IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Ixchel13]

Also, after the first party at JRs, some of the party went to SW to watch the game
w. LS and her roommates. LS and DR then go to Kilroys. IMO, some of the party may have gone the opposite direction to 10th and College.
At 4:15, JR made 2 calls. One to DR, and one to an unidentified male that had been watching the game at SW with Lauren and roommates and....? DR didn't answer, but we are not told who the other guy is and what the call resulted in. He could've been at 10th and College with those girls who wouldn't let her in.
If this guy has a tight alibi, then what he told LE could be what is holding up the forwarding of the POIs to suspects and arresting them. Maybe this guy talked to Lauren. Or says he did. Then there would only be after 4:15 to worry about, and JRs KISS
story would be plausible. If he is lying, this would be his wrap up; if he is telling the truth, it could be stranger/acquaintence abduction.
We only have to look at the minutes Mickey had between leaving Brettly's and being abducted. Was it even 10 minutes? And I agree with VV, it really could be only a 1% chance of this but there it was.
To solve this, no stone should be left unturned. In looking for a stranger, we could find the friend who did it. In looking for the friend who did it, we could discover the stranger. In saying we I def include everyone especially LE!

 

[Snapfade]

Also, after the first party at JRs, some of the party went to SW to watch the game
w. LS and her roommates. LS and DR then go to Kilroys. IMO, some of the party may have gone the opposite direction to 10th and College.
At 4:15, JR made 2 calls. One to DR, and one to an unidentified male that had been watching the game at SW with Lauren and roommates and....? DR didn't answer, but we are not told who the other guy is and what the call resulted in. He could've been at 10th and College with those girls who wouldn't let her in.
If this guy has a tight alibi, then what he told LE could be what is holding up the forwarding of the POIs to suspects and arresting them. Maybe this guy talked to Lauren. Or says he did. Then there would only be after 4:15 to worry about, and JRs KISS
story would be plausible. If he is lying, this would be his wrap up; if he is telling the truth, it could be stranger/acquaintence abduction.
We only have to look at the minutes Mickey had between leaving Brettly's and being abducted. Was it even 10 minutes? And I agree with VV, it really could be only a 1% chance of this but there it was.
To solve this, no stone should be left unturned. In looking for a stranger, we could find the friend who did it. In looking for the friend who did it, we could discover the stranger. In saying we I def include everyone especially LE!

what makes you think there were 2 parties at Jr's ,I only know of one party , it was during nba finals. (I believe the pregame reference is to the pre party before main event at Kilroys) As a matter fact, I believe the game was over before Lauren even left Smallwood. She was not going to Jr's to watch a basketball game..IMO she was going there to meet up with CR.

I'm glad somebody brought up that JW may not be an angel himself when it comes to drugs....However , it appears that he may not be into as serious as drugs as what this younger crowd was at 5N and SW. .These opinions are based on rumors only... and if they're true it wouldn't surprise me if he was sound asleep like he has said.

 

[Ixchel13]

what makes you think there were 2 parties at Jr's ,I only know of one party , it was during nba finals. (I believe the pregame reference is to the pre party before main event at Kilroys) As a matter fact, I believe the game was over before Lauren even left Smallwood. She was not going to Jr's to watch a basketball game..IMO she was going there to meet up with CR.

I'm glad somebody brought up that JW may not be an angel himself when it comes to drugs....However , it appears that he may not be into as serious as drugs as what this younger crowd was at 5N and SW. .These opinions are based on rumors only... and if they're true it wouldn't surprise me if he was sound asleep like he has said.

Definition of 'party':
3 or more people gathered, doing recreational drugs and other people showing up and leaving intermittedly and returning all evening including party
thrower(s).

Possible/Probable parties going on that evening

Party at JR's. No one said it ever ended or he left his apt.
Party at SW. Lauren's roommates were watching the game with other people. Was DB over there? DB could've followed LS there after pre-party at JR's. JR never places his houseguest there during the time LS was there the second time. Did he go to Lauren;s, watch the game and then go to 10th and College?
Party at 10th and College Something was happening there because
LS was trying to get in there.
Party at JW IIRC he was watching the game with friends. Either he
was at home (party) at Kilroys (public party) or at another friends' (party)

 

[VeryVeritas]

Then why all the posts about heroin and "pharm parties"?

Recently I only listed Heroin only 1 time along with a list of other drug related stories that involved Lauren. The point was to put the whole spectrum out there as I'd not seen it listed for quite some time. You are the one that jumped on the mention of Heroin and why myself and others responded.

