IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[Jacobite]

A sociopath must be caught red handed in the commission of a crime because they are charmers who can pass a lie detector with flying colors. A detective told me sociopaths can be spotted in many cases because they have whites under their eyeballs. If he's right, it appears Lauren was out with bad company.

 

[akh]

What I'm saying is the police can't round up all the PsOI and start questioning them night and day, holding them for hours, threatening them with charge after charge, etc. all in order to exert a confession because they have nothing but deadends otherwise.

If they have one or a group of connected individuals that have given truly inconsistent stories and that have circumstantial evidence linking them to her disappearance then allowing more pressure on that group is one thing.... But to pressure a large group of individuals when you know they aren't all guilty and you have nothing substantial on any of them but you're just going fishing is not right.

The only way all the mentioned PsOI could be connected to her disappearance would be a legal conspiracy.

 

[Blythe]

We have managed to thoroughly malign the character of JR and perhaps even attempt to diagnose him within the last few pages. Now why do you suppose DB would have gone into business with him in January 2012?

 

[akh]

What you are suggesting is that WS's has no business analyzing or speculating on this or any other case. Only LE should do it.

We are working with information that is known to us.
Provide better information and WS's will provide better analysis and insight.

Else you are saying "shut up". Well... I won't. But if you can provide more accurate information here on actual statements vs. heresay, it would be useful.

No, what I am saying is that people need to remain open-minded and not get too wrapped up into believing they KNOW what happened and have it all figured out. Speculating on various theories is one thing, but to close the door on anything but a pet theory based on the limited information that is available is another.

It becomes very easy to focus on a suspect or suspects/PSOI and start disregarding exculpatory evidence, alternate theories, and twisting and spinning statements to make them seemingly fit a preferred theory. Especially with all the time that has passed, the sloppy reporting, rumors, and the lack of official information.

When I hear people fixing guilt on someone because "they are lying", when further thought tells you we have no viable source to confirm that they are indeed lying, then that worries me somewhat.

 

[Jupiter812]

We have managed to thoroughly malign the character of JR and perhaps even attempt to diagnose him within the last few pages. Now why do you suppose DB would have gone into business with him in January 2012?

I'm not sure what you are saying but their business venture together was in the works pre-Lauren's disappearance if I recall correctly.

 

[Ros]

We have managed to thoroughly malign the character of JR and perhaps even attempt to diagnose him within the last few pages. Now why do you suppose DB would have gone into business with him in January 2012?

Because having such a person as a partner is good for business?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012...uctive-actions-and-why-dont-we-stop-them.html

 

[sweet_blush]

When I hear people fixing guilt on someone because "they are lying", when further thought tells you we have no viable source to confirm that they are indeed lying, then that worries me somewhat.

If they aren't lying than they should have no problem coming forward and disclosing every possible bit of information that could help put closure to this tragedy.

That is just what happens when you do hard drugs and drink liquor all night and a young lady that you are partying with goes missing. And then you lawyer-up and refuse to discuss it, or better yet, claim to have God-blessed amnesia.

You tend to garner a lot of suspiscion.

I have little sympathy for any POI in this case who puts protecting their public image over the welfare of a human being's life, and a family in desperate mourning, and entire communities who are impacted by this.

 

[Blythe]

I'm not sure what you are saying but their business venture together was in the works pre-Lauren's disappearance if I recall correctly.

I was trying to say that JR, despite being pronounced on WS as a "soulless' "lying" drug dealing sociopath has managed to move forward with his professional career and partnered with an individual who holds an above average resume. An individual, in fact, whom some commenters would like to link to LS's disappearance. Just a stray thought.
<modsnip>

 

[elmorejames]

We have managed to thoroughly malign the character of JR and perhaps even attempt to diagnose him within the last few pages. Now why do you suppose DB would have gone into business with him in January 2012?

Because he either thinks JR is innocent, no charges will be brought against him, or he is indebted to him and owes him this for some reason!

 

[ared684]

If they aren't lying than they should have no problem coming forward and disclosing every possible bit of information that could help put closure to this tragedy.

That is just what happens when you do hard drugs and drink liquor all night and a young lady that you are partying with goes missing. And then you lawyer-up and refuse to discuss it, or better yet, claim to have God-blessed amnesia.

