IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #21

[sv614]

Also JRNTT makes an interesting observation.

June 16 - landfill search request
June 17 - fire in Martinsville
June 19 - scheduled search near Martinsville

 

[Jupiter812]

I think this is purely speculative? You have every right to disagree with me, but I think this is trying to come up with rational reasons why the Spieriers were asking them not to protest the BPD. I hear the words "I think" in there...

Here we go again ...

My interest is on the comment made by the people behind the initials--the part about why they may not want people to protest I don't care about. Two different points. And as I mentioned the other night, there was another related comment by another person. The names of these people are not those who I would characterize as total rampant speculators.

 

[Jupiter812]

I hope we'll hear from Tony soon - I would think he's managed to pull some sources together throughout his time investigating and reporting on this case.

If anyone out there - Jupiter? - has the specific comment thread from Facebook referring to the potential deal between prosecutors, lawyers, and POI it would be great if you could post the link.

There were two comments. I looked for the second one at the same time I found this one but it was blinding and too time consuming.

Abbey, here is one of the posts from the LS:CS FB grouop:

[poster's initials MM] JMO- After reading the post from [poster's initials CR] about Lauren's parents not wanting pressure on BPD and wanting the prosecutor to work with them, I believe the police know what happened. I believe Lauren OD and the boy or boys panicked and hid her body. I think the prosecuter and lawyers are working on a deal and Lauren's parents are hoping the prosecutor will go along with the terms so they can take Lauren home.

 

[elmomom]

Is there any reason a judge would not issue a SW for the landfill? :waitasec: I wouldn't think it required a heavy burden of proof to do that. If it takes much more than what we already knew, that would really upset me.

 

[cluciano63]

Is there any reason a judge would not issue a SW for the landfill? :waitasec: I wouldn't think it required a heavy burden of proof to do that. If it takes much more than what we already knew, that would really upset me.

I can't imagine a judge not signing off on that request. What reason could he possibly have? He can't be worrying about budgets of LE, can he?

 

[Walker]

Incidentally, I heard that NY state (Lauren's home state) has just recently passed a law that would immunize people from drug or other charges when calling 911 for a person who has overdosed. I hope that The Good Samaritan Law becomes more widespread.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/29/new-york-state-passes-good-samaritan-law-to-fight-overdose/

Excellent news.

While drug abuse and distribution is certainly deplorable conduct, this activity does not constitute murder and should not be prosecuted as such. The previous legal situation only encouraged people to ignore the situation, abandon the dying victim or try to use incorrect procedures to revive them.

Instead of the "drug wars" and overly stringent laws, we need to educate people away from substance abuse. Do young people understand the drugs essentially work by interfering with their brain chemistry, and how much damage that might do to their mental and physical health?

Drugs need to be demystified: the music industry glamorizes the drug experience, but young people need to hear the results of actual drug abuse in the most clinical terms.


The above linked article should be required reading for all high school and college students.

People who have taken too many of the wrong opioids can look as if they're asleep, except they won't respond to painful stimuli or noise and may have interrupted or slowed breathing. Eventually, they may stop breathing altogether and show signs of oxygen deprivation, turning blue.
The most deadly mistake friends or family can make is to let overdosers “sleep it off.”

If a person seems to have over-dosed, call 911 immediately.

For those who want to take the next step [after trying naloxone, if available], Stancliff says the priority is to to get the victim breathing again. Although the American Heart Association is now promoting chest-compression or “hands only” CPR, this is not effective in saving overdose victims. “There's no oxygen left,” Stancliff says, “You need to get that person to have oxygen.” That means pushing air into the lungs with traditional CPR—which includes rescue breaths as well as chest compressions.

 

[Walker]

I think this is purely speculative? You have every right to disagree with me, but I think this is trying to come up with rational reasons why the Spieriers were asking them not to protest the BPD. I hear the words "I think" in there...

In a missing person case, public protests are inappropriate. LE has access to a huge amount of information which we simply don't have. We should allow them to use their professional judgment. One obvious flaw in the "dumpster theory" is that the local area is surrounded by rural lands which would probably make a better place to hide a body.

 

[Walker]

Also JRNTT makes an interesting observation.

June 16 - landfill search request
June 17 - fire in Martinsville
June 19 - scheduled search near Martinsville

This case parallels the Morgan Harrington case in many ways.

