IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[Snapfade]

Its time to go door to door within in a three mile radius of 5n.... Check every house thats occupied year around, as well as any garages, businesses, pole barns and abandon homes.

Better yet, Everyone be Aware and report something that does not look or sound right. If I were a neighbor in Cleveland and I heard beating on windows or witnessed naked girls on leashes, I be damned if Im going to allow the police to not show up or leave without doing something about it ... And thats not hindsight !! Thats what you do if you see abuse of anyone..... You Stop the Suffering not turn tour head and ignore it.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I must truly wonder. Could detective Bill Warner be right? http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2013/05/10/missing-petite-blonde-females-may-be-victims-of-international-human-sex-trafficking-ring-says-fbi/

Long ago, I posted about the gang graffiti right in the area where Lauren went missing.
I was told by a friend who works for President Obama that it represented the Darko gang
and they deal in drugs and human trafficking. Yet, on this board, people laughed and stated fans of a guy delivering tacos were simply advertising.

Then, I reported to the Bloomington Police that 2 months after Lauren went missing, I was in Bloomington. A dark skinned man came rushing after a blonde haired woman near 10th and College Village Apartments. That's the last place Lauren was seen.

I really don't know what happened to Lauren. But, was she kidnapped? She could still be out there.

I know we have been trying to add things up. But there is possibly a fatal mistake in the main theories. There were no cameras on the path that Lauren Spierer was said to have taken down College Avenue. I can't prove we have a liar and I wonder what really happened?

I soooo agree with you here. In fact, I recently watched one of these crime shows, I can't remember the name of it or the victims name, but it was eerier how similar the case was to Lauren's. Basically this college couple back in their hometown on winter break went out to a party together. The girl ends up missing. There were reports of all of them being very drunk, doing drugs and also some reports of her and her boyfriend arguing. All the witnesses said she just left the party on foot. Her boyfriend said they argued and she walked home, but he claimed that he followed her in his car but she wouldn't get in but that he watched her from the car while he drove along to make sure she got home ok. He said that when she got to the neighbors house she left the sidewalk and started across their yard diagonally toward her place and and so at that point he went back to the party. No one saw him doing this, and there were reports from the party that he was quiet and withdrawn when he returned. Well, as you can see this looks really bad for him. He immediately "lawyered up" and refused to submit a DNA sample or talk further. Her parents were hurt and baffled by his behavior and he was the main POI from then on. I can only imagine what we would have thought here! In the end, her body was found where she had been dumped after being raped and beaten and then set on fire. In the end, what the story ended up being was she had lost her keys so she was on the dark side of the house attempting to enter through a bedroom window and at the same time a nearby SO neighbor was approaching her house looking for a window to peep in, the two met and that was that. Finally, the boyfriend was able to speak up indicated that his behavior was because of circumstances surrounding her disappearance with the fight and with him placing himself as the last person to see her with no witnesses and because before the party they had been intimate, he knew his DNA would be present = he knew it looked bad, so he CORRECTLY followed his attorneys advice to protect himself from being wrongly convicted of a rape and murder. All that just goes to show how really bad a situation can look, how a POI can present with behavior that makes them look even more guilty and yet the most obvious answer couldn't have been further from the truth. All the people that suspected the boyfriend, I would've been one of them, were completely justified in their suspicion and yet he had absolutely nothing at all to do with it, and unlike in Lauren's case at least he cared enough to make sure she got home ok and from where he sat it appeared she had. I think the theory you're talking about absolutely has legs to stand on although I don't think Lauren is alive, regardless of what the intent was when she was taken, if she was taken. I think we continually end up back on the same theory track because really, what else do we have to talk about...I mean I can believe that this other theory is just as, or more, likely but how much can I really say about it? There is just nowhere further to go with it discussion-wise, if that makes any sense.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

AMAZING news!! Definitely keeping the hope alive for Lauren! I was thinking about her on Sunday and sending good vibes to bring her home where she belongs!

Right on! That is wonderful. It's kind of cool to know that every Sunday somewhere out in the ether our twin energies are meeting up for a knuckle bump for Lauren.

