IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Btown]

If Lauren went straight through the intersection, instead of turning, and then jay-walked or crossed the street, she would be just a few feet from an alley that leads directly to the patio gate of a bar called House Bar, and IMO,
MOO, this is where she was headed.
[...]
I think, IMO, MOO, she was abducted from that alley, either by someone who saw her there, saw her approaching, or leaving.
[...]
it is right around the corner, down a dark alley, from 5N.

IMO, MOO, I think whatever happened to her stems from heading to that place.

(Respectfully sniped for brevity.)


Overview - Location of the House Bar, (at the top right).

Sorry for the image quality.

Detail - Location of the House Bar

 

[imkeylime]

... Regarding the bolded, here and where? A party with friends? A popular bar? Her own apartment building? Back to CR's apartment after a confrontation at Smallwood? Beside -- possibly -- JR's apartment, which stops along her route indicate LS was trying to score?


http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/index.html

IMO, CR may have wanted to score, in more ways than one. If he was interested in more than a "friend" relationship, which the Lohud article implies, he may have wanted to keep LS under the influence of whatever. That could have prompted the stop at SW ... and then at 10th and College after SW didn't pan out. I doubt LS knew what a slippery slope she was walking into that night.

 

[bx2]

Sorry for the image quality.

Detail - Location of the House Bar

It's a little bit more north than what's labelled, right? The building shaded in red sticking barely out of the trees.

If this place is not shifty enough, it is surrounded by adult bookstores and a creepy lingerie modelling bar.

For whatever it's worth, I lived at what would be 12th and College for 3 years and would say pretty matter of factly that describing it as a shifty area is grossly exaggerated.

 

[Snapfade]

It's a little bit more north than what's labelled, right? The building shaded in red sticking barely out of the trees.

For whatever it's worth, I lived at what would be 12th and College for 3 years and would say pretty matter of factly that describing it as a shifty area is grossly exaggerated.

If LS walked to JW's , would she have to walk thru this area?

 

[VeryVeritas]

One more point that ive not seen addressed....If LS thought DR had her cell phone, why would there be a meed for her to call him looking for it.

EXACTLY! Why not just call your phone and see who answers!

 

[bessie]

If LS walked to JW's , would she have to walk thru this area?

No. His house was in the 600 block of 9th St.

Bloomington police also searched JW's home, in the 600th block of 9th Street Wednesday. [JW] is Lauren Spierer's boyfriend.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...ren-spierers-friends-20110630,0,5617179.story

 

[Snapfade]

EXACTLY! Why not just call your phone and see who answers!

Im now convinced more than ever that LS did not make those calls.

 

[Ixchel13]

In order for my theory to make sense, IMO, JR did see her walk away from his apartment. Then you have to ask, why are these people clamming up and getting lawyers? IMO opinion, it could be because they sold/gave/imbibed
drugs with her, or any combination. Some people are saying that if that was all, then they would tell about the drugs, but I don't think so. Telling about the drugs would open them up to possibly huge civil lawsuits if they admitted giving/selling/using/administering drugs that caused her erratic behavior leading to possible abduction/murder. Yes their parents could and should be worried about that.

