases really not connected at all? They seem way too alike to not be, I mean young, beautiful, and poof, gone. No evidence. No witnesses. Idk, maybe I'm reading too much in to this. Any thoughts?

You're not alone in these thoughts. I even spent a little time mapping the locations these young people were all last seen.
I honestly don't feel that in LS' case that it was random, but who knows at this point except for those guys she was with... and they ain't sayin'!

 

[Gabby66]

I am not saying that the "Drug Lord" theory is likely, but I do think it's possible, and something to consider. It does happen. Just the other day a friend told me that he heard the outcome of one of his high school friends (who happens to also be from IN). I do not know how long ago this happened but I gathered within the last 5-10 years. The guy did some drugs in HS but out of their entire group, my friend felt that this guy was the most likely to change. My friend changed (or he wouldn't be my friend now) but apparently, this guy didn't,and he became heavily involved in coke. He was taken somewhere and shot execution style, along with a few other guys. These things happen. All it takes is to p$ss off the wrong person. It may not be the "Drug Lord". As someone said earlier, these were probably dealers buying from dealers buying from dealers. But someone eventually has to pay the "man with the gun" and people get scared. We have NO idea what some scared person would do for their money. If the little guy can't pay his little dealer, then that little dealer likely can't pay his bigger dealer, who then can't pay the Drug Lord. Sometimes even the little dealer will take drastic measures b/c he fears what the bigger dealer will do to him, knowing that HE would have to face the Drug Lord. It's a vicious cycle. I honestly think it's sometimes especially more dangerous when you are the little man on the totem pole b/c they likely have less money to front their "buyers". The ones in it big time usually make so much money that if someone doesn't come thru with a payment, they can skirt it and have nothing to fear. They may not be happy about it, but they usually CAN make their payments. We never know what motivates people to take drastic measures, but FEAR is often involved. That's what I see at play here because I do not view these kids as cold-blooded criminals. IF the three at 5 North are involved, I see one of the following:

1. They know who did it and they're so afraid, they won't speak about it.
2. LS OD'd and out of fear, they covered it up b/c they were worried they could get into trouble for giving her drugs.

The only other likely reason that all three would be involved together would be if they raped and killed her. I just don't think that's likely, for all three to happen to be in on that together. Of course if ONLY JR is involved, my opinion would be different.

The ONLY two reasons that I haven't discounted a drug connection with her disappearance are:

1. If the dog lost her scent in the alley and she was taken before getting to 5 North, then the boys seem to be acting out of fear of something for lying and saying that she went to their place (if she was really abducted before ever getting there). Why else lie?

2. JR has had a family connection to LS for years and years. I find it hard to believe he would rape and murder her. If she didn't OD at his place, there has to be SOMETHING that is keeping him in fear of talking to the police.

Of course, this theory only works IF they know something. I'm not ruling out that they know nothing else, she really left JR's place, and maybe was abducted, wandered into an abandoned building and fell somewhere, or went to JW's where her fate ended......

 

[Frogzilla]

Looking at all the young, beautiful girls who just vanish;

Kara Kopetsky, Lauren Sperier, Holly Bobo, Brittanee Drexel

and that's only four who have gotten some media attention,
does anyone think that a prostitution cartel could be kidnapping these girls? And maybe they aren't just taking females, there are so many males who go missing too, maybe they are falling victim to it too. People don't just vanish without a trace. What else could it be? Are these cases really not connected at all? They seem way too alike to not be, I mean young, beautiful, and poof, gone. No evidence. No witnesses. Idk, maybe I'm reading too much in to this. Any thoughts?

I think anyone who follows missing person cases will tell you this same thought has crossed their mind before. Then I ask myself this question. Which is more likely, organized sex traffickers randomly targeting young women or isolated incidents where somebody takes advantage of a vulnerable person. Then ask yourself, besides being young and attractive(which could describe A LOT of people), what do these missing persons have in common? Also, why would traffickers consistently target people who will be looked for with strong LE presence, when they are are A LOT of teens and young adults who may not have many options in life (runaways, orphans, etc..) and can be easily coerced or kidnapped and also wouldn't have loved ones constantly looking for them and also may not ever had a missing person report filed.

