IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

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So you hide the drugs in the apartment and tell police/medics that you don't know what she took or how she got them. It doesn't make sense that they would be scared enough for drugs, but not scared enough for the disposal of a dead body leaving possible evidence. The only way I could see drugs being the reason is if CR drugged LS and bought the drugs from JR. That's the only reasonable explanation if it was drugs, IMO.


This is not necessarily my theory but........

What about the fear that it will surface that you are selling drugs and your parents will find out. Plus this fits with your above scenario but then the out of town guest must be the supplier if willing to take part. And if that is true that could explain why he didn't want to bee seen at the pre game. And DR (my choice for supplying attendance list for pre-game) didn't know he was in town.

Just brainstorming.....
 
Respecting your thinking, I disagree.

1) Yes I think there was time, because remember no one was looking for LS at 4:00am, or 4:30, or 5:00 or 6:00... it was hours later. He/They/whomever had several hours. In addition to that, the body could have been placed temporarily in one location, and them permanently buried elsewhere.
2) There are many graves out there. How many of them do you see opened? It is one of the last places anyone is going to look for a body.
In an above ground Mausoleum, people do not regularly check their loved ones corpse. This is far too gruesome for most people to do. So, no this sort of doubling up could go unnoticed for a long long time. I've been to cemetaries and seen some rather amazing things. I've seen fresh graves, that have just been covered, these are easy to spot. digging down a few feet through loose soil would not be difficult. putting the soil back and even the cemetary caretakers would not think anything strange. I've also seen fresh holes dug with equipment in place to lower a coffin just before a burial. Note that Jewish tradition is to have a quick burial and the actual funeral 1 year later. It's a little more tricky, but possible for someone to get into one of these deep holes and dig even deeper and bury a body which would then later have a coffin lowered on top and then filled with soil. Again, this might not be discovered for over 100 years.
But then I'll tell you something else I've seen. I've seen old cemetaries from over 100 years ago get bulldozed and no one was looking at what was being turned over in the soil. Many years ago I was playing tennis at a university that borders a cemetary. The ball went over the fence and my opponent insisted we retrieve it. this is one of those areas that had recently been bulldozed due to some changes in the boundary. In looking for the ball, we found parts of old coffins laying right on top of the ground, and large sections of a human skull. So... point here... if you think cemetaries have 24 hr surveillance and really astute people working in them you are mistaken.
3) I did lean towards an outright OD or OD + Alcohol + possible health conditions BEFORE I saw the Video in June of the 2 PI's describing LS slamming into the concrete and face down into the gravel lot. The changed my view to that she was also suffering from serious head injuries.
So, 4th person, mystery person, is definitely plausible and various theories still unbroken. But... I disagree that you think LE would have run that down by now. Clever people, paranoid people, rich people, local people, all could have pulled this off in the various scenarios.

Recently someone proved that JR did not have his vehicle on the night LS vanished. And that strongly supports the 4th person theory.

And let me flip this around to you. If you think it's so unlikely that a pro disposed of LS, or that JR and pals were not capable of a respectful burial given the several hours they had, then how do you think it went down?

I wonder if anyone checked Valhalla Memory Gardens.
 
I found her blog in which she says in the "about me" section that she shut down JRNNT because there were very powerful and hostile people who did not want her looking for LS. She became worried about the safety of her young child.

Wow...

Can you post a link?
 
After thinking about DB's tweet some more, I question whether an extremely guilty party would do such a thing several hours later. One would get out of dodge, wouldn't he?

Sounds like perhaps DB's plan worked then if you feel this way.

He probably did get the hell out of dodge, but made the tweet to make us all think he stayed in Bloomington and didn't have any reason to flee.
 
I agree this scenario is possible. But when I read about the work they are still doing on the Etan Patz case in NYC makes me wonder if they have further scrutinized the dumpster behind JR's apartment. Also neighbors could volunteer lists of things they had in the trash that day and those could be used to confirm they had the right trash in the landfill search.


I think you're giving LE way too much credit. I doubt they ever actually tried to get an inventory of what to expect in the dumpsters... or even thought about such a thing.
 
I agree this scenario is possible. But when I read about the work they are still doing on the Etan Patz case in NYC makes me wonder if they have further scrutinized the dumpster behind JR's apartment. Also neighbors could volunteer lists of things they had in the trash that day and those could be used to confirm they had the right trash in the landfill search.

Who knows how they would be thinking at 3AM or whatever in their state of mind and at their age?

Even if they didn't supply the drugs in that scenario they likely know who did. They likely had drugs in their system too. Besides considering prison, loss of income from drug sales (if any), they'd also have to consider their academic record and what it would mean to IU authorities if they were involved with drugs and that somehow led to a death. And then there are civil suits to consider.

So they weigh that against "No body, no crime". And who is to say whatever they did whether they were attempting to create some other larger story, figuring she'd be found later but they were just buying time for the next few hours to say she left them so whatever happened must've been after she left. But then something happened they didn't expect and rendered their rest of their plan moot because she wasn't found?

That's just one possible thought process. What if her demise was only partially the drugs, if at all (what if she'd hit her head bad enough that it led to death), and she had marks on her that they feared would be misinterpreted as her being beaten. Would they want to risk trying to explain that? Again the thought process could've been "No body, no crime, no questions".

And those are pretty much assuming nothing was forced upon her, which if you go down that road then it gets even more likely they'd fear police.
 
I couldn't agree more. Sure, it's the most obvious answer but with a body missing for over a year, it leaves too many unanswered questions. I have a hard time believing that got so lucky disposing the body, leaving zero evidence, no witnesses, and were not caught on camera at all. They're just college kids.