I think most people, and maybe even her parents and family, suspect drugs are involved. Isn't that what most people are implying--that too much drugs were imbibed and that she died and was hidden?
And since we suspect this and a group of drug buddies were involved, then I guess it looks bad for them. When I said she was going here and there, by Bloomington standards she was hopping around when she should be sitting tight. She and part of the group she was in had already been issued PI's, they knew better than to be running around after the bars closed intoxicated. The altercation at SW after Kilroys where CR got punched
has never been adequately explained, IMO, it was all about drugs, but also
IMO had nothing to do with her disappearance and became a huge red herring.
I'm glad you posted the picture of the House Bar, and it is further down surrounded by the trees. What looks like a road leading to that back gate is really an alley and it has been cleared somewhat. As you can see from the photo, someone at Amethyst House (men's 1/2 way house)could watch from the porch and see anyone turning into that alley. Once the person gets in the alley, they are trapped.
People say LS was too effed up to go anywhere. Blackout states are weird, unless you've experienced it, you might think of it as being passed out;
actually you can get bursts of energy and wreak all kinds of havoc before finally just going to bed if you're lucky enough to be home.
Well I guess it's what you would call shifty. Two adult bookstores and a lingerie modelling bar on the same 1/2 block, under a by pass by the railroad tracks.
Tell me at 3:30 this spot isn't shifty! I managed a late night store right there at 10th and College, and I used to say little prayers for the young chicks I would see walking up and down that street at all hours alone when I was leaving.
IMO, all the crazy, mixed up things these kids did that night led up to one thing: one of their lambs got out of the fold at just the right evil moment,
they didn't/couldn't do anything to stop it, and the bad person snapped her up.
For instance, Lauren could have set out for House Bar right after she got to JR's, and the phone call to DR at 4:15 could have been by JR when she didn't come back after an hour.

 

[sammi89]

I agree that blackout stages are weird - sure, there's a lot of uncertainty. IMO, as a recent college grad & from my own experience, when you are falling like it's been described (and shown? some were caught on video, right?), it is just much more likely that she would want to go to bed, NOT continue partying. I can MAYBE see her SAYING she wants to continue (and that's a big maybe) but at that point, you can usually sit the person down and they will just sort of pass out on their own. More on that later....

I don't think lawyers for the drugs would be a big deal at this point. Investigators have said they know drugs were happening at JR's party (http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/) so I have hard time really seeing how not talking freely solely because drugs were involved would be overly beneficial in comparison to just saying, "this, this, and this was available and then she went to the House Bar because she wanted x,y, or z." He wouldn't necessarily have to say how she got it, just that it was brought to his party. In fact, if JR actually knew she was heading there to begin with, it makes MUCH more sense to me that he would have said they were drinking at his party and because she wanted more, she decided to leave for whatever it was at the House Bar INSTEAD of ever saying she went home. In this scenario, he still wouldn't have to say drugs were happening at his place, just that she wanted them. If she had gone to the House Bar, there is almost no doubt in my mind that he would never cover for them and put himself at risk. In that scenario, his culpability in what happened is MUCH less and you would think that their friendship would factor heavily toward NOT covering for the House Bar. Also, I'm not sure what Indiana's laws are governing social hosts, but for most things, I don't think the host would be liable for the behavior/decisions of a guest. Something to look into for someone interested?

I noticed in the linked video that they say that LS and CR left Kilroy's together and that upon arriving at Smallwood they were confronted because LS was in such bad shape, which I think should point lean toward bed/passing out was much more on her mind than continuing - if someone is just going crazy/wanting to go all out, I really don't see why outsiders would say anything/interfere --> in fact, I think it is such an important fact that people that were not even with LS & CR DID notice and DID stop them. Also, note that the boy initially asked LS if she was okay directly. She did not respond, CR did. The boy then told CR she was in bad shape and needed to be taken to her room. CR responded, fight ensued. Not once is LS said as having said ANYTHING. I know another witness is mentioned as having heard her head hit the ground --> I can't remember, did this witness also ask CR if LS was okay? Again, just pointing out how significant that an entire group of people stopped and thought something was wrong (were these friends of LS? If they weren't, an entire group of strangers thought she was in terrible shape and got into a physical altercation stemming from it - sounds pretty bad to me) and another witness at least noticed how bad her behavior was AND it was significant enough that she remembered it the next day (if she also asked if LS was okay that again just points to how MULTIPLE strangers were concerned). If these people, who SAW LS thought she was in such terrible shape, who are we to say that she was actually perfectly okay and was actually on the hunt for something more? Her behavior does not support this & witnesses do not support this.The only people who do support the theory that she was maybe interesting in something more are POI.