.

The thing with their stories of that night, like you said under hard drugs and liquor, could very well be all they remember. Yes, the amnesia is incredibly conveinent but it's certainly likely as well. We know CR was drinking, we can speculate drugs were involved, we know he was punched in the jaw by ZO, and the PI's state that he went down on the tile floor "hard". I don't see how it's so unlikely he blacked out? Maybe it's a lie, maybe it's not.

I'm not saying that there's no chance the 5N boys are involved but I don't think we have enough evidence to say that the boys absolutely have more to tell. We have reporting, not depositions or police statements so we dont know how much they revealed. And rumors of one of the POIs being a liar is completely unsupported and sourced from 1-2 people. I would like to think that if the police were finding incompletes or holes in the stories that BPD would have been putting more pressure on them but I only see MSM doing so.

And in all of their cases, I would have lawyered up as well. I'm sure the minute these boys parents heard the police were questioning them as the last persons to see a young, missing college student that the parents themselves hired their sons lawyers.

Again, not saying there's no way these boys aren't involved, but it's important in a case like this to analyze both sides. Could they be guilty and why? Could they be innocent and why?

 

[sweet_blush]

I was trying to say that JR, despite being pronounced on WS as a "soulless' "lying" drug dealing sociopath has managed to move forward with his professional career and partnered with an individual who holds an above average resume. An individual, in fact, whom some commenters would like to link to LS's disappearance. Just a stray thought. And a reminder that what we pronounce here can sometimes be a little rancorous, biased and narrow. That type of thinking is not useful.

So you are saying that because JR got a good job with DB, that he must be innocent? Are you kidding?

I am fairly certain that both JR's and DB's parents both have plenty of connections in the business world to the point that neither of them will ever have trouble getting work, regardless of their reputation regarding Lauren's disappearance.

 

[sweet_blush]

The thing with their stories of that night, like you said under hard drugs and liquor, could very well be all they remember. Yes, the amnesia is incredibly conveinent but it's certainly likely as well... I don't see how it's so unlikely he blacked out? Maybe it's a lie, maybe it's not.

Well, you said it yourself even.

If he BLACKED OUT, why is he calling it amnesia? I could easily believe that CR blacked out. Easily.

I absolutley don't believe that he had a sudden convenient case of 'amnesia'. I think he has a penchant for lying and 'amnesia' sounded a lot better to him than 'blacked out', when being question by the authorities.

 

[Blythe]

So you are saying that because JR got a good job with DB, that he must be innocent? Are you kidding?

I am fairly certain that both JR's and DB's parents both have plenty of connections in the business world to the point that neither of them will ever have trouble getting work, regardless of their reputation regarding Lauren's disappearance.

I am saying this is Websleuths and not PT.

 

[bx2]

Over the past few days I've been re-listening to some of the news conferences that LE gave during the first few weeks, and I'm left wondering how much to really take as actual fact. I don't believe that they were trying to intentionally mislead, but I think there is a definite disconnect between the actual investigation and the briefings.

Lets take the white truck business. It is completely baffling to me on how it was bungled so badly. During the actual conference when the photographs were introduced, in response to a question on if the photos were taken from the same camera, JQ answers that he thinks they were. Um, JQ? It is completely obvious that they aren't, what are you looking at? Ok, maybe just some confusion on which actual pictures were being released, nbd. Why do you think the truck went around the block twice? Ok, sure, later we find out the timestamps were off, but um, one enormous elephant question here, why didn't you just watch the video from the same camera to confirm this?? You don't need to depend on timestamps to see a vehicle appear twice! Where would it possibly have disappeared on this 2nd time around?

Is the Lohud reported information on the 10th and College visit an intentional omission from the LE timeline of the night or were they still trying to gather info at that point? Remember we have been told that LS is on camera leaving Smallwood at 2:41 and is spotted on the camera to the 10th Street alley at 2:48. Is 7 minutes enough time for entering the apartment complex, slumping over on the steps, falling in the first alley, being carried, etc?

Again, I'm not trying to make the case that LE is giving bad info on purpose, and not even trying to say that they are doing a bad job, but I think the initial search operation is what we were being clued in on initially, and that the investigatory stuff was being held a lot closer even back then. Question everything.

