IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[VeryVeritas]

I thought that both Road Dog and Tallboy died under mysterious circumstances shortly after Lauren disappeared. Do you have a link for Tallboy disappearing? Because they were both homeless and died (or one died and one disappeared) about the same time, people got them mixed up. CJ claimed that it was Tallboy who heard the scream. I think that both deaths were reported at the time, but I can no longer find the links. There was never any follow-up about cause of death as far as I know.

A reporter from the H-T walked the area with the homeless man and should know where the scream originated.

Bloomington has a fairly large homeless population. Anyone is allowed to come into the Indiana Memorial Union and stay as long they want as long as they do not cause any trouble, but only IU students are allowed to sleep on the couches.

So what's the theory here, that the LE (perhaps the one leaving the Waffe House ) picked up LS, had his way with her, she screams and a homeless guy hears it and another sees it... this person disappears LS, then kills the homeless people to cover up tracks?

 

[VeryVeritas]

JR essentially alibis both MB and CR. If JR says he watched LS leave, it appears to me that both MB and CR are off the hook. I don't see any reason for JR to put himself as the last known person to have seen her, if it wasn't the case.

The reason JR would do such a thing is deflect attention from what really happened. By MB calling him at 3:30 (assuming this is verifiable) JR could not remove himself from the situation. By her having partied at his place earlier, he could not remove himself. By him disclosing that he saw her serious injuries, he appears to have seen her after the 3:00am time period. At least once such reason for misdirection is that someone else was tasked with bringing her home, and JR is trying to protect that person. There are many other possibilities.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I've seen him in person. I think you are right about the additional 15 pounds, geesh, 120 is a rail. If I were a witness I would say he is 6' or 6'1" and definitely lanky but closer to 145.

Just want to add that I'm a terrible judge of weight. Having a starting point of 120 and adding an inch or two is how I came up with 145. If I were a witness I don't know what I would give for weight but it would not be accurate.

And how tall would you say this person was if they had 100 lbs slumped over their shoulder? When I carry 100lbs on my back, my knees bend and I lean forward and my legs move apart a little. This causes me to appear a couple inches shorter. Think about it.

 

[VeryVeritas]

FWIW according to mycase CR is 6' 0", 155 lbs. He definitely has defined facial structure. Sideburns, I don't get. He wore a polo shirt in the news footage where he's walking out of the police station. Dark-skinned--what does this mean? Tanned? Black? Hispanic? Middle Eastern?

Really, if the witness saw these details she should be able to make a positive ID on these known people who could fit the description.

 

[Ros]

Unless LE finds a body, it will be almost impossible to press charges against anyone. No evidence of a crime. Just a missing person. However, I am wondering if LS's family will file a civil lawsuit. In such a case, some of the PIs would be probably forced to talk during depositions.

The family of Molly Dattilo received a mult-million dollar judgment against the men who were suspected of causing her disappearance, but, as far as I know, they never received the answers they were seeking, not even what became of her body.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-judge-orders-men-to-pay-fam
ily-111610,0,461158.story

 

[Ros]

So what's the theory here, that the LE (perhaps the one leaving the Waffle House ) picked up LS, had his way with her, she screams and a homeless guy hears it and another sees it... this person disappears LS,then kills the homeless people to cover up tracks?

This is basically the theory proposed by a person who is very bright but allegedly suffers from a form of mental illness that causes delusional thinking.

 

[VeryVeritas]

By June 10, CR's car had been searched and his phone and credit cards checked. One would think that if any evidence had been found, his status would have changed to suspect.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-09-missing-indiana-student_n.htm

Was her keycard to Smallwood found? What I remember was that a small purple cardcase/purse and a gold key were found before 3 a.m. so they had to have been dropped shortly after she was last seen on video. See post from mrsu at this link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139717&page=3
As far as I know, the contents of the purse/cardcase have not been released.

While it seems possible that CR got up and went out, it does not seem possible that LS got up and went out.

Yet, think CR should be included in the 3:38 am line up. And then who does CR know at 10th and N. College building?? Does anyone know how trash is handled at 10th and N. College building? Some buildings of that kind have compacting systems.