I also noticed that the investigators say that LS put her things down at Kilroy's and then CR & LS left. The next thing they mention is the confrontation at Smallwood. What they did NOT mention is why exactly CR & LS left Kilroy's. Has that ever been identified?

Here are the things that I have wondered about the last few days that don't sit right with me:

* Why go to Smallwood instead of his place? This is reaching and totally just based on my own experiences and biases, but I would think that most guys that had only known a girl for about a week, knew she was in a relationship/complicated relationship (for those who think it was on the rocks), and may have known her roommates/friends liked JW, would want to go to their place over hers. I think it is even more likely if he had been banned from Smallwood (if caught, he could be kicked out and any chance of scoring would be over). If you're trying to score, it would make much more sense to go to familiar territory where there is NO chance of getting in trouble and/or roommates/friends getting involved, which kind of goes to my next point

* A lot of people think that going back to Smallwood and knocking on the door of the four female friends was them looking for somewhere to continue their party and/or hooking up. Based on her behavior, I just don't see that as likely (or really, even a slight possibility, but that's just me). I'm gone back to wondering exactly why they left Kilroy's. I'm wondering if that was when things started going downhill for her health-wise. For me, this explains a lot of loose ends from the beginning. Why did she forget her shoes AND phone? Because she was getting really, really sick and they were not a priority (and probably also not on her mind). Nothing has been mentioned of her behavior at Kilroy's that has been verified as far as I am aware, but I do not think you just start falling over/not responding within minutes, so I don't think it's unreasonable to think it started at Kilroy's. CR was with her, maybe he gave her something knowingly or unknowingly, and wanted to get rid of her fast. Easy solution? Take her home. That goes well with the type of person he's been portrayed as in the media. If she was already getting sick at Kilroy's and THAT was the reason they left, that would explain why she could hardly stand, wasn't responding to people, and was the one in "need of all the help" as the video points out. The confrontation ensues; CR splits with LS. Why not leave her? Because he gave her something (if the group of boys was willing to physically fight with CR, I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that CR would think that they would call an ambulance and/or security for LS). He drops by his friends' place; no one answers. He drags her along to his place. From there, I'm really not sure how JR got involved. I think it's important to keep in mind that JS & LS have been described as friends, they have a lot of mutual friends, these mutual friends like and defended him, and they both were Jewish (in my experiences, having that background creates a bond). I really think for those who think the boys are responsible, one of the essential things is determining their culpability and how JR ends up being "the last to see her." I think if JR had never said this and taken on that responsibility, most everyone would think CR was to blame.

As they were approaching 5 North, LS was only getting worse and falling more. I really would not be surprised if CR dragged her to JR's because, IF CR did give LS something, the got it and/or LS ingested it at JR's earlier party. Maybe MB was called, maybe CR went to MB's first and they both took LS to JR's, but I really think it is so much more likely that something happened then at 5 North and maybe she died in his (JR's) presence before they could decide on help. There are plenty of situations where the person who dies is alone responsible in ingesting whatever it was and later ODs and their friends do not realize and/or recognize what is happening until it is too late (here's one example: http://www.keepfriendshipalive.org/about/ ---> I THINK that even when they did realize how bad the brother was getting they argued about calling 911 because they didn't want to get in trouble). I think it is SO easy to see a situation where LS is in trouble and the boys also spend time arguing about what to do. In this scenario, CR has already shown he really just wants to abandon the situation and pawn her off on someone else to deal with instead of making the call himself. I also have serious doubts about him going to bed --> he helped LS. He answered all questions directed to her. If he needed to be put to bed, so did she. Also, keep in mind that he will forever be able to say that he drank so much and the punch combined led to his "amnesia" and there is no way to verify that since no medical attention was utilized (also, I think a red flag should always go up when someone uses the term "amnesia," just sayin). I would not be surprised, however, if their initial solution was to "put her to bed" and let her "sleep it off" instead of making the call. I think their decisions, if she OD'd and they had decided not to call, let her sleep it off, or were still arguing about the "right" decision would be compounded by anything sinister ex: they were the ones who supplied whatever it was she had ingested, knowingly or unknowingly. If she were alive and died before a call was made, I think it is easy to envision a situation with just pure panic and hasty decisions.