 

[Ros]

The Cleveland case is a reason for hope. That more than one woman was abducted and kept for 10 years made me wonder if LS and Margaret Ann Hayes might have been taken by the same SO, decades apart. It would not be impossibly hard to keep someone captive in a rural area of Indiana.

 

[AbbeyR]

Has MB even spoken to the press and been directly quoted? I'd caution against putting too much weight on his 'constantly changing story' because I've lost track if we've even heard directly from him but we have heard differing stories from other people. And none of these people have we had the opportunity to question or hear questioned.

Yes, MB's lawyer has spoken to the press on his behalf and he has been directly quoted.

MB has absolutely given contradictory stories, and there would be no reason for that if Lauren had walked out the door perfectly fine and been kidnapped by a stranger.

I've thought about other scenarios too, but in the end there are some actions from the POI that are just not explainable. Plus they have lied and have refused to cooperate fully with the investigation.

I'm not losing sight of that.

 

[akh]

Yes, MB's lawyer has spoken to the press on his behalf and he has been directly quoted.

MB has absolutely given contradictory stories, and there would be no reason for that if Lauren had walked out the door perfectly fine and been kidnapped by a stranger.

I've thought about other scenarios too, but in the end there are some actions from the POI that are just not explainable. Plus they have lied and have refused to cooperate fully with the investigation.

I'm not losing sight of that.

Where are contradictory stories directly attributed to MB and not 2nd and 3rd hand accounts?

 

[AbbeyR]

Akh, you and I have been through this before, my friend.

A lawyer is hired to represent their client. So anything MB's lawyer states to the press on his behalf is equivalent to a statement from MB.
Even the statements from his lawyer are not consistent.

Then we can move on to second and third hand accounts. I wouldn't assume these are complete or 100% accurate, but there is no reason to dismiss them either.

The account of the private investigators, published in MSM, contains statements attributed to MB. These statements, which came out a year after his lawyer made the original statements, totally contradict them. While this is not the same as the statements provided directly by MB/ his lawyer, I do not believe that the PI's would fabricate a story about an interview. If they did, surely it would be challenged by the POI or their lawyers.

Finally, we have several accounts from named witnesses, reported in MSM, that offer different accounts from both of the above, that are also attributed to MB. These are the least reliable, but these are not anonymous sources. They are people who knew the POI and told a reporter about conversations that they themselves had with MB.

Looking at all of these together, it is telling that there has not been a single consistent story from MB from day one.
You can call this "noise". I think it's obviously much more than that.

ETA: There have been several posts with the quotes that show these inconsistencies here.

 

[AbbeyR]

Then, I reported to the Bloomington Police that 2 months after Lauren went missing, I was in Bloomington. A dark skinned man came rushing after a blonde haired woman near 10th and College Village Apartments. That's the last place Lauren was seen.

Wait, didn't you also later add that you saw two guys speed away in a blue car, and then you later sat down at a bar (Maybe even Kilroy's?) next to two guys that you recognized from Gatto's blog (implying it was ZO and friend) and that they were on the phone with a "Jay"?

(I'm too lazy to search for this post, but I'm pretty sure that was the gist of it. ) So, how does this part of your story fit in?

Don't take my skepticism personally, I think sometimes we have little pieces of information and it can be easy to read stories into them that are suggested by others. We all do this, and it's because we want to find Lauren. But some of theories seem pretty far fetched, IMO. For example, all I see with the Bill Warner theory is that he made a list of missing blonde girls. Are there suspects and evidence in the other cases? Is there any evidence pointing to the idea that it is a trucker or sex-traffic ring, or whatever, beyond just the idea that it could be?

I get that you, and others, have the same criticism about theories concerning the POI. But the difference is that they were actually named Persons of Interest by LE. They are the last to be seen with Lauren, and their stories don't add up.

 

[akh]

Akh, you and I have been through this before, my friend.

A lawyer is hired to represent their client. So anything MB's lawyer states to the press on his behalf is equivalent to a statement from MB.

This is wrong. It could not be anymore wrong. I don't know where you're getting this from and I've tried to correct you before when you were saying about CR and his attorney. It's clouding your judgment and infecting the forum narrative when you repeat it and base things on it.

