IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Btown]

Where did the residents of 5N park their cars? Where did their guests park their cars?

Residents of 5 North park in their parking lot behind 5 North.

If there were no spaces available for guest, they could park in the gravel lot. It had a parking meter that you could pay, and then put the ticket on the dash of the car. Several areas in Bloomington have these type of meters, instead of a single meter for each car.

 

[Btown]

1)
Also, it's good to clear up that there was no way into 5N without going around the building to 11th. So CR / LS's(most likely dragged or carried) path appears it would go very close or directly past the 5N dumpster. So, no surprise a scent would follow that path at least to there.

That would depend on the route they took. They could have continued up the alley to 11th Street, and not gone by the dumpster.

The white pick up in the 5N Balcony photo is facing the wrong direction because of construction when the photo was taken?

Correct.

 

[bx2]

Residents of 5 North park in their parking lot behind 5 North.

If there were no spaces available for guest, they could park in the gravel lot. It had a parking meter that you could pay, and then put the ticket on the dash of the car. Several areas in Bloomington have these type of meters, instead of a single meter for each car.

Also there was the lot just west of 5N at 11th and Morton. This was where JR's vehicle was usually parked (during 11-12 school year) even before the construction started.

 

[Btown]

Also there was the lot just west of 5N at 11th and Morton. This was where JR's vehicle was usually parked (during 11-12 school year) even before the construction started.

And there was some parking accross the street to the North West of 5 North as seen below.

 

[carlarae341]

My theory is completely different. Lauren only knew Cory and some others one week, but at the races and then in Bloomington she either saw too much...heard too much...or did too much. On her last night seen she was reportedly very high , loud and confrontational. I believe CR was sent or went to retrieve her underage self from Kilroys....leaving her means of contact and even her shoes at the bar. I believe someone powerful and threatening let CR, JR and some of their drug buying friends know that they had better shut her up. CR obliged an got rough. ZO saw this and punched him. Lauren was still high and out of control. She was mouthing off and blowing the whistle on their Lifestyle/operation. The druggie college boys and girl were and are in fear for their own lives...because of their lifestyle and their contacts. It's a dangerous world and Lauren stepped into a nest of trouble. They had to shut her up....and lastly, their "contacts" may have took her away....maybe the white "construction truck". ......the scream....the dark man...The shoulder toss...the homeless dead man. She may not even be deceased. None of the pois can talk....dead men and one girl, TH, walking if they do...and this includes JW.

 

[akh]

The talk of the dogs has made me wonder something. If there's no scent of her leaving 5N, like JR claimed she left, then why isn't he feeling much more heat from LE?

Could it be there was a scent detected?

At least that could explain why LE has acted more confused than anything. Same for the PI's.

Or could it be her scent was all around that area making it impossible to really make heads or tails about what the scents were actually saying?

I suppose if the dogs didn't detect a scent where the video said they should've, then not detecting a scent leaving 5N in the manner that JR claimed keeps that from being a damning piece of evidence.

But anyway, I hadn't given the thought of there should be a scent of her leaving the weight I should've. If it's not there then why isn't LE acting more on that? Does some other factor diminish that fact's value? And if it is there, is that explainable in any other way but as exculpatory evidence for JR?

 

[imkeylime]

veritas - regarding your second points. one of the many frustrating parts of this case is that you're dealing with inebriated people so some of the things you point out as not making sense might make perfect sense given the random things that happen when people are drunk/high. i could see a scenario in which drunk LS manages to lose everything except her keycard/id. i could also see her leaving the apartment and trying to head toward the party she was trying to get those guys to go to with her. i could also understand jr/mb giving up on getting her to stay with them if she's being drunk and belligerent. i've been in situations where you try to get the drunk friend to just calm down, sit on the couch, eat some food, go to sleep, etc and they're up every five minutes doing something else dumb and drunk. i can certainly understand that at some point if your choice is to a) physically restrain this girl for a lengthy period of time until she sobers up or b) get her at least sober enough to stop falling and then let her do what she wants where you'd finally give up and go with b. there's still a lot of fishy stuff with the stories but their stories of dealing with a drunk friend don't alarm my skeptic radar. just my 2 cents.

While I seriously question whether LS made it to or from 5N that early morning, I do agree with much of your post. I've seen an intoxicated person walk into the ocean for fun, and going after said person wasn't simple. It bothers me to think that JR would let an inebriated and hurt LS walk home alone, but the alternative is worse.

Still, there are so many inconsistencies in the POIs' stories, and so many questions surrounding the gravel lot, that I find it doubtful that she left 5N upright.