For me, something along this line with CR being more culpable and JR becoming the supplier/unwilling participant, would explain some of CS' letters. I think there has been a few mentions of the parents specifically stating they think LS would be alive and well had she never met CR (notice that I do not believe JR is included in this statement). There's also mentions of "remember what LS meant to you." Some have wondered if that was meant for JW, but I think it could easily be meant for someone who had been, at least previously, a friend to LS (JR).



All of this is just my opinion.

 

[sammi89]

Also, even if they were worried about some sort of liability because of the drugs, it still does not make sense to me why these lawyers were hired from pretty much day 1. As it became clearer that drugs MAY have played a part and the OD theory gained credence, sure, hire the lawyers. But, at least in the first few days, it would make much more sense that the focus be on finding this missing friend of theirs. In the beginning, there should have been some kind of hope that she would be okay or at least found (maybe she passed out on her way home, died enroute, etc.) or, god forbid she had been abducted, using all available knowledge to figure the most likely location of abduction. Instead, the focus was immediately on protecting the POI. I don't want to take away from the argument that it makes sense to protect oneself because it most certainly does. I can definitely understand worry that they would immediately be suspected (ironic because they are still at the top of many lists by not talking). However, I think by saying that they had an interest in protecting themselves ignores the flip side - I don't think many would even recognize that they needed to protect themselves until some major facts became known ex: something like they were the last person to see LS, they provided her with x, y, and z, that x, y, z was available at their home, etc. Additionally, in CR's case, he supposedly doesn't remember all those times she fell. He also can't use the argument that he was the last to see her and therefore, he wanted a lawyer for that fact alone. He wasn't the last to see her by his own account and even if he was unsure of this, his sober roomie MB was right there to let him know.

Maybe those aren't compelling arguments for why someone wouldn't retain a lawyer right away. I'd agree - they aren't 100% convincing. However, I would argue that the need for a lawyer immediately before most facts are known is equally not 100% compelling in this case. There's arguments for both, imo.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Lots of good thinking lately.