 

[jennyb629]

The ONLY two reasons that I haven't discounted a drug connection with her disappearance are:

1. If the dog lost her scent in the alley and she was taken before getting to 5 North, then the boys seem to be acting out of fear of something for lying and saying that she went to their place (if she was really abducted before ever getting there). Why else lie?

2. JR has had a family connection to LS for years and years. I find it hard to believe he would rape and murder her. If she didn't OD at his place, there has to be SOMETHING that is keeping him in fear of talking to the police.

Of course, this theory only works IF they know something. I'm not ruling out that they know nothing else, she really left JR's place, and maybe was abducted, wandered into an abandoned building and fell somewhere, or went to JW's where her fate ended......

I agree. I haven't discounted this drug connection theory either. I don't know about 'drug lord' being directly involved in LS's disappearance necessarily, but I do think a drug supplier could be a person some of the POIs are scared of and that could be why they won't talk (if in fact, they haven't talked...I guess it's possible that they actually have talked to LE and we just don't know)

I also agree with you--I don't think that JR/CR/MB seem likely to have raped and murdered LS either but I do think it's possible that they were all drinking/doing drugs and someone(s) wound up having sex with LS (I'm not saying a rape/violent attack just people who are drunk/high being stupid and having sex with someone who is not of a mind to legally give consent-not excusable behavior but not like they raped and killed her either). To me, though rape and murder are not likely with this group, drunk/high people having sex and then LS ODing and the person(s) who had had sex w/ her freaking out and hiding the body doesn't seem that unlikely.

Although technically, having sex with someone who is not able to give consent (because they are drunk/high/etc.) is rape, I don't think that one of these POI would then murder LS to cover up nonconsensual sex while drunk/high. If sex took place (consensual or not) I think it would be more likely that then LS ODed and that's the reason for a cover-up rather than a sex then murder scenario.

Another factor is that just because we don't believe JR/CR/MB would rape/harm LS, what about JR's visitor, who may not have had a personal connection/friendship with LS like those other guys did...

 

[Frogzilla]

Lauren Spierer case: Legal issues on searches, witnesses, grand juries answered
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/08/news.qp-1404018.sto

According to Shawn Boyne, associate professor at Indiana University School of Law-Indianapolis whose academic specialties include criminal law and procedure, there are several possible reasons why witnesses might refuse to talk.

“The primary reason why witnesses remain silent is that they may fear that, by speaking to the police they may expose themselves to potential criminal and civil liability,” Boyne said. “Although a prosecutor may offer a potential witness immunity in certain circumstances, that immunity only governs criminal actions. If a case where serious injury or death is a possibility, a witness with information may fear the potential criminal and civil liability. A second reason why a potential witness may remain silent is that they fear retribution from the person who actually committed the crime.”
Bloomington police Capt. Joe Qualters said in an interview late last week. Some even contacted police directly, inviting them onto their land. Qualters said he couldn’t think of one example where a private landowner gave resistance to a search for Spierer.

 

[Jupiter812]

I haven't followed the parents or BPD communications, but your description dovetails with what I think is emerging as a possibly likely scenario:

Cocaine is often easier to get than xanax. It's possible that LS and friends had acquired some xanax that night and were maybe not completely familiar with its effects.

For example, CR's crashing and memory loss sounds like maybe he simply popped a xannie and crashed for the night. He'd sleep for half-a-day, most likely, and have trouble remembering the night before.

At that point, LS is still going and so she leaves CR's and MB's and heads for JR's. JR isn't aware of all that LS has been doing. LS does whatever at JR's and that's, that's, that's it.

It's also possible that LS simply slipped into a very deep, xanax-induced sleep at JR's and maybe he mistook it for something worse.

In terms of LS's parents and LE trying to signal to the crew that night (CR, MB, JR, ZO, et al) that they understand and they just want resolution--they might not hold their daughter blameless, maybe LS's roommate (HT?) or someone else clued them into LS's potential drug use and they put 2 and 2 together and not just want to close the circle.

