IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[Jupiter812]

I'd like to make an observation, which isn't a defense of JR's reaction (or his family's involvement) in this case. But as I've noted, the Rs come from the area of MI where the OCCK case occurred. I believe the family has lived there awhile (and may even have members in the law profession). That case (OCCK) has been an absolute circus over the years, with one suspect (there have been a lot) committing suicide, a victim of a murder becoming a suspect in the public eye, etc.

My point is ... I don't like how the POIs immediately lawyered up (and clammed up). But ... in the Rs' case, they may have been preconditioned, in a sense. I'm not saying that's right ... and even if JR's story is true (which I doubt), he should have walked LS home that night. But I'm not surprised that he lawyered up. JMO.

No, I'm not surprised he lawyered up either. What I was trying to say is I'll bet R. Senior was not happy if JR was that cooperative without first consulting parents or a professional. I know my father would have had a conniption fit.

I think your point about the OCCK case as it relates to JR and his family is pertinent and valid.

 

[sweet_blush]

Over the past year there has been sporadic mention of possible LE involvement. For the most part, I wave off such speculation as sensationalistic or conspiratorial. I've known about this arrest but haven't shared it because I do not like trying to tie in every local drama that hits the news. I am NOT whatsoever saying he is involved. I am however, at a point in this case where I am open to considering possibilities other than the boys.

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/22880.html

With regards to a possible LE cover-up, I would like to say that much of that theory was coming from ChickJustin, and she pushed the theory aggressively on Gatto's blog, JRNTT, her own blog and elsewhere.

When Lauren first went missing, I was in discussion with a Bloomington resident who claimed to know BPD Chief Diekhoff, as well as his wife, who is a Justice in Monroe County. This person, and I have no way of verifying who he is, absolutley insists that Chief Diekhoff would not allow a crooked element to operate under his leadership.

This person also said that Officer Lerg, the IU officer who committed suicide, was having severe depression and life trouble, and was in no way part of a LE cover-up.

That being said, Chick Justin was making some rather convincing points before she was taken away by LE.

 

[Btown]

BPD Chief Diekhoff is not in charge of IUPD, so that is irrelevant in discussing the arrest of an IUPD officer.

Chief Keith Cash is the one in charge of IUPD, and the officer who was arrested. That officer's son appears to be in Monroe County Jail also for some reason.

 

[sweet_blush]

BPD Chief Diekhoff is not in charge of IUPD, so that is irrelevant in discussing the arrest of an IUPD officer.

I never said Diekhoff was in charge of the IUPD.

When the subject first came up about a possible LE cover-up, there were rumors of a cop car seen pulling out of the waffle place around the time Lauren supposedly left JRs. Also rumors of a homeless man, Tallboy, hearing a scream around that time, and then rumors that he disappeared, and also another homeless man, Roaddog?, being found in a dumpster behind a steak house.

The LE cover-up theory has been around from the beginning...

 

[sweet_blush]

The height is more than "slightly" off, and I believe, just from memory, that the weight may have been as well. I don't know how we can do better than estimate AB's weight, and certainly no one knows what he was wearing. I'm also missing the "pointed" aspect of his sideburns, whose design is also unknown with any precision at least as of that particular night. As for the dark skin, while it matches, so might have any number of other peoples', and I think there's a bit of profiling going on in that regard.

In every picture I've seen of AB, including the party video that SpiritYellow produced, AB is wearing Polo-type shirts.

I meant to say 'rounded' sideburns, and pointed cheeks.

Again, I am refamiliarizing myself with the details.

AB very much fits the 'mm' description, IMO

 

[Ros]

I never said Diekhoff was in charge of the IUPD.

When the subject first came up about a possible LE cover-up, there were rumors of a cop car seen pulling out of the waffle place around the time Lauren supposedly left JRs. Also rumors of a homeless man, Tallboy, hearing a scream around that time, and then rumors that he disappeared, and also another homeless man, Roaddog?, being found in a dumpster behind a steak house.

The LE cover-up theory has been around from the beginning...

I thought that both Road Dog and Tallboy died under mysterious circumstances shortly after Lauren disappeared. Do you have a link for Tallboy disappearing? Because they were both homeless and died (or one died and one disappeared) about the same time, people got them mixed up. CJ claimed that it was Tallboy who heard the scream. I think that both deaths were reported at the time, but I can no longer find the links. There was never any follow-up about cause of death as far as I know.

A reporter from the H-T walked the area with the homeless man and should know where the scream originated.

Bloomington has a fairly large homeless population. Anyone is allowed to come into the Indiana Memorial Union and stay as long they want as long as they do not cause any trouble, but only IU students are allowed to sleep on the couches.

