IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[Skigirl]

Did anyone see the WSJ Europe I liked to upthread? Missing photo ad of Lauren. Wonder who it's directed to? JR? His parents? Who?

I couldn't see the ad either; would you please describe it? Was it in English? Is it possible that it was a dynamic ad that appears periodically, or do you think it was in the print edition?

I would imagine that her parents subscribe to the WSJ - I believe her father is in finance if memory serves. I grew up about twenty minutes north of where they live, and we always had it delivered to the house - very common in that neck of the woods.

I wonder if you place an ad in the WSJ if it just goes into all editions?

 

[Skigirl]

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/10/news.qp-0938617.sto

To the poster who asked about Hillel, this will help answer your Q. Rabbi Sue.

Thanks, Jupiter, I was the one that observed that Hillel didn't seem as involved as it had been and wondered if it could have had something to do the possibility that many of the POIs are also affiliated with Hillel, putting the organization in an awkward position.

The Rabbi's comments put that idea to rest, for sure!

 

[elmomom]

JR is the easy suspect for most people, he was the last to see her, his story is a bit shady (most think watching her turn the corner is impossible), he had opportunity, possible motive...

So, in the interest of not beating a dead horse, I am trying to think of ways to implicate someone else. That someone being JW.
So far, the alibi for JW seems to be his room mate or house mates, saying he watched the game, could not contact LS afterwards, then ended up going to bed at 2:30 and had no incoming phone calls or texts. It was also said that he drove his room mate to his 8:00AM class, and appeared normal at that time. Wow, 8:00 AM, that is early, especially in summer session on a Friday. I'll just bet hardly anyone was stirring at that time. I wonder what he did after he drove his room mate?

Here is a quote from http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...isappearance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p :

Later that morning, panic ensued. "Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone," Tamir said. "After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it."
That was about 3 p.m., Tamir said.

After reading this account of HT's tale over and over and over, the time line seems so weird to me. It could be bad writing. Interestingly, the one thing that stands out here that is odd is the statement by the reporter, "later that morning panic ensued." All the quotes from HT involve Friday afternoon, not morning. But, we do have another report (still looking for the reference) where CR is seen the next morning asking "hey have you seen a little blond girl".

So, I conclude that there was something going on the very next morning. And we have CR looking around the nearby vicinity - as if LS may have tumbled out of 5 North, set herself down and just passed out, and he expected to find her.
Maybe JW was up and about earlier than that, and he did find her?
We've all seen pictures of some of these friends passed out on lawns and front porches...

Also, we have all heard CR's attorney say that a couple of days later, there was another confrontation with CR. I know that very early on I had heard it involved JW and his father... but since then I haven't seen that repeated. But the point is, by mid afternoon at the latest, HT already had the story, and everyone in that camp knew that JR was the last person with LS, not CR. Why confront CR? Well, JW must have heard something to upset him about CR.

So, no, I don't think JW can possibly be dismissed. In fact, his alibi does nothing. He was up and about very early the next morning, and may have discovered a passed out LS... possibly making him the last person to see her.

 

[Jupiter812]

http://theforceofreason.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/about-that-purse-mr-wolff/#entry

Read the above nonsense and tell em if you still think zo and ab are behind clueful,chickjustin?

Dude really works herself into a frenzy.

 

[Jupiter812]

I couldn't see the ad either; would you please describe it? Was it in English? Is it possible that it was a dynamic ad that appears periodically, or do you think it was in the print edition?

I would imagine that her parents subscribe to the WSJ - I believe her father is in finance if memory serves. I grew up about twenty minutes north of where they live, and we always had it delivered to the house - very common in that neck of the woods.

I wonder if you place an ad in the WSJ if it just goes into all editions?

Thanks for that info, helpful to know. It's on the WSJ online weekend edition too, I just checked, so it's not as big a deal as I thought. They probably just picked an ad package that included whatever. The ad is large as real estate on Web pages go--about 1/6 of the page displayed on screen w/o scrolling. MISSING then a photo then "Support our effort" and a link to the new Web site. In English.

 

[Jupiter812]

JR is the easy suspect for most people, he was the last to see her, his story is a bit shady (most think watching her turn the corner is impossible), he had opportunity, possible motive...

So, in the interest of not beating a dead horse, I am trying to think of ways to implicate someone else. That someone being JW.
So far, the alibi for JW seems to be his room mate or house mates, saying he watched the game, could not contact LS afterwards, then ended up going to bed at 2:30 and had no incoming phone calls or texts. It was also said that he drove his room mate to his 8:00AM class, and appeared normal at that time. Wow, 8:00 AM, that is early, especially in summer session on a Friday. I'll just bet hardly anyone was stirring at that time. I wonder what he did after he drove his room mate?

