IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

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The Steubenville case is a reality check that seemingly normal people can do terrible things while others stand by, and that friends, parents, law officials, etc. may have their own interests that outweigh truth or justice.

But it's also a reminder that the truth can come out at any time -- you never know when someone's going to step up or how powerful it can be when that happens.

I really hope that the POI, and anyone who stood by or covered for someone else in Lauren's case, are watching this all unfold very carefully.
 
bbm. ZO's dad owns a furniture outlet. Otherwise, lots of moving vans around that time of year, lots of people here have little side businesses moving people, easy to be invisible around there because everyone is always moving in and out of apts all down the street in question. IMO I wouldn't discount
thoughts like that because it's not really just psychic but you're also processing thousands of ideas and facts and fitting them in with a specific area and moving van would be a very good theory.

IMO, Charlene Spierer's last open letter clearly states that the family is not going to forgive anyone now who comes forward, well she used the word forget. IMO, they have accepted she is most likely not alive.
Even if the POIs, and the friends who aren't POIs (but might of been able to shed light on others not accounted for), even if they didn't dispose of Lauren, she is not going to forgive them for clamming up.

I don't blame her one iota. Even if the roommates, POIs, and the people we don't know of are only keeping quiet because of drug dealing, that isn't her
problem. Because it may be a murder and not just a cover up OD, the family deserves to know who EVERYBODY was who came into contact with LS at
any of these parties. It's not an invasion of privacy--not like someone fell and broke their arm.

IMO, the message needs to go out all over this town that if you're drugging and drinking it up at a party (parties) and someone turns up missing or dead from that party, you at least need to be questioned. People need to wise up and start taking responsibility for their actions--if they're old enough to live alone, then they are old enough to be punished by the full force of the law for what they take part in. It's called visiting a dive and you can be arrested for it, at least questioned. Something like "Lauren's Law" could be enacted..

People are not exactly guilty when they are using drugs at a party and someone goes missing, but are they really totally innocent? Seems more like they dodged a bullet, what could have happened to them happened to another guest. Either you start doing drugs when you arrive at a party, thus being part of the problem; or you take heed of what's going on around you and leave immediately. That, IMO, is the only solution if you want to be innocent when questioned if someone dies.

They need to drag everyone in, the more the merrier, so that people start talking. It would be especially unnerving to these kids when they think it's just about been forgotten by LE and then, Bam! they want to talk to everyone, and I mean everyone, who was at these parties. More likely that these are the people who would have heard the most rumors, gossip, or even confessions from the main players, including those roommates LS.

I'm not sure if LE has a list of people who were at these various parties
and how they moved around. For example, if AB was holding down the fort at 10th and College while ZO was confronting CR at SW, who was there?
Were HT and BW making the rounds or holding down the fort at their apt?
If JR called the second guy at 4:15, the one who was watching the game w. Lauren at SW, maybe someone else was around when he got the call. The question I would want to know is, where was everyone at 4:15?

and also quoting VeryVeritas below (cut and pasted VV's quote below. I don't know how to quote multiple people within one response)

[/QUOTE]VeryVeritas


Intuition is a powerful thing. Thanks for having the courage to post.

Working with the moving van idea... If we had access to videos that would be something to check. But then where does the van go? Does it go to a storage facility? A warehouse perhaps? There are places where a moving van looks normal and where it would seem out of place. Such a van could be related to construction in the area too, even if a rental. Maybe someone was loading their stuff up in one of these for summer or for good? A graduating senior perhaps? If it were a rental, there would only be so many of these vans in the immediate area. Certainly a list that LE could cross check. I wondered why LE fixated on that White Truck. Perhaps someone saw something or the alley video had the front of a while vehicle that looked like a truck, but instead it was really a White Van?[/QUOTE]

end quotes.

