IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[AbbeyR]

You can bet had BPD fund that scent at JR's, CR's, or JW's-we would be hearing about a suspect and likely an arrest. <snip>

I don't know for sure, but I'm not sure that's true. A cadaver dog picking up a scent wouldn't be enough to convict, so why would there be an arrest? And how would we hear about it? We haven't really heard anything from BPD.

Google Kristin Smart. It's a case with some similarities - She was a student, went missing after a party, was last seen with some acquaintances. Cadaver dogs hit on the mattress of the guy who was last seen with her, but they never found her and he was never even arrested.

(And btw, Jacobite, weren't you the one claiming there was a cadaver dog hit in the alley at one point??)

 

[mfunky]

it absolutely amazes me that some people still think ls walked out of jr's and that jr is telling the truth. the preponderance of evidence points to him lying. There is not enough for a criminal conviction in public view, but if i were on a jury in a civil suit based on public facts i would vote in favor of the plaintiffs (spierers). Jr supposedly spent almost 1 hr making sure that ls was capable of walking home 2 blocks when he could have walked her home in 5 minutes. Six ways to sunday the stories and facts indicate that something went very wrong!!! She didn't "round the corner"... Unless her corpse was "rounding the corner" in a vehicle. And sure ask the question in a polygraph... "did you see her round the corner?
He could pass it even if she were dead and in a vehicle. She didn't walk around that corner barefoot and alive - no way.

thank you!

 

[mfunky]

I don't know for sure, but I'm not sure that's true. A cadaver dog picking up a scent wouldn't be enough to convict, so why would there be an arrest? And how would we hear about it? We haven't really heard anything from BPD.

Google Kristin Smart. It's a case with some similarities - She was a student, went missing after a party, was last seen with some acquaintances. Cadaver dogs hit on the mattress of the guy who was last seen with her, but they never found her and he was never even arrested.

(And btw, Jacobite, weren't you the one claiming there was a cadaver dog hit in the alley at one point??)

Agreed- the dogs picking up the scent definitely wouldn't be enough to convict. There very well could have been "findings" as a result of using cadaver dogs that we aren't aware of, that LE is holding back.

 

[akh]

But you'd think a cadaver dog making a hit would give police the leverage to push harder in a certain direction as well as begin to create some version of events that would make sense.

I know I am repeating myself but this case has something many other cases don't... At least if some form of the popular theory is to be believed. It has a ground zero. For the standard scenarios that involve the 5N trio anyway. LE has a specific place to look and specific people to investigate.

Many times LE has a missing person who went missing from some wider area. And without people volunteering they had seen them so close to the disappearance time either. Point A, where a person was last seen, and Point B, the place they were expected and never made it could be miles or hours apart. In this case it's a scant few blocks and apparently video cameras keep the time in a narrow window.

This case shouldn't be a needle in a haystack scenario.

The 5N guys make for a fairly solid theory for LE to chase down and a very limited area that should be the crime scene if that theory is correct. Yet either they've found nothing they feel comfortable acting upon, or they've found nothing that supports the theory.

Neither is good for the continued insistence that the 5N guys must be guilty.

So what is the problem for LE then? Did they botch the evidence collection somehow? Did CR, MB, JR (and mystery guest(s)) successfully pull off a crime without leaving incriminating evidence behind?

Or could it be there's a flaw in the theory? Of course since LE is not sharing anything who is to say what is possible but maybe the big thing to consider is maybe 5N wasn't the crime scene at all? Clearly it's possible she could leave (or be taken from) the area undetected. So in what ways is that possible? How can someone leave 5N undetected? What exactly is possible (or was possible at that time)?

 

[LongTallTexan]

But you'd think a cadaver dog making a hit would give police the leverage to push harder in a certain direction as well as begin to create some version of events that would make sense.

I know I am repeating myself but this case has something many other cases don't... At least if some form of the popular theory is to be believed. It has a ground zero. For the standard scenarios that involve the 5N trio anyway. LE has a specific place to look and specific people to investigate.

Many times LE has a missing person who went missing from some wider area. And without people volunteering they had seen them so close to the disappearance time either. Point A, where a person was last seen, and Point B, the place they were expected and never made it could be miles or hours apart. In this case it's a scant few blocks and apparently video cameras keep the time in a narrow window.

This case shouldn't be a needle in a haystack scenario.

The 5N guys make for a fairly solid theory for LE to chase down and a very limited area that should be the crime scene if that theory is correct. Yet either they've found nothing they feel comfortable acting upon, or they've found nothing that supports the theory.

Neither is good for the continued insistence that the 5N guys must be guilty.