The Pharm Parties are a totally different and I wanted opinions about Pharm parties... if such parties are going on in the area, if people around the CR/MB/JR group have participated in Pharm Parties, or the likelihood that this is what happened THAT night. It has not been discussed and I wanted people to discuss it. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Above bbm.. same for me.. The fact that there is just so damn little info, with nearly nil forward movement makes Lauren's case one of several that I've followed from the Get-Go but sadly have nothing personally to add that's not already being expressed and discussed..

I believe there's likely many of us that quietly follow along and don't go a day without thinking of the sad fact that tiny Lauren remains missing, and thus her precious family left in the hell on earth limbo of JUST NOT KNOWING.

As far as the above not being likely that this group of hard partying college kids would be able to get away with AND have so very effectively and efficiently covered AND concealed all of their tracks..well..IMO I respectfully, yet STRONGLY disagree.. one need not look any further than the group down in Satsuma, FL who are a helluva alot less capable, intelligent, savvy, wealthy, and even younger THAN THESE INDIVIDUALS IN BLOOMINGTON...yet they've managed for going on 4 years to get away with, cover, conceal, and successfully dispose of sweet little Haleigh Cummings...

so, IMO it hasn't anything to do with whether these POI's in Lauren's case are capable..IMO THEYRE MORE THAN CAPABLE...JMO,THO.


ITA deca and know firsthand that the dynamics of that early summer night of partying is absolutely SOP(Standard Operating Procedure) for a large percentage of young adults, especially that live on/near college campuses..

it IMO absolutely makes these young adults extremely vulnerable to any type predatory individuals(both individuals known to them as well as strangers).. along with having their inhibitions lowered(some just flat out zero inhibitions in this state of mind) they also have their defenses lowered or non existent..making them targeted, easy prey for the predatory individuals around them, or that they by happenstance cross paths with while in this completely unguarded state of mind..

IMO on the morning of Lauren's disappearance she was at the utmost of vulnerable, Even more so than normally ..and that's not just strictly to her being extremely wasted drunk/high, but even down to physically OVERLY VULNERABLE(even including hobbling barefoot), as well as NOT EVEN HAVING cell phone...

whether intentional or not she was EXTREMELY RIPE FOR THE PICKINS'(for extreme lack of a better phrase at this moment).. my point is simply that on this specific night/morning that Lauren disappeared she was EVEN MORE SO THAN USUAL extremely vulnerable and at an extreme disadvantage..and IMO that DISADVANTAGE definitely worked to the ADVANTAGE of the person(s) responsible for her disappearance that early June morning...jmo


above bbm.
Strictly Moo but this just isn't accurate, in fact IMO its much the opposite in that extremely drunk and/or high on benzos individuals are often very anxious to find someone to "party" with..or better yet someone who has the "party" that they're most in search of..that being something to in their minds "set them straight", sober them up, clear the haze, etc, etc whatever one chooses to call it...the point is they're looking for a bump, a line, a hit of cocaine, adderall, etc... or anything that has that similar effect of making the user feel more "alert", straight, or clear headed...

we know..or I should more accurately say we've discussed at great length and several of us are of the strong opinion these pharmaceuticals(both legal/illegal) were NOT unusual to be used by Lauren and friends.. and its exactly why I don't find it at all UNBELIEVABLE or FAR FETCHED that Lauren in those early morning hours was wanting a little something to "sober her up" and that IMO I find it very plausible that she easily could have achieved this from any number of various sources in/around 5N...

Lauren having gotten a bump or line of any number different stimulants WOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY 100+% altered her ability to walk, her slurred speech could have been much clearer, if not clear, as well as the extreme feeling of euphoric high would have kicked in which as many know leave one with the feelings of being invincible(thus bull headed and determined to walk home, alone, barefoot, with no phone, no wallet, ID, or keys)..

In fact tho,I am in no way stating it as fact that Lauren did INDEED SET OFF ALONE WALKING TO SW, I do however find it not only plausible, but absolutely possible..jmo

Continuing to pray that Lauren's precious family be granted AT THE VERY LEAST the solace and somewhat peace of mind in JUST KNOWING what/where their beautiful, tiny, young daughter Lauren is..the hell of JUST NOT KNOWING if she is even dead or alive has literally already taken such an obvious and drastic toll on them physically and mentally..