Dogs may have lost scent because she was being carried?

 

[VeryVeritas]

I know for a fact that certain people like to insert themselves, sometimes even telling outright lies, into situations of high drama, such as those involving crimes, disappearances, deaths. I'm sure psychologists can explain why but I see it as a way to get attention and to participate from a place of authority especially if one has information LE does not have. This is what I believe happened with the homeless person who said he heard her scream.

Given her reported condition I don't think Lauren could scream loud enough for someone to hear her several blocks away. And as someone asked a long time ago, "How does a homeless person know what time it is, does he wear a watch?" My answer is he knows because the time of her last sighting was reported as 4:30. It's that simple.

At the same time Jupiter you have to admit that in this short span of time

1) LS vanishes
2) A Security guy kills himself
3) A homeless guy vanishes and another is found dead in a dumpster.

Is this like a regular monthly occurrence in this small stretch of real estate? This kind of statistic is more in line hot spots in Chicago or Detroit.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I feel uncomfortable whenever talking about CJ or a LE conspiracy.

I firmly believe the answers to this puzzle are to be found somewhere between 5. North and 10th and College.

I don't get this. Is not this whole business uncomfortable? We are talking about people and LE si made up of people just like everyone else. People did this. No one should hide behind a sacred veil of immunity. Let the theories roll and they can be disproven or backed up with facts and evidence. There are rotten LE people and I've seen it with my own eyes. So, no sacred cows please. Just use logic. At the same time, I've seen not one shred of evidence to link LE to Lauren's disappearance. IF there is some, would like to see someone make a case for it.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I don't think there was any LE conspiracy either, but I don't think we can rule out an abduction by an unknown person after she left 5N.

Can you prove she ever left 5N? What evidence is there that she left 5N on her own unescorted?

Further, there is no hard evidence that Lauren was ever conscious again after falling flat on her face upon exiting the alley.

 

[VeryVeritas]

This is basically the theory proposed by a person who is very bright but allegedly suffers from a form of mental illness that causes delusional thinking.

Well history is full of delusional people who had something right. It doesn't matter to me where a theory comes from, put it through the logic mill and see what happens.

 

[Ros]

Can you prove she ever left 5N? What evidence is there that she left 5N on her own unescorted?

Further, there is no hard evidence that Lauren was ever conscious again after falling flat on her face upon exiting the alley.

No, but 5N has been searched and she's not there, so she must have either left under her own power or someone removed her, dead or alive. My point is that we cannot, at this time, eliminate any of these possibilities. We don't even know if there is no evidence for something or if there is evidence that has not been released by LE.

 

[Jupiter812]

At the same time Jupiter you have to admit that in this short span of time

1) LS vanishes
2) A Security guy kills himself
3) A homeless guy vanishes and another is found dead in a dumpster.

Is this like a regular monthly occurrence in this small stretch of real estate? This kind of statistic is more in line hot spots in Chicago or Detroit.

It still does not mean the events are linked. Most mornings when I read the headlines of the local newspaper, I barely recognize my community. The drama has not only intensified, it has multiplied. I thought the IU policeman shot himself in the stadium parking lot. I don't consider that the same real estate.

 

[Jupiter812]

Okay, now I am truly convinced. Officer Lerg killed himself on May 28, six days before Lauren disappeared. Enough already.

 

[sweet_blush]

So what's the theory here, that the LE (perhaps the one leaving the Waffe House ) picked up LS, had his way with her, she screams and a homeless guy hears it and another sees it... this person disappears LS, then kills the homeless people to cover up tracks?

That is one of the LE cover-up theories.

Another one is that an element of BPD is involved in a huge DD operation that profits immensely from IU students. There were rumors that a CI was involved (I believe this story was first delivered by G. Rivera) in Lauren's disappearance.

Interestingly, a person claiming to be an IU student stated on PT that ZO is the biggest dealer of drugs on the IU campus esp for substances besides marijuana.

This person told me that ZO's place was raided by DEA in 2010. However, ZO has no felony record that is accessible, causing for speculation that ZO made some sort of 'arrangement' with the DEA.