In a house, near Anchorage Farm (where MH's body was discovered), a fire had also occurred, just a few days before her body was found in a field by a farmer inspecting his fences.

 

[Soul125]

http://www.wsbt.com/news/wxin-laure...-lauren-spierer-case-20110802,0,2615842.story

 

[jjenny]

In a missing person case, public protests are inappropriate. LE has access to a huge amount of information which we simply don't have. We should allow them to use their professional judgment. One obvious flaw in the "dumpster theory" is that the local area is surrounded by rural lands which would probably make a better place to hide a body.

One has to get to that rural area, which increases probability of getting caught (especially considering there are cameras in a lot of places). Whereas with landfill, if one knows when garbage is emptied, one can dump a body quickly and the body is very hard to find once it gets to the landfill.

 

[sv614]

Is there ANY information whatsoever about JRs actions or whereabouts such as:

- on what date and at what time did he leave Bloomington (ie how soon after 4am on Friday June 3)
- have there been any reports whatsoever on his movements literally between THEN and NOW? Anything? (besides the speculation as to what country he may or may not be in)

There were reports of someone running into CR the next day, MB and DR stuck around, JW even was accounting for at least for the first few days of the investigation.

This guy manages to disappear without a trace (in fact his Houdini-like skills at that are kind of curious) yet with time to hire a bananas atty or am I missing something?

 

[sv614]

Just a thought - I wonder if the dumpsters in the Martinsville area go to that landfill?

 

[PaulR]

OR maybe BPD has been talking to the POI's lawyers, telling them that the landfill is about to be searched and the POI who talks first will get a deal (you know, like Law & Order :winko:.)

Why?

If a POI threw the body in the trash, then the police will have a lot more leverage against them once the body is found. The POI won't be able to offer much other than a confession. (They won't know where the body is 'buried' at the landfill, for instance.) A confession is worth something but it's not solid evidence.

If the POI discarded the body elsewhere, the POI will not care at all about the landfill search and probably feel like they got away with it since the police would be so far off the scent.

 

[Darcyline]

I am curious about JR as well. All I have heard is speculation that has him leaving immediately (like, the morning she went missing) to a week after and then him being anywhere from Michigan to Israel and places in between. I know it isn't our right to know, but I feel like I know everything about CR, JW, and even a few of the other POIs. Does JR even exist lol?

 

[Walker]

One has to get to that rural area, which increases probability of getting caught (especially considering there are cameras in a lot of places). Whereas with landfill, if one knows when garbage is emptied, one can dump a body quickly and the body is very hard to find once it gets to the landfill.

That's true, but the landfill is still a defined location, which may mean that the body can be found eventually. A body left in an open field in an area like Anchorage Farm, for example, rapidly decomposes, and apparently no one had visited that particular area of the farm for several months. Even those who may have traveled through, hikers, hunters & bicyclists, apparently did not find the body. Of course, people disposing of the body would need to be familiar with an area such as AF, or at least know someone who was.

 

[elmomom]

I am curious about JR as well. All I have heard is speculation that has him leaving immediately (like, the morning she went missing) to a week after and then him being anywhere from Michigan to Israel and places in between. I know it isn't our right to know, but I feel like I know everything about CR, JW, and even a few of the other POIs. Does JR even exist lol?

The rumors I've heard (and they are rumors) is that he was there for at least a few days, that he was in his apt the first time LE searched it, that he talked to Mr Spierer and that he went to Israel on a pre-planned trip over the summer. And that Barcelona is on his FB page only because he was there first semester last year.
I do not endorse this info, I am simply stating what I have heard. Mainly from PT threads. You can still find the early threads if you look.

 

[Pedrosmom]

Am I wrong, or didn't CRs lawyer say that he watched his law firm's surveillance video around the time that JR said she would be walking in front of it, and she was never seen?

Can anyone shed some light on that, as I may be wrong, and certainly don't know what that implies. Such as, could she have taken another route? Based on what I remember, it seemed like this lawyer was suggesting that she would have had to have passed in front of his cameras if what JR was stating was true.

Any thoughts/additions/clarifications? Thanks!

And thanks to all for letting me jump into the discussion. A lot of good thoughts here!