The evidence of LS falling down in the elevator at SW, falling down and slamming her head from a sitting position at 10th and College, the falling down face first without bringing her hands up to block fall (indicating she was blacked out), reports of her not being able to talk, foaming at the mount, do not add up to someone bouncing up and wanting to party a few minutes later. I don't buy it. And there is no proof what drug she ingested, only that certain types of drugs or combinations are likely responsible for this effect. As far as I'm concerned the VIDEOS are the truth and CR/MB/JR are the liars. There is too big of a disconnect.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I see a lot of people saying "well there is no way THOSE people or THAT person could have done this and left little or no evidence!" but I think I have read Websleuths so much now that it seems easy to get away with crimes. I know that is probably wrong, but the sheer number of unsolved cases on here is staggering to me. A lot of them also have an obvious suspect and very few of those suspects are criminal masterminds or geniuses. It almost seems like more of a miracle when they DO leave enough forensic evidence and get arrested for it.

I probably sound very cynical-I know the numbers probably seem skewed to me just because of visiting this site and focusing on unsolved cases. I do never underestimate someone's ability to disappear someone though

Our national priorities are really out of kilter. We spend a trillion per year on invisible threats and yes meanwhile there are scumbags right next door who never get caught. Would be nice to have the FBI work all missing persons cases in the USA. Care to help convince congress? Or should everyone walk around dressed in Kevlar and carry Glocks? Some of the things people can rationalize as a society seem mystifying, but it's not.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I have never really thought Lauren was trying to get away from CR. I do think at some point she lost consciousness or as good as lost consciousness though which makes what happened afterward with her and CR more problematic.

That's fine... then how would you explain her attempt to get to the 3 girls at 10th and College. If she were not trying to avoid going to 5N... what was she trying to do. She obviously was no condition to be looking for random parties, she had no phone, no shoes and at that building suffers serious injuries. In that state of consciousness if it doesn't seem plausible that she was looking for help... (especially if she couldn't talk), then what does it seem like to you?

 

[VeryVeritas]

I agree its difficult to discern exactly where the female witness' account ends and when the account of the last video footage from cam near Rossman's apt begins/ends...

For instance I was under the impression the female witness' acct begins around the time that they stop for the first seat on the steps out front apt building..Lauren two steps higher than Rossman...that the witness not only SEES, BUT ALSO HEARS the loud sound of Lauren slumping over on concrete steps and banging her head on the concrete...

I then understand that Rossman helped her up and they walked into the apt building and knocked on the door of 4 girls they were partying with earlier in the night...when they got no answer about a minute later they reappeared outside on the concrete steps to which they again sat down(I was understanding this to still be the acct of the female witness, right?)

at that point again Lauren is seen very messed up and literally seeming to slump, fall, etc,.. that Rossman gets her up from the steps to head onto his apt(Lauren leaves behind her keys AND ID on steps)... I was still under the impression as this acct coming from witness...

at that point Lauren and Rossman go into an alley heading to his apt..that Lauren literally went face first into the asphalt WITHOUT SO MUCH AS EVEN PUTTING HER ARMS OUT TO BRACE HERSELF AS SHE FELL FACE FIRST INTO ASPHALT!<-- This I was unclear on whether it came from witness acct or the video footage near the alleyway??

Rossman again picks her up and they keep heading to his apt.. shortly thereafter Lauren again collapses and falls to the ground...at that point Rossman slings her on his back with her arms slung over each shoulder and held by him while she dangled off his back, rather than grasping on with her legs as one would do "piggy back".. as Abbey says above PI is clear on the fact that Lauren was definitely still alive and somewhat conscious AT THAT POINT IN TIME...<--IMO I was under the impression this last SIGHTING WAS ALSO THE WITNESS, CORRECT?

So, when and what was seen on the video footage last seen of Lauren and Rossman from one of the cams near his apt?

TIA for any clarification anyone can provide

Thanks for that.... that's very close to the way I understood it. Especially your last paragraph. And when i said it that way there were numerous posts that said the PI's were referring to CR carrying LS BEFORE she fell face down in the alley. And so, since there was no camera after the alley exit... IF, YES IF CR picked LS up and carried her, then there must be an eyewitness. Who is that witness? That witness is not the bartender witness. So, you are the first person to state this the way i understood it from the video... that CR was seen carrying LS to 5N and that LS was definitely alive at that point. Would definitely like some confirmation on this interpretation from PI's since they are the ones that said it. Would hope that they read WS!

