IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Jacobite]

Agreed. This has been my theory as of late, too -- that somehow, during the "walk" in the alley, LS fell down again and CR was too tired or inebriated to fuss with her anymore and left her (perhaps very near the dumpster just by happenstance).

Then maybe when he got home, he said something (likely very vague since he was allegedly pretty out of it) to MB, who then panicked and went to JR or even went out to the alley to check and found her passed out or expired. Maybe even he and JR looked together (pure speculation) and then were forced to make a plan of what to do next -- calls to DR and other dude were part of that.

Then, whatever happened next happened via the gravel lot (i remember reading somewhere that the scent ended there with one dog).

This would be one explanation for the seemingly lack of focus (re: dogs/scents) on 5N.

I think you are very warm. Now we must find her and who did it.

 

[VeryVeritas]

In addition to agreeing wth bx2's comments, I'd think the 5N residents had parking stickers providing them with access to the closer lots, hence the gravel lot served as overflow parking for guests. I realize 5N isn't university housing, but I'd think the 5N residents' vehicles would be registered.

If LS did pass out or OD on the way to 5N, would CR have put her down somewhere and left to get help? Or he could have taken her to 5N where she expired or was assaulted and then disposed of (horrible image).

I've noticed that there's a wooden fence around the dumpster. I wonder if it's possible that someone temporarily put her inside that, by the dumpster, hence a dog hit (???), and then moved her via car afterward.

Thanks for the details about the stickers. So that would mean that visitors would be more likely to park further away or on the main streets. Yes, my thoughts also about the fence around the dumpster. it would explain why the guys who saw the wallet and keys would not have seen her. CR with LS must have cleared the gravel lot within a few minutes. But she was totally unconscious. So, I'm seeing him pick her up and haul her over there. Where was CR's car parked that night? I have a feeling he may have been used to going that direction to enter 5N, rather than going straight up the alley. If remembering correctly, JR's place is closer to Morton and CR/MB's place is closer to the alley. (not sure about the entrances to 5N in relation to Morton or the Alley, maybe Morton is closer so that would make sense too?)

 

[VeryVeritas]

Hey all, I don't regularly post but I've had a few thoughts:

I've often wondered about the second phone call. It seems like it would certainly be important for a few reasons: a) it was someone who had been with Lauren earlier and the fact that whoever it was is characterized as "being with Lauren earlier" signifies that she actually did know the person and spent time with them (as opposed to simply being at the same place at the same time); b) it was a MALE (reoccurring theme throughout and her being inebriated and attractive shows how this might, might, MIGHT be a factor - I don't want to make any conclusions on that though); and c) JR knew this person and also knew him well enough to have his phone number. That actually should narrow down who it could have been significantly because BOTH Lauren and JR knew this person, this person was a male, and he was present earlier AND spent time with Lauren.

Personally, I think that points to CR or MB. DR was named as one of the two calls, so that would eliminate him. Although there were certainly other people present at the party, it seems like Lauren spent most of her time with CR. Any visitors that were visiting JR would, at that time, probably already be at JR's so there would be no need to call them.

I lean toward MB because he has been painted as being sober that night (working on his paper). This is one way that all of these boys could be involved because MB could have answered and dragged CR over to help if the call was really more along the lines of, "something is not right. there is bruising, she can't stand, what did she take, what did you guys do with her, etc. etc."

I also think MB should be looked at much more closely. His story is the one I have noticed as consistently changing and the fact that he was supposedly "sober" makes me wonder, of all of them, who was the one capable of actually pulling off something like this IF she was not abducted?

Regardless, others have pointed out she could have returned to CR & MB's. It is also possible that one or both of them could have seen her leave and followed her, even if it was initially meant to be an innocent, "are you okay?" and something happened.

Yeah, if this second call was back to CR OR MB, that would really point to JR making the call, not LS. If she just came from their place and had put CR to bed as MB explained, then calling either of them would not make sense. If it was to be believed that she would be calling them to retrieve her phone, then sure, why not just knock on their door? I do have a feeling that from what has been said about this call that it would point back to CR or MB, and that would mean it was JR calling. Further, I would think this actually points more squarely at CR. at 3:30 MB (who was still studying) called JR. This call is public information. Just 45 minutes later MB is sound asleep?
Yet, I do like your thinking about MB being the most sober. And true, while CR's story is the most obstructive, MB's has been the most squirrely.

