IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[Jacobite]

Does this story connect to the mystery witness who heard a scream at 4:30 AM?
http://www.wbiw.com/local/archives/2009/02/stories_differ_greatly_in_case.php

 

[Jupiter812]

Good points. That is certainly a real possibility. What makes LS's case slightly different in my opinion is that one of the POIs has claimed "memory loss" and has refused to talk to her parents and LE (from what I understood). That is not the behavior of someone who has nothing to hide and wants to help.

He has not talked with her parents but he talked with LE about a week after she disappeared. And it's been reported that he let them search his car and cell phone.

IMO it would be much easier to believe if, from the get go, they simply said he blacked out (as from drinking and drugs) rather than calling it amnesia or memory loss. However, it could be entirely true that he suffers amnesia from the punch. If innocent, what a nebulous place for him to be in his head. :sick:

 

[British]

He has not talked with her parents but he talked with LE about a week after she disappeared. And it's been reported that he let them search his car and cell phone.

IMO it would be much easier to believe if, from the get go, they simply said he blacked out (as from drinking and drugs) rather than calling it amnesia or memory loss. However, it could be entirely true that he suffers amnesia from the punch. If innocent, what a nebulous place for him to be in his head. :sick:

Hi, where did you see that he talked to LE? Have a link? My understanding is that he met in the presence of his lawyer with LE to give a DNA sample. That does not mean he talked to LE really.

 

[Jacobite]

Hi, where did you see that he talked to LE? Have a link? My understanding is that he met in the presence of his lawyer with LE to give a DNA sample. That does not mean he talked to LE really.

The most valuable thing that belongs to a human being is their name. Why won't these guys speak up and clear their names if innocent?

 

[sweet_blush]

Does this story connect to the mystery witness who heard a scream at 4:30 AM?
http://www.wbiw.com/local/archives/2009/02/stories_differ_greatly_in_case.php

Franklin is indeed 'Tallboy', though I don't know how or if that story is connected.

 

[Jupiter812]

Hi, where did you see that he talked to LE? Have a link? My understanding is that he met in the presence of his lawyer with LE to give a DNA sample. That does not mean he talked to LE really.

Fair call. The last I recall reading was that Salzmann would not in fact confirm whether CR submitted DNA even tho it was widely reported that he had. You'd think if CR had it would be in his favor to acknowledge and confirm. Sooo I figured if he didn't give DNA at police station they talked.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Good post. I also think it is just as likely, perhaps even more so, that she was picked up by someone who (1) parties in the same larger social circle; (2) lives or hangs out in the general vicinity; (3) works at Sports, Smallwood, or a nearby business.

I think you are exactly right about this. I think she either never left CR, JR, MB, and DB or she did and ran into someone else exactly like you are are describing. I suppose it's possible that JR is telling an accurate story and in the limited few minutes between her rounding the corner and the next security camera that she never reached that a stranger/predator swooped in and grabbed her and sped away taking a route in and out of the area that avoided capture on any of the security cameras. Possible, but in my opinion highly, highly unlikely.
Whatever has happened to LS, I don't think it was an accidental O.D. - it may not have even been the intention to cause her to death but it was, in my opinion, a sexual assault that led to her death. I don't think these college boys would try to cover up an accidental O.D. but I don't put a sexual assault of a incoherent pretty co-ed beyond these frat boys at all....in fact, it's so likely it's practically become a stereotype of the privileged, white, frat boy. The term "date rape" was born out of frat houses and these exact kinds of situations; while I don't for one second think any of them would even be all that concerned about being in trouble if LS O.D.'d I do think they would cover up and cover for each other for the gang rape and subsequent death of a drugged and drunk co-ed. The way I'm looking at it is that CR had invested himself in LS on this night. He put in the time and he wanted a pay off. CR could have been with his boys watching the B-Ball game this night but instead he was out with LS and he probably spend a wallet full of money, baby sat the drunk chick (obnoxious and loud and can not be enjoyable) and he has literally carted her around doing whatever she wanted to do, going to all of the random places, and then he even took a punch in the face. In my opinion, "he did it all for the nookie". I don't think that JR or MB would cover for CR in this situation. This isn't like cheating on an exam or term paper selling, or even like selling and/or sniffing the occasional 8-ball! No, this is Rape and Murder and none of them nor would most sane people, risk his own precious *advertiser censored* if he didn't consider himself directly involved somehow. If only one of them was responsible for what became of LS, she would have been found inside of 2 weeks. We have to remember, these guys are most likely huge cads, just total D-bags. These guys are the real life characters that James Spader always played in John Hughes 80's movies. They are privileged, they are spoiled, they are selfish and self centered and they are definitely not going to sacrifice themselves for their college buddy. Not a chance in hell, but most importantly, it's these guys who have given statements to the police that have changed at least once, their behavior and statements are indicative of a person who is attempting to withhold information or conceal the truth. But, all of this is only my opinion.
Coincidentally, I'm unsure about CR but from what I have read about JR, MB, and DB, they are all on their way to lucrative nepotism propelled careers that will likely see them become higher level executives before the age of 30. Not surprisingly, what do we know about C.E.O.'s? They are 4 times as likely to be a psychopath. Not just my opinion: http://www.thestar.com/business/art...he-incidence-of-psychopathy-as-the-rest-of-us

 

[British]

Fair call. The last I recall reading was that Salzmann would not in fact confirm whether CR submitted DNA even tho it was widely reported that he had. You'd think if CR had it would be in his favor to acknowledge and confirm. Sooo I figured if he didn't give DNA at police station they talked.

