IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[British]

I am wondering if there will be any developments over the next year. If not, I think that the Spierer's may end up filling a civil lawsuit. That would force everyone to at least give depositions. But I am not a lawyer and I dont know whether they have a strong civil case or a judge could dismiss it.

 

[Jacobite]

After you hear from Bessie, I would also like to know if Ray ever answered Atty's question about whether or not JR had a guest.

There's been a lot of talk about the mysterious guest of JR. It's said a tweet puts him in Bloomington on 3 June. HT states that JR had an overnight guest.
So, we add it up and have his name. But, why no mention of him by BO, the parents, the police, or the media?

 

[Jacobite]

I am wondering if there will be any developments over the next year. If not, I think that the Spierer's may end up filling a civil lawsuit. That would force everyone to at least give depositions. But I am not a lawyer and I dont know whether they have a strong civil case or a judge could dismiss it.

That is how you make people talk. You depose them. And, I'm sure a judge would want to hear some answers as well. I'm actually surprised that a lawsuit for loss of love and affection has not already been filed.
''

 

[British]

That is how you make people talk. You depose them. And, I'm sure a judge would want to hear some answers as well. I'm actually surprised that a lawsuit for loss of love and affection has not already been filed.
''

I think there will be something eventually. I dont know what is the statute of limitations for cases like that, but I suspect it may be filled within the first 2 years.

 

[bx2]

Reference posts with date/time or a post number. If it causes a problem I'll let you know.

After you hear from Bessie, I would also like to know if Ray ever answered Atty's question about whether or not JR had a guest.

Part 5 of that thread on 6/26/11 at 3:53

 

[Ros]

There's been a lot of talk about the mysterious guest of JR. It's said a tweet puts him in Bloomington on 3 June. HT states that JR had an overnight guest.
So, we add it up and have his name. But, why no mention of him by BO, the parents, the police, or the media?

I saw the tweet before it was taken down. Now I wish I would have saved a screen shot.

My guess is that JR saw LS walking out escorted by his guest but he hasn't said so. The PIs, parents, LE may suspect, but cannot prove, that is so. They do not want there to be pre-trial publicity that would interfere with a trial. The guest's family has probably hired a very good lawyer. The media are not going to print anything unless they can get it from a reliable source and the tweet is now private.

I have also found it curious that every time people get too far along in suspicions towards the guest, the blogs either stop putting out information on LS (e.g. TG) or the go off line all together (both versions of JRNNT). On PT, the posts started getting modded. The original article in which HT says that JR had a guest from home was taken off the web.

If the guest was not at JRs, where else would he be in Bton at that time?

 

[Ros]

Part 5 of that thread on 6/26/11 at 3:53

So Ray confirmed that JR did have a friend from home but did not give out his identity, though he was confirm a name if someone gave it. So did he ever confirm the name of the guest?

 

[Jupiter812]

So Ray confirmed that JR did have a friend from home but did not give out his identity, though he was confirm a name if someone gave it. So did he ever confirm the name of the guest?

And apparently Ray wants us to believe this friend from home arrived in Bloomington on the Greyhound bus, right?

 

[bx2]

So Ray confirmed that JR did have a friend from home but did not give out his identity, though he was confirm a name if someone gave it. So did he ever confirm the name of the guest?

No one tried to confirm until 8/1 and Ray was off the scene by then.

 

[Jupiter812]

I saw the tweet before it was taken down. Now I wish I would have saved a screen shot.

I think I have that. I'll look tomorrow.

 

[bx2]

If the guest was not at JRs, where else would he be in Bton at that time?

Yeah, total guessing game here. There was three girls mentioned as being at JR's pregame party (that LS and CR tried to stop by to see at T&C after leaving Smallwood, but they weren't home)... maybe with them?

If the guest was who we are presuming, he does have other (fb) friends in Bloomington. Remember too that JR was at Sports at the same time as LS/CR. I find it unlikely that he went there and back home alone. Maybe the guest dropped him off?

 

[Jupiter812]

The recent rumor about Bloomington PD kicking in JR's door, if true, speaks volumes. But it also reminds me that it was what...6-8 days before the public found out that it was JR not CR who was the last one to see Lauren. I'm sure much of JR's delay was due to lawyering up but it still paints a guilty picture.

 

[Ros]

What if the unanswered second phone call to a male friend was to the guest, who did not answer because he was about to walk in the door.

 

[Ros]

Of course the other reason the guest's name is not being mentioned is that he was with several other people who all vouch for his presence. With an airtight alibi, there would be no reason to involve him.

 

[friendsara]

I have also found it curious that every time people get too far along in suspicions towards the guest, the blogs either stop putting out information on LS (e.g. TG) or the go off line all together (both versions of JRNNT). On PT, the posts started getting modded. The original article in which HT says that JR had a guest from home was taken off the web.

Yes, yes, yes.

Also, I recently discovered that the owner of JRNTT has other blogs. I haven't read through all the entries - they're pretty long - but it just occurred to me that there may be info about why JRNTT was shut down on them somewhere. I'll let you do the googling if you're interested. (I actually found out the blog owners name several months ago based on a comment she wrote on an IDS news story that seemed to be in her writing style where her name was listed. But that is just a brag on my own sleuthing skills. )

 

[Ros]

Yes, yes, yes.

