1)cr
2)mb
3)jr
4)jw
5) ?????????????????????????????????//
One thing to remember or consider... A post or two considered it exculpatory that JW did not appear in any video (at least as far as we know). But whatever happened, and whoever was involved, did apparently happen without the event being caught on video.
I'm not sure how not being caught on video excludes anyone or any scenario?
Few questions to induce discussion:
1.Was there ever an arrest made in the sexual assult of the girl that pepper sprayed her attacker as she walked home alone from Kilroys several months ago?
Few questions to induce discussion:
1.Was there ever an arrest made in the sexual assult of the girl that pepper sprayed her attacker as she walked home alone from Kilroys several months ago?
2. Was C.R. dating anyone?
3. Was J.R. dating anyone?
4. Did C.R. D.R. and L.S. stop at C.R.'s after leaving party at 5N.....Might have been opportune time to cut some dope before delivery back to S.W.
Noted something similar to this before, that it seems these guys didn't have girlfriends and there were no known Females at JR's that night other than LS.
I do find this situation curious. Are any of them gay? Is there a reason why females were not present?
I can recall some incidents back in my college days when girls were present, but knew how to duck into the shadows when something went down. While males happily covered for them without any conversation.
Another dimension: For those that think strongest of theories that LS was sexually assaulted, I wonder if there has been a deep enough appeal for women to speak up who have stories to tell involving the POI's. As we know sexual assaults more often than not go unreported and especially if the perp is known to the victim.
Noted something similar to this before, that it seems these guys didn't have girlfriends and there were no known Females at JR's that night other than LS.
I do find this situation curious. Are any of them gay? Is there a reason why females were not present?
I can recall some incidents back in my college days when girls were present, but knew how to duck into the shadows when something went down. While males happily covered for them without any conversation.
Another dimension: For those that think strongest of theories that LS was sexually assaulted, I wonder if there has been a deep enough appeal for women to speak up who have stories to tell involving the POI's. As we know sexual assaults more often than not go unreported and especially if the perp is known to the victim.
Is there a reason why females were not present?
I've been thinking about this. I've never put too much weight into the video stuff for a few reasons:
- I think most cameras are designed to protect property not to record people walking by, and I have doubts about the reliability and quality of these kinds of cameras
- I suck at maps, so despite the awesome work done by some of the members here to show where security cameras are, I still don't totally understand what route someone would have had to take to avoid cameras, or what route someone would have been, for sure, caught on camera
-I still don't understand the white truck fiasco. It's not that I think it's a conspiracy, I just don't understand why LE was confused about it. If they initially thought the truck circled based on the time being off on one video, does this mean there wasn't a single other car caught by those two cameras during this time frame? Did we ever figure that out?
There's no real point to this post, I'm just thinking about some questions posed recently about how Lauren could have been taken from the area, by anyone, in a car or on foot, and how relevant cameras are.
Also, I have a question for the Bloomington people. What is the B-line? I know from googling it is a bike path, but:
- It goes through the city and then through woodsy/ rural areas, right?
- Does it pass through/ near the area Lauren was last seen?
- how isolated is it?
- was it under construction or completed when Lauren went missing?
- could a car drive on it?
- are there cameras?
If I was a stalker, I think I would have expected Lauren to stay overnight at the townhouses, and would not hang around as late as 4am thinking she would happen to emerge and leave on foot alone.
Also, I always have trouble with the chances of a victim running into a random perp, on a night filled with unusual activities, same as in the case of Kortne Stouffer. It just seems too coincidental, though of course at least possible, I guess.
Good point about appealing to others to come forward, if there are others. Now is the time.
Re: other females present. IDK if that's a red flag, really. It sounds like lone guys were also watching the game at JW's. From what I hear from my kids (one college, one late HS), the boundaries between hanging out/hooking up and dating are different now. LS and JW were dating, for example, but it would be OK for her to hang out with JR, I think. OTOH, it sounds like CR had more than that in mind. That makes me wonder if LS and JW were solid at that point, i.e., would CR be hitting on her if he knew she was in a committed relationship? OTOH, maybe he has a rep for that ... and that was another reason ZO punched him. JMO.