 

[jjenny]

So was JR the only one who voluntarily talked to BPD?

I don't think so.

 

[British]

With regards to a possible LE cover-up, I would like to say that much of that theory was coming from ChickJustin, and she pushed the theory aggressively on Gatto's blog, JRNTT, her own blog and elsewhere.

...........................................................................................

That being said, Chick Justin was making some rather convincing points before she was taken away by LE.

What were the "convincing points" for LE cover up? That never made any sense whatsoever. It is a ridiculous theory.

 

[Jupiter812]

Has anyone, (JR or MB specifically) ever stated what LS's plan was to gain entry back into Smallwood when she got back there?
Why would she walk back to Smallwood in the pre-dawn hours barefoot with no phone and no keys and no way to get into her building?

When I first became involved the story was not so much that she wanted to go back to Smallwood but the boys had kicked her out. This is how LE interpreted it. One could certainly say this is what MB did.

Isn't it interesting how the story did a 180 with JR's storyline?

 

[jjenny]

JR essentially alibis both MB and CR. If JR says he watched LS leave, it appears to me that both MB and CR are off the hook. I don't see any reason for JR to put himself as the last known person to have seen her, if it wasn't the case.

 

[Jupiter812]

From mycase.in.gov AB's description is 5'11" and 120 lb. That may be the height and weight on his driver's license before the freshman 15 or more.

I've seen him in person. I think you are right about the additional 15 pounds, geesh, 120 is a rail. If I were a witness I would say he is 6' or 6'1" and definitely lanky but closer to 145.

Just want to add that I'm a terrible judge of weight. Having a starting point of 120 and adding an inch or two is how I came up with 145. If I were a witness I don't know what I would give for weight but it would not be accurate.

 

[Jupiter812]

Here is the witness quote from TG.

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...n-spierer-mystery-encounter-with-unknown-man/

The witness describes the mystery man as dark-skinned, about 5 feet, nine inches, 160 pounds, defined facial bone-structure and pointed, thin, rounded sideburns. She says he was wearing a polo-style shirt.

FWIW according to mycase CR is 6' 0", 155 lbs. He definitely has defined facial structure. Sideburns, I don't get. He wore a polo shirt in the news footage where he's walking out of the police station. Dark-skinned--what does this mean? Tanned? Black? Hispanic? Middle Eastern?

 

[British]

JR essentially alibis both MB and CR. If JR says he watched LS leave, it appears to me that both MB and CR are off the hook. I don't see any reason for JR to put himself as the last known person to have seen her, if it wasn't the case.

Yes, there could be. If he was covering for someone else, he might have felt "comfortable" doing it as he might not have been directly responsible for anything. Simply, he might be covering for a friend.

 

[ktgirl]

The developments in Mickey Shunick's disappearance have made me rethink this case and others. A lot of people were speculating in the very beginning that the guy who she had hung out with that night who said she cycled home from his house at 2am was involved. He made a video that was posted online asking for help finding her and people were dissecting it bit by bit.

This all stopped after a few days later, video footage of Mickey cycling home past a city government building was released, along with footage of the white truck following her that was ultimately IDed as her killer's truck. Had it not been for the video being viewed early and released, I think a lot of people would be analyzing everything her friend did or said (none of it as shady as what these guys' actions following LS's disappearance) and pointing the finger at him.

It does give me pause to think that maybe (just maybe) LS did somehow leave on her own and was abducted by a stranger/sexual predator. I can't write it off completely even if it seems unlikely due to some people's actions or lack of actions.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

When I first became involved the story was not so much that she wanted to go back to Smallwood but the boys had kicked her out. This is how LE interpreted it. One could certainly say this is what MB did.

Isn't it interesting how the story did a 180 with JR's storyline?

Yes, it is. Also, waaay back in the very first few days or week or so, it was being reported (that LE stated) "although her friends indicated they had all been drinking earlier, no one had anything to drink for several hours when she left". I guess my thinking has always been that if they lied about that, then maybe they lied about her having her key card, and about anything/everything else after she left Smallwood with CR.

 

[British]

The developments in Mickey Shunick's disappearance have made me rethink this case and others. A lot of people were speculating in the very beginning that the guy who she had hung out with that night who said she cycled home from his house at 2am was involved. He made a video that was posted online asking for help finding her and people were dissecting it bit by bit.

This all stopped after a few days later, video footage of Mickey cycling home past a city government building was released, along with footage of the white truck following her that was ultimately IDed as her killer's truck. Had it not been for the video being viewed early and released, I think a lot of people would be analyzing everything her friend did or said (none of it as shady as what these guys' actions following LS's disappearance) and pointing the finger at him.