A lawyer, speaking off the cuff to the press, is not the same as a prepared statement from MB. It's simply the attorney summarizing and likely spinning the case as he knows it at the time. At best.

Nothing said in that type of format has any real weight to it. Further, it's no more accurate than any other 2nd hand account and no court would see it any differently.

To try and parse it out as if you're dissecting the words directly from MB's mouth is folly.

 

[Ixchel13]

I soooo agree with you here. In fact, I recently watched one of these crime shows, I can't remember the name of it or the victims name, but it was eerier how similar the case was to Lauren's. Basically this college couple back in their hometown on winter break went out to a party together. The girl ends up missing. There were reports of all of them being very drunk, doing drugs and also some reports of her and her boyfriend arguing. All the witnesses said she just left the party on foot. Her boyfriend said they argued and she walked home, but he claimed that he followed her in his car but she wouldn't get in but that he watched her from the car while he drove along to make sure she got home ok. He said that when she got to the neighbors house she left the sidewalk and started across their yard diagonally toward her place and and so at that point he went back to the party. No one saw him doing this, and there were reports from the party that he was quiet and withdrawn when he returned. Well, as you can see this looks really bad for him. He immediately "lawyered up" and refused to submit a DNA sample or talk further. Her parents were hurt and baffled by his behavior and he was the main POI from then on. I can only imagine what we would have thought here! In the end, her body was found where she had been dumped after being raped and beaten and then set on fire. In the end, what the story ended up being was she had lost her keys so she was on the dark side of the house attempting to enter through a bedroom window and at the same time a nearby SO neighbor was approaching her house looking for a window to peep in, the two met and that was that. Finally, the boyfriend was able to speak up indicated that his behavior was because of circumstances surrounding her disappearance with the fight and with him placing himself as the last person to see her with no witnesses and because before the party they had been intimate, he knew his DNA would be present = he knew it looked bad, so he CORRECTLY followed his attorneys advice to protect himself from being wrongly convicted of a rape and murder. All that just goes to show how really bad a situation can look, how a POI can present with behavior that makes them look even more guilty and yet the most obvious answer couldn't have been further from the truth. All the people that suspected the boyfriend, I would've been one of them, were completely justified in their suspicion and yet he had absolutely nothing at all to do with it, and unlike in Lauren's case at least he cared enough to make sure she got home ok and from where he sat it appeared she had. I think the theory you're talking about absolutely has legs to stand on although I don't think Lauren is alive, regardless of what the intent was when she was taken, if she was taken. I think we continually end up back on the same theory track because really, what else do we have to talk about...I mean I can believe that this other theory is just as, or more, likely but how much can I really say about it? There is just nowhere further to go with it discussion-wise, if that makes any sense.

It could have been the POIs, or JW, or something like this^^^

We've been up and down and over and out about the possibilities of random abduction. IF she left JRs, then we have to discuss what kind of random we're talking about. A serial killer not based in Bloomington just happening by, then yes, very slim chance. let's add in some factors:
first, we have the time. 4:30 a.m. Chances of these types
of people, drunk, high, ramped up from being at bars around females, visiting
the 3 sex shops within two blocks, all magnified by the time she went missing.
Chances of this type of person either seeing Lauren that night in her treks or at parties before, or even as an outsider looking in--
as a peer, or a bouncer, waiter,bartender or food delivery guy, also go up during this hour. If Lauren was disoriented, she could have wrongly trusted such a borderline acquaintance to help her up.
The corner itself is a good corner if you were actually waiting for someone to come by...I have stated many times that each house, the three before you get to the corner and the three you pass
after turning the corner before getting to an alley, all have walkways that lead to the dark gravel parking lot behind 5N. If dragged through the walkway and into a car, or a van, she could be taken right out the west end of the lot, turning left would avoid all cameras. yes she could have turned the corner, but have been dragged and then taken in the northwest direction.
A SO or SOs would know that out of all the girls that head those two blocks north to party in those apts, some of them end up alone on their ways home.
Bad Corner, Bad Time, and Chances that drunk, high and sexually charged men are around at that time.

 

[AbbeyR]

infecting the forum narrative

lol. I didn't know we had a forum "narrative." Everyone here is allowed to come to their own assessment of this case. You have yours, I have mine.