 

[monkey222]

When MB turned his composition paper in in the am, was this a physically turned in project at an IU buildong?Or done online? Time left? Returned?

 

[LongTallTexan]

Wasn't the second call made to 'someone LS had been with earlier...at Smallwood'? I thought the statement included 'at SW'....anyone recall, can't find it? TIA

If that is the case, I do find it interesting that the persons name was omited in the statement while DR's was not.

With all due respect, at this point (18 months)....maybe more information released to the media/public would help with the case....

 

[imkeylime]

Wasn't the second call made to 'someone LS had been with earlier...at Smallwood'? I thought the statement included 'at SW'....anyone recall, can't find it? TIA

If that is the case, I do find it interesting that the persons name was omited in the statement while DR's was not.

With all due respect, at this point (18 months)....maybe more information released to the media/public would help with the case....

It does say that in the June 4, 2012, Lohud article: "In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood."

It also says MB said that LS thought she'd left her phone with DR, hence backing up the call to DR to some degree. I'm curious who the "male friend" in the second call could be. JW wasn't there ... and I believe I've read that she wasn't close to ZO. ???

It's interesting that the calls reflect attention back to SW. Not saying that's there an inaccuracy in the info about the calls, because it's obviously verifiable (unless the reporter stated it wrong).

And yes, releasing some more info seems like it could help.

 

[Snapfade]

There is some very plausible theories being posted here as of late.

There was talk of a sleeping bag missing or being carried out of 5
N.... I dont think it was talked about in MSM ,but does there seem to be any credibility to the story.
I could theorize using a sleeping bag for something as simple as thinking she is passed out , to the much more sinister if lauren was dead.

 

[Snapfade]

It does say that in the June 4, 2012, Lohud article: "In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood."

It also says MB said that LS thought she'd left her phone with DR, hence backing up the call to DR to some degree. I'm curious who the "male friend" in the second call could be. JW wasn't there ... and I believe I've read that she wasn't close to ZO. ???

It's interesting that the calls reflect attention back to SW. Not saying that's there an inaccuracy in the info about the calls, because it's obviously verifiable (unless the reporter stated it wrong).

And yes, releasing some more info seems like it could help.

Whoever the 2nd call was to, would have to been on Jr's contact list. If LS didnt remember happened to her face, I don't think she could have even remembered DR's number

 

[Snapfade]

One more point that ive not seen addressed....If LS thought DR had her cell phone, why would there be a meed for her to call him looking for it.

 

[Ros]

There is some very plausible theories being posted here as of late.

There was talk of a sleeping bag missing or being carried out of 5
N.... I don't think it was talked about in MSM ,but does there seem to be any credibility to the story.
I could theorize using a sleeping bag for something as simple as thinking she is passed out , to the much more sinister if Lauren was dead.

The reference to the sleeping bag was a post on PT by crashtestdummy on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:41 AM

No details were given and a few posts later it was considered to be nothing by "nans" or shenanigans.

 

[Ros]

One more point that ive not seen addressed....If LS thought DR had her cell phone, why would there be a meed for her to call him looking for it.

If she thought he might have it but she wasn't sure, she might call him to see if he had it or if he knew where it was. But if she thought he had her cell phone, why not call her own cell phone to get it to ring, hoping that the person who had it would answer and let her know where it was?

 

[Ros]

And yes, releasing some more info seems like it could help.

However, releasing more information could either make an innocent person the subject of a great deal of public speculation, or it could prejudice a jury.

 

[imkeylime]

However, releasing more information could either make an innocent person the subject of a great deal of public speculation, or it could prejudice a jury.

It's a balancing act, I'm sure. I hear you about making an innocent person the subject of public speculation. That happened during the Oakland County Child Killer case ... and to a deceased person who couldn't defend himself. So yes, there's much danger in that.

 

[LongTallTexan]

However, releasing more information could either make an innocent person the subject of a great deal of public speculation, or it could prejudice a jury.