Good point about appealing to others to come forward, if there are others. Now is the time.
Re: other females present. IDK if that's a red flag, really. It sounds like lone guys were also watching the game at JW's. From what I hear from my kids (one college, one late HS), the boundaries between hanging out/hooking up and dating are different now. LS and JW were dating, for example, but it would be OK for her to hang out with JR, I think. OTOH, it sounds like CR had more than that in mind. That makes me wonder if LS and JW were solid at that point, i.e., would CR be hitting on her if he knew she was in a committed relationship? OTOH, maybe he has a rep for that ... and that was another reason ZO punched him. JMO.
I agree its difficult to discern exactly where the female witness' account ends and when the account of the last video footage from cam near Rossman's apt begins/ends...
For instance I was under the impression the female witness' acct begins around the time that they stop for the first seat on the steps out front apt building..Lauren two steps higher than Rossman...that the witness not only SEES, BUT ALSO HEARS the loud sound of Lauren slumping over on concrete steps and banging her head on the concrete...
I then understand that Rossman helped her up and they walked into the apt building and knocked on the door of 4 girls they were partying with earlier in the night...when they got no answer about a minute later they reappeared outside on the concrete steps to which they again sat down(I was understanding this to still be the acct of the female witness, right?)
at that point again Lauren is seen very messed up and literally seeming to slump, fall, etc,.. that Rossman gets her up from the steps to head onto his apt(Lauren leaves behind her keys AND ID on steps)... I was still under the impression as this acct coming from witness...
at that point Lauren and Rossman go into an alley heading to his apt..that Lauren literally went face first into the asphalt WITHOUT SO MUCH AS EVEN PUTTING HER ARMS OUT TO BRACE HERSELF AS SHE FELL FACE FIRST INTO ASPHALT!<-- This I was unclear on whether it came from witness acct or the video footage near the alleyway??
Rossman again picks her up and they keep heading to his apt.. shortly thereafter Lauren again collapses and falls to the ground...at that point Rossman slings her on his back with her arms slung over each shoulder and held by him while she dangled off his back, rather than grasping on with her legs as one would do "piggy back".. as Abbey says above PI is clear on the fact that Lauren was definitely still alive and somewhat conscious AT THAT POINT IN TIME...<--IMO I was under the impression this last SIGHTING WAS ALSO THE WITNESS, CORRECT?
So, when and what was seen on the video footage last seen of Lauren and Rossman from one of the cams near his apt?
TIA for any clarification anyone can provide![]()
*Sorry for quoting myself, but just wanted to bring forward the details so as to reference for further discussing this topic..*Thanks for that.... that's very close to the way I understood it. Especially your last paragraph. And when i said it that way there were numerous posts that said the PI's were referring to CR carrying LS BEFORE she fell face down in the alley. And so, since there was no camera after the alley exit... IF, YES IF CR picked LS up and carried her, then there must be an eyewitness. Who is that witness? That witness is not the bartender witness. So, you are the first person to state this the way i understood it from the video... that CR was seen carrying LS to 5N and that LS was definitely alive at that point. Would definitely like some confirmation on this interpretation from PI's since they are the ones that said it. Would hope that they read WS!
I have a hard time coming up with a viable chain of events that would include a stranger stalker from Kilroys. I too, cannot ignore all the anomalies that night. It would hard to believe that a stranger abuction would happen after all these anomolies....
Snipped by me. Good list. While I agree it's a long shot, I'd consider a crime of opportunity over a stranger stalker. Based on the "anomalies" you describe, I have to believe a POI/POIs is/are involved. But playing devil's advocate, if CR left LS alone outside 5N, or if she indeed somehow left 5N at a later point, she would have been prey in her condition. But it's hard to imagine her luck getting that much worse, you know?
*Sorry for quoting myself, but just wanted to bring forward the details so as to reference for further discussing this topic..*
Yes it would certainly be nice to have confirmation from the mouth of which the entire above described originated(ie the PI)..