Here is a quote from http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...isappearance?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|p :


After reading this account of HT's tale over and over and over, the time line seems so weird to me. It could be bad writing. Interestingly, the one thing that stands out here that is odd is the statement by the reporter, "later that morning panic ensued." All the quotes from HT involve Friday afternoon, not morning. But, we do have another report (still looking for the reference) where CR is seen the next morning asking "hey have you seen a little blond girl".

So, I conclude that there was something going on the very next morning. And we have CR looking around the nearby vicinity - as if LS may have tumbled out of 5 North, set herself down and just passed out, and he expected to find her.
Maybe JW was up and about earlier than that, and he did find her?
We've all seen pictures of some of these friends passed out on lawns and front porches...

Also, we have all heard CR's attorney say that a couple of days later, there was another confrontation with CR. I know that very early on I had heard it involved JW and his father... but since then I haven't seen that repeated. But the point is, by mid afternoon at the latest, HT already had the story, and everyone in that camp knew that JR was the last person with LS, not CR. Why confront CR? Well, JW must have heard something to upset him about CR.

So, no, I don't think JW can possibly be dismissed. In fact, his alibi does nothing. He was up and about very early the next morning, and may have discovered a passed out LS... possibly making him the last person to see her.

A few quick comments...JW lives so close to campus, it's large, yes, and a lot of kids are lazy and drive, but 8 a.m. really. I'd like to know what bldg the class was in. I guess JW could have been awake anyway, like all night. I don't buy the 2:30 bedtime and all that. Too neat and tidy. But he's not high on my list either. If he didn't do it, not sure why he'd lie about the timeline. OTOH, I CAN imagine him hanging back and not causing a scene because he was in a hurt-puppy-dog pace emotionally.

 

[imkeylime]

... So, I conclude that there was something going on the very next morning. And we have CR looking around the nearby vicinity - as if LS may have tumbled out of 5 North, set herself down and just passed out, and he expected to find her....

New to the forum, but I’ve been following the posts here for awhile. I've always found CR's question about seeing a little blonde girl odd, as if LS had tumbled down a rabbit hole or something. IMO, CR’s condition and reported memory loss could hold clues about LS’s state as well. I don’t totally discount CR’s loss of memory, but I believe it is/was more a result of alcohol and/or recreational/Rx drugs than being assaulted at Smallwood. Or perhaps someone slipped something in LS’s drink at the sports bar, and she shared that drink with CR. Regardless, if CR and LS were ingesting the same substances, LS could have found herself in a similar state at the worst possible time/circumstance. Many college students have found themselves in similar states, but luck was with them. I have a friend who entered the wrong townhouse in a “fuzzy” state and proceeded to tall asleep on a couch in said townhouse. The owners found him and called the police. I also remember going with a friend to the wrong house party and not realizing for a while that we recognized no one there. In retrospect, both of these situations could have ended extremely poorly.

My point, obviously, isn’t to rehash college memories that should be forgotten but to suggest that CR may indeed not clearly remember what happened or perhaps may have fuzzy recollections. Perhaps LS inadvertently ended up at an apartment complex in a different direction (The Hill?) or in a less desirable part of town? I personally tend to believe CR’s “nonstory” more than JR’s story. Perhaps she went an opposite way from what JR described, even at a different time. Perhaps JR called DR at 4:15 to see if she had made it home. Perhaps JR feels responsible for giving her something and then NOT keeping her from leaving and has thus created a narrative to keep the police, the public, or even himself satisfied. Or maybe the narrative is more ominous: Perhaps she ended up crashed like CR but didn’t awaken. Sadly, none of the above speculations sheds light on where she is now, of course. It's almost like she DID tumble down a rabbit hole.

 

[ela_ss teacher]

This has always bothered me, too -- as a student, I would no sooner have eaten off the floor of a bar than walk around my big-ten college town with no shoes -- no matter what type of activity was on the evening's agenda.
.

<snipped>
As far as the shoes/phone, this is what I ENVISION (total speculation of course) :
Whenever I've gone to the beach, pool, or anywhere else I may end up taking off my shoes, I usually put my cell IN my shoes to protect it from sand, water, etc. My opinion is that Lauren leaving without these items may not have been as unusual/sinister/telling as it initially sounds. She may have put the phone IN the shoes, got drunk (speculation of course) and took off with her bar friend- feeling no pain. I know that I'm more likely to forget my phone when I'm WITH the person/people I'd typically call, only to remember later when I needed it.

My gut says that the goings on at the bar is PROBABLY not much of a clue to what happened to Lauren.