If you'd like to correct my understanding of what lawyers do, why don't you just post a link. My understanding is that lawyers represent their clients. This is what they are paid for. Of course lawyers spin the story. And yes, there is a difference between a prepared statement and a lawyer's comments to the media, but in both cases, he is speaking on behalf of his client. In a high profile case, to make a statement to the media that your client ends up totally contradicting or that ends up being blatantly false is a very bad move. It usually happens when the client changes his story and/or unexpected evidence turns up.

This is why Voyles doesn't speak to the media (or LE) at all unless absolutely necessary. He explains this in one of the articles I posted a while ago.

 

[AbbeyR]

I'm also basing my opinion of MB (and CR and JR)'s weak stories on the fact that the private investigators who interviewed them directly have publicly stated that their accounts do not add up:

The Spierers’ private detectives, who have interviewed more than 100 people, have questioned nearly all of the “persons of interest” since they were hired by the family, with the exception of Rossman.

But they’re not satisfied with the ones who have talked. All of them have retained lawyers.

“A lot of those stories don’t line up, and there’s a lot of conflicting statements,” Dietl said. “Absolutely they were holding back information.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[akh]

lol. I didn't know we had a forum "narrative." Everyone here is allowed to come to their own assessment of this case. You have yours, I have mine.

If you'd like to correct my understanding of what lawyers do, why don't you just post a link. My understanding is that lawyers represent their clients. This is what they are paid for. Of course lawyers spin the story. And yes, there is a difference between a prepared statement and a lawyer's comments to the media, but in both cases, he is speaking on behalf of his client. In a high profile case, to make a statement to the media that your client ends up totally contradicting or that ends up being blatantly false is a very bad move. It usually happens when the client changes his story and/or unexpected evidence turns up.

This is why Voyles doesn't speak to the media (or LE) at all unless absolutely necessary. He explains this in one of the articles I posted a while ago.

You're acting like the difference in what the atty said and the difference in what the PI's said is night and day along the lines of one saying he was in Bloomington all day and the other saying he'd been in Indpls that day.

Instead it's just the attorney's recollection and spin on the story where the main details were: LS and CR arrive at the apartment, CR went to bed, she left the apartment to go to JR's. That part is consistent. Until MB actually goes on public record directly, or his atty reads a prepared statement from him, there is just not a lot of hay to be made here parsing other people's versions of what they heard.

It's interesting there are some differences in various reports but it's certainly not groundbreaking or even unusual considering it's random sources from random reports that overall have proven to be less than accurate anyway. And it's not like any of this is a mystery to LE or the PI's so I have to assume they've sought some clarity both from MB, his atty, these sources, and the PI's.

You're welcome to arrive at any theory you want but when you're wrong about a major piece of the puzzle you're relying upon and claiming an atty's off hand remarks in answer to a reporter's questions are the same as if his client was speaking for himself then I don't know what to tell you. And then you repeat it.

I'm not arguing with you because there's nothing to argue about. You are wrong on this point. It's just you state it with such certainty that it makes it seem to others you know what you're talking about when on this sole point you do not.

I will agree with you that if a lawyer misstates something egregiously or represents his client as saying something that is later deemed 180deg wrong and totally changes narrative then it is in fact usually a bad move. But that's not what we have here. It was an offhand summary at best with the main points lining up as they still do. It wasn't in a court of law. It wasn't a prepared statement.

If there are changing stories and not just changing recollections of stories then I feel confident that is exactly the kind of thing LE and the PI's could make hay with.

 

[akh]

I'm also basing my opinion of MB (and CR and JR)'s weak stories on the fact that the private investigators who interviewed them directly have publicly stated that their accounts do not add up:



http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

But aren't you being selective here and changing the context to bolster your theory? Wasn't the PI speaking of all the PsOI? Not just MB, JR, and CR.

And just a few lines later the PI has this to say:

'Man up'

Dietl had strong words, in particular, for Wolff.

“Jesse, he’s supposedly the boyfriend,” Dietl said. “I don’t get the idea of him bringing in a lawyer right away. This to me is a very creepy thing that this kid didn’t step up and say, ‘Hey, I cared about this girl, this is my girlfriend.’ Why wouldn’t you be cooperating 100 percent with police? Why would you hire a lawyer unless you were hiding something? Man up.”