Also, I recently discovered that the owner of JRNTT has other blogs. I haven't read through all the entries - they're pretty long - but it just occurred to me that there may be info about why JRNTT was shut down on them somewhere. I'll let you do the googling if you're interested. (I actually found out the blog owners name several months ago based on a comment she wrote on an IDS news story that seemed to be in her writing style where her name was listed. But that is just a brag on my own sleuthing skills. )

I found her blog in which she says in the "about me" section that she shut down JRNNT because there were very powerful and hostile people who did not want her looking for LS. She became worried about the safety of her young child.

Wow...

 

[VeryVeritas]

Is that true?

'

1)
Someone corrected my understanding of the June 2012 PI's account of LS slamming her hed, then making it through the alley, then falling face down without trying to stop herself. The correction was that the Carrying of LS on CR's back came BEFORE she fell face down in the Alley. My understanding from listening to the PI's was that this was AFTER the face down fall upon exiting the alley. And that she was seen on CR's back at 5N, after that last known fall, and was apparently conscious. Please, those of you who have watched the PI's video, help decide if this was at 5N or if it was between 10th and College and up to the last Known fall after existing the Alley.

2)
If you were asking if it was true that CR moved quickly... I think it depends on #1 above. Because if it were CR who had LS on his back at 5N AFTER the face down fall, then yes he had to have moved quickly because within a couple of minutes the guy who picked up her wallet/purse and keys saw nothing else. To clear out of there that fast, someone (CR apparently) had to have moved quickly. Even if CR was not carrying LS and just left her lay there, then someone else moved quickly to get her... and CR moved quickly to get out of there. The timing of finding the wallet/purse and keys is so close to when CR/LS exited the Alley that it means that whatever happened, happened fast.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I think that's totally unrealistic. There was no time to do that, but even if there were, the risk would be far too high. It would have been discovered by now.

If she died from an OD, a 4th person MUST be involved. A drug dealer who was called to evaluate and "professionally" disposed the body. But I dont believe this theory. Why? Because the police would (or should) have discovered any such link and that 4th person would be known and arrested by now.

Respecting your thinking, I disagree.

1) Yes I think there was time, because remember no one was looking for LS at 4:00am, or 4:30, or 5:00 or 6:00... it was hours later. He/They/whomever had several hours. In addition to that, the body could have been placed temporarily in one location, and them permanently buried elsewhere.
2) There are many graves out there. How many of them do you see opened? It is one of the last places anyone is going to look for a body.
In an above ground Mausoleum, people do not regularly check their loved ones corpse. This is far too gruesome for most people to do. So, no this sort of doubling up could go unnoticed for a long long time. I've been to cemetaries and seen some rather amazing things. I've seen fresh graves, that have just been covered, these are easy to spot. digging down a few feet through loose soil would not be difficult. putting the soil back and even the cemetary caretakers would not think anything strange. I've also seen fresh holes dug with equipment in place to lower a coffin just before a burial. Note that Jewish tradition is to have a quick burial and the actual funeral 1 year later. It's a little more tricky, but possible for someone to get into one of these deep holes and dig even deeper and bury a body which would then later have a coffin lowered on top and then filled with soil. Again, this might not be discovered for over 100 years.
But then I'll tell you something else I've seen. I've seen old cemetaries from over 100 years ago get bulldozed and no one was looking at what was being turned over in the soil. Many years ago I was playing tennis at a university that borders a cemetary. The ball went over the fence and my opponent insisted we retrieve it. this is one of those areas that had recently been bulldozed due to some changes in the boundary. In looking for the ball, we found parts of old coffins laying right on top of the ground, and large sections of a human skull. So... point here... if you think cemetaries have 24 hr surveillance and really astute people working in them you are mistaken.
3) I did lean towards an outright OD or OD + Alcohol + possible health conditions BEFORE I saw the Video in June of the 2 PI's describing LS slamming into the concrete and face down into the gravel lot. The changed my view to that she was also suffering from serious head injuries.
So, 4th person, mystery person, is definitely plausible and various theories still unbroken. But... I disagree that you think LE would have run that down by now. Clever people, paranoid people, rich people, local people, all could have pulled this off in the various scenarios.

Recently someone proved that JR did not have his vehicle on the night LS vanished. And that strongly supports the 4th person theory.

And let me flip this around to you. If you think it's so unlikely that a pro disposed of LS, or that JR and pals were not capable of a respectful burial given the several hours they had, then how do you think it went down?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Where do you get that? Never heard before. It could be important.

These details of CR and LS stopping at 10th and College and trying to see 4 of LS's friends at a specific apartment there, come from the same PI video from June of this year, where they detail the account of LS falling over from a sitting position and slamming her head on the concrete with an audible sound. It is only AFTER this that CR/LS moved through the Alley.

It is also this video where I understook that CR had LS on his back over at 5N after they had exited the Alley. Again, I ask that you watch the PI video and see what you think.

 

[VeryVeritas]

There is a possible scenario that hasn't been discussed. Probably because it's a little odd but it's at least plausible.

Assume CR's memory loss is real. Perhaps he arrives at the apartment with LS, she's injured from hitting her head, woozy from drugs, and overall not in good shape. CR passes out leaving MB with a 'problem'. Perhaps LS is not breathing or ceases breathing, CR is out of it and cannot explain what happened. Seeing LS looking battered MB fears CR did something (accident or on purpose). So maybe that sets the wheels in motion to what happens next. Maybe trying to protect his roommate.

And in that type of scenario, CR ends up looking really bad as circumstances have now unfolded, but he could legitimately be uninvolved with her disappearance and have no recollections of any helpful information in those most important moments.

Plausible Deniability. Yes, it's Plausible, yet factors are pointing to this being a load of BS.