1) For those that think House Bar and LS wandering around on other excursions including venturing over to JW's, etc... This has seemed implausible to some of us because her last known state was that of someone who could not talk, kept slamming her head on the ground/gravel/concrete and was being literally carried by CR or propped up by him. The altercation where CR gets clocked by ZO at SW has always been very peculiar and it's lack of LE attention has made it even more strange. If this altercation was about CR having put LS into such a terrible situation, why not take over and "help" LS back to her apt... since she was already on the way. Was she not also already in the elevator falling down trying to get out of it? Why would ZO and company allow CR to take her elsewhere if they were such chivalrous knights? So, didn't appear to me that they were so concerned about LS. The prevailing theory is that LS had consumed alcohol, klonopin (which has been backed up by some fuzzy heresay from DR), and possibly other substances voluntarily or involuntarily. As it happens OD on Klonopin alone can cause the symptomatic behavior witnessed and recorded on video. LS suffered serious injuries to her head. Both of these things (the drug induced state; unable to talk, falling, and loss of consciousness, as well as; Head injuries from multiple serious falls either witnessed or recorded) created a situation where LS was most likely either completely unconscious / comatose or rotating between comatose blackouts and bouts of consciousness.
2) With LS being unconscious it does open up for the possibility that someone tried taking advantage of the situation and attempted intercourse. Who? That would seem to point more towards CR that anyone else. Now consider again, the image of LS last recorded moments on camera - the actual last time we can believe with any certainty of her whereabouts. Lauren exited that alley and fell face down, without blocking. Her wallet and keys (minus her fake ID and SW keycard) were found very close to this spot and put up on a railing within minutes of this fall. But she was no longer there.
My thinking is from original LE statements that there was some sort of "activity" at the end of the alley. This was before PI's let it be known that the "activity" was her falling face down like she was out cold. Lately I have wondered if LE's "activity" includes a bit more... if they could see her fall... they could see her get up... or someone drag her or pick her up. Dragged or Picked up would be CR. He was right there with her. LE should know if she were assisted back up, was picked up or was just pulled away.
3) From there, carried, propped or dragged it's a short distance to the blind area behind 5N. This blind area were only a few parked, 5N visitors parked, a wooden fence around the dumpster blocks the view from the alley area. I call it a blind area because of this and because there are no cameras here, it's very dark also having some trees to block light and create visibility barriers, and few windows with visibility even from the 5N building itself. Since CR lived there, he would have known just how blind it was. We know that CR made it home and 5N is where he lived. And LS supposedly made it to 5N too. Whether or not she ever got passed the blind area is a good question. Everything else we know after this is based on statements from MB, MB's lawyer and JR. The person last actually known to be with her was CR and he conveniently has amnesia. MB(especially)'s and JR's stories are very inconsistent with the events leading up to LS making it to 5N(if we are to believe she made it, and most likely that she would have been carried or propped were it true).
So, as Bessie asked, why would JR take it upon himself to be known as the last person to supposedly see her if it weren't true? My answer to this has been to cover for someone else and misdirect attention from not only the someone but location as well. We all know that drugs are a given in this scenario; the depth and complexity of the drugs has been speculated as one reason for motivation of such a cover up and a reason for hiding LS's body. It's also been speculated that evidence of rape or other foul play may have been the reason to cause LS to vanish. It would seem unlikely that JR would cover for that unless he were also directly involved. It's also known that JR had family ties with LS's family this also making him the more diplomatic liaison to deal with them.
I recall events of the following day when LS's dad arrives with JW and they quickly are on the path of CR and JR. How did they figure all of that out so quickly? We know about the cameras but that day, LS's dad and JW didn't know any of that. What if JR had denied seeing her? Well then everything would point squarely at CR and MB. So JR is taking the heat off of CR and MB. It also appears that MB is covering up for CR and possibly himself as well. MB's statements only make sense because JR's align with them. All that's needed to make this type of conspiracy work is a simple deal between MB and JR, and CR just has to not say anything. But yes, WHY cover up for CR?
If the cover up were not about rape, and not drugs, then what?
Scenario: CR carried or dragged LS to the blind area near the 5N dumpster. She's clearly got serious injuries and looks like she's been beaten, even though its really from repeatedly falling. CR realizes that she is dead or suspects it. He goes up to get help. MB comes to take a look. CR / MB discuss what would happen if LE were called. CR is crocked and high, and there lies a small beautiful LS appearing to have been beaten to death, with inebriated CR being the last known person with her. The fear of how LE would respond and treat CR in this scenario would certainly be motivation to begin a simple cover up. Now, MB realizes they have to get JR involved so MB calls JR at 3:30 (it was MB's cell phone to JR's right?). So JR comes down to have a look and agrees but only because CR is coherent enough to explain that LS's injuries were from falling. CR is able to convince JR. So, now we are left with who took the body and what did they do with it? And then JR's 2 clean up calls at 4:15 to DR and ?
This scenario is very similar to these same events taking place in CR/MB's apartment.
Either way, It does seem that JR saw LS's injuries.
Also, from early reports I thought it was stated that other POI's had been at CR/MB's or came over from JR's to CR/MB's and had witnessed LS there. So if this (at least one) other POI, possibly the out of town visitor of JR's also saw LS at this time, they are just as much on the hook.

