IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[elmorejames]

I also thought about your first question but how would they know this as a fact? If someone else had used Lauren's phone, how would they know that it couldn't have been her, unless it was used after the 3:00am sighting in the alley? Thinking about this now.

JW could have woken up to a text from LS and realized from the looks of the text that it wasn't her texting him. Anyone can tell if a text comes across from a certain contact, let's say a parent and the wording doesn't fit the parents typical demeanor. This can strike someone as odd.. Especially if this text came post 3am and she reportedly didn't have her phone. Perhaps this is what CS could have been referring to.

 

[Jupiter812]

Well then we know she didn't do that because she wasn't captured on camera. This is consistent with my theory that CR carried her over the gravel (isn't his apt closer to the alley than the sidewalk?), and she lost her keys in the process - they didn't have to be lost right by the railing to have been placed there later - which were reportedly found just a few minutes later.

I've read a few doors down and two doors down. Either way it wouldn't make much diff unless his is on the very end.

"Your" theory, really?

Why would she be avoiding a camera?

I didn't say she was nor was I implying she was.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I've read a few doors down and two doors down. Either way it wouldn't make much diff unless his is on the very end.

"Your" theory, really?


I didn't say she was nor was I implying she was.

So why else would she turn around, as you said?

And I do think it makes a difference where CR lives - as long as he isn't on the West end of 5N (as JR is, I understand), it's a quicker route to his place via the alley rather than the sidewalk.

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't recall ever reading that JW called the bar or that it was as early as 11:30 -- but I'd be interested in an article.

Here is an article that quotes JW's friend. Will see if I can find the 11:30 reference.

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,3710472.story

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Here is an article that quotes JW's friend. Will see if I can find the 11:30 reference.

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,3710472.story

My understanding is that JW drove his roommate to a noon class. Is that the source of your 11:30? If he had contacted the bar that early, why would he have waited until after 2 to contact HT?

 

[Jupiter812]

So why else would she turn around, as you said?

And I do think it makes a difference where CR lives - as long as he isn't on the West end of 5N (as JR is, I understand), it's a quicker route to his place via the alley rather than the sidewalk.

I didn't understand your question about turning around. Now I do. When I said "back to the gravel lot she goes" I meant in my thought bubble!!

 

[Jupiter812]

My understanding is that JW drove his roommate to a noon class. Is that the source of your 11:30? If he had contacted the bar that early, why would he have waited until after 2 to contact HT?

No. I thought it was an 8 a.m. class.

 

[bx2]

No. I thought it was an 8 a.m. class.

The 8am time gets taken out of thin air from the Legal Pub site. The noon time came from his claimed roommate on PT. Pick yer poison.

 

[Gabby66]

I also thought about your first question but how would they know this as a fact? If someone else had used Lauren's phone, how would they know that it couldn't have been her, unless it was used after the 3:00am sighting in the alley? Thinking about this now.

I guess if they also texted someone from her phone. I've heard there are some companies that provide print outs of texts. I've looked into this and Verizon does not (at least not routinely). Perhaps someone who used her phone was texing someone else and they could tell from the conversations that it wasn't her. Additionally, I would assume that LE has obtained the POIs phone records. Perhaps one was using her phone and making calls to a number not in her address, but whom LE was able to confirm is a friend of the POI. I don't know. I'm just speculating.

I just find it very odd that if LS was supposed to hang with JW, she didn't even respond to ONE of his texts? If she didn't have her phone, this would make sense. I can believe her maybe setting down the phone at JR's place, and losing track of time, but if she was alert enough to pick up that phone to take it with her to Sports, she didn't even check her texts and answer him once? Really? That's hard to believe.

 

[Gabby66]

I think it depends on the quality of the phone/battery. I use my blackberry constantly and am pretty negligent about charging it and it takes a couple days to run out of juice unless I'm somewhere where it has to search and search for a signal. At various times I've also programmed it to turn itself off when I'm sleeping (so that incoming calls and messages don't disturb me) and turn itself back on when I normally get up.

Yeah, this is very true, because some batteries just last longer. But even the best batteries will die over time if they aren't fully allowed to die (I think I stated fully allowed to charge before). What I mean is that many kids when they first get their phone, will just never want it to die. They see it get down to like 25% and charge it up - or whenever they can. A battery's life will be shortened if it's never allowed to completely die, but "gasp" - what teen/young adult would want THAT to happen? Even my own kids, knowing what we've taught them about batteries, will immediately charge it whenever they can. Depending on how long she's had the phone, that battery likely wouldn't last long.

 

[Walker]

(apologies if this appeared here earlier - tried to post a better-written, similar note last night and it vanished).