I don't get the feeling that the PI's have (at least at that point) settled on CR, MB, and JR to the point that some here have. And they certainly have more info than any of us have.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Thinking of Charlene this Mother's Day, and thinking what a powerful example she is of a Mom's faithful, endless love. :rose:

ETA: I wrote this post yesterday but apparently never actually posted it. :facepalm:

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

It could have been the POIs, or JW, or something like this^^^

We've been up and down and over and out about the possibilities of random abduction. IF she left JRs, then we have to discuss what kind of random we're talking about. A serial killer not based in Bloomington just happening by, then yes, very slim chance. let's add in some factors:
first, we have the time. 4:30 a.m. Chances of these types
of people, drunk, high, ramped up from being at bars around females, visiting
the 3 sex shops within two blocks, all magnified by the time she went missing.
Chances of this type of person either seeing Lauren that night in her treks or at parties before, or even as an outsider looking in--
as a peer, or a bouncer, waiter,bartender or food delivery guy, also go up during this hour. If Lauren was disoriented, she could have wrongly trusted such a borderline acquaintance to help her up.
The corner itself is a good corner if you were actually waiting for someone to come by...I have stated many times that each house, the three before you get to the corner and the three you pass
after turning the corner before getting to an alley, all have walkways that lead to the dark gravel parking lot behind 5N. If dragged through the walkway and into a car, or a van, she could be taken right out the west end of the lot, turning left would avoid all cameras. yes she could have turned the corner, but have been dragged and then taken in the northwest direction.
A SO or SOs would know that out of all the girls that head those two blocks north to party in those apts, some of them end up alone on their ways home.
Bad Corner, Bad Time, and Chances that drunk, high and sexually charged men are around at that time.

oh, definitely, I agree. I don't personally, at this point, believe Lauren left 5N alive. I actually am not so sure she arrived there alive, or at least alive MUCH. I've sort of come to my own conclusion that the 3 5N boys- and any of their guests- stashed her behind the dumpster either when she was dying or after she died and then she was moved later after they had a pow wow to figure out what to do and made some calls. I don't think her body after death was ever inside JR's or CR's and I think there is a another car and another driver somewhere that no one (possibly including LE) has found out about, because this person was not at the party or around at all earlier in the evening and that is the person who moved her. I think there is possibly a money trail to this person, because I think it is someone removed from the group, someone that isn't as privileged, someone that would risk involvement for money, perhaps even continuing money.
This is just my own feeling, there is nothing in the form of evidence to lead me to this conclusion, it's just how I've worked it out in my own mind.

 

[mfunky]

Yes, MB's lawyer has spoken to the press on his behalf and he has been directly quoted.

MB has absolutely given contradictory stories, and there would be no reason for that if Lauren had walked out the door perfectly fine and been kidnapped by a stranger.

I've thought about other scenarios too, but in the end there are some actions from the POI that are just not explainable. Plus they have lied and have refused to cooperate fully with the investigation.

I'm not losing sight of that.

Couldn't agree more. It's as clear as day....

 

[Kadence]

Once again, AbbeyR and akh, I thank you for your civility as you debate, your debates really make me think and give me pause when I think I "know" what has happened to Lauren. I must say that I really, truly, don't know. I want to know though, for her family's sake.

I must admit that I'm not exactly OK with some of the known POIs not following the same protocols as others when it comes to the lie detector tests even though I know all the "stuff" about said tests, thanks to all of you. I'm all for having an attorney but if I'm innocent, I would want to shout it out and prove it to all who would listen, in any way I could, and would advise my counsel of same, but, that's just me. Perhaps I wouldn't be that way if I was in the same situation as the POIs? I'm not so sure, but I never want to find out.

Someone, somewhere, knows what went down, let's go, just open up and let it flow, do the right thing, it will do your soul good - please.