LE's actions following LS's disappearance seem to follow some of this. It was as though LE saw through CR's B.S. and so they searched CR's car. So LE may be on to much of this, they just can't prove it. And of course, just who took LS out of there?

 

[VeryVeritas]

So good guy JR would refuse to give LS drugs, but then watch her walk into a dark, dangerous alley and do nothing. Would JR really lie to protect the bar owner? If so, that's very interesting.

I'm overwhelmed at what a true friend this JR is. He'd lie to protect the owner of a sleazy bar, CR, maybe MB. Seems he's a friend to everyone except Lauren Spierer.


Regarding the bolded, here and where? A party with friends? A popular bar? Her own apartment building? Back to CR's apartment after a confrontation at Smallwood? Beside -- possibly -- JR's apartment, which stops along her route indicate LS was trying to score?


http://www.lohud.com/flash/spierer/index.html

I think JR would lie to cover for those people close to his circle IF he knew firsthand (or believed) LS accidentally (whether he was involved in the supply chain or not) died and that those people (or person) would be falsely prosecuted(very likely dragging him in anyway) / imprisoned for it.

 

[Ixchel13]

Lots of good thinking lately.

1) For those that think House Bar and LS wandering around on other excursions including venturing over to JW's, etc... This has seemed implausible to some of us because her last known state was that of someone who could not talk, kept slamming her head on the ground/gravel/concrete and was being literally carried by CR or propped up by him. The altercation where CR gets clocked by ZO at SW has always been very peculiar and it's lack of LE attention has made it even more strange. If this altercation was about CR having put LS into such a terrible situation, why not take over and "help" LS back to her apt... since she was already on the way. Was she not also already in the elevator falling down trying to get out of it? Why would ZO and company allow CR to take her elsewhere if they were such chivalrous knights? So, didn't appear to me that they were so concerned about LS. The prevailing theory is that LS had consumed alcohol, klonopin (which has been backed up by some fuzzy heresay from DR), and possibly other substances voluntarily or involuntarily. As it happens OD on Klonopin alone can cause the symptomatic behavior witnessed and recorded on video. LS suffered serious injuries to her head. Both of these things (the drug induced state; unable to talk, falling, and loss of consciousness, as well as; Head injuries from multiple serious falls either witnessed or recorded) created a situation where LS was most likely either completely unconscious / comatose or rotating between comatose blackouts and bouts of consciousness.
2) With LS being unconscious it does open up for the possibility that someone tried taking advantage of the situation and attempted intercourse. Who? That would seem to point more towards CR that anyone else. Now consider again, the image of LS last recorded moments on camera - the actual last time we can believe with any certainty of her whereabouts. Lauren exited that alley and fell face down, without blocking. Her wallet and keys (minus her fake ID and SW keycard) were found very close to this spot and put up on a railing within minutes of this fall. But she was no longer there.
My thinking is from original LE statements that there was some sort of "activity" at the end of the alley. This was before PI's let it be known that the "activity" was her falling face down like she was out cold. Lately I have wondered if LE's "activity" includes a bit more... if they could see her fall... they could see her get up... or someone drag her or pick her up. Dragged or Picked up would be CR. He was right there with her. LE should know if she were assisted back up, was picked up or was just pulled away.
3) From there, carried, propped or dragged it's a short distance to the blind area behind 5N. This blind area were only a few parked, 5N visitors parked, a wooden fence around the dumpster blocks the view from the alley area. I call it a blind area because of this and because there are no cameras here, it's very dark also having some trees to block light and create visibility barriers, and few windows with visibility even from the 5N building itself. Since CR lived there, he would have known just how blind it was. We know that CR made it home and 5N is where he lived. And LS supposedly made it to 5N too. Whether or not she ever got passed the blind area is a good question. Everything else we know after this is based on statements from MB, MB's lawyer and JR. The person last actually known to be with her was CR and he conveniently has amnesia. MB(especially)'s and JR's stories are very inconsistent with the events leading up to LS making it to 5N(if we are to believe she made it, and most likely that she would have been carried or propped were it true).
So, as Bessie asked, why would JR take it upon himself to be known as the last person to supposedly see her if it weren't true? My answer to this has been to cover for someone else and misdirect attention from not only the someone but location as well. We all know that drugs are a given in this scenario; the depth and complexity of the drugs has been speculated as one reason for motivation of such a cover up and a reason for hiding LS's body. It's also been speculated that evidence of rape or other foul play may have been the reason to cause LS to vanish. It would seem unlikely that JR would cover for that unless he were also directly involved. It's also known that JR had family ties with LS's family this also making him the more diplomatic liaison to deal with them.
I recall events of the following day when LS's dad arrives with JW and they quickly are on the path of CR and JR. How did they figure all of that out so quickly? We know about the cameras but that day, LS's dad and JW didn't know any of that. What if JR had denied seeing her? Well then everything would point squarely at CR and MB. So JR is taking the heat off of CR and MB. It also appears that MB is covering up for CR and possibly himself as well. MB's statements only make sense because JR's align with them. All that's needed to make this type of conspiracy work is a simple deal between MB and JR, and CR just has to not say anything. But yes, WHY cover up for CR?
If the cover up were not about rape, and not drugs, then what?
Scenario: CR carried or dragged LS to the blind area near the 5N dumpster. She's clearly got serious injuries and looks like she's been beaten, even though its really from repeatedly falling. CR realizes that she is dead or suspects it. He goes up to get help. MB comes to take a look. CR / MB discuss what would happen if LE were called. CR is crocked and high, and there lies a small beautiful LS appearing to have been beaten to death, with inebriated CR being the last known person with her. The fear of how LE would respond and treat CR in this scenario would certainly be motivation to begin a simple cover up. Now, MB realizes they have to get JR involved so MB calls JR at 3:30 (it was MB's cell phone to JR's right?). So JR comes down to have a look and agrees but only because CR is coherent enough to explain that LS's injuries were from falling. CR is able to convince JR. So, now we are left with who took the body and what did they do with it? And then JR's 2 clean up calls at 4:15 to DR and ?
This scenario is very similar to these same events taking place in CR/MB's apartment.
Either way, It does seem that JR saw LS's injuries.
Also, from early reports I thought it was stated that other POI's had been at CR/MB's or came over from JR's to CR/MB's and had witnessed LS there. So if this (at least one) other POI, possibly the out of town visitor of JR's also saw LS at this time, they are just as much on the hook.