I think it was the other way around. Salzmann confirmed that he gave DNA. But I have never seen that he agreed to talk to the police and talked to them. And the question remains, if so, why? Why not talk to the police? Why not talk to the parents of LS? Even in the presence of his lawyer.

 

[ellehill]

I think it was the other way around. Salzmann confirmed that he gave DNA. But I have never seen that he agreed to talk to the police and talked to them. And the question remains, if so, why? Why not talk to the police? Why not talk to the parents of LS? Even in the presence of his lawyer.

Per Salzmann his client "would continue" to cooperate with investigators, link below...

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...r-on-night-she-disappeared-submits-dna-sample

 

[Ros]

Franklin is indeed 'Tallboy', though I don't know how or if that story is connected.

Road Dog was Franklin Lee Crawford and he couldn't walk. Tallboy apparently could. Rika S. Kobayashi tweeted that they were different persons. Moderator, please delete Twitter links if inappropriate for this forum.

https://twitter.com/Rika_Kobayashi/status/97818371827048448
https://twitter.com/Rika_Kobayashi/status/97181817102282752

There were comments on TG's blog to the effect that Road Dog and Tallboy were the same person and that CJ was calling Road Dog Tallboy.

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011/07/10/the-smallwood-ad-thats-been-pulled/

I tend to be somewhat skeptical of information coming from CJ until it has been confirmed by someone else. However, I had not previously noticed her comment in the H-T dated August 3, 2011: 10:49 pm (see link below) that indicates if the scream came from Lauren, she would have gone down the alley rather than College. Would that be consistent with the scent trail ending at the gravel lot?

http://www.bloomingtonbrides.com/st...MS8wOC8wMy9uZXdzLnFwLTI0Nzc0Njguc3Rv&start=20

 

[sweet_blush]

Road Dog was Franklin Lee Crawford and he couldn't walk. Tallboy apparently could

I still get the two confused, but Road Dog is the homeless man in a wheelchair who was found behind the Steakhouse (Ponderosa?).

'Tallboy' is the homeless man who allegedly heard the scream, and he plain disappeared. CJ was friends with Tallboy and she even had him staying at her place for a while.

CJ is certainly all over the map with her theories, but she insists that there is a 'seedy underbelly' in Bloomington at play here.

 

[doubtingthomas]

I would like to throw out another theory. MB has now said that LS left and he went upstairs. I assume to go to bed.

What if she did go to JR's and left as he said. He watches her walk to the corner and goes back into his apt.

CR gets up and realizes LS is gone. MB has gone to his room so he would not know if CR left. So, CR goes looking for her. He sees her walking to the corner. There is an ally behind the dr's office that leads to the gravel area. He either follows her or calls out for her and she goes back to the area behind 5 North. JR has gone back in his apt so he would not see or hear CR.

Now the following:
1). CR wants her to come back; she doesn't want to; scuffle happens, she drops her key card (JR said she had it with her)
2). Could this be the place the dog lost her scent.
3). Would this be about the time the homeless man heard a scream.

Now the million dollar question. If all of this could have happened, how did he get her out of there? Wanted to hear why or why not this could or could not happen.

This could answer why some want to know how JR could cover for CR. He would not be because he didn't know that it happened.

Could also answer why CR is not talking to anyone except attorney.

 

[Jupiter812]

I think it was the other way around. Salzmann confirmed that he gave DNA. But I have never seen that he agreed to talk to the police and talked to them. And the question remains, if so, why? Why not talk to the police? Why not talk to the parents of LS? Even in the presence of his lawyer.

https://twitter.com/idsnews/statuses/79307684947562496


http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/10/news.720766.sto

At 4 p.m. Friday, Salzmann said he and Rossman had just finished with another meeting with Bloomington police. “We have just left the police station and are cooperating in any way we can in giving whatever statements or tests they need from us,” Salzmann said by phone.

Other media outlets have reported that Rossman has given police a DNA sample. Salzmann did not confirm that DNA was given to police, and said that some reports out of the New York area about DNA evidence are false.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06...rer-missing-college-student-from-westchester/

However, according to a published report, Rossman’s lawyer, Carl Salzmann, has not confirmed whether a DNA sample was given. He would only confirm that his client is cooperating with authorities without getting into the specifics.

 

[Ros]

I would like to throw out another theory. MB has now said that LS left and he went upstairs. I assume to go to bed.

What if she did go to JR's and left as he said. He watches her walk to the corner and goes back into his apt.