True...however, for the innocent, the damage is likely already done. As far as the jury....hmmmm, if that's my daugher I have not given up hope unless there's proof she's dead, and then I would still need to find her....the jury would come second. JMOO.

 

[LongTallTexan]

If she thought he might have it but she wasn't sure, she might call him to see if he had it or if he knew where it was. But if she thought he had her cell phone, why not call her own cell phone to get it to ring, hoping that the person who had it would answer and let her know where it was?

Good point, that is often the first thing we do is call our own cell (when we're sober....

we have to keep reminding herself that we just don't know her mental capacity)....we know she was impaired, but I find it difficult to really speculate on her fine motor skills, gross motor skills and memory.

And for that matter, the boys of 5N....and their impairment v. abilities. Very frustrating.

 

[Ixchel13]

Thanks Jacobite. That link has an extra "http" though, here's the corrected address: http://www.wthr.com/story/19885850/lauren-spierers-mother-reaches-out-in-facebook-post

And CS's post:



http://www.findlauren.com/updates#announcements

I already got snipped for stating opinion as fact so I'll try again. I am from Bloomington and searched for Lauren all that summer. IMO, MOO, the friends were innocent. Yeah, I know, they are as sketchy as the day is long....lazy,
careless, self-centered and into drugs up to their eyebrows.
People are beginning to talk. I've heard from good friends of ZO and AB.
They are adamant that these two had nothing to do with LS' disappearance.
I know the intersection JR saw her at very well. IMO, he IS lyng, but only
about which way she turned (he said to the right towards SW).
If Lauren went straight through the intersection, instead of turning, and then jay-walked or crossed the street, she would be just a few feet from an alley that leads directly to the patio gate of a bar called House Bar, and IMO,
MOO, this is where she was headed. Right after myself and two other people brought attention to this spot, the bar closed, but then reopened 8 mos later.
I think, IMO, MOO, she was abducted from that alley, either by someone who saw her there, saw her approaching, or leaving. To say this place is a drug den that sometimes stays open all night would not be opinion stated as fact.
If this place is not shifty enough, it is surrounded by adult bookstores and a creepy lingerie modelling bar.
IMO, MOO, the friends were lying to protect this place because one or more of them hung out there, and as people have stated, there was serious partying going on.
Lauren leaving when she did at 12:30, going here and there as she did, looks like what it probably was-- IMO, her going to score. JR may have cut her off. and she decided to meet someone at House Bar. It is a very down low bar, hardly anyone knows about it, yet it is right around the corner, down a dark alley, from 5N.
IMO, MOO, I think whatever happened to her stems from heading to that place.

 

[AbbeyR]

People are beginning to talk.I've heard from good friends of ZO and AB.They are adamant that these two had nothing to do with LS' disappearance.

Haven't the friends of all of the POI been adamant from the beginning that none of them have to do with anything? Or did you mean people are beginning to talk about something else, like your theory about the House bar?

The fact that there are some sketchy places nearby raises some possibilities when you think of who may be lurking around in dark alleys, but there are a few things that make me doubt this scenario. First, given the descriptions of Lauren's condition, even by the POI themselves, it sounds pretty unlikely that she could walk to the corner, let alone arrange to meet someone or go off to buy drugs, and keep in mind, she didn't have a phone, purse or keys.

IMO, MOO, the friends were lying to protect this place because one or more of them hung out there, and as people have stated, there was serious partying going on.

I also don't really get what the motivation would be for protecting this place, if they really thought she went there and was missing. What would they have to lose if LE knew Lauren went off by herself to buy drugs at a sketchy bar? Everyone already knows about the partying, and if anything, it seems like they would have something to gain by telling LE, if it were true - Aside from the obvious (helping to find Lauren), the spotlight would be taken off them.

MOO.

