IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[akh]

What's been missing in the media is any type of implication even that they've tried talking to Sports' bar employees that worked that night (as well as any people in the bar that night). It could be the trail has grown too cold for the media to track down any bar patrons but you'd think it wouldn't be hard to track down employees that were there. That said, it's possible these people wouldn't talk for any number of reasons... including under the direction of LE to not talk to the media.

But then that doesn't preclude the media from at least trying and reporting "Several employees of Kilroy's were sought out for this story but all refused to be interviewed"... Or "Employees of Kilroy's have been asked to not comment on the case and nobody was willing to go on the record with us".

At least then people would know the media is doing their job... at least for any investigative media who would look to do more than copy a police press release....

Reporting that someone had "no comment" is more enlightening than wondering if anyone has even contacted them.

 

[bessie]

Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

This scenario makes sense for several reasons, and I'm interested in just sitting with it for a while. It actually feels good not to be fixated on the usual suspects, as they say.

Jupiter, this sounds like a variation on a theme. We've heard that LS was intoxicated and became rowdy at Sport's; we've heard that she was kicked out; we've heard that she and/or CR had intentions of scoring coke when they left the bar. (I've even speculated that the reason for the stop at SW was to get cash from her apartment.) And there's the bar manager's account of the dark, swarthy guy (could be Latino) throwing Lauren over his shoulder. All rumors from various sources, unsubstantiated and somewhat varied in the details, yet they share a common thread. There's a ring of truth in there, too. Our missing forum is full of cases of young women last seen at bars and nightclubs. Most of them also started out the evening with friends. In each instance, the evening started out innocently enough but eventually went astray.

In Lauren's case, all the speculation about the "usual suspects" has gone nowhere. Her parents' pleas for information have yielded little or no information. I feel like there has to be something else, and the reason no one is talking is because no one really knows what happened to Lauren except the perp who is a stranger. If your friend's nephew's story is accurate, it's quite possible the guy told LS where she could find him later if she changed her mind. Whether coke was the draw, or she was a little attracted to him, drugs and alcohol would've lowered her inhibitions, and she might've gone looking for him. That could explain why she was insistent about leaving JR's on her own.

 

[Jupiter812]

Jupiter, this sounds like a variation on a theme. We've heard that LS was intoxicated and became rowdy at Sport's; we've heard that she was kicked out; we've heard that she and/or CR had intentions of scoring coke when they left the bar. (I've even speculated that the reason for the stop at SW was to get cash from her apartment.) And there's the bar manager's account of the dark, swarthy guy (could be Latino) throwing Lauren over his shoulder. All rumors from various sources, unsubstantiated and somewhat varied in the details, yet they share a common thread. There's a ring of truth in there, too. Our missing forum is full of cases of young women last seen at bars and nightclubs. Most of them also started out the evening with friends. In each instance, the evening started out innocently enough but eventually went astray.

In Lauren's case, all the speculation about the "usual suspects" has gone nowhere. Her parents' pleas for information have yielded little or no information. I feel like there has to be something else, and the reason no one is talking is because no one really knows what happened to Lauren except the perp who is a stranger. If your friend's nephew's story is accurate, it's quite possible the guy told LS where she could find him later if she changed her mind. Whether coke was the draw, or she was a little attracted to him, drugs and alcohol would've lowered her inhibitions, and she might've gone looking for him. That could explain why she was insistent about leaving JR's on her own.

Bessie, it would follow then, based on your speculation that they went to her apt to get cash, that they were not able to make the deal so she went looking for him.

I can accept that she left JR's alone. I can still believe he exaggerated or lied about the rest.

 

[Jupiter812]

What's been missing in the media is any type of implication even that they've tried talking to Sports' bar employees that worked that night (as well as any people in the bar that night). It could be the trail has grown too cold for the media to track down any bar patrons but you'd think it wouldn't be hard to track down employees that were there. That said, it's possible these people wouldn't talk for any number of reasons... including under the direction of LE to not talk to the media.

But then that doesn't preclude the media from at least trying and reporting "Several employees of Kilroy's were sought out for this story but all refused to be interviewed"... Or "Employees of Kilroy's have been asked to not comment on the case and nobody was willing to go on the record with us".

At least then people would know the media is doing their job... at least for any investigative media who would look to do more than copy a police press release....

Reporting that someone had "no comment" is more enlightening than wondering if anyone has even contacted them.

Agreed, however, early on I'm pretty sure it was published that the Sports employees were told by their boss not to talk. You'd think there would be turnover since then though. Also I wonder if the State Excise Police told everyone they interviewed not to talk. The ATF has not decided this case as far as I know. Still this doesn't explain a "No comment" as you said.