 

[Snapfade]

Our national priorities are really out of kilter. We spend a trillion per year on invisible threats and yes meanwhile there are scumbags right next door who never get caught. Would be nice to have the FBI work all missing persons cases in the USA. Care to help convince congress? Or should everyone walk around dressed in Kevlar and carry Glocks? Some of the things people can rationalize as a society seem mystifying, but it's not.

I can say , with some degree of certainty, that the FBI was involved pretty early in the investgation of LS missing. They had up to 3 agents that traveled to bloomington. They definitely had investigative tools and resources to draw from that were not available to local LE..
How long they were in Bloomington assisting in the invesigation ? I Dont Know, but it was at least until the Landfill wa searched.

 

[AbbeyR]

Posted on Official Lauren Spierer Updates from Her Family today:

Despite what you may think, despite the amount of time that has past, we will never forget Lauren. We will never forget June 3, 2011. We will never forget the lack of compassion you have shown our family. We will never forget how we have begged for your help and how you continue to refuse. With the New Year, our resolve to find out what happened is ever stronger. The love we have for Lauren drives us beyond anything you can imagine. We remain ever determined&#8230;.

Charlene Spierer

Find Lauren
PO Box 1226
Bloomington, IN 47402

Tipline 812.339.4477

helpfindlauren@gmail.com

Hoping the New Year brings answers and justice for Lauren.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I know I can't state an opinion as fact but I when I woke up, my eyes flew open and I don't know where it came from but I "just knew". They moved her in a moving van. A rented moving van wrapped in those grey moving blankets. Not a truck, a van, with sliding side doors. I have absolutely no proof of this and I have no reason or information at all to make me believe this and so I'm not even going to say who I think "they" are when I make a statement like this. So, it's my opinion, but for the record,
I've never had an opinion like this.
Is there some way to find out who had access to a moving van?

 

[Ixchel13]

I know I can't state an opinion as fact but I when I woke up, my eyes flew open and I don't know where it came from but I "just knew". They moved her in a moving van. A rented moving van wrapped in those grey moving blankets. Not a truck, a van, with sliding side doors. I have absolutely no proof of this and I have no reason or information at all to make me believe this and so I'm not even going to say who I think "they" are when I make a statement like this. So, it's my opinion, but for the record,
I've never had an opinion like this.
Is there some way to find out who had access to a moving van?

bbm. ZO's dad owns a furniture outlet. Otherwise, lots of moving vans around that time of year, lots of people here have little side businesses moving people, easy to be invisible around there because everyone is always moving in and out of apts all down the street in question. IMO I wouldn't discount
thoughts like that because it's not really just psychic but you're also processing thousands of ideas and facts and fitting them in with a specific area and moving van would be a very good theory.

IMO, Charlene Spierer's last open letter clearly states that the family is not going to forgive anyone now who comes forward, well she used the word forget. IMO, they have accepted she is most likely not alive.
Even if the POIs, and the friends who aren't POIs (but might of been able to shed light on others not accounted for), even if they didn't dispose of Lauren, she is not going to forgive them for clamming up.

I don't blame her one iota. Even if the roommates, POIs, and the people we don't know of are only keeping quiet because of drug dealing, that isn't her
problem. Because it may be a murder and not just a cover up OD, the family deserves to know who EVERYBODY was who came into contact with LS at
any of these parties. It's not an invasion of privacy--not like someone fell and broke their arm.

IMO, the message needs to go out all over this town that if you're drugging and drinking it up at a party (parties) and someone turns up missing or dead from that party, you at least need to be questioned. People need to wise up and start taking responsibility for their actions--if they're old enough to live alone, then they are old enough to be punished by the full force of the law for what they take part in. It's called visiting a dive and you can be arrested for it, at least questioned. Something like "Lauren's Law" could be enacted..

People are not exactly guilty when they are using drugs at a party and someone goes missing, but are they really totally innocent? Seems more like they dodged a bullet, what could have happened to them happened to another guest. Either you start doing drugs when you arrive at a party, thus being part of the problem; or you take heed of what's going on around you and leave immediately. That, IMO, is the only solution if you want to be innocent when questioned if someone dies.


They need to drag everyone in, the more the merrier, so that people start talking. It would be especially unnerving to these kids when they think it's just about been forgotten by LE and then, Bam! they want to talk to everyone, and I mean everyone, who was at these parties. More likely that these are the people who would have heard the most rumors, gossip, or even confessions from the main players, including those roommates LS.

