IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[Carmen101]

In the HT article on concussions, Dr. Haddad defines two types-- "retrograde amnesia, which involves losing memory of the time period leading up to a head injury; and anterograde amnesia, which involves losing memory of the events that occur after an injury."

IIRC, Carl Salzmann, CR's memory loss started 15 minutes before the altercation and lasted the rest of the night, so it sounds as if alcohol and or drugs may have played a part in his amnesia.

Can one have both types of amnesia at once?

Dr. Haddad says, "Typically, the events that occurred before — retrograde amnesia — are remembered better than those that occurred after — anterograde amnesia. The injury itself may never be remembered.”

The article states, "Haddad said from his experience, if a patient is going to remember the events leading up to a head injury but not the injury itself, he or she will do so within the first few weeks of the injury — rarely later than that."

Has LE interviewed CR again to see if he has remembered the events prior to the punch?

One puzzling part of the article is that Dr. Haddad talks about losing consciousness, as if the reporter knows CR lost consciousness and is asking how hard a punch it would take to knock him out.

So, the timeline states that CR and LS were at Smallwood for about 10 minutes. They walk in the building, maybe wait for the elevator, take it to the 5th floor, he gets punched, maybe loses consciousness, comes to and they leave.

There is then some "activity" in the alley and one rumor has it that LS was seen arguing with 3 men in the alley. Did ZO leave SW first? Did he have others with him?

The other thing I don't get is that LS sees her friend get punched, goes with him to 5 North, then is ready to party more. Was she not traumatized by seeing her friend get punched?

 

[Carmen101]

Apparently, it is common knowledge in Bloomington among college-age kids that Smallwood is the place to get drugs.

 

[Walker]

That speculation is almost inappropriate. HT is a 20 year old girl whose roomate disappeared. Calling her a potential "POI" is ridiculous.

A POI (Person of Interest) is not a suspect. They can also be potential witnesses.

 

[Frogzilla]

Just curious...so, in Northsider's scenario where LS ends up ODing at a DD's place, how does her losing her purse/key thing (presumably holding any $$ she had with her) figure in? I mean if she was going from JRs to the DDs wouldn't she think that she would need $? And hadn't she already lost her purse/keys by then (since AA found them around 3am)? I guess some DDs who are familiar with their clients probably give them drugs and get payment later but it seems like at the point that she was supposedly heading to the dds, it would at least occur to her that she did not have any $ with her to make a transaction.

Any thoughts from northsider or anyone else about how the loss of her purse fits into the scenario about going from JRs to the dds and oding?

Thanks in advance.

If true that LS was willing to go to a DD house to get drugs alone at 430AM with no money and after a night of partying, i would assume that this wouldn't of been her first time doing something like that. LS roommates have stated that this behavior was not like her, but a poster here on WS hears from locals that LS is a big time party girl, that leaves A LOT of middle ground to make assumptions. What conclusions would you draw if you were told a petite, attractive 20 year old woman was going to a drug dealers place alone at 430Am without any money? Maybe she would like to be fronted some drugs, but would the DD in that situation? Maybe he had a different arrangement in mind.
Also, if ZO is this alleged DD, and ZO also punched CR, which caused CR and LS to flee from smallwood, why would LS go there alone later on in the evening?

 

[mamamia54]

I'm just going to say this, then drop the subject and sit back and read. LE needs to search Terre Haute landfill and Pimento landfill. Before they do that, they need to search a two mile radius around this area of route 37.

They need to find Lauren before total decomp happens if it hasn't yet, and I'm not so sure that it hasn't already happened with the degree of heat that the country is seeing.

 

[jennyb629]

If true that LS was willing to go to a DD house to get drugs alone at 430AM with no money and after a night of partying, i would assume that this wouldn't of been her first time doing something like that. LS roommates have stated that this behavior was not like her, but a poster here on WS hears from locals that LS is a big time party girl, that leaves A LOT of middle ground to make assumptions. What conclusions would you draw if you were told a petite, attractive 20 year old woman was going to a drug dealers place alone at 430Am without any money? Maybe she would like to be fronted some drugs, but would the DD in that situation? Maybe he had a different arrangement in mind.
Also, if ZO is this alleged DD, and ZO also punched CR, which caused CR and LS to flee from smallwood, why would LS go there alone later on in the evening?