 

[AbbeyR]

My theory is completely different. Lauren only knew Cory and some others one week, but at the races and then in Bloomington she either saw too much...heard too much...or did too much. On her last night seen she was reportedly very high , loud and confrontational. I believe CR was sent or went to retrieve her underage self from Kilroys....leaving her means of contact and even her shoes at the bar. I believe someone powerful and threatening let CR, JR and some of their drug buying friends know that they had better shut her up. CR obliged an got rough. ZO saw this and punched him. Lauren was still high and out of control. She was mouthing off and blowing the whistle on their Lifestyle/operation. The druggie college boys and girl were and are in fear for their own lives...because of their lifestyle and their contacts. It's a dangerous world and Lauren stepped into a nest of trouble. They had to shut her up....and lastly, their "contacts" may have took her away....maybe the white "construction truck". ......the scream....the dark man...The shoulder toss...the homeless dead man. She may not even be deceased. None of the pois can talk....dead men and one girl, TH, walking if they do...and this includes JW.

BBM: According to whom? I've only seen hypothetical situations voiced here about Lauren's behavior - every report seems to say that she was half conscious and being literally dragged along by CR.

This post reads like a spoiler for a Law and Order episode.

 

[bessie]

Agreed. This has been my theory as of late, too -- that somehow, during the "walk" in the alley, LS fell down again and CR was too tired or inebriated to fuss with her anymore and left her (perhaps very near the dumpster just by happenstance).

Then maybe when he got home, he said something (likely very vague since he was allegedly pretty out of it) to MB, who then panicked and went to JR or even went out to the alley to check and found her passed out or expired. Maybe even he and JR looked together (pure speculation) and then were forced to make a plan of what to do next -- calls to DR and other dude were part of that.

Then, whatever happened next happened via the gravel lot (i remember reading somewhere that the scent ended there with one dog).

This would be one explanation for the seemingly lack of focus (re: dogs/scents) on 5N.

That scenario would explain the trail ending at the gravel lot, but why would JR place himself in the precarious position of being the last person to see Lauren? And in his own apartment?

It would have been so much easier to say that LS passed out, and CR was in no condition to carry her. He went home and indicated to MB that something was wrong with LS. MB went to JR for help, and when they looked for LS, she was gone.

For that matter, if MB and JR found LS unconscious or deceased, why not just call 911 right there on the spot? What would they have to hide?

Would they have assumed by the bruises on LS's face that CR had hurt her? And if so, would they really go that far to protect him?

 

[bessie]

I already got snipped for stating opinion as fact so I'll try again. I am from Bloomington and searched for Lauren all that summer. IMO, MOO, the friends were innocent. Yeah, I know, they are as sketchy as the day is long....lazy,
careless, self-centered and into drugs up to their eyebrows.
People are beginning to talk. I've heard from good friends of ZO and AB.
They are adamant that these two had nothing to do with LS' disappearance.
I know the intersection JR saw her at very well. IMO, he IS lyng, but only
about which way she turned (he said to the right towards SW).
If Lauren went straight through the intersection, instead of turning, and then jay-walked or crossed the street, she would be just a few feet from an alley that leads directly to the patio gate of a bar called House Bar, and IMO,
MOO, this is where she was headed. Right after myself and two other people brought attention to this spot, the bar closed, but then reopened 8 mos later.
I think, IMO, MOO, she was abducted from that alley, either by someone who saw her there, saw her approaching, or leaving. To say this place is a drug den that sometimes stays open all night would not be opinion stated as fact.
If this place is not shifty enough, it is surrounded by adult bookstores and a creepy lingerie modelling bar.
IMO, MOO, the friends were lying to protect this place because one or more of them hung out there, and as people have stated, there was serious partying going on.

So good guy JR would refuse to give LS drugs, but then watch her walk into a dark, dangerous alley and do nothing. Would JR really lie to protect the bar owner? If so, that's very interesting.

I'm overwhelmed at what a true friend this JR is. He'd lie to protect the owner of a sleazy bar, CR, maybe MB. Seems he's a friend to everyone except Lauren Spierer.

Lauren leaving when she did at 12:30, going here and there as she did, looks like what it probably was-- IMO, her going to score. JR may have cut her off. and she decided to meet someone at House Bar. It is a very down low bar, hardly anyone knows about it, yet it is right around the corner, down a dark alley, from 5N.
IMO, MOO, I think whatever happened to her stems from heading to that place.

Regarding the bolded, here and where? A party with friends? A popular bar? Her own apartment building? Back to CR's apartment after a confrontation at Smallwood? Beside -- possibly -- JR's apartment, which stops along her route indicate LS was trying to score?


http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/index.html