I'm not sure if LE has a list of people who were at these various parties
and how they moved around. For example, if AB was holding down the fort at 10th and College while ZO was confronting CR at SW, who was there?
Were HT and BW making the rounds or holding down the fort at their apt?
If JR called the second guy at 4:15, the one who was watching the game w. Lauren at SW, maybe someone else was around when he got the call. The question I would want to know is, where was everyone at 4:15?

 

[VeryVeritas]

I know I can't state an opinion as fact but I when I woke up, my eyes flew open and I don't know where it came from but I "just knew". They moved her in a moving van. A rented moving van wrapped in those grey moving blankets. Not a truck, a van, with sliding side doors. I have absolutely no proof of this and I have no reason or information at all to make me believe this and so I'm not even going to say who I think "they" are when I make a statement like this. So, it's my opinion, but for the record,
I've never had an opinion like this.
Is there some way to find out who had access to a moving van?

Intuition is a powerful thing. Thanks for having the courage to post.

Working with the moving van idea... If we had access to videos that would be something to check. But then where does the van go? Does it go to a storage facility? A warehouse perhaps? There are places where a moving van looks normal and where it would seem out of place. Such a van could be related to construction in the area too, even if a rental. Maybe someone was loading their stuff up in one of these for summer or for good? A graduating senior perhaps? If it were a rental, there would only be so many of these vans in the immediate area. Certainly a list that LE could cross check. I wondered why LE fixated on that White Truck. Perhaps someone saw something or the alley video had the front of a while vehicle that looked like a truck, but instead it was really a White Van?

 

[Ixchel13]

ok this will get me kicked off, but about intuition, and the psychic thing concerning this case. We all know Chick Justin had a brush with the law, heck she filmed herself getting arrested and somehow managed to communicate from the loony bin...anyway, a very brilliant person; what she was discovering was making her come unhinged however.
People think psychics have powers, or think they have powers but they don't. They seem to be receptive for thoughts and ideas. Not the case with this one, but some of them don't even understand what they're receiving.
I followed the same psychic's directions, but ended up way east of CJ. It led to a gate. Back in town, I looked up the name on the gate, which led to a property just up the block from 11th. Right across the RR underpass from this address was House Bar, which made a kind of triangle from JRs and very near where a now missing witness heard a scream. To me, all of those things the psychic said that led me 10 miles into the countryside and back, and the property and owner meant nothing, all of it was just to bring me back to that area and say, she left the apartment. Cold logic and all percentages point against this but I think it's true.

Chick Justin, however, had the personal misfortune to go a little more west and the psychic led her to a policeman's house. This became a horrible unfolding of her accusations, and really some of them seemed to be right on if everything the psychic said was true (!)-but then she got arrested.

Weirdest thing is, there is a sex offender with the same last name who lives almost exactly between the two routes we took. I just found that the other day and made the connection. The name is very common around here. So yes it could be serendipity that led me to a spot and her to a name but I find it eerie.

Sorry to be all over the board with theories. When this first happened, I was certain it was stranger abduction, that 1%. Maybe it's because I've seen what goes on there
at night on that block. Put in residents of the apts and add in the specific acquaintances
to the equation and the percetage goes to 25% IMO.

Although I would not be surprised if tomorrow all the POIs confessed to a conspiracy, it is within the 25%, and within that the 1%, that I spend my time worrying about and wondering about. I see Lauren's posters up and think it's a comfort that they are still up.

I've never stopped thinking about her, and her family. As I work with these kids now I hear their stories and want to exclaim to them, "wtf are you doing!?" Instead I always say, "When you are out, never leave your crowd. If you get separated, call a cab".

Also, they need to crack down on the bars here. PI is PI. Why can they obviously get someone publicly intoxicated, but if that person walks outside, they can be arrested? Bloomington makes alot of money on PI tickets, and the bars make a fortune on these kids.They are issued tickets and walk on home, rarely are they taken in.

 

[Darcyline]

That's fine... then how would you explain her attempt to get to the 3 girls at 10th and College. If she were not trying to avoid going to 5N... what was she trying to do. She obviously was no condition to be looking for random parties, she had no phone, no shoes and at that building suffers serious injuries. In that state of consciousness if it doesn't seem plausible that she was looking for help... (especially if she couldn't talk), then what does it seem like to you?