It does give me pause to think that maybe (just maybe) LS did somehow leave on her own and was abducted by a stranger/sexual predator. I can't write it off completely even if it seems unlikely due to some people's actions or lack of actions.

Good points. That is certainly a real possibility. What makes LS's case slightly different in my opinion is that one of the POIs has claimed "memory loss" and has refused to talk to her parents and LE (from what I understood). That is not the behavior of someone who has nothing to hide and wants to help.

 

[Ros]

The developments in Mickey Shunick's disappearance have made me rethink this case and others. A lot of people were speculating in the very beginning that the guy who she had hung out with that night who said she cycled home from his house at 2am was involved. He made a video that was posted online asking for help finding her and people were dissecting it bit by bit.

This all stopped after a few days later, video footage of Mickey cycling home past a city government building was released, along with footage of the white truck following her that was ultimately IDed as her killer's truck. Had it not been for the video being viewed early and released, I think a lot of people would be analyzing everything her friend did or said (none of it as shady as what these guys' actions following LS's disappearance) and pointing the finger at him.

It does give me pause to think that maybe (just maybe) LS did somehow leave on her own and was abducted by a stranger/sexual predator. I can't write it off completely even if it seems unlikely due to some people's actions or lack of actions.

Unfortunately, there are few rumors that would support the random abduction theory and they are in conflict. I am not aware of any established facts that have been in MSM other than that a homeless man said he heard a woman scream at 4:35 a.m. west of where LS was last seen.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/09/news.qp-6103048.sto

1. Rumor: The dog(s) lost her scent in the gravel lot south of 5N. A bloodhound traced her sent to JW's back door.

2. Rumor: The homeless man really heard the scream north of where she was last seen, i.e. near the adult bookstore at 1013 N college, which is next door to the Sunflower II apartments at 1015 N. College (14th and College). Note: LS would have had to have turned left (north, opposite direction from Smallwood) and cross the railroad tracks to get to this area. Yes, she might have gotten confused, but it seems that she would have realized her mistake when she got to the railroad tracks.

3. Rumor: Her fake ID was found on N. Walnut (she was leaving "bread crumbs" perhaps?)

However, there are other unsolved crimes in Bloomington (the death of Crystal Grubb for example) and other missing persons with Bloomington connections (Margaret Hayes, Frank Joseph Giza, Kate McGrayel). So a random abduction is possible.

I have seen maps showing locations of video cameras south of 5N. I don't know if there are any north or west of 5N on College. I would hope that LE checked them if there are.

Did JR actually say that she turned south on College? Which direction was she traveling on 11th. I have assumed she walked east on 11th and he saw her turn south on College.

 

[IUGrad84]

Good points. That is certainly a real possibility. What makes LS's case slightly different in my opinion is that one of the POIs has claimed "memory loss" and has refused to talk to her parents and LE (from what I understood). That is not the behavior of someone who has nothing to hide and wants to help.

Very much agree. Also, Mickey's friend cooperated fully with LE (provided full access - home, car, phone) and participated in the search efforts.

JMO, but a random abduction/predator in this case seems unlikely with such a minuscule window of opportunity. When I come across stories like the one out of Minnesota where a 19 yr-old falls out of a party bus and read how her friends reacted: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/16/teen-falls-out-party-bus-onto-highway-nobody-on-board-calls-11/?intcmp=trending#ixzz23nXf8jI6, it just reinforces that young adults are self-indulgent, immature, and can make some really poor decisions when presented with a crisis.

 

[Blythe]

In answer to FriendSara upthread, my interest in this case has been the appalling possibility that "friends let friends die drunk". I don't mean this exactly literally. IUGrad84 makes the point well.

 

[Jupiter812]

The developments in Mickey Shunick's disappearance have made me rethink this case and others. A lot of people were speculating in the very beginning that the guy who she had hung out with that night who said she cycled home from his house at 2am was involved. He made a video that was posted online asking for help finding her and people were dissecting it bit by bit.

This all stopped after a few days later, video footage of Mickey cycling home past a city government building was released, along with footage of the white truck following her that was ultimately IDed as her killer's truck. Had it not been for the video being viewed early and released, I think a lot of people would be analyzing everything her friend did or said (none of it as shady as what these guys' actions following LS's disappearance) and pointing the finger at him.

It does give me pause to think that maybe (just maybe) LS did somehow leave on her own and was abducted by a stranger/sexual predator. I can't write it off completely even if it seems unlikely due to some people's actions or lack of actions.

Good post. I also think it is just as likely, perhaps even more so, that she was picked up by someone who (1) parties in the same larger social circle; (2) lives or hangs out in the general vicinity; (3) works at Sports, Smallwood, or a nearby business.