Yes, but at least some of them were smart college kids. CR was a Kelley student, and Kelley is one of the best b-schools in the nation. Admission is very selective and the coursework isn't easy.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto

On the other hand, they weren't smart enough to avoid previous run-ins with the BPD.
 
For me, the ultimate question, which we seem to be dancing around, is: why would (somewhat) typical university students dispose of the body of a fellow student? I'm not thinking that their drug involvement is epic, though, of course, I may be dead wrong.

So what do you do with a drunken (drugged/beaten up) 'girl'? And, just askin', would it have been different if the victim had been male?
 
Imkeylimes details on prior POIs past minor run-in w BPD re underage consumption etc.. bring me back to the strange quickness in reporting LS missing. I mean, this group seemed to be in and out of BPD at all hours..so why wouldnt ALL friends from that nite assume that LS was picked up for a public intox or such charge? which appears to be the norm w this crowd. It must be the known real dangers of the peripheral crowd...
 
Imkeylimes details on prior POIs past minor run-in w BPD re underage consumption etc.. bring me back to the strange quickness in reporting LS missing. I mean, this group seemed to be in and out of BPD at all hours..so why wouldnt ALL friends from that nite assume that LS was picked up for a public intox or such charge? which appears to be the norm w this crowd. It must be the known real dangers of the peripheral crowd...

I agree that JW was highly motivated to report her missing. The questions for me are: What did he think had happened to her? What had he heard? What did he learn about the previous night?

Knowing the reactions of all the PsOI would be very helpful. Who said what and when did they say it?
 
Imkeylimes details on prior POIs past minor run-in w BPD re underage consumption etc.. bring me back to the strange quickness in reporting LS missing. I mean, this group seemed to be in and out of BPD at all hours..so why wouldnt ALL friends from that nite assume that LS was picked up for a public intox or such charge? which appears to be the norm w this crowd. It must be the known real dangers of the peripheral crowd...

That's an interesting thought. Maybe him reporting her missing was his way of checking that out? I think it's likely that JW heard of her company/condition at SW from someone ...
 
Imkeylimes details on prior POIs past minor run-in w BPD re underage consumption etc.. bring me back to the strange quickness in reporting LS missing. I mean, this group seemed to be in and out of BPD at all hours..so why wouldnt ALL friends from that nite assume that LS was picked up for a public intox or such charge? which appears to be the norm w this crowd. It must be the known real dangers of the peripheral crowd...

Just to clarify the timeline for reporting LS missing,

based on the PT post at Fri Jun 24, 2011 06:31 PM:

JW drove his roommate to class at noon. He did not text his roommate to tell him that LS was missing until late afternoon, about 4 or 5.
 
If we suspend for a moment that MB put CR to bed, what else might Lauren and CR done? Continue on their quest for what they might have been going back to her Smallwood apartment.

Where else might they have gone in their quest? A few doors down to JR's.

Just another possibility to throw out there...

In the spirit of "supposing" ... if LS and CR made it back to JR's, what happened there might be what CR wants to forget. I keep thinking about the article that said CR wanted to have sex with her. Her ODing during/after someone did that could have caused a panic. But he'd have done that at his own place, I'd assume. And wouldn't there be some evidence of that?

I'm still inclined to think that she didn't make it back to 5 North, or at least not on her own two feet ...
 
In the spirit of "supposing" ... if LS and CR made it back to JR's, what happened there might be what CR wants to forget. I keep thinking about the article that said CR wanted to have sex with her. Her ODing during/after someone did that could have caused a panic. But he'd have done that at his own place, I'd assume. And wouldn't there be some evidence of that?

I'm still inclined to think that she didn't make it back to 5 North, or at least not on her own two feet ...

Agree that she didn't necessarily make it to 5 North on her own feet. Not likely she was "in the mood", either.

Why would two people put her at 5 North if she wasn't?
 
Agree that she didn't necessarily make it to 5 North on her own feet. Not likely she was "in the mood", either.

Why would two people put her at 5 North if she wasn't?

I always found the report of CR puking on his floor odd. Im not sure why.

This is purely conjecture, but what if he started to have his way with her on the floor there (unable to get her to his bedroom) and she began vomiting and fading while in the act? It would certainly be rape considering her condition, but would not necessarily have been 'forced.'

Maybe while CR was bringing LS back to his apartment, he called JR to come over and join in? This was not really that uncommon at my university (mmf), not my thing but it happened. I know this is reaching, but this could explain how JR got involved.

Do we know that JR did not go over to CR/MB's apartment? Maybe if not for sex, then to bring drugs?
 
After you hear from Bessie, I would also like to know if Ray ever answered Atty's question about whether or not JR had a guest.

I have heard back from Bessie, and I find her response vague and annoying, tbh.

Out of Love for Lauren, I am trying to get up to speed with WS policy.

To answer this question, no he did not/
 
I always found the report of CR puking on his floor odd. Im not sure why.

This is purely conjecture, but what if he started to have his way with her on the floor there (unable to get her to his bedroom) and she began vomiting and fading while in the act? It would certainly be rape considering her condition, but would not necessarily have been 'forced.'

Maybe while CR was bringing LS back to his apartment, he called JR to come over and join in? This was not really that uncommon at my university (mmf), not my thing but it happened. I know this is reaching, but this could explain how JR got involved.

Do we know that JR did not go over to CR/MB's apartment? Maybe if not for sex, then to bring drugs?

Your conjecture is as valid as anyone else's. I just don't think LS was particularily alluring that evening, what with the blackened eyes and all, to imagine a "love" fest.

I wouldn't want to cover for CR if I were MB or JR in that scenario especially knowing he beat me to claiming the "memory loss" alibi. I'll buy that CR and LS crashed together and then something went terribly wrong. MB was left with the "problem" and did seek JR. Now what happened from there...
 
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