The person who told PT this, also was the first person to verify that ZO lived at 10th and College with AB as his roommate. This much turned out to be true, as far as I know, so I have believed this person.

Very much so.

 

[Blythe]

If the 3:30 call from MB to JR can be confirmed by LE....
Then you have the 3:38 siting in this extensive detail at 3:38 just north of 10th & North College building on North College, a difference of 8 minutes is about how long it would take someone to walk with someone slumped over them from 5N. So for example if MB called JR and said LS had vanished (as in one of the MB accounts) and explained the circumstances, JR would now have to explain why MB would call him.

At the same time, this kind of detailed description tells me that the eyewitness here should be able to make a postive ID from a photo, line up or witness stand.

It does seem also likely that if Lauren actually died or is totally passed out between 3:15 and 3:30 at CR/MB's MB panics and calls JR at 3:30, AND as was originally reported "other people were present", then this person could have been tasked with carting her off. (alive or dead, yet taking her home in that alive in that condition would be extremely negligent) She may have then died on the way back to SW, and this person did not want to be left having to explain when they had nothing to do with her demise. I could see someone saying to JR... hey... "I didn't give her anything, I'm not going down for this... I was just walking her home!" So, JR has to throw off the scent. This scenario is one that points back to the 10th and N. College building and parking garage. Personally I can remember being trusted with bringing drunk girls home alone while in College and was sober myself. Just was thinking what it would feel like if one suddenly died and yet I had nothing to do with the cause, except that perhaps I knew the people involved that may have caused it.

You would feel horrified. And you would have dialed 911.

 

[VeryVeritas]

JR, particularly, has established a reputation for being dishonest amongst many of his peers.

Even people who were defending him on PT were calling him 'soulless' and a 'good liar'.

Not one person who claimed to know him on PT was willing to vouch for his character.

He gained that reputation on his own doing...

Thanks for posting this. I became convinced JR is lying for many other reasons, it's very interesting to find that he is known to be a liar and apparently a sociopath. Is there anything else with a concrete basis to fill out a larger picture of someone with sociopathic tendencies?

 

[sweet_blush]

Is there anything else with a concrete basis to fill out a larger picture of someone with sociopathic tendencies?

I can't comment on that right now, but I wanted to add that at least two people who talked about JR on PT said something to the effect of, "there is no way JR had anything to do with this"...

And followed it up with something like, "there's no way JR could hide a body by himself"...

 

[VeryVeritas]

No, but 5N has been searched and she's not there, so she must have either left under her own power or someone removed her, dead or alive. My point is that we cannot, at this time, eliminate any of these possibilities. We don't even know if there is no evidence for something or if there is evidence that has not been released by LE.

Yes, I agree she is most likely removed from 5N, but I was not clear enough.
I meant to say do you have any evidence that she left 5N on her own as JR indicated, or simply left 5N at any time alive after that last fall captured on camera?

The only such "proof" is the word of MB and JR who have significant inconsistencies in their known or attributed statements. And today posted is that JR is known to be a liar. So seems we can hardly take what they have said at face value. I think there is no more reason to believe she walked out of 5N at 3:30 or 4:15 or any time in between, than if she grew wings and flew to the moon. There is nothing to back it up except the word of one guy who has a habit of lying and getting around the rules.

 

[Jupiter812]

Thanks for posting this. I became convinced JR is lying for many other reasons, it's very interesting to find that he is known to be a liar and apparently a sociopath. Is there anything else with a concrete basis to fill out a larger picture of someone with sociopathic tendencies?

What characteristics or behaviors make him a supposed sociopath? I don't view him as being cunning, charming, grandiose. Rather, I view him as rather awkward and insecure. Take for example the fact that his FB profile pic was not him but two tall, good-looking guys who looked mature, almost "men" instead of boys. Each had a good-looking, smiling gal on his arm. Then there is the moment he spoke from inside his vehicle to the tv reporter and in a soft-spoken voice commented to the effect that he talks to the Spierer's on a regular basis, which was so very wierd.

I'd like to add that I still believe he is capable of lying, and I believe it's possible that he may have dug himself in a hole unwittingly by saying she was there.