LE's actions following LS's disappearance seem to follow some of this. It was as though LE saw through CR's B.S. and so they searched CR's car. So LE may be on to much of this, they just can't prove it. And of course, just who took LS out of there?

applying your theory, the friend visiting takes her with him after eating a corned beef sandwich, IIRC.
IMO, that's too many guys getting each other involved, yet have to admit most people will blame the friends. But, IMO, there is a very real possibility
that it wasn't them. Just as real as it could be them.

 

[VeryVeritas]

applying your theory, the friend visiting takes her with him after eating a corned beef sandwich, IIRC.
IMO, that's too many guys getting each other involved, yet have to admit most people will blame the friends. But, IMO, there is a very real possibility
that it wasn't them. Just as real as it could be them.

Really? How do you calculate this "Equal chance?"

1) CR just happens to be the last person that we can actually say with any certainty was with her - He just happens to have Amnesia!

2) The statements made by MB / MB's Attorney and JR do not match LS's last known condition, not even close. Moreover, their actions do not fit.

3) The odds of stranger abduction are exceedingly rare. In this case you have a very narrow time frame, a very small geography, with very suspicious circumstances and an unrealistic account of a barefoot 98lb girl who was slammed in the head with concrete and was totally unconscious within an hour prior to her supposed sober departure BAREFOOT after calling 2 other POI's to look for her phone, instead of calling her phone to see who had it.
Stringing together the odds of all of this and you come up with and EQUAL CHANCE? Perhaps you think the chance of a house burning down is the same as winning the powerball? It's NOT.