That's gonna be difficult to do, with everyone lawyered up and not wanting to jeopardize their own futures.

Actually, the only thing I can agree with in your scenario is the part about the parents. It's probably one of the simplest and best descriptions I've read. Nothing more, nothing less.

The other incidences you describe is where I disgree. As stated above, Xanax is easy to get. Remember we're talking about Smallwood that is known for its party and overall permissive atmosphere (drugs, alcohol flow). We're also talking about a member(s) of a fraternity that was kicked out of IU for drugs and hazing. A new chapter has formed and NONE of the previous members are allowed in.

It appears that Xanax is not a little pill that is popped but is done in bars that are commonplace.

LS was at JR's earlier in the evening, before Kilroys, presumably to watch the BB game. After MS put CR to bed (this always strikes my funny bone to read it and say it that way) , she went to JR's again. She didn't leave until about 4:30. So given a more precise timeline you almost say he was with LS as much if not more than anyone else, or said another way, he was with her more than he was not. He knew her state enough to want her to stay, so he says.

 

[Jessicaleanne1992]

I think anyone who follows missing person cases will tell you this same thought has crossed their mind before. Then I ask myself this question. Which is more likely, organized sex traffickers randomly targeting young women or isolated incidents where somebody takes advantage of a vulnerable person. Then ask yourself, besides being young and attractive(which could describe A LOT of people), what do these missing persons have in common? Also, why would traffickers consistently target people who will be looked for with strong LE presence, when they are are A LOT of teens and young adults who may not have many options in life (runaways, orphans, etc..) and can be easily coerced or kidnapped and also wouldn't have loved ones constantly looking for them and also may not ever had a missing person report filed.

thanks so much for the reply. that thought really freaked me out, and your point of view has given me some peace of mind.

 

[Jupiter812]

In that excellent WSJ article that Berk links to, there is a quote by a guy who says the East coast gals in "skin-tight black pants" think they're "God's gift" and won't give him the time of day.

I've also read on a student comment board (I posted about this here recently) about bar ID checkers giving petite blondes a hard time because they don't like them and enjoy not letting them in.

I wonder how many guys share this attitude?

 

[OldSteve]

Alcohol, drugs, bars, fake ID's .... and this is present day college life?

I know I'm sounding really old, but where are we heading to with all with all of this...
guess this case sadly shows one answer... no fun being a parent today, that's for sure!

 

[Gabby66]

In that excellent WSJ article that Berk links to, there is a quote by a guy who says the East coast gals in "skin-tight black pants" think they're "God's gift" and won't give him the time of day.

I've also read on a student comment board (I posted about this here recently) about bar ID checkers giving petite blondes a hard time because they don't like them and enjoy not letting them in.

I wonder how many guys share this attitude?

I grew up in IN and lived in other parts of the Midwest and South. I now live in the East. I grew up thinking that NYers were rude, arrogant, and loud. I still think they can be loud but it's just their culture. I think they are somewhat more frank and sometimes "brash" compared to Midwesterners but they are FAR from rude and arrogant in general. I don't think it's about a culture. I think it's about coming from BIG money. Watch that show "My 16th Birthday" and you'll see that there are tons of spoiled rich kids out there - being Jewish or being from the East has nothing to do with it. I can tell you that the cost of living out here is VERY high compared to anywhere in the Midwest and you have to have some money to be able to afford a decent home. Therefore, there may be a higher concentration of rich people here. I'm sure that "Daddy's Rich Girl" can get most any guy she chooses, with the money in her back pocket. Therefore, she probably has her pick, which is why she may not give many the time of day. I'm not saying that's OK - it's sad - but I think it has little to do with where she came from (culture or location) and more to do with her money. I've met those types of girls in EVERY location where I've lived. I do think there are more of them out here, just b/c it costs more to live here.

 

[Auburn]

there was another thread where a couple of individuals posted things that were not only factually baseless but were also thoroughly debunked by LE.

the only person who benefitted from the subject matter of the baseless theory was the prime suspect in the missing person's disappearance.

so one should question the motivation of those who post these baseless theories.

YES, and I would like to know why one would cling to such a theory with such persistance. I mean,really...