So what is the problem for LE then? Did they botch the evidence collection somehow? Did CR, MB, JR (and mystery guest(s)) successfully pull off a crime without leaving incriminating evidence behind?

Or could it be there's a flaw in the theory? Of course since LE is not sharing anything who is to say what is possible but maybe the big thing to consider is maybe 5N wasn't the crime scene at all? Clearly it's possible she could leave (or be taken from) the area undetected. So in what ways is that possible? How can someone leave 5N undetected? What exactly is possible (or was possible at that time)?

Lots of good questions, and I'm confident LE has more, but clearly not enough. I'm not local, but passed through the area last week, causing unsettled-ness about the whole case again...there is something about this case that eats away at me. I cannot put my finger on it, but there's just too many things going on and too many people involved for this to be random...random is unlikely, but possible, but I feel like that all the events/activities and stories make a random abductor less likely....the events of the evening led to LSs disappearance...but why? That's what I keep processing, why....what was the motive/reason/cause-I'm convinced the answer is with the others around her that night--

 

[LongTallTexan]

Going back to the map and the timeline:
LS and CR are on camera at 2:42 leaving SW (College and 9th)...they head up the ally, this is only known because they are again on camera at the alley and 10th, now the time is 2:48....only 6 minutes later. 6 minutes to go 1 block.
There is the knock on the door at the 10th/College apt, LS falls back and hits head, LS falls face down, and then, they are at the last camera at 2:51, which is only half way to 11th, so this time the pace stays the same, only 3 minutes to go a half block, this includes all the extra activities taking place. My point is, even at 5N, she's only approx. 12 minutes from home in her state/pace, but only 6-8 minutes from 5N to the corner of 10th/College where the clock 'clearly??' stated 3:38 by a witness that may have seen LS. My point is, during this hour and a half from 3:00 to 4:15, LS may have been all over the alley/streets looking for her missing items, trying to find her way home, avoiding people...maybe she left 5N (CR & MB apt) on her own with intentions of going to JRs, but didn't make it to JR's until later...I don't think JR would have put her there if he wasn't involved after Kilroys, she was either there or he was involved in something else. But LS could've been at 10th/College at 3:38, with only a 6 min walk either way, she could've gone anywhere....wondering what else happened in the alley, was CR the one there or was he really in bed, and who else may have been (dark skinned and pointy sideburns???) in that alley with her at 3:38?

 

[AbbeyR]

According to the investigators, the person in the alley with LS was CR.

There is no dark skinned mystery man with pointy sideburns, it was a red herring, IMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

Yet either they've found nothing they feel comfortable acting upon, or they've found nothing that supports the theory.

Or, they don't have enough to act on until they find Lauren. I think that's the most likely scenario here.

Put another way, what kind of evidence do you think would be sufficient to make an arrest with 1) no body 2) no bloody crime scene?

 

[LongTallTexan]

According to the investigators, the person in the alley with LS was CR.

There is no dark skinned mystery man with pointy sideburns, it was a red herring, IMO.

Understood, I recall the video with the investigators assessment. But, wasn't the description of the man(CR), LS and the time on the clock from the witness? It would make more sense if the clock said 2:48...but that's not what she saw. Hope LE has resolution or clarity on this issue. IDK

 

[AbbeyR]

Understood, I recall the video with the investigators assessment. But, wasn't the description of the man(CR), LS and the time on the clock from the witness? It would make more sense if the clock said 2:48...but that's not what she saw. Hope LE has resolution or clarity on this issue. IDK

Yes, that was in Gatto's version of what the witness said. LE said the time was wrong though, and the PI's interviewed the same witness and concluded it was CR. I'm going with that, because Gatto made a lot of mistakes, and the PI's seem to be basing their conclusions on a combination of witness interviews and video evidence. Plus, the PI's version makes sense with the timeline, since LS then returns to 5 N with CR.

But, you're right, it's still not totally clear, so this isn't set in stone.

 

[akh]

Or, they don't have enough to act on until they find Lauren. I think that's the most likely scenario here.

Put another way, what kind of evidence do you think would be sufficient to make an arrest with 1) no body 2) no bloody crime scene?

When I say 'act' I don't necessarily mean arrest but I do mean bring pressure. Nothing gives me any indication that much pressure has been brought forth after the first initial days of the investigation. If circumstantial evidence was mounting to support their theory I'd think arrests on other charges (drugs?) might be one way to bring pressure.

 

[Seagull]

I've wondered the same thing -- If he just left her to crash and things went wrong later.