Anyone see Dateline NBC a couple of days ago? It had the story of Bethany Correira, who was sexually assaulted, murdered, and burned in a fire to destroy evidence in an adjacent building by her landlord. The detective on the case had a sister who suffered an almost identical outcome about 20 years earlier.

Brings to mind, the burned barn in Martinsville, IN, just 2 days after LS's disappearance. In my mind, here's the connection (as much as I loathe to make it): LS is Jewish. Her "friends"/POIs were mostly Jewish. Of them, a good number were former AEPis (a Jewish frat house, kicked off campus for bad behavior). A search of the barn's owner on spokeo.com (not necessarily a source I would take to the bank, but nonetheless a possibility) says that he is Jewish, and the business there is tree hauling and trucking. There are not many (any other?) Jews in Martinsville, IN. There are no synagogues there. The town has/had a reputation of being home to the KKK. What are the chances that two catastrophes involving Jewish people who might have tangentially known each other would happen so close in proximity and time to each other? What about JR's late night cell phone ping in Martinsville? Did AEPi ever host a dance/party at this barn? Again, according to spokeo.com, the owner, who is in his 50s has a son of the same name in his 20s.

None of this means that the barn owner knew anything, but the kids involved may have used this property. I also recall reading somewhere that the barn's owner was out of town at the time of the fire. My radar tells me the fire in the barn is a BIG factor here.

In the Morgan Harrington case, a mysterious fire took place shortly before her body was found on the nearby Anchorage Farm. Some speculate MH's body was at the farmhouse, dumped at AF, then the house was burned to destroy evidence of her murder. Others claim that without the knowledge of the owner, AF itself was used for late night parties. The property is so vast that a large gathering could easily go unnoticed. The case remains unresolved.

 

[Tr.]

Im extremely confident TG has no contact with the 3:38 witness. But looking at possible mystery men, it seems as if it could be more BB than AB. But this is JMO

Isn't BB considerably older than the rest of the crowd?... not sure who he is.

 

[Tr.]

incorrect. C and K for spelling a hard "K" sound in a Jewish name are interchangeable. Jewish names are spelled a myriad of ways, and are often anglicized. Here's just one example of a Jewish C with a C - Jim C from CNBC is Jewish: JC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:crazy: Unbelievable..C made it on to this board.

 

[Darcyline]

I just find it very odd that if LS was supposed to hang with JW, she didn't even respond to ONE of his texts? If she didn't have her phone, this would make sense. I can believe her maybe setting down the phone at JR's place, and losing track of time, but if she was alert enough to pick up that phone to take it with her to Sports, she didn't even check her texts and answer him once? Really? That's hard to believe.

I find that odd too. In fact, I find the entire story weird about how she was supposed to be hanging out with JW, but then instead wandered off with another man, but she didn't and no one else contacted JW at all yet their relationship was PERFECT AND STRONG and then he just went to sleep never knowing anything about anything that happened. Something isn't adding up-she had to have contacted him somehow OR they were having relationship trouble OR she was way, way more messed up way earlier than any of us think. That story is about as real to me as CR's punch amnesia.

 

[Walker]

If this was a random abduction, all her "friends" would be eager to tell what they know and help in any way to find lauren. They are not. Its human nature to lawyer up and stay in the shadows when you have something to hide. Just saying....

Again, a parallel to the Morgan Harrington case.

MH had gone with two bff's to a Metallica concert on the night of her disappearance. These two young college women were accused of letting MH OD and then dumping her body, and even of shooting her in the face, and leaving her in a farm field to die. The word friend was wrapped in quote marks, just as in this case.

Their early statements were either confused or misunderstood, which gave the impression that they had lied about the whereabouts of MH's car that night; of course, the apparent lies fueled suspicion.

However, in light of subsequent DNA evidence linking the murder to the perpetrator of another violent crime, the as yet unidentified man known as Sketch, and the eyewitness testimony of a UVA student and her father that MH was apparently hitching a ride on a bridge not far from the venue, the possibility that two girlfriends were guilty of a crime against MH seems extremely unlikely.

Yet these two students had apparently sought legal counsel, and both refused to speak openly to the media about the case.

You can't judge people based just on "hiding" or talking to lawyers: People generally don't seem to trust the law or the media to treat them fairly.

 

[Carmen101]

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,3710472.story

From the article Jupiter posted:

Wolff's friend told Fox59 News that Wolff was watching basketball several hours before Spierer disappeared and was under the impression his girlfriend was staying home at her apartment at Smallwood Plaza. He said Wolff went to bed at 2:30 a.m., about the same time Spierer and Rossman were coming home from Kilroy's Sports Bar.

The friend said Wolff received no phone calls or visitors in the hours after his fraternity brothers confronted Spierer and Rossman at Smallwood. The friend said Wolff called Spierer's cell phone the next day when it was answered by an employee of Kilroys'. Wolff then alerted Spierer's friends of her disappearance before filing a police report and calling her parents in New York.
(emphasis mine)

Note that JW's friend does not state that JW was texting LS the night of June 2 or the morning of June 3.