Thank you both for that, I was concerned about posting that and was a little worried about how I worded it. I do want to clarify though, I don't claim any special abilities, I don't have any, and this didn't feel like any kind of vision or anything supernatural or anything like that. It's a little hard to explain. I'm not even sure that the term 'intuition' isn't an overstatement or more dramatic that it really is. It was almost like when you look at one of those optical illusions and you have to sort of stare until you lose focus and then you can see something underneath the pattern...it was sort of like that. Just a sureness and an a kind of 'how did I know see that before' feeling. I really only expressed it the way I did to avoid being fully dismissed with replies asking 'where did you get that information?' and 'can you provide a link' and 'no one has ever mentioned that before, where did that come from'. I needed to make clear that it wasn't that sort of thing. But not just made up either. If that makes any sense. Hopefully it does. All that being said, I still feel just as positive as I did before about this and one reason I've not been posting is because I've been completely consumed with scouring the web for any sort of confirmation. I may have found something in a very very deep search that has virtually no identifying tags to connect it to LS, but it is in fact about LS. I've not posted the link here because 1st, I need to review the rules to see if it's allowed and 2nd I'm still going through back threads to make absolutely sure it hasn't already been posted and discussed. So far I can't find any links or references to it. So, basically I'm just stopping by to catch up and thanking you both for making me feel better about sounding like a giant flake.
 
When I first heard of LS disappeared, my gut reaction was she was hit by drunk driverwho tgen scooped her up, took her away. Is this still plausible based on what we now know of camera placement? Could she have slipped thru grate/ hole in construction pavement? without cameras catching pic? Placement in POI or SO or a creep's vehicle while conscious seems plausible but why not on camera? How far could she have walked from 5N in any direction before a camera would have her image?
 
When I first heard of LS disappeared, my gut reaction was she was hit by drunk driverwho tgen scooped her up, took her away. Is this still plausible based on what we now know of camera placement? Could she have slipped thru grate/ hole in construction pavement? without cameras catching pic? Placement in POI or SO or a creep's vehicle while conscious seems plausible but why not on camera? How far could she have walked from 5N in any direction before a camera would have her image?

While I feel, based on what I've read about that night, that LS would have had a hard time leaving JR's on foot, I've considered what your suggestion (and many other possibilities). If she did somehow leave JRs, and got turned around and ended up in a construction zone, could she have avoided the cameras?

Last summer, I was walking across a college campus in broad daylight and came very close to walking into a manhole without a cover. What a freak thing ... and I doubt I would have seen it at night.

Another thought I've had is that maybe LS was in no shape to leave JR's but did so anyway to avoid something or someone, hence putting her in a precarious position (not to mention someone could have followed her). But that's still assuming she made it to 5N on her own volition.
 
JR could be lying about seeing her actually turn the corner. There are so many things these POIs, the roommates of LS, the rommates of JW, the roommates of JR, and the roommates of ZO, are lying about or omitting . And only God knows what other parties they were circling in those 3 blocks. From Kilroys to JRs is roughly 3 blocks, diagonally through alleys.

I know I'm not a certified local but trust me when I say I have known BTown for 42 years. Downtown late at night, the alleys are used almost as much as the sidewalks.
During the day, you can score heroin in less than a 1/2 hour in certain alleys downtown, not knowing anyone. This is not to say heroin is in any way
involved, just giving you an idea, alleys=bloomington=drugs.

With that in mind, then imagine that the drug trade crosses the kids avoiding PIs; hard core crosses fliberdigibbits.

Not to be overly dramatic, never underestimate this town, it's almost pre-Christian Anne Rice, or Stephen Kingish, after midnight, get your *advertiser censored* home.
These kids represent yes, money. Any time there's money to be made there's a side crowd of ne'er do wells who have all these elaborate schemes to take advantage of the unsuspecting person.

On the other hand, there is a very strong ethically committed, karma driven and peace orientated population here that will not let this go. Even if they aren't on websites and being vocal like some of us, they are just as committed to finding Lauren. If the POIs are guilty of hiding LS, eventually someone in one of the ripples of people they know will talk. Otherwise, I'm going to still investigate the other 25% as well.
 