 

[sv614]

Excuse me but you are the one that used HT comment to support your point of view.If you consider her to be unreliable perhaps you should not.But hey we could go back and forth on this all day long and accomplish nothing.My point in my original comment is You,me and many other posters have advanced theories on less than the facts.Many times on mere speculation and that has been okay.Suddenly this one poster comes along with a POV that people do not seam to like and all of a sudden the rules change.Now suddenly he has to justify his position with "facts" something that has not been required of anyone else.Not content with holding him or her to this higher standard they then want to accuse him of stereotyping her because she is Jewish.Somehow I get the feeling that these same people would not accuse you of stereotyping her because she is a " 20 year old, wealthy Northeastern student at a midwest Big Ten school".

You ARE stereotyping her because she is Jewish. That's what this thing with Israel is based on. *I* am Jewish and I am offended.

LS and I are of the same demographic.

 

[sv614]

We know whatever activity and whoever is on the 2:51AM video has not been released in detail. The attorney did say CR and LS are on the video, correct? ...Although LE won't confirm anything about the video except LS is on it and the time.

Has there been anything definitive from LE in talking about the timeline, or even hearsay from HT (or any attorneys) stating whether MB/CR actually saw/knows LS left their room and went straight to JR's? ...Or is it that they say she left their place and only know she ended up at JR's... eventually.... allegedly... based on what JR has said? Is it just assumed she allegedly went straight from CR/MB's apartment to JR's?

And has there been anything (rumor/hearsay/etc) about what JR says he and LS were doing in that period of time?

I think they have to know more than that because CR's attorney said there was another altercation after LS left CR/MB apartment.

 

[akh]

When you look at JW as a possible suspect, knowing how solid his alibi is would be important (He'd have motive because the circumstances could easily lead to a jealous rage but there's the question if he had opportunity).

I'd also like to know what caused him to ramp up the concern as soon as he did that next day? Once he knew the cellphone was left behind at Kilroy's that would've explained her not answering so that had to throw some cold water on worrying about why she wouldn't answer her phone.

The next question I'd have for him is "How did you decide she hadn't been back to the apartment and left already when you went there to look for her and she wasn't there?"

Not only would her staying somewhere else for the evening have been a possibility, but by the time JW is searching the apartment she could've been there, slept, and left already. IIRC HT has said she didn't know if LS came home that night or not.

I think there has to be something, maybe it's known to LE, that caused this to escalate as soon as it did with JW.

I could never cross JW off the list without the above answers.

 

[bessie]

You ARE stereotyping her because she is Jewish. That's what this thing with Israel is based on. *I* am Jewish and I am offended.

LS and I are of the same demographic.

It was also suggested that LS might've come to New Orleans because she worked here with Habitat for Humanity a few years back. For some reason, that part of the theory was overlooked. No one objected to the notion about New Orleans, only that she might've gone to Israel. Thus, it became "this thing with Israel".

I strongly suggest we drop this subject.

 

[Skigirl]

It was also suggested that LS might've come to New Orleans because she worked here with Habitat for Humanity a few years back. For some reason, that part of the theory was overlooked. No one objected to the notion about New Orleans, only that she might've gone to Israel. Thus, it became "this thing with Israel".

I strongly suggest we drop this subject.

FWIW, I'll go on the record opining that she's unlikely to be in New Orleans :innocent:

 

[TonyGatto]

When you look at JW as a possible suspect, knowing how solid his alibi is would be important (He'd have motive because the circumstances could easily lead to a jealous rage but there's the question if he had opportunity).

I'd also like to know what caused him to ramp up the concern as soon as he did that next day? Once he knew the cellphone was left behind at Kilroy's that would've explained her not answering so that had to throw some cold water on worrying about why she wouldn't answer her phone.

The next question I'd have for him is "How did you decide she hadn't been back to the apartment and left already when you went there to look for her and she wasn't there?"

Not only would her staying somewhere else for the evening have been a possibility, but by the time JW is searching the apartment she could've been there, slept, and left already. IIRC HT has said she didn't know if LS came home that night or not.

I think there has to be something, maybe it's known to LE, that caused this to escalate as soon as it did with JW.

I could never cross JW off the list without the above answers.

Why then do you think police at a briefing said he was cooperating, when they won't say the same of others?

 

[Missing Budweiser]

I guarantee that she is neither in Israel or New Orleans. Let's take bessie's advice and drop it.

 

[TonyGatto]

Correct.

But if she did walk on the gravel it's not as bad as most people think. Cars have driven over it and flattened it a fair amount. And she might not have been feeling much pain anyway.