 

[sweet_blush]

I am saying this is Websleuths and not PT.

you joined WS last summer, I am glad you feel comfortable to represent what WS is about so soon!

:rocker:

 

[akh]

Well, you said it yourself even.

If he BLACKED OUT, why is he calling it amnesia? I could easily believe that CR blacked out. Easily.

I absolutley don't believe that he had a sudden convenient case of 'amnesia'. I think he has a penchant for lying and 'amnesia' sounded a lot better to him than 'blacked out', when being question by the authorities.

Is he calling it amnesia?

At this point I don't know... Is there a blurb where he's answers a reporter's question by saying he had 'amnesia'?

Has LE or the PI's quoted a statement from him where he claims 'amnesia' specifically?

Or are you allowing a reporter, gossip, or an attorney to interpret what he said or meant and then assuming by that you can know exactly what CR's own words were as well as the context in which they were spoken?

 

[sweet_blush]

Is he calling it amnesia?

At this point I don't know... Is there a blurb where he's answers a reporter's question by saying he had 'amnesia'?

Has LE or the PI's quoted a statement from him where he claims 'amnesia' specifically?

His own lawyer Salzmann is claiming CR had 'amnesia'.

And CR certainly isn't denying it.

The main point, is he is hiding behind the story, IMO.

 

[akh]

The truck issue seems bungled. The only thing I can think of would be multiple investigators assigned to watch certain videos from selected cameras, make notes, and then ultimately compare notes. Maybe they saw the different timestamps on the notes and thought "AHA... circling the block" before anyone thought to wonder why it didn't appear twice in either camera's footage.

As for the timeline discrepancy not accounting for much time for a stop between Smallwood and 5N.... Maybe again it's a timestamp issue? If a timestamp was off by a scant 5 or 10 mins it could make a major difference in as far as what would be possible.

Over the past few days I've been re-listening to some of the news conferences that LE gave during the first few weeks, and I'm left wondering how much to really take as actual fact. I don't believe that they were trying to intentionally mislead, but I think there is a definite disconnect between the actual investigation and the briefings.

Lets take the white truck business. It is completely baffling to me on how it was bungled so badly. During the actual conference when the photographs were introduced, in response to a question on if the photos were taken from the same camera, JQ answers that he thinks they were. Um, JQ? It is completely obvious that they aren't, what are you looking at? Ok, maybe just some confusion on which actual pictures were being released, nbd. Why do you think the truck went around the block twice? Ok, sure, later we find out the timestamps were off, but um, one enormous elephant question here, why didn't you just watch the video from the same camera to confirm this?? You don't need to depend on timestamps to see a vehicle appear twice! Where would it possibly have disappeared on this 2nd time around?

Is the Lohud reported information on the 10th and College visit an intentional omission from the LE timeline of the night or were they still trying to gather info at that point? Remember we have been told that LS is on camera leaving Smallwood at 2:41 and is spotted on the camera to the 10th Street alley at 2:48. Is 7 minutes enough time for entering the apartment complex, slumping over on the steps, falling in the first alley, being carried, etc?

Again, I'm not trying to make the case that LE is giving bad info on purpose, and not even trying to say that they are doing a bad job, but I think the initial search operation is what we were being clued in on initially, and that the investigatory stuff was being held a lot closer even back then. Question everything.

 

[sweet_blush]

Or are you allowing a reporter, gossip, or an attorney to interpret what he said or meant and then assuming by that you can know exactly what CR's own words were as well as the context in which they were spoken?

Yeah, I only read about this and talked to countless people who have love for Lauren and want to see closure.

I do not claim to know what CR's or any other of the POIs exact words or actions were last summer. I'm just here stating my opinions, and trying to contribute some details, that's all

 

[aviatrix]

I am Jill-Late-In-The-Game and I know it is annoying, but tell me about the white truck. Does it look like the truck in the BS Lavergne case in Louisiana? We have photos of that truck which was a 2011 Ford Extended Cab dually. I believe. What did the DWT in this case look like? Who is the POI? Just wondering if the cases are related as we believe he killed another person in Texas and -- if that is the case-- he may have killed anyone in the U.S.