CR gets up and realizes LS is gone. MB has gone to his room so he would not know if CR left. So, CR goes looking for her. He sees her walking to the corner. There is an ally behind the dr's office that leads to the gravel area. He either follows her or calls out for her and she goes back to the area behind 5 North. JR has gone back in his apt so he would not see or hear CR.

Now the following:
1). CR wants her to come back; she doesn't want to; scuffle happens, she drops her key card (JR said she had it with her)
2). Could this be the place the dog lost her scent.
3). Would this be about the time the homeless man heard a scream.

Now the million dollar question. If all of this could have happened, how did he get her out of there? Wanted to hear why or why not this could or could not happen.

This could answer why some want to know how JR could cover for CR. He would not be because he didn't know that it happened.

Could also answer why CR is not talking to anyone except attorney.

By June 10, CR's car had been searched and his phone and credit cards checked. One would think that if any evidence had been found, his status would have changed to suspect.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

Was her keycard to Smallwood found? What I remember was that a small purple cardcase/purse and a gold key were found before 3 a.m. so they had to have been dropped shortly after she was last seen on video. See post from mrsu at this link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139717&page=3
As far as I know, the contents of the purse/cardcase have not been released.

 

[Jupiter812]

I know for a fact that certain people like to insert themselves, sometimes even telling outright lies, into situations of high drama, such as those involving crimes, disappearances, deaths. I'm sure psychologists can explain why but I see it as a way to get attention and to participate from a place of authority especially if one has information LE does not have. This is what I believe happened with the homeless person who said he heard her scream.

Given her reported condition I don't think Lauren could scream loud enough for someone to hear her several blocks away. And as someone asked a long time ago, "How does a homeless person know what time it is, does he wear a watch?" My answer is he knows because the time of her last sighting was reported as 4:30. It's that simple.

 

[Jacobite]

I know for a fact that certain people like to insert themselves, sometimes even telling outright lies, into situations of high drama, such as those involving crimes, disappearances, deaths. I'm sure psychologists can explain why but I see it as a way to get attention and to participate from a place of authority especially if one has information LE does not have. This is what I believe happened with the homeless person who said he heard her scream.

Given her reported condition I don't think Lauren could scream loud enough for someone to hear her several blocks away. And as someone asked a long time ago, "How does a homeless person know what time it is, does he wear a watch?" My answer is he knows because the time of her last sighting was reported as 4:30. It's that simple.

I may doubt his account as well. However, we can't confirm anything because Franklin Crawford died on 10 June, 2011.

 

[Jacobite]

I would like to throw out another theory. MB has now said that LS left and he went upstairs. I assume to go to bed.

What if she did go to JR's and left as he said. He watches her walk to the corner and goes back into his apt.

CR gets up and realizes LS is gone. MB has gone to his room so he would not know if CR left. So, CR goes looking for her. He sees her walking to the corner. There is an ally behind the dr's office that leads to the gravel area. He either follows her or calls out for her and she goes back to the area behind 5 North. JR has gone back in his apt so he would not see or hear CR.

Now the following:
1). CR wants her to come back; she doesn't want to; scuffle happens, she drops her key card (JR said she had it with her)
2). Could this be the place the dog lost her scent.
3). Would this be about the time the homeless man heard a scream.

Now the million dollar question. If all of this could have happened, how did he get her out of there? Wanted to hear why or why not this could or could not happen.

This could answer why some want to know how JR could cover for CR. He would not be because he didn't know that it happened.

Could also answer why CR is not talking to anyone except attorney.

I know where the tracking dog lost a scent. But, I am not sure of the trail.
Was it from Smallwodl? Or, was it from 5 N?

 

[sweet_blush]

I may doubt his account as well. However, we can't confirm anything because Franklin Crawford died on 10 June, 2011.

Tallboy is the homeless man who supposedly heard the scream, and last I heard, he was simply missing.

He is a different person than 'Road Dog', the other homeless man, who is confirmed deceased.

 

[Ros]

I know for a fact that certain people like to insert themselves, sometimes even telling outright lies, into situations of high drama, such as those involving crimes, disappearances, deaths. I'm sure psychologists can explain why but I see it as a way to get attention and to participate from a place of authority especially if one has information LE does not have. This is what I believe happened with the homeless person who said he heard her scream.

Given her reported condition I don't think Lauren could scream loud enough for someone to hear her several blocks away. And as someone asked a long time ago, "How does a homeless person know what time it is, does he wear a watch?" My answer is he knows because the time of her last sighting was reported as 4:30. It's that simple.

It is impossible to know whether the scream really happened or not, and we have only CJ's word that Tallboy wore a watch. See CJ's post at Thursday, August 4, 2011: 4:03 pm at this link:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?cmtus=chickjustin

 

[sweet_blush]

It is impossible to know whether the scream really happened or not, and we have only CJ's word that Tallboy wore a watch. See CJ's post at Thursday, August 4, 2011: 4:03 pm at this link:

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/comments/cmt.php?cmtus=chickjustin

I feel uncomfortable whenever talking about CJ or a LE conspiracy.

I firmly believe the answers to this puzzle are to be found somewhere between 5. North and 10th and College.