I know what you're saying, but that's a lot of walking in a lot of places with no shoes. The walk from Kilroy's to Smallwood -- before you get to college Av -- is treacherous -- lots of broken pavement, concrete, then grass patches, debris, broken bottles. I guess she figured she just had get to her apartment. But then heading up to 11th st area -- through the alley -- maybe on the gravel -- it's a lot of walking in weird places without shoes. Think about it -- I know sometimes I walk out of my house (on an urban street) I kinda watch where I'm goin just to make sure I don't step on something. THis all tells me she was not feeling any pain.

 

[sv614]

It was also suggested that LS might've come to New Orleans because she worked here with Habitat for Humanity a few years back. For some reason, that part of the theory was overlooked. No one objected to the notion about New Orleans, only that she might've gone to Israel. Thus, it became "this thing with Israel".

I strongly suggest we drop this subject.

Ok, that is fair.

The last thing I will say is that what set me off was the painting of Kibbutzim as "rural communes" and I got touchy about it.

I will drop it now, promise. You're right about the N.O. point.

 

[akh]

Why then do you think police at a briefing said he was cooperating, when they won't say the same of others?

I'm not saying he's the #1 suspect or even should be. I'm just saying that I personally couldn't rule him out simply because there are questions that haven't been answered. At least not answers I'm privy to. LE might have those answers.

I lose track of who the police say are cooperating and who are not. At one point I thought the police said everyone was cooperating. ...But then we know that isn't exactly true now. At least they aren't cooperating in ways that LE (or parents) would call cooperating. Their attorneys might differ. I don't know.

And for all I know, JW could be 'cooperating' by telling lies about a certain period of time... and truthful about the rest... And repeating that any time they ask.

I'm sure if I had a definitive answer to what was on the 2:51AM video (who is there, actions, LS's apparent level of sobriety, same for CR, etc), as well as the absolute certainty one way or the other on the 3:38AM sighting, I'd have a much better focus on a theory.

I'd give just as much weight right now to JR as JW simply because there's so little confirmed info to go on... let alone unconfirmed info that at least seems plausible.

 

[sv614]

I'm not saying he's the #1 suspect or even should be. I'm just saying that I personally couldn't rule him out simply because there are questions that haven't been answered. At least not answers I'm privy to. LE might have those answers.

I lose track of who the police say are cooperating and who are not. At one point I thought the police said everyone was cooperating. ...But then we know that isn't exactly true now. At least they aren't cooperating in ways that LE (or parents) would call cooperating. Their attorneys might differ. I don't know.

And for all I know, JW could be 'cooperating' by telling lies about a certain period of time... and truthful about the rest... And repeating that any time they ask.

I'm sure if I had a definitive answer to what was on the 2:51AM video (who is there, actions, LS's apparent level of sobriety, same for CR, etc), as well as the absolute certainty one way or the other on the 3:38AM sighting, I'd have a much better focus on a theory.

I'd give just as much weight right now to JR as JW simply because there's so little confirmed info to go on... let alone unconfirmed info that at least seems plausible.

From my understanding the police have never named, cleared, or commented on anyone unless it was in direct response to a question during a press conference.

In JW's case, someone asked if he is a POI and Qualters answered with "Certainly" but also said he was "Cooperative".

 

[Johneverett]

JMHO - we will probably never know if LE was on top of this case or not. Thank you Skigirl for transcribing those press conferences. A lot of words to say what, in the end, is very little. I don't know if it's good press management or just luck. It seems like they can cover up any inadequacies by saying they couldn't release info or keeping things quiet while they are investigating. We may never know how early it was when they officially asked for videos, statements, did searches, called in the dogs and what kind of dogs they were and where they went.

I've read in different places that the searchers might not have been such a good idea, possibly trampling evidence and contaminating the scene. While the family and the community may have felt better feeling that everyone was pitching together, maybe it was not the best move. What do you more experienced WSers think about that?

They sure have managed to keep the story alive. You know, I still can't find anything out about Shaneice Nicholson, the woman whose body was found in Falls Creek last weekend. Nothing but her name and the mention of a tattoo. How sad is that?

Oh, and that CR comment about has anyone seen a little blond girl. How do you all read that? At first, I thought he was just coming up groggy from his night of partying and was kind of bragging that he had been out with her the night before. I didn't get the sense that when he said that (the morning after) that he already knew she was missing. But is that what most of you think he was getting at?

If I were the mother of LS, I think I might get my husband to go with me to visit the parents of the guys and have some heart-to-heart conversations. Bloomington isn't yielding much right now (that anyone is releasing) so they could leave for a few days.

Finally, does anyone know for sure who actually filed the Missing Persons report? The two friends, the bf, or the parents? Did LE start looking right away or did they wait till the parents flew in? Just curious when they started the ball rolling. Sorry so long - I only post sporadically.