Short of a consience based confession of somekind, at this point, this case is as cold as it is in Ukraine in January. LE's lack of pressuring POI's for further cooperation/information gives me zero confidence that they have anything very substantial or credible to work with in the case. I'll continue to follow the case, as I have from the unfortunate begginings, but I dont see any coming promise of a resolution. Here's to hoping I'm wrong in the new year!
 
What about ZO's gang?
Ever since the very beginning I found ZO's absolution by LE and reverence by the press was very strange. Who was with ZO. Was it AB? Who else? Don't ZO and AB live at 10th and College? AB isn't a student correct? What friends did they have over that night? Any out of town guests? Where do the rest of these ZO people live? What do they look like? Are they all students? Where do they live? What do they drive?

What if one of these people saw what was going with LS (that she was very hot but very out of it... couldn't even talk) but then later also happened to be watching when she fell exiting the alley? Perhaps they helped her up and put her into a vehicle while CR went stumbling to 5N... then CR comes back with MB only she is gone. They call JR at 3:30 because they are not just next door and can't just knock. JR looks out from his balcony and sees nothing. CR explains her condition to him. Meanwhile this onlooker who may have been part of ZO's crew drives off and realizes he has a dead girl, maybe helping her toward that end. The strange immunity of the 10th and College building and of ZO and crew has bugged me. While I think CR/MB and JR are liars, just what they are lying is the question. If they came forward and admitted that she disappeared back in the gravel lot, that would be very interesting.
Sure JR would protect CR/MB because he wouldnt' want them pointing fingers at him for drugs or digging up other dirt.
So who were those guys with ZO?
What was AB's alibi that night?
Also, does anyone know JR's real name? Few people are really named Jay. It's usually short for something else like Joseph.
 
What about ZO's gang?
Ever since the very beginning I found ZO's absolution by LE and reverence by the press was very strange. Who was with ZO. Was it AB? Who else? Don't ZO and AB live at 10th and College? AB isn't a student correct? What friends did they have over that night? Any out of town guests? Where do the rest of these ZO people live? What do they look like? Are they all students? Where do they live? What do they drive?

What if one of these people saw what was going with LS (that she was very hot but very out of it... couldn't even talk) but then later also happened to be watching when she fell exiting the alley? Perhaps they helped her up and put her into a vehicle while CR went stumbling to 5N... then CR comes back with MB only she is gone. They call JR at 3:30 because they are not just next door and can't just knock. JR looks out from his balcony and sees nothing. CR explains her condition to him. Meanwhile this onlooker who may have been part of ZO's crew drives off and realizes he has a dead girl, maybe helping her toward that end. The strange immunity of the 10th and College building and of ZO and crew has bugged me. While I think CR/MB and JR are liars, just what they are lying is the question. If they came forward and admitted that she disappeared back in the gravel lot, that would be very interesting.
Sure JR would protect CR/MB because he wouldnt' want them pointing fingers at him for drugs or digging up other dirt.
So who were those guys with ZO?
What was AB's alibi that night?
Also, does anyone know JR's real name? Few people are really named Jay. It's usually short for something else like Joseph.

Jason = "Jay"
I still have problem thinking all (3) 5N boys know what happened. First , I dont think you would find 3 people stupid enough to imvolve themselves in a death that they most likely had nothing to do with. I alao dont belibe that all three could hold up to the pressure ofrom public , nor LE questioning.

I was at a party twenty years ago, when a 19 yr old girl died. When she started to show signs of being in bad shape , an ambulance was called imeidiately. Not one thought of who bought the alcohol. Everyone was too busy trying to help her. Coincidently , she was an IU student at the time, but was home on summer break.
As it turned out she had an undiagnosed heart disease and died of a heart attack . I consider this type response normal , even for late teen kids, early 20s adults and even when drunk.

http://local.evpl.org/views/viewimage.asp?ID=4039
 
Short of a consience based confession of somekind, at this point, this case is as cold as it is in Ukraine in January. LE's lack of pressuring POI's for further cooperation/information gives me zero confidence that they have anything very substantial or credible to work with in the case. I'll continue to follow the case, as I have from the unfortunate begginings, but I dont see any coming promise of a resolution. Here's to hoping I'm wrong in the new year!