I want to go with this a bit further in clarifying what exactly it is that we know about that last known video captured of Lauren and Rossman en route to his apt at 5N.. offhand I don't recall what they said that the time stamp was on that last known video of LS/CR(for some reason I seem to remember that we were given that info of time stamp on video)..is that right? If so, anyone recall offhand what that time was?
Also the actual video footage from cam near alleyway closest to 5N that shows Lauren and Rossman..was this literally video footage?..or was it merely a cam that every few seconds it captures a pic, therefor the footage would actually be still frames that were captured??.. IMO that's an important detail to clarify if anyone can recall..
IMO this clarification could potentially better clarify the PI's description that we above discussed...as in IMO it would determine how much of that above described account of Lauren's last documented moments are based on witness accts vs. based on the cam footage.
Regarding the discussion of this PI description actually based on 2 witnesses+alley cam footage, rather than just the 1 witness(bartender)+alley cam footage... IMO the idea of there being an actual additional witness besides just that of bartender IMO makes sense in that I personally don't believe that alley cam had any significant amount of footage or stills that would be of much importance in documenting Lauren's movements while walking to 5N<<--so, IMO if that's true then IMO its not likely that just ONE witness saw all those movements simply due to the logistics of the layout of the area that Lauren and Rossman were in/around while traveling to 5N..
Below is my breaking down those movements and what was most likeliest to have been seen by the bartender witness..
Starting with the bartender seeing :
-LS/CR first sitting down on concrete steps out front of apt building where the 4 girls lived that were from earlier party.
-her seeing Lauren's head smack on concrete step..
-her seeing LS/CR get up&walk into apt building for approx 1 minute..
-her seeing both again sit down on same concrete steps..
IMO bartender witness *could* also be the witness that :
-saw LS/CR get up from concrete steps the second time
-saw Lauren leave behind her keys&ID on the concrete steps
-saw LS/CR walk away from apt building and into alley .
But then was the bartender able to witness :
-Lauren stumbling while walking in alleyway and falling face first into asphalt with no reactive reflex such as even bracing herself for fall with her arms.
-Cory helping her up and they continue down alley toward 5N
-Lauren again stumbles and falls to the ground
-and lastly Cory picking her up and has each arm draped over each of his shoulders with her legs dangling down his back
The movements decribed PI ends after the last sight of CR's carrying LS on his back..with confirmation that she was alive and somewhat conscious at this last known sighting of the two..
So, in looking at the logistics of the layout of these areas above where Lauren's last being seen I see it likely that there would almost have to be another witness at some point after the bartender no longer had the two in her visual sight?..
Can anyone clarify this by better knowing that layout and whether the bartender witness would have even been able to see all of the above listed movements of LS/CR?..IS THAT POSSIBLE THAT SHE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE A VANTAGE POINT TO SEE THE TWO THROUGHOUT ALL OF THE ABOVE MOVEMENTS DETAILED BY THE PI??
also any clarification regarding that last alley cam footage of LS/CR en route to 5N..
TIA![]()
I have a hard time coming up with a viable chain of events that would include a stranger stalker from Kilroys. I too, cannot ignore all the anomalies that night. It would hard to believe that a stranger abuction would happen after all these anomolies.
This is a list of what I consider anomolies.
1. she is partying with a new group of friends.
2. she is partying with all boys
3. she is out with these boys, and not her boyfriend
4. she does not use her cell after 12:16
5. she is possibly experimenting with harder drugs than she might normally use.
6. she is not with her boyfriend, and ends up hanging out alone with a boy, that has told others that he would like to know LS sexually.
7. that boy is banned from LS apartment and gets in a fight with a guy thats also banned from the complex
8. her friends dont even check up on her after knowing the guys she is with has just neen in fight.
9. she looses track of her cell
10. she is walking aroynd barefooted
11. she looses her keys and wristlet
12. she falls and hits her head.
13. her boyfriend goes to be, d with no concern that his girlfriend wont answr texts and was suppose to be at his house.
14. the boy shes with hets amniesia
15. she asks MB to party even tho she is in such bad shape he had to help her to JRs
16. JR lets a girl walk back home alone amd barefooted at 415, even after seeing injuries she recieved while walking to his 5N
Im sure ive omitted a few major anomolies but how could this be a stranger abdution?