Where is the MSM report that JW was texting LS all night and the next day? It sounds like he stayed home, went to bed, and was under the impression that LS did the same.

Unsubstantiated statements have made their way into our thinking and I think it's hurting analysis.

 

[Pedrosmom]

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,3710472.story

From the article Jupiter posted:

Wolff's friend told Fox59 News that Wolff was watching basketball several hours before Spierer disappeared and was under the impression his girlfriend was staying home at her apartment at Smallwood Plaza. He said Wolff went to bed at 2:30 a.m., about the same time Spierer and Rossman were coming home from Kilroy's Sports Bar.

The friend said Wolff received no phone calls or visitors in the hours after his fraternity brothers confronted Spierer and Rossman at Smallwood. The friend said Wolff called Spierer's cell phone the next day when it was answered by an employee of Kilroys'. Wolff then alerted Spierer's friends of her disappearance before filing a police report and calling her parents in New York.
(emphasis mine)

Note that JW's friend does not state that JW was texting LS the night of June 2 or the morning of June 3.

Where is the MSM report that JW was texting LS all night and the next day? It sounds like he stayed home, went to bed, and was under the impression that LS did the same.

Unsubstantiated statements have made their way into our thinking and I think it's hurting analysis.

The only accurate records here would be the phone call/text logs of both LS and JW's phone. It's easy to erase a text or many but the fact that they existed can be substantiated elsewhere.

I find the Spierer's phone comments strange. Perhaps they are implying that the phone not only was being used, but was receiving multiple texts/calls. Was this phone at the bar the whole time? I smell something sinister about the cell phone and for an odd reason it seems to triangulate HT, JW, and LS's phone.

The truth is known - which is obvious by the parent's comments. Unfortunately it's a guessing game for us. We know one person who had the phone in their possession aside from LS and that is JW. Who else? and Why? So that someone was able to veryify her whereabouts all night?

 

[Pedrosmom]

Did someone else get hold of Lauren's phone between midnight and whenever it was left at the bar, to delete things from it? Is her mom hinting at that, I wonder?

I am a little confused/suspect as to when JW called LS's phone and the bar picked up. I also wonder, if the bar doesn't open until earliest 2PM, when and how he got the phone. Did he get it the night before? If he was calling it in the morning, presumably no one would answer seeing that no one is at the bar. But according to some accounts, JW called LS's phone and the bar answered and he went and retrieved the phone. WHEN???

I would also like confirmation as to the time he took his roommate to class. When the story first broke, I had heard 8AM. Later on, it had been changed to 12PM. Did he have the phone during the time he was apparently looking for Lauren the next morning?

Also, if Lauren last used her phone at Smallwood, at 12:16, she could have (a) left it there on accident and someone used it to follow her through the night or (b) actually took it with her and put it on silent or vibrate to ignore the flurry of calls from JW and then truly left it at the bar and JW picked it up or (c) someone took the phone, during a time which Lauren was not able to care and deleted its contents and left it at the bar deliberately.

Mamamia - I agree that the bar tapes need to be checked over. I haven't heard that they were ever looked at. That would at least rule out the dilemma of whether DR was there, drinks were spiked, phone was taken on purpose, her condition while at the bar, etc.

I think the Spierers are dropping subtle hints here and there and the phone story is something that shouldn't be discarded/believed or that there's more to it.

 

[Skigirl]

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...udents-disappearance-20110613,0,3710472.story
Note that JW's friend does not state that JW was texting LS the night of June 2 or the morning of June 3.

Where is the MSM report that JW was texting LS all night and the next day? It sounds like he stayed home, went to bed, and was under the impression that LS did the same.

Unsubstantiated statements have made their way into our thinking and I think it's hurting analysis.

I don't know of any MSM report that he was texting her at night -- HT has said that he couldn't reach her because she had left her phone at the bar -- I believe that was said in the same article that I posted an excerpt from a page or two ago. In that same article, HT said that he texted her the next day and that's what drew the attention of the person at Sports who got in touch to tell him to tell his friend to come get her phone. I agree with you that what we know is third-hand and may or may not be correct.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I don't know of any MSM report that he was texting her at night -- HT has said that he couldn't reach her because she had left her phone at the bar -- I believe that was said in the same article that I posted an excerpt from a page or two ago. In that same article, HT said that he texted her the next day and that's what drew the attention of the person at Sports who got in touch to tell him to tell his friend to come get her phone. I agree with you that what we know is third-hand and may or may not be correct.

What time did he get the phone? He was already contacting the parents by evening and the bar doesn't open until 4.