And what a coinkydink this was just shared. A personal safety course for students in which one asks about LS, the lthe media asks, and the policeman can't comment of course. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7OORKdM9k"]Club on IU campus teams with police to promote safety - YouTube[/ame]

 

[British]

Bessie, it would follow then, based on your speculation that they went to her apt to get cash, that they were not able to make the deal so she went looking for him.

I can accept that she left JR's alone. I can still believe he exaggerated or lied about the rest.

I dont accept in any way, by any imagination, that she left that apartment intoxicated, without shoes, without her keys at 4.30 AM to go home alone when she had no way to get in her building. That story simply does not add up.

I also dont buy the story of the other POI about "memory loss". IMO, these stories make no sense and the POIs may have something to hide. If that was a case involving a "stranger", there would be more clarity in the POIs stories. My guess is that one or more of the POIs know what happened and/or may be responsible.

 

[imkeylime]

Jupiter, this sounds like a variation on a theme. We've heard that LS was intoxicated and became rowdy at Sport's; we've heard that she was kicked out; we've heard that she and/or CR had intentions of scoring coke when they left the bar. (I've even speculated that the reason for the stop at SW was to get cash from her apartment.) And there's the bar manager's account of the dark, swarthy guy (could be Latino) throwing Lauren over his shoulder. All rumors from various sources, unsubstantiated and somewhat varied in the details, yet they share a common thread. There's a ring of truth in there, too. Our missing forum is full of cases of young women last seen at bars and nightclubs. Most of them also started out the evening with friends. In each instance, the evening started out innocently enough but eventually went astray.

In Lauren's case, all the speculation about the "usual suspects" has gone nowhere. Her parents' pleas for information have yielded little or no information. I feel like there has to be something else, and the reason no one is talking is because no one really knows what happened to Lauren except the perp who is a stranger. If your friend's nephew's story is accurate, it's quite possible the guy told LS where she could find him later if she changed her mind. Whether coke was the draw, or she was a little attracted to him, drugs and alcohol would've lowered her inhibitions, and she might've gone looking for him. That could explain why she was insistent about leaving JR's on her own.

I, too, have thought LS might have gone to SW for $$$ and thus didn't take her shoes/cell. If she planned on going back to Kilroys, leaving them makes more sense. Maybe when LS and CR couldn't get $$$, LS got it from a POI instead. It's been suggested that she asked MB if he wanted to party. Maybe that also meant pitching in $$$, which JR did instead?

Instead of going home, she could have left JR's to meet someone ... with the intent of going back there later even. When she didn't return, JR might have called DR (vs. she called from his phone). Though IDK why LS would go to meet the "someone" alone, unless the someone didn't like JR or LS knew him/had met him apart from JR ... like in the story Jupiter heard.

I do believe the PsOI have something to hide, but I'm not convinced they know exactly what happened to LS either. It's perplexing,

 

[imkeylime]

I dont accept in any way, by any imagination, that she left that apartment intoxicated, without shoes, without her keys at 4.30 AM to go home alone when she had no way to get in her building. That story simply does not add up.

I also dont buy the story of the other POI about "memory loss". IMO, these stories make no sense and the POIs may have something to hide. If that was a case involving a "stranger", there would be more clarity in the POIs stories. My guess is that one or more of the POIs know what happened and/or may be responsible.

Your post, and Bessie's, makes me wonder something. I don't believe JR's story per se, either, but maybe she left his place earlier than 4:30 am and not to go home? JR may know she went to meet "someone" for "something" but not what went down after she left. Maybe he even expected her to come back ...

I don't buy that CR has memory loss from being hit at SW, but he might have it from being wasted on alcohol and illegal substances. IDK.

Re: leaving w/o everything ... I agree with you in principle, as an adult. But kids don't always think things through, I've found.

 

[Jupiter812]

No, I don't have her going home either. I've always thought JR said 4:30 as a cover for something but what you said makes sense. The 4:15 call could be related to that "something" and "someone" or it could be "where is she?". Her leaving JR's earlier would put her at Tenth and College earlier too, possibly at 3:38 a.m.

 

[imkeylime]

No, I don't have her going home either. I've always thought JR said 4:30 as a cover for something but what you said makes sense. The 4:15 call could be related to that "something" and "someone" or it could be "where is she?". Her leaving JR's earlier would put her at Tenth and College earlier too, possibly at 3:38 a.m.

Good point about 3:38 am and Tenth/College ... which could also bring the dark-skinned guy back into play. Though I previously questioned LS going alone to meet someone, she may have wanted to, for whatever reason. She may have been independent by nature (good under other circumstances).