 

[VeryVeritas]

While I seriously question whether LS made it to or from 5N that early morning, I do agree with much of your post. I've seen an intoxicated person walk into the ocean for fun, and going after said person wasn't simple. It bothers me to think that JR would let an inebriated and hurt LS walk home alone, but the alternative is worse.

Still, there are so many inconsistencies in the POIs' stories, and so many questions surrounding the gravel lot, that I find it doubtful that she left 5N upright.

We are in agreement on this.

What I've seen posted about dogs has been sketchy and some of it seems to have been challenged as not legit. So, do you or anyone have an analysis on what legit dogs found / signaled that has been made public.
My understanding is that LE dogs did follow her scent to a point and then lost it. I've not seen anything suggesting that dogs followed her sent up the alley instead to 11th. Since we think LS never made it to 5N or never left on alive on foot, I would not expect that dogs found her scent all around the outside of 5N. At the same time, Cadaver dogs are different. I've not seen anything official about Cadaver dogs, just one poster saying they signaled at the dumpster.

 

[Jacobite]

I just got off the phone with Sears and they were very nice. They informed me they were at 5 N last night to empty that dumpster. It's emptied every Monday and Thursday. And, It was the same in 2011. So, the dumpster was emptied the day before Lauren went missing and again the Monday after. The lady also told me that if something Lauren's size was in a dumpster, she would have seen it and there is no way she is in that landfill.

I'm reposting this because it contains information that trumps the above post about dogs at the dumpster. Might be important.

 

[Jacobite]

I don't think anyone lied to me about dogs. In fact, it's only what I have been told about dogs that makes me suspect these guys at all. And, I said at all.

There seem to be far too many big egos in play here. Too many people butting heads. Then, we wonder why the case is not solved.

 

[Jacobite]

The talk of the dogs has made me wonder something. If there's no scent of her leaving 5N, like JR claimed she left, then why isn't he feeling much more heat from LE?

Could it be there was a scent detected?

At least that could explain why LE has acted more confused than anything. Same for the PI's.

Or could it be her scent was all around that area making it impossible to really make heads or tails about what the scents were actually saying?

I suppose if the dogs didn't detect a scent where the video said they should've, then not detecting a scent leaving 5N in the manner that JR claimed keeps that from being a damning piece of evidence.

But anyway, I hadn't given the thought of there should be a scent of her leaving the weight I should've. If it's not there then why isn't LE acting more on that? Does some other factor diminish that fact's value? And if it is there, is that explainable in any other way but as exculpatory evidence for JR?

I believe if a live scent had been detected leaving 5 N, the FBI would have classified this as a kidnapping. On the other hand, if cadaver scent was found at 5 N, someone would have been arrested.

 

[imkeylime]

We are in agreement on this.

What I've seen posted about dogs has been sketchy and some of it seems to have been challenged as not legit. So, do you or anyone have an analysis on what legit dogs found / signaled that has been made public.
My understanding is that LE dogs did follow her scent to a point and then lost it. I've not seen anything suggesting that dogs followed her sent up the alley instead to 11th. Since we think LS never made it to 5N or never left on alive on foot, I would not expect that dogs found her scent all around the outside of 5N. At the same time, Cadaver dogs are different. I've not seen anything official about Cadaver dogs, just one poster saying they signaled at the dumpster.

I wish I knew more about the use of dogs in this case. The following link doesn't say much, only that the dogs searched more than once and that BPD isn't giving out details. Since LS was known to be at 5N earlier, and in both JR and CR's apartments, I believe, it seem logical that cadaver dogs would have been brought in vs. live-scent dogs. But there's nothing that points to that, really.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...ren-spierers-friends-20110630,0,5617179.story

And I know there was talk of a psychic's dog hitting on the dumpster. IMO, it would be beneficial to see if dogs hit on any of the POIs' cars. But it's also possible that cars that left the area before the investigation got that far (i.e., JR's supposed visitor).

If I find out more I will share it. There was a poster on the Sierra Lamar case who had S&R dogs and was a wealth of info. I wish she'd post here!

 

[VeryVeritas]

I wish I knew more about the use of dogs in this case. The following link doesn't say much, only that the dogs searched more than once and that BPD isn't giving out details. Since LS was known to be at 5N earlier, and in both JR and CR's apartments, I believe, it seem logical that cadaver dogs would have been brought in vs. live-scent dogs. But there's nothing that points to that, really.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...ren-spierers-friends-20110630,0,5617179.story

And I know there was talk of a psychic's dog hitting on the dumpster. IMO, it would be beneficial to see if dogs hit on any of the POIs' cars. But it's also possible that cars that left the area before the investigation got that far (i.e., JR's supposed visitor).