On second thought, I guess even if it seems logical to me that she would want/need to have $ in order to go to the DDs' and also that she wouldn't want to go there alone considering the fight that had occurred/her condition/without phone/shoes, etc. and so late at night/early morning...logic doesn't necessarily factor in to the decisions that were being made at that point. Also, logic isn't necessarily a factor for someone who is trying to secure drugs anyway...that's all they're thinking about-getting the drugs, not do I have any $, is it safe, is it too late, am I too messed up, etc. If the rumors that she was big into drugs are true then it wouldn't be unlikely to assume she would go to the DDs house under the circumstances. It was just one other thing I thought of...maybe she went to the DDs and subsequently ODed much earlier than we think, perhaps right after she lost her purse/key thing, before she realized she was missing it. Perhaps she was asking for drugs and the dd got upset because she didn't have $ and then something happened? Just trying to think of all possible scenarios here...

 

[cspring]

I was thinking about the heat making decomp worse too yes mama u r right. WHY havent they? WHY WHY WHY!!!!

 

[Walker]

HT was not the only roommate of LS. The other roommates made one TV appearance and kept it very simple. HT on the other hand, did not just say she is my friend and I miss her, she put a spin on every detail that she could. HT really is the bridge between these different group of friends, so maybe she felt compelled to give her version of events and also the version of events given to her by these friends who hung out with different groups of people. Maybe she was naive and thought she was helping, but her comments have an odd feel to it, like she is pushing some type of agenda. One example is during a TV interview, she is asked if she is concerned that some of her friends will not talk to her about LS, she says it is not concerning, but later in the same reply she says it was probably a random person who took LS. So people that may know what happened to LS won't talk to her, but she would still rather think a boogeyman took LS.

HT says that the crime may have been "random." That is, a stranger abduction, which is certainly possible.

This case has few facts, but huge amounts of gossip.

Almost as if one group is aggressively trying to smear the reputation of another group; some type of group conflict seems to underly the discussion of the case.

The Morgan Harrington case also had gossip, but the tone was less bitter.

 

[hoosierleigh]

In the HT article on concussions, Dr. Haddad defines two types-- "retrograde amnesia, which involves losing memory of the time period leading up to a head injury; and anterograde amnesia, which involves losing memory of the events that occur after an injury."

IIRC, Carl Salzmann, CR's memory loss started 15 minutes before the altercation and lasted the rest of the night, so it sounds as if alcohol and or drugs may have played a part in his amnesia.

Can one have both types of amnesia at once?

Dr. Haddad says, "Typically, the events that occurred before — retrograde amnesia — are remembered better than those that occurred after — anterograde amnesia. The injury itself may never be remembered.”

The article states, "Haddad said from his experience, if a patient is going to remember the events leading up to a head injury but not the injury itself, he or she will do so within the first few weeks of the injury — rarely later than that."

Has LE interviewed CR again to see if he has remembered the events prior to the punch?

One puzzling part of the article is that Dr. Haddad talks about losing consciousness, as if the reporter knows CR lost consciousness and is asking how hard a punch it would take to knock him out.

So, the timeline states that CR and LS were at Smallwood for about 10 minutes. They walk in the building, maybe wait for the elevator, take it to the 5th floor, he gets punched, maybe loses consciousness, comes to and they leave.

There is then some "activity" in the alley and one rumor has it that LS was seen arguing with 3 men in the alley. Did ZO leave SW first? Did he have others with him?

The other thing I don't get is that LS sees her friend get punched, goes with him to 5 North, then is ready to party more. Was she not traumatized by seeing her friend get punched?

Honestly, I don't think the punch has anything to do with not remembering. I've blacked out lots of times with no memory on alcohol without getting beat up, and when you throw in the Xanax on top of it, it's no shock he doesn't remember anything. He probably doesn't even remember getting into the fight or if he does, it's a blur.