I honestly feel like at this point Lauren was loaded. Blitzed. In that weird moment of intoxication where you think you can party forever with everyone or you may be unconscious in five seconds. I have never really considered that at this point she was with it enough to think I don't have my phone I need help let me go get help. I have seen plenty of girls (and even been this girl) before and I have never seen one of them ask for help even if they needed it. I have seen plenty of people of every gender not in the condition to party and still looking to party.
I hope I am referring to the same thing as you though-knocking on the girls' doors?

 

[Ros]

Also, they need to crack down on the bars here. PI is PI. Why can they obviously get someone publicly intoxicated, but if that person walks outside, they can be arrested? Bloomington makes a lot of money on PI tickets, and the bars make a fortune on these kids.They are issued tickets and walk on home, rarely are they taken in.

The Indiana General Assembly changed the PI law in 2012. Bloomington is less likely to be making money from PI convictions, and I am not sure they ever did because of the associated court costs, probation officer costs, etc. It is no longer enough just to be drunk in public. Your state of intoxication has to be such that it is causing a problem:

IC 7.1-5-1-3
Public intoxication prohibited; failure to enforce by a law enforcement officer
Sec. 3. (a) Subject to section 6.5 of this chapter, it is a Class B misdemeanor for a person to be in a public place or a place of public resort in a state of intoxication caused by the person's use of alcohol or a controlled substance (as defined in IC 35-48-1-9), if the person:
(1) endangers the person's life;
(2) endangers the life of another person;
(3) breaches the peace or is in imminent danger of breaching the peace; or
(4) harasses, annoys, or alarms another person.
(b) A person may not initiate or maintain an action against a law enforcement officer based on the officer's failure to enforce this section.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title7.1/ar5/ch1.html

 

[akh]

I thought the way money was made was not necessarily the fines but the deferment option that most (all?) were offered (which would then minimize court costs (expenses)). And the deferment payment would be forfeited and the fine then charged if the person didn't fly straight and narrow for whatever period of time the deferment required. Which I'm not sure whether the system allows repeat offenders before invoking this or not. Or if they allow more than 1 deferral.

They might not call it 'deferral' but it's the same thing...

 

[Btown]

I thought the way money was made was not necessarily the fines but the deferment option

They might not call it 'deferral' but it's the same thing...

Monroe County Pre-Trial Diversion Program (PDP)

I agree with you.

 

[Ros]

Monroe County also has an "earned dismissal" program.
http://www.shapirolozano.com/resources/glossary/bloomington-attorney-glossary-e-g/

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm sure you guys have all read about the Steubenville gang rape case by now. Watching the video released by Anonymous and hearing how these guys talked about rape and their victim is seriously disturbing. More disturbing is the laughter you can hear in the background, knowing how many people knew about this and did nothing. One parallel with Lauren's case, is that throughout the night, people saw these guys carrying around an unconscious victim (she had been drugged) and all they did was take pictures and tweet about it. Until the video and other info was released (and even still) the football players, their lawyers and coaches have tried to make it sound like this was just a night of partying and blamed the victim.

The video is here:
http://localleaks.blogs.ru/

NYT article

While a lot of the media attention is on the football team and local politics in
this case, others are writing about the underlying 'rape culture' that allows things like this to happen. (I.e. How were those guys able to carry around and assault a fifteen-year-old girl at parties with many people around, and then tweet about her being a drunken *advertiser censored* and think they could get away with it? Because they could).

I wanted to post this article by Peggy Sanday, who studies rape on college campuses:

Why don't some boys see it as rape?

One of the clauses of the Ohio law states that sexual activity is not permissible when "the other person's ability to resist or consent is substantially impaired because of a mental or physical condition or because of advanced age, and the offender knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the other person's ability to resist or consent is substantially impaired because of a mental or physical condition or because of advanced age."

The girl's incapacity comes not just from the multiple mentions of her being dead in the video. There is also possibly a photo of her being dragged along held by her wrists and ankles by two boys.

In the United States, surveys administered from the early 1980s to the present indicate that 20% to 25% of female students say they have experienced nonconsensual sex by the age of 21. Every year, a high-profile case of gang rape appears in the news. With each new report, many Americans react with shock.

Confronted with such cases, many explain it away, thinking or actually saying "she wanted it." Why do we think this way? Doing so is behind the strange idea of "legitimate rape." When will our sexual culture change so that an inebriated girl (or boy) is protected rather than abused?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/04/opinion/sanday-ohio-rape/index.html

Reading about this case also makes me realize that it's very easy to make assumptions based on what we hear from LE or in the media, but who knows what is going on beneath the surface.