If I find out more I will share it. There was a poster on the Sierra Lamar case who had S&R dogs and was a wealth of info. I wish she'd post here!

1a) Where did JR's visitor park? What kind of vehicle was this? I would think that the cams that caught the white truck, would have caught this vehicle leaving and so LE should know the exact time and whether this conflicts with statements from JR and/or the visitor. But then, was this the only visitor? Just when did JR's vistor leave?

1b) If JR regularly parked on the other side of Morton, and people often also parked in the gravel lot because the ominous blind area behind 5N was often full... just who was parking there? 5N did not seem to have a lot of residents. Who else parked behind it? We know that CR's car was searched, was his behind 5N or was it in the Gravel lot that night? Where was MB's car? Just how many cars fit there behind 5N, not including the gravel lot? At that hour it should have been full, had each car been accounted for? I mean for example, if everyone in that building with a car, or a visitors car identified their vehicle and where it was parked, it might turn up a gap in this 5N lot. For example, if there were 10 cars total, but 6 said they parked in the gravel lot or on the other side of Morton, and yet there if there are 5 spaces behind 5N and all of them said it was full, then who did the 11th vehicle belong to? In such a parking situation, people tend to "claim" a spot and regularly park there. They also get to know the adjacent cars pretty well. So if that night, someone's usual spot where filled, causing them to park elsewhere, they likely would have remembered and noticed the vehicle or perhaps out of state tags. My understanding of that 5 N building was that there were not many people living there - a handful, and including visitors not more than 10 vehicles. Is that correct?


2) Still not understanding why LE can say that one 4:15 call was to DR, but the other 4:15 call was to a "Male friend" that LS was also with earlier. Is this some POI that has as of yet not been named? Or was it perhaps a call back to CR? A call to CR would not add up, and so could see withholding that, because it would point more squarely at JR tying up loose ends. It also clearly is not a call to JW. And remember, these are not calls being made from LS's phone. These are numbers that JR already had, showing the closeness of the parties here.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Curious how people would use the 5N dumpster. Physically carry their trash in bags out the door on 11th then turn the corner on Morton and then turn into the 5N lot and put the trash in the dumpster? So, it would not look strange to see people at any hour walking down 11th with a hefty bag, and then turning down Morton and into the 5N lot.

 

[bx2]

1a) Where did JR's visitor park? What kind of vehicle was this? I would think that the cams that caught the white truck, would have caught this vehicle leaving and so LE should know the exact time and whether this conflicts with statements from JR and/or the visitor. But then, was this the only visitor? Just when did JR's vistor leave?

All fair questions, however just wanted to clear up that the white truck camera faces toward 10th and therefore wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on providing a leave time for any 5North visitor.

1b) If JR regularly parked on the other side of Morton, and people often also parked in the gravel lot because the ominous blind area behind 5N was often full... just who was parking there? 5N did not seem to have a lot of residents. Who else parked behind it? We know that CR's car was searched, was his behind 5N or was it in the Gravel lot that night? Where was MB's car? Just how many cars fit there behind 5N, not including the gravel lot? At that hour it should have been full, had each car been accounted for? I mean for example, if everyone in that building with a car, or a visitors car identified their vehicle and where it was parked, it might turn up a gap in this 5N lot. For example, if there were 10 cars total, but 6 said they parked in the gravel lot or on the other side of Morton, and yet there if there are 5 spaces behind 5N and all of them said it was full, then who did the 11th vehicle belong to? In such a parking situation, people tend to "claim" a spot and regularly park there. They also get to know the adjacent cars pretty well. So if that night, someone's usual spot where filled, causing them to park elsewhere, they likely would have remembered and noticed the vehicle or perhaps out of state tags. My understanding of that 5 N building was that there were not many people living there - a handful, and including visitors not more than 10 vehicles. Is that correct?

24 bedrooms across 6 units. It's rather impossible for us to know how many people were still around all together and how many of them had cars or visitors. I really really hope LE knocked on all of the doors there to at least get a statement from anyone home that night.

2) Still not understanding why LE can say that one 4:15 call was to DR, but the other 4:15 call was to a "Male friend" that LS was also with earlier. Is this some POI that has as of yet not been named? Or was it perhaps a call back to CR? A call to CR would not add up, and so could see withholding that, because it would point more squarely at JR tying up loose ends. It also clearly is not a call to JW. And remember, these are not calls being made from LS's phone. These are numbers that JR already had, showing the closeness of the parties here.