 

[hoosierleigh]

<snip>
The other thing I don't get is that LS sees her friend get punched, goes with him to 5 North, then is ready to party more. Was she not traumatized by seeing her friend get punched?

Doubtful. Again - back in my crazy college days, fights didn't happen on the regular, but they did happen, and it didn't really stop anyone from continuing to party. It's a fairly common occurrence especially with the younger guys.

 

[butterfly19]

<modsnip>They are getting so much pressure from FB groups to search the landfills and this was their way of getting the word out that there was no reason to search the landfills without having to give us anymore info.
The second thing that has always bothered me is the fact that JW's father was in town so quickly. I believe he was here even before the Spierers. I believe, that it was said, that there was a confrontation at CR's place the next day and JW and his dad were involved. I wonder what the time was when JW notified his dad that LS was missing. I have tried to place myself in this scenario and if it was my son calling and said he couldn't find his girlfriend and she had been missing for 12 hours, I just don't see myself jumping in the car and driving 12 hours. She could have been out looking for her phone or still asleep at another location. It just seems odd to me that JW's dad acted so quickly when there was so little info.
And the last thing that truly bothers me is the fact that JW was supposed to meet up with LS that night, and when he didn't hear from her, he just went to bed. Really???

 

[Carmen101]

Honestly, I don't think the punch has anything to do with not remembering. I've blacked out lots of times with no memory on alcohol without getting beat up, and when you throw in the Xanax on top of it, it's no shock he doesn't remember anything. He probably doesn't even remember getting into the fight or if he does, it's a blur.

I agree that the punch might not be solely responsible for the blackout/concussion. But if memory comes back, maybe LE should check to see if CR remembers any more now than he did right after the incident.
Maybe he can explain the shoes and phone left at the bar or some other salient information. Wouldn't hurt to check.

 

[Carmen101]

Word in Bloomington is that LS was a huge partier and often cheated on her boyfriend. Apparently, theirs was a rocky relationship. Seems to me that she was moving on. Didn't someone say she had unfriended him on Facebook a couple of days before she disappeared?

 

[Jupiter812]

HT says that the crime may have been "random." That is, a stranger abduction, which is certainly possible.

This case has few facts, but huge amounts of gossip.

Almost as if one group is aggressively trying to smear the reputation of another group; some type of group conflict seems to underly the discussion of the case.

The Morgan Harrington case also had gossip, but the tone was less bitter.

I think Frogzilla's take on HT that you quoted (I don't know how to include both quotes) is spot on and your take on the two factions is true too. There also seems to be an interface where the two groups meld into murkiness. Maybe that is the drug component.

 

[bessie]

It is against the rules to speculate about the identity of a fellow member.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

<modsnip>They are getting so much pressure from FB groups to search the landfills and this was their way of getting the word out that there was no reason to search the landfills without having to give us anymore info.

Who thinks there is no reason to search the landfills?

also what is the "way" you refer to regarding getting the word out? How was the word gotten out? tia

 

[bx2]

Word in Bloomington is that LS was a huge partier and often cheated on her boyfriend. Apparently, theirs was a rocky relationship. Seems to me that she was moving on. Didn't someone say she had unfriended him on Facebook a couple of days before she disappeared?

This seems to be skirting the edge of even rumor. Huge partier, okay, there's been slight elusion to that. Often cheating on her boyfriend though?? What little we've heard from her friends has flown directly in the face of that claim.

 

[TonyGatto]

It is against the rules to speculate about the identity of a fellow member.

People speculate about my identity all the time and they're always right.

 

[Frogzilla]

This seems to be skirting the edge of even rumor. Huge partier, okay, there's been slight elusion to that. Often cheating on her boyfriend though?? What little we've heard from her friends has flown directly in the face of that claim.

LOL yes, always that fine line in between speculating and stretching rumors. :websleuther:

 

[cspring]

People speculate about my identity all the time and they're always right.

Lol. Missed u the last few days Mr. Gatto.