It may be ice cold in Vorgulintsy Ukraine today. However, a big warm up is on the way there. Perhaps this case won't be so cold either. I'm pondering your answer to my first post. Lauren taken to 5 N unconscious and removed from the building in the same condition. Your theory has merit.
 
I have been following Lauren's case since the beginning, way before I ever heard of Websleuths. I have spent hours and hours reading through the threads on this site, but haven't posted before because in comparison to those of you who have first-hand knowledge of Bloomington, it's cam locations, etc... I don't feel I have much to offer.

IMO, I don't see JR and MB involving themselves in a "cover up" by stating to have seen her alive and walking unless A. it was true OR B. they were directly involved in her demise.

The Twitter account @NewsOnLaurenS said that People magazine is featuring a story on Lauren's case; and I see that another news outlet asked permission to use Lauren's pic so they could run a story on her as well.
 
What about ZO's gang?
Ever since the very beginning I found ZO's absolution by LE and reverence by the press was very strange. Who was with ZO. Was it AB? Who else? Don't ZO and AB live at 10th and College? AB isn't a student correct? What friends did they have over that night? Any out of town guests? Where do the rest of these ZO people live? What do they look like? Are they all students? Where do they live? What do they drive?

What if one of these people saw what was going with LS (that she was very hot but very out of it... couldn't even talk) but then later also happened to be watching when she fell exiting the alley? Perhaps they helped her up and put her into a vehicle while CR went stumbling to 5N... then CR comes back with MB only she is gone. They call JR at 3:30 because they are not just next door and can't just knock. JR looks out from his balcony and sees nothing. CR explains her condition to him. Meanwhile this onlooker who may have been part of ZO's crew drives off and realizes he has a dead girl, maybe helping her toward that end. The strange immunity of the 10th and College building and of ZO and crew has bugged me. While I think CR/MB and JR are liars, just what they are lying is the question. If they came forward and admitted that she disappeared back in the gravel lot, that would be very interesting.
Sure JR would protect CR/MB because he wouldnt' want them pointing fingers at him for drugs or digging up other dirt.
So who were those guys with ZO?
What was AB's alibi that night?
Also, does anyone know JR's real name? Few people are really named Jay. It's usually short for something else like Joseph.

I agree, I'm nowhere near excluding ZO & Co. In fact, if you haven't checked it out, or haven't checked it out recently you should go look up ZO's court records. Lots of recent activity mostly traffic, but very interesting.
 
Can someone clarify who the two friends/roomates? were who found her wrislet in alley..first on ground..then was placed on railing..? Thank you.
 
I'm pretty sure that was A.B.; ZO's roommate.
I could be mistaken though.

Yeah those 2 guys didn't get much attention either, kinda strange. I forgot their intials, but it wasn't ZO's roomy, these 2 guys lived together and were Asian Indian or something like that. One said he found the wallet and keys and placed it on the ledge and the other said he saw it there when he came home a short while later. Rather curious that due to the timing they didn't see anything else.
 
From the link posted by Jacobite:


Rob Spierer said it’s still an open and active investigation, but the leads have slowed down. He said he does not believe Lauren was abducted and that something went terribly wrong the night she vanished.

“I think that Lauren was in a state where she was unable to take care of herself and I don’t know that she ever left the apartments that she went to after she left from Kilroy’s,” Rob Spierer said.

The Spierers have always said, there are people out there that know what happened to their daughter and won’t come forward or take police polygraphs.
Read more at http://fox59.com/2013/01/10/parents...ike-in-national-magazine/#CGBUM69gTAd6WTj8.99
 
Yeah, two other guys found the wristlet -- not ZO or AB. I can't remember the names, but there is a thread somewhere with all of the media links and articles. I'm sure it's there.
 
Thanks for the correction I must have gotten AA confused with AB. I would edit my post but for some reason I can't edit or delete.
 
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