LE hasn't said a call was to DR or mentioned calls at all, so if you are referring to Lohud's reporter not naming who the other call was to, perhaps it was told to him in the same manner or they are showing restraint in dragging another individual's name into the fray.

 

[VeryVeritas]

All fair questions, however just wanted to clear up that the white truck camera faces toward 10th and therefore wouldn't necessarily have any bearing on providing a leave time for any 5North visitor.



24 bedrooms across 6 units. It's rather impossible for us to know how many people were still around all together and how many of them had cars or visitors. I really really hope LE knocked on all of the doors there to at least get a statement from anyone home that night.



LE hasn't said a call was to DR or mentioned calls at all, so if you are referring to Lohud's reporter not naming who the other call was to, perhaps it was told to him in the same manner or they are showing restraint in dragging another individual's name into the fray.

Ok CR/MB's unit had 2. JR's Unit had 2 (at least that we know of). Averaging out 2 per unit would be 12. But yes, some may have left already. So, I still figure 10 cars or less and approx 5 spots behind 5N unless someone can correct more specifically.

 

[sammi89]

1a) Where did JR's visitor park? What kind of vehicle was this? I would think that the cams that caught the white truck, would have caught this vehicle leaving and so LE should know the exact time and whether this conflicts with statements from JR and/or the visitor. But then, was this the only visitor? Just when did JR's vistor leave?

1b) If JR regularly parked on the other side of Morton, and people often also parked in the gravel lot because the ominous blind area behind 5N was often full... just who was parking there? 5N did not seem to have a lot of residents. Who else parked behind it? We know that CR's car was searched, was his behind 5N or was it in the Gravel lot that night? Where was MB's car? Just how many cars fit there behind 5N, not including the gravel lot? At that hour it should have been full, had each car been accounted for? I mean for example, if everyone in that building with a car, or a visitors car identified their vehicle and where it was parked, it might turn up a gap in this 5N lot. For example, if there were 10 cars total, but 6 said they parked in the gravel lot or on the other side of Morton, and yet there if there are 5 spaces behind 5N and all of them said it was full, then who did the 11th vehicle belong to? In such a parking situation, people tend to "claim" a spot and regularly park there. They also get to know the adjacent cars pretty well. So if that night, someone's usual spot where filled, causing them to park elsewhere, they likely would have remembered and noticed the vehicle or perhaps out of state tags. My understanding of that 5 N building was that there were not many people living there - a handful, and including visitors not more than 10 vehicles. Is that correct?


2) Still not understanding why LE can say that one 4:15 call was to DR, but the other 4:15 call was to a "Male friend" that LS was also with earlier. Is this some POI that has as of yet not been named? Or was it perhaps a call back to CR? A call to CR would not add up, and so could see withholding that, because it would point more squarely at JR tying up loose ends. It also clearly is not a call to JW. And remember, these are not calls being made from LS's phone. These are numbers that JR already had, showing the closeness of the parties here.

Hey all, I don't regularly post but I've had a few thoughts:

I've often wondered about the second phone call. It seems like it would certainly be important for a few reasons: a) it was someone who had been with Lauren earlier and the fact that whoever it was is characterized as "being with Lauren earlier" signifies that she actually did know the person and spent time with them (as opposed to simply being at the same place at the same time); b) it was a MALE (reoccurring theme throughout and her being inebriated and attractive shows how this might, might, MIGHT be a factor - I don't want to make any conclusions on that though); and c) JR knew this person and also knew him well enough to have his phone number. That actually should narrow down who it could have been significantly because BOTH Lauren and JR knew this person, this person was a male, and he was present earlier AND spent time with Lauren.

Personally, I think that points to CR or MB. DR was named as one of the two calls, so that would eliminate him. Although there were certainly other people present at the party, it seems like Lauren spent most of her time with CR. Any visitors that were visiting JR would, at that time, probably already be at JR's so there would be no need to call them.

I lean toward MB because he has been painted as being sober that night (working on his paper). This is one way that all of these boys could be involved because MB could have answered and dragged CR over to help if the call was really more along the lines of, "something is not right. there is bruising, she can't stand, what did she take, what did you guys do with her, etc. etc."

I also think MB should be looked at much more closely. His story is the one I have noticed as consistently changing and the fact that he was supposedly "sober" makes me wonder, of all of them, who was the one capable of actually pulling off something like this IF she was not abducted?

Regardless, others have pointed out she could have returned to CR & MB's. It is also possible that one or both of them could have seen her leave and followed her, even if it was initially meant to be an innocent, "are you okay?" and something happened.