 

[Snapfade]

applying your theory, the friend visiting takes her with him after eating a corned beef sandwich, IIRC.
IMO, that's too many guys getting each other involved, yet have to admit most people will blame the friends. But, IMO, there is a very real possibility
that it wasn't them. Just as real as it could be them.

The visiting friend is the one person that could be involved, without any other of the 5N guys knowing anything about it.They could all be telling the 100% truth , because visiting friend that was most likely crashing on couch. He potentially watched LS leave as JR was heading upstairs to bed. All other theories involving 5 N require 1 2 or all 3 being involved.

 

[British]

Really? How do you calculate this "Equal chance?"

1) CR just happens to be the last person that we can actually say with any certainty was with her - He just happens to have Amnesia!

2) The statements made by MB / MB's Attorney and JR do not match LS's last known condition, not even close. Moreover, their actions do not fit.

3) The odds of stranger abduction are exceedingly rare. In this case you have a very narrow time frame, a very small geography, with very suspicious circumstances and an unrealistic account of a barefoot 98lb girl who was slammed in the head with concrete and was totally unconscious within an hour prior to her supposed sober departure BAREFOOT after calling 2 other POI's to look for her phone, instead of calling her phone to see who had it.
Stringing together the odds of all of this and you come up with and EQUAL CHANCE? Perhaps you think the chance of a house burning down is the same as winning the powerball? It's NOT.

I think the center piece of this case is the "amnesia". Let me put it like this. Someone who has "amnesia" (and their attorneys) should have no problem taking a lie detector test or talking to the police if they were to be helpful. They would not remember doing anything bad or wrong (even if they did) because of their "amnesia" and therefore would be willing to talk and help. Not fully cooperating and being unwilling to talk to the parents of a missing girl in the context of "amnesia" is unexpected, surprising and raises major questions.

 

[Jacobite]

I'm afraid that my patience would be worn out by now. Time to depose them. One could argue that Lauren was impaired and could not consent to being removed from Smallwood and that doing so resulted in reckless endangerment which resulted in loss of love and affection. Furthermore, it appears we have syncope which is a medical emergency with Long QT. Not only did the guy not get her help, the last image of Lauren seems to have someone tugging and pulling her along. That's real bad too. After syncope one is supposed to rest for several minutes.

 

[Jacobite]

The visiting friend is the one person that could be involved, without any other of the 5N guys knowing anything about it.They could all be telling the 100% truth , because visiting friend that was most likely crashing on couch. He potentially watched LS leave as JR was heading upstairs to bed. All other theories involving 5 N require 1 2 or all 3 being involved.

I know HT said Jay had a house guest that night. Then, Chick Justin discovered that DB, Jay's current business partner was in Bloomington on 3 June. Why don't we see his name in the stories? Could it be he has cellphone or credit card records that clear him?

 

[Jacobite]

Police rarely share much information with missing person's family. This is because statistically the cause is usually family or boyfriend. The stats do not seem to apply to this case. The most well known missing girls in the last year and a half are Lauren, Holly, and Mickey. Two of the three are abductions. The reason I no longer think Lauren was abducted is because of what I have been told about dogs.

 

[Snapfade]

I think the center piece of this case is the "amnesia". Let me put it like this. Someone who has "amnesia" (and their attorneys) should have no problem taking a lie detector test or talking to the police if they were to be helpful. They would not remember doing anything bad or wrong (even if they did) because of their "amnesia" and therefore would be willing to talk and help. Not fully cooperating and being unwilling to talk to the parents of a missing girl in the context of "amnesia" is unexpected, surprising and raises major questions.

I agree.. By not taking lie detector test, it makes me think CR has not forgotten what happened to LS that night , He`s trying to forget...