 

[OldSteve]

Jupiter, this sounds like a variation on a theme. We've heard that LS was intoxicated and became rowdy at Sport's; we've heard that she was kicked out; we've heard that she and/or CR had intentions of scoring coke when they left the bar. (I've even speculated that the reason for the stop at SW was to get cash from her apartment.) And there's the bar manager's account of the dark, swarthy guy (could be Latino) throwing Lauren over his shoulder. All rumors from various sources, unsubstantiated and somewhat varied in the details, yet they share a common thread. There's a ring of truth in there, too. Our missing forum is full of cases of young women last seen at bars and nightclubs. Most of them also started out the evening with friends. In each instance, the evening started out innocently enough but eventually went astray.

In Lauren's case, all the speculation about the "usual suspects" has gone nowhere. Her parents' pleas for information have yielded little or no information. I feel like there has to be something else, and the reason no one is talking is because no one really knows what happened to Lauren except the perp who is a stranger. If your friend's nephew's story is accurate, it's quite possible the guy told LS where she could find him later if she changed her mind. Whether coke was the draw, or she was a little attracted to him, drugs and alcohol would've lowered her inhibitions, and she might've gone looking for him. That could explain why she was insistent about leaving JR's on her own.

BBM
So true! Also, how many times does it turn out to be the last person to see the victim....

What this case lacks IMO is a boyfriend so in love with LS that he cares more about her and less about legal implications...

 

[threepisces]

It doesn't make sense for JR to have the 430 time wrong unless he is guilty in some way. The 415 call tells him exactly when it all occurred.

 

[akh]

It doesn't make sense for JR to have the 430 time wrong unless he is guilty in some way. The 415 call tells him exactly when it all occurred.

The new info and speculation is interesting and ties back into what some wondered much sooner- If JR fabricated some of his story before he knew how serious things were (that she was really missing and not being found as opposed to missing for a day or two and would soon return after a weekend of partying with some new hookup or something) then he could've painted himself into a corner. Maybe his original story was to actually cover for LS and he didn't want to tell LE she left to score some coke or that the call at 4:15AM was him trying to find out why she hadn't returned yet... or if she'd ever shown up where she was supposed to. Or it could've been to cover for himself (or both of them) if he was expecting her to return with coke or other drugs he'd chipped in on. And of course he probably wouldn't want to say what DD she was heading to... if he actually knew...

But once he lied about any of the story he probably would be worried about changing it once he knew she was really missing and foul play was suspected. A lie in any part would make the credibility in all parts questionable at best.

I gotta say, the recent info would tie into the story tightly and put the mystery guy back into play, etc.. Because he could be one and the same from the Kilroy's story. And the timing could be right for her to actually just run into and not intentionally meet him... or maybe if MB and JR didn't want to 'party' she knew that guy did and went looking for him.

And if she really got kicked out of the bar that would explain to me how she left her shoes and phone without being a total wasted mess and just forgetting them. I don't have a problem thinking a bouncer 'asking' her to 'leave' the bar means 'immediately' and doesn't allow her to do anything by be escorted straight to the exit. When you're kicked out of a bar that means they are worried you are going to make trouble for the bar... in ways that involve the law. So they want you gone immediately.
-
As for CR's pre-trial conference. Nobody could ask about that night. They could ask I guess but CR's atty would be justified in objecting and not allowing CR to answer. And more than likely CR would be there for the pre-trial conference but not actually even involved in it. It's a formality but not really some involved thing. It's more going to be the prosecutor and CR's atty talking about where the case stands, discovery issues, and probably trying to negotiate a plea deal and make sure both really want to carry the case onto trial. CR might be in the courthouse but not necessarily even in the same room with the prosecutor and his atty.

That said, the prosecutor could always offer a deal where he tells the atty "You tell your client to talk fully about June 3rd and I'll drop these current charges entirely".

 

[Jupiter812]

Some very good points up there ^ that help fill in the empty spaces, like why JR may have needed a cover and how he couldn't turn back.

For the first time, I feel like we're getting somewhere... just wish we knew where that somewhere was.

Appreciate the info about the CR stuff.

 

[Jupiter812]

BBM
snipped

What this case lacks IMO is a boyfriend so in love with LS that he cares more about her and less about legal implications...

I like how you said that. But if JW (boyfriend) was in fact at home watching the game and then asleep that night he has no info to contribute. It would be a double tragedy for her to disappear and for him to be implicated or arrested for something he didn't do. Not equal tragicness of course.

I don't know if JW now lives at Tenth and College or not. He did go into the apts when I saw him there; he could have been visiting someone. But my fantasy is (assuming he's innocent): He moved there to be closer to where she last was seen and to keep an eye on those 5 North boys.