 

[imkeylime]

1a) Where did JR's visitor park? What kind of vehicle was this? I would think that the cams that caught the white truck, would have caught this vehicle leaving and so LE should know the exact time and whether this conflicts with statements from JR and/or the visitor. But then, was this the only visitor? Just when did JR's vistor leave?

1b) If JR regularly parked on the other side of Morton, and people often also parked in the gravel lot because the ominous blind area behind 5N was often full... just who was parking there? 5N did not seem to have a lot of residents. Who else parked behind it? We know that CR's car was searched, was his behind 5N or was it in the Gravel lot that night? Where was MB's car? Just how many cars fit there behind 5N, not including the gravel lot? At that hour it should have been full, had each car been accounted for? I mean for example, if everyone in that building with a car, or a visitors car identified their vehicle and where it was parked, it might turn up a gap in this 5N lot. For example, if there were 10 cars total, but 6 said they parked in the gravel lot or on the other side of Morton, and yet there if there are 5 spaces behind 5N and all of them said it was full, then who did the 11th vehicle belong to? In such a parking situation, people tend to "claim" a spot and regularly park there. They also get to know the adjacent cars pretty well. So if that night, someone's usual spot where filled, causing them to park elsewhere, they likely would have remembered and noticed the vehicle or perhaps out of state tags. My understanding of that 5 N building was that there were not many people living there - a handful, and including visitors not more than 10 vehicles. Is that correct?


2) Still not understanding why LE can say that one 4:15 call was to DR, but the other 4:15 call was to a "Male friend" that LS was also with earlier. Is this some POI that has as of yet not been named? Or was it perhaps a call back to CR? A call to CR would not add up, and so could see withholding that, because it would point more squarely at JR tying up loose ends. It also clearly is not a call to JW. And remember, these are not calls being made from LS's phone. These are numbers that JR already had, showing the closeness of the parties here.

In addition to agreeing wth bx2's comments, I'd think the 5N residents had parking stickers providing them with access to the closer lots, hence the gravel lot served as overflow parking for guests. I realize 5N isn't university housing, but I'd think the 5N residents' vehicles would be registered.

If LS did pass out or OD on the way to 5N, would CR have put her down somewhere and left to get help? Or he could have taken her to 5N where she expired or was assaulted and then disposed of (horrible image).

I've noticed that there's a wooden fence around the dumpster. I wonder if it's possible that someone temporarily put her inside that, by the dumpster, hence a dog hit (???), and then moved her via car afterward.

 

[Seagull]

In addition to agreeing wth bx2's comments, I'd think the 5N residents had parking stickers providing them with access to the closer lots, hence the gravel lot served as overflow parking for guests. I realize 5N isn't university housing, but I'd think the 5N residents' vehicles would be registered.

If LS did pass out or OD on the way to 5N, would CR have put her down somewhere and left to get help? Or he could have taken her to 5N where she expired or was assaulted and then disposed of (horrible image).

I've noticed that there's a wooden fence around the dumpster. I wonder if it's possible that someone temporarily put her inside that, by the dumpster, hence a dog hit (???), and then moved her via car afterward.

Agreed. This has been my theory as of late, too -- that somehow, during the "walk" in the alley, LS fell down again and CR was too tired or inebriated to fuss with her anymore and left her (perhaps very near the dumpster just by happenstance).

Then maybe when he got home, he said something (likely very vague since he was allegedly pretty out of it) to MB, who then panicked and went to JR or even went out to the alley to check and found her passed out or expired. Maybe even he and JR looked together (pure speculation) and then were forced to make a plan of what to do next -- calls to DR and other dude were part of that.

Then, whatever happened next happened via the gravel lot (i remember reading somewhere that the scent ended there with one dog).

This would be one explanation for the seemingly lack of focus (re: dogs/scents) on 5N.

 

[imkeylime]

Agreed. This has been my theory as of late, too -- that somehow, during the "walk" in the alley, LS fell down again and CR was too tired or inebriated to fuss with her anymore and left her (perhaps very near the dumpster just by happenstance).

Then maybe when he got home, he said something (likely very vague since he was allegedly pretty out of it) to MB, who then panicked and went to JR or even went out to the alley to check and found her passed out or expired. Maybe even he and JR looked together (pure speculation) and then were forced to make a plan of what to do next -- calls to DR and other dude were part of that.

Then, whatever happened next happened via the gravel lot (i remember reading somewhere that the scent ended there with one dog).

This would be one explanation for the seemingly lack of focus (re: dogs/scents) on 5N.

I can envision something on those lines ... and it would account for MB's conflicting versions of what happened that night.