About the dogs: It's always bothered me that whatever kind of dogs they were, they didn't search the apartment until almost a month later. Would they still be effective if the place had been totally cleaned? I have no idea. Either way though, we don't actually know the results of any of the searches.

were the dogs really an entire month later?

 

[Seagull]

i was on a flight over the holidays and ended up seated next to a couple of girls from IU. of course, i couldn't help asking them what they'd heard about the case and what they said was this:

most people think that she OD'd and that they put her in a suitcase and paid their drug dealer to drive her as far north as possible (to dump the body). and no one ever found any evidence because the car was impounded.

keep in mind, they weren't students, yet, two years ago, so this is pure rumor. i think they are just sophomores this year, but it was interesting to see what they'd heard. and, of course, there are probably flaws to this notion (impounded cars can still be searched, right?), even if partially true.

to me, this is believable when you consider JR and DB's roots in michigan. perhaps it was DB's car that was used? also, perhaps the white truck didn't pick up lauren, but maybe it dropped off a driver. it seems like if they were regulars in the local drug trade, they might know a few friends of friends willing to do such a dirty job, so to speak.

someone recently posted about the possibility of LS "rounding the corner" as a corpse being taken away. i find this plausible, too...that people (JR, for example) give details that fit more than one scenario and it doesn't seem like a lie.

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt cause of death can even be determined if and when Lauren is found, at this point. So it will be very difficult to make any kind of a murder case or even manslaughter, IMO.

 

[Tonto]

Probably unrelated, but thought I'd post it.

THIS JUST IN: Human remains were discovered off County Line Road in Michigan City near the Town of Pines. According to the Michigan City News-Dispatch, police went to the scene near Chandler Road around 2:30 Friday afternoon. The remains were found on the northside near the railroad tracks. Police haven't released how the remains were found. Police are still investigating. We will bring you the latest on this developing story on WSBT News Saturday Morning and online at WSBT.com. Photo courtesy of Tim Moran / Michigan City News-Dispatch

https://www.facebook.com/WSBTNews?hc_location=streamHuman

12:27 a.m. EDT, May 4, 2013


Human remains were discovered off County Line Road near Michigan City in the town of Pines. According to the Michigan City News-Dispatch, police went to the scene near Chandler Street around 2:30 Friday afternoon. The remains were found on the north side near the railroad tracks. Police haven't released how the remains were found. They are still investigating. We will bring you the latest on this developing story on WSBT News Saturday Morning and here on WSBT.com.

http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-human-remains-found-near-michigan-city-20130503,0,4121881.story

 

[imkeylime]

Probably unrelated, but thought I'd post it.



https://www.facebook.com/WSBTNews?hc_location=streamHuman



http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-human-remains-found-near-michigan-city-20130503,0,4121881.story

I wish the article provided info about the age of the corpse. Another small, young blond woman disappeared from west of Grand Rapids, MI (west side of state), very recently:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/29/justice/michigan-woman-abducted/index.html

 

[AbbeyR]

were the dogs really an entire month later?

June 29th: http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-2301833.sto

 

[AbbeyR]

When I say 'act' I don't necessarily mean arrest but I do mean bring pressure. Nothing gives me any indication that much pressure has been brought forth after the first initial days of the investigation. If circumstantial evidence was mounting to support their theory I'd think arrests on other charges (drugs?) might be one way to bring pressure.

Ah, that makes sense. But, what kind of charges do you think they could pressure them with? Wouldn't drug charges only apply if they were actually found in possession of or dealing drugs at the time?

 

[imkeylime]

I wish the article provided info about the age of the corpse. Another small, young blond woman disappeared from west of Grand Rapids, MI (west side of state), very recently:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/29/justice/michigan-woman-abducted/index.html

Wow, it's depressing how many young women go missing. So sad and scary. Responding to my own post ... a young woman also disappeared in Michigan City last summer. Her car was found in a local tavern parking lot and her purse in a dumpster by another tavern. Here's the link:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Candi-Morris-Brown-Missing-from-Michigan-City-Indiana/516161951733054

 

[Kadence]

One month from today, it will be two years since Lauren disappeared. Today, she should have also graduated with her class, yet someone took that opportunity away from her as well as shattered her family's lives. Today, her fellow graduates put #63 (June 3rd) on the back of their hands and #FindLauren on the top of their graduation caps. They also observed a moment of silence in her honor. On probably one of the most exciting days of their lives, they stopped to honor a fellow classmate. Nicely done and so appreciated by me.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/iu-class-of-2013-graduates-without-lauren-spierer

Someone knows and someone is going to be found out and I believe it will be soon. It's time.

In the meantime, I'm ready for tomorrow - let's hope our positive energy contributes to bringing her home.