Perhaps their walk is interrupted by the "activity" that LE speaks of. CR is wasted and continues on home while the other person or persons in the video are now with Lauren. MOO that's why JW is so close on LE's radar.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I am sure if DR is involved the police know about it. SW has cameras everywhere so I am sure LE knows exactly what time DR came home.

Ironically how Smallwood fought so hard to retain the videos. Seems there may have been some comings and goings of POIs. Why would Smallwood want to protect them? Losing rent on an apartment of a murderer or a suspect in a murder would be something one would think a management company would gladly boot out. So many strange things but forcing LE to break down the door to the security room to look at tapes is awful strange.

 

[Pedrosmom]

He looked at that tape for more than an instant. I'm certain that that tape was scoured, and I'm sure that he was part of it. It was his tape, and it could help his client.

I think her not being on that tape is extremely useful to LE in narrowing things down, and questioning certain POIs. If there is one block between where JR claims to have last seen her and the location of this video, then what happened to her in this ONE block? Did she change her route? Why would she do that if she knew that JR was watching her for safety purposes? ONE BLOCK. Did she ever leave JRs (on foot?) IDK, just throwing it all out there for thoughts.

Stranger abduction in this scenario, if it is factual, would seem highly unlikely, IMO. Abducted in a matter of moments from when a witness stopped watching you, and just before approaching a surveillance camera. It is certainly possible, tho, but would be an extreme case of being in the exact wrong spot at just the wrong time.

That all depends on the time CR sees himself on the video. Seems to me it would be on his way back to 5 North and not at 4:30 when JR says LS left. LE confirms that there is no sighting of LS on video apparently walking in the direction JR seems to think. In fact, the last sighting of LS on video was the activity at around 3AM. If CR is alone, what time was that at? Did LS even make it to the 5 North townhomes? Sounds to me from LE confirming last sighting exiting the alley and person or persons there, then CR caught on tape on the sidewalk in front of attys office, I can only deduce that CR sighting is around or after the time LS "activity" is caught on tape - and not with CR, whom she originally set off to 5 North with. If CR is on tape long after the 3AM activity, then he's questionable. But why publicize a tape that gets your client off the hook if it in fact makes him more culpable?

 

[Pedrosmom]

I don't think his lawyer was lying, nor do I think he would (he is an officer of the court). And in fact I think he made a point of saying that LE came to ask for the tape before CR was his client, and they just checked the immediate time frame that she should have been seen (in his presence).

Also, when asked he claims he does not believe that JR (or CR or MB) were involved in LS's disappearance FWIW.

That would make total sense if LS never made it to 5 North. But WHY would JR place himself with Lauren if he didn't have to. That brings me back to my original theory that JR was the pasty, throw the scent toward JR and LE will focus on JR. But there's no evidence against JR and he would get off. Who is JR trying to protect and why? Did the boyfriend find LS in a near death condition, those drugs compliments of the 5 North gang and if you cover for me, I'll cover for you? IMO, she never entered 5 North (aside from earlier in the night when she was there with DR and HT). She met her demise at 3AM per the video. CR takes off because he already got the snot kicked out of him, which puts him on the sidewalk and not the alley - where she is met by someone else, or maybe two. JW being one (out looking for his girlfriend) with maybe someone else... then they hide the body for the night. JW gets up and drives his roommate to class, then he takes off for a couple hours and disposes of LS when he can blend in with other cars and people out at 8AM. Much harder to find his car on video at 8AM than at 3AM. My gut tells me that the Spierers are speaking to JW to talk. Maybe she was too far gone to be saved by the time he got to her, or maybe he was raging mad that she was with CR, heading toward CR's apartment. JMO but that attorney video makes a lot of sense. The atty statement that excludes the CR, JR, MB crowd also makes sense as LE states the activity was at 3AM. Makes sense that she never even entered those townhomes. The 5 North crowd has some culpability in supplying the goods that put her in the condition she was in, but I don't believe they had anything to do with hiding the body.

I find it so strange that while he is looking for his girlfriend, he drives his roommate to class. My answer to that would be walk your own *advertiser censored**, I have some bigger problems. But it was an excuse to take out the car - in case it was seen on video. I have no doubt it was. Let's hope he wasn't smart enough to leave the cell phones (his and LS's) behind or LE has got the pings. Why aren't those pings leading to anything? Because they're all coming from the same tower. She is/was close.

My theory. My opinion. We are all entitled to one. Have at it.