 

[Blythe]

I'm beginning to consider that JR essentially tossed LS out at about 4:30. The call to DR may have been a last ditch effort to have someone pick her up and take her home. He may have let her stumble out. That would make the basic facts of his story accurate, though not the implication that he was considerat nor that she was safe. He may not know what became of LS ; but certainly knows that he left her for dead or at least left her to her own devices. This would leave a wider window for her to wander off, meet up with someone random, or be picked up.

I think we overestimate the value of cameras in the neighborhood. It is not cinemascope.

Just another new thought after four months of no progress, no LS, no evidence.

JMHO

 

[holly2325]

I'm beginning to consider that JR essentially tossed LS out at about 4:30. The call to DR may have been a last ditch effort to have someone pick her up and take her home. He may have let her stumble out. That would make the basic facts of his story accurate, though not the implication that he was considerat nor that she was safe. He may not know what became of LS ; but certainly knows that he left her for dead or at least left her to her own devices. This would leave a wider window for her to wander off, meet up with someone random, or be picked up.

I think we overestimate the value of cameras in the neighborhood. It is not cinemascope.

Just another new thought after four months of no progress, no LS, no evidence.

JMHO

I often wonder what the conversation would be if JR had called 911 and subsequently been charged with manslaughter for providing cocaine to LS.
If not in criminal court at least in civil court by RS/ CS.
This would have been possible right?

 

[bloom54]

And if she really got kicked out of the bar that would explain to me how she left her shoes and phone without being a total wasted mess and just forgetting them. I don't have a problem thinking a bouncer 'asking' her to 'leave' the bar means 'immediately' and doesn't allow her to do anything by be escorted straight to the exit. When you're kicked out of a bar that means they are worried you are going to make trouble for the bar... in ways that involve the law. So they want you gone immediately.

and they could have said,... "you get out NOW or we're calling the cops"... although I have a feeling Sports isn't in the habit of bringing in LE voluntarily... but it's still a threat that would cause a miscreant to high-tail it out of there without shoes or a cell phone.

I'd think that Sports' management wouldn't want that part of a story to be public because it would be an indicator that they know drugs are a problem there, but choose to simply send people away...

hmmm...

 

[bloom54]

Good point about 3:38 am and Tenth/College ... which could also bring the dark-skinned guy back into play. Though I previously questioned LS going alone to meet someone, she may have wanted to, for whatever reason. She may have been independent by nature (good under other circumstances).

and perhaps the "dark-skinned guy" wasn't a stranger to her... so why would she be afraid to meet up with him?

interesting how some of these pieces could come together...

 

[Blythe]

I often wonder what the conversation would be if JR had called 911 and subsequently been charged with manslaughter for providing cocaine to LS.
If not in criminal court at least in civil court by RS/ CS.
This would have been possible right?

Well, of course, there would be no conversation on this forum if 911 had been called, though within the university community and local law enforcement action would be taken against suppliers. It's been discussed on this forum that provisions within the law, specifically immunity from prosecution, may be warranted to encourage such calls for medical intervention.

However, I am considering that LS was not yet in a medical emergency, at least not an imminent one. I also suppose that JR would not have been completely sober nor even particularily coherent himself. Perhaps, he just wanted to get her out of his apartment and was not concerned with her welfare. It seems he emphasized otherwise in his reputed statement about making sure she could walk and watching her round the corner.

Bloom, as far as the cell phone is concerned; I find it a stretch to believe that anyone leaves without it deliberately. I'll buy that she thought it was in her wristlet, but otherwise, my assumption is that she was too wasted to even be thinking about it. JMO

 

[holly2325]

Well, of course, there would be no conversation on this forum if 911 had been called, though within the university community and local law enforcement action would be taken against suppliers. It's been discussed on this forum that provisions within the law, specifically immunity from prosecution, may be warranted to encourage such calls for medical intervention.

However, I am considering that LS was not yet in a medical emergency, at least not an imminent one. I also suppose that JR would not have been completely sober nor even particularily coherent himself. Perhaps, he just wanted to get her out of his apartment and was not concerned with her welfare. It seems he emphasized otherwise in his reputed statement about making sure she could walk and watching her round the corner.

Bloom, as far as the cell phone is concerned; I find it a stretch to believe that anyone leaves without it deliberately. I'll buy that she thought it was in her wristlet, but otherwise, my assumption is that she was too wasted to even be thinking about it. JMO

Hey Blythe

Sorry I didn't mean to attach my musing about what might have been had JR phoned 911 to your post.

I was just confirming that according to Indiana law if JR had done the right thing, he could be facing manslaughter charges right now. Had he as host provided drugs.