 

[Ixchel13]

oh, definitely, I agree. I don't personally, at this point, believe Lauren left 5N alive. I actually am not so sure she arrived there alive, or at least alive MUCH. I've sort of come to my own conclusion that the 3 5N boys- and any of their guests- stashed her behind the dumpster either when she was dying or after she died and then she was moved later after they had a pow wow to figure out what to do and made some calls. I don't think her body after death was ever inside JR's or CR's and I think there is a another car and another driver somewhere that no one (possibly including LE) has found out about, because this person was not at the party or around at all earlier in the evening and that is the person who moved her. I think there is possibly a money trail to this person, because I think it is someone removed from the group, someone that isn't as privileged, someone that would risk involvement for money, perhaps even continuing money.
This is just my own feeling, there is nothing in the form of evidence to lead me to this conclusion, it's just how I've worked it out in my own mind.

I have said before I work on campus around many students. Whenever I get the right opportunity, I bring up Lauren's disappearance. At least 10 students, none of which know the other, have mentioned a coke dealerwas involved, some say in conjunction with the POIs, others just a coke dealer. To me this indicates a particular rumor going around many different circles. People on this forum and others have listed DR, JR, ZO, JW and CR as possible dealers. Was DB their source or a Bloomington local? Or both?
Could someone have done a frame job on these POIs. knowing that they were the last ones to see Lauren? This someone could have been at JRs apt.,
for that last hour everyone says she couldn't have been up for, and heard her insistance that she was going to walk home regardless of anyone's advice? That person could have left, and then waited in the walkway for her
to come by. That person could have been an overnight guest of JRs, and pretended to go to bed, but instead went outside to wait for Lauren. This person kills Lauren accidentally or otherwise while accosting her in the walk-way, then calls the dealer to say she's OD'd and it's his fault. Dealer comes to help him, and knows where to go, being a local.
JR might have guessed this. He may have already cooperated with LE and we haven't a clue about that. The second call, the one LE won't tell us
who it was to, this person could have either framed the POIs or given LE knowledge they are not about to share with us.
The only knowledge we really have from LE is the identity of the POIs
who were the last to see her. They have not named any other POIs, but
I bet they have some. The named POIs' attorneys are backing off the case,
not to slam attorneys but here's wealthy clients, and they are saying there's nothing much more they can say or do, must be true if they aren't milking the parents for money. The POIs remained in Bloomington to finish and graduate,
IMO, most attorneys, if they felt their client might be guilty, would advise them to switch schools. Parents as well. I don't think moving away would indicate guilt, as much negative attention these guys were given, I would have advised my child to switch.
IMO, someone in the background of this is lying about alot of things. One
of the things IMO is Lauren's condition. This is crucial. We have a supposed witness at Kilroy's, an employee or customer who said she was foaming at the mouth. We have another witness that says she banged her head--someone at 10th and College--a place you have to be buzzed into to knock on a door, yet somehow we are told Lauren was knocking on someone's door.
So was she so high and drunk she couldn't walk, or at least sober enough to get buzzed into the bldg and knock on a door? Who let them into the building to knock on a door? We may have her on tape free falling out of the alley leading to the 5N parking lot or we may not. JR says her face was beginning to bruise so that does makes sense.
IMO, someone in the background is exaggerating Lauren's insobriety. IMO,
she was drunk but sobering up, and may have snorted some klonopin with Dr as has been reported--perhaps inebriated enough to be taken advantage of, but not enough to OD and die.
It is convenient to wrap this package up with the POIs as guilty, but this case has complications we just don't have the info to process. IMO. employees of Kilroy's maligned Lauren and then closed down and scattered
for two months; the witness at 10th and College (said to be a bartender) maligned CR and again exaggerated Lauren's condition yet made no move to help her or report the incident until many days later.
Was the last person JR called living or visiting at 10th and College? I'm inclined to disbelieve LE's account of that last call. If JR DID leave a message, maybe this person is the real suspect, knowing that Lauren was leaving JRs. Maybe LE wants this person to think JR said he didn't leave a message.
So, how high and drunk was Lauren, really? This is the determining factor above all else, isn't it--whether she was sober enough to leave JRs? Yes we know a few people (drunk and high themselves?) have said she was very much so, but she was trying very hard to get her phone and get on home--afterall, she was out partying w/o her man and most likely wanted to get back safely to her apt., with phone, so that he wouldn't be mad at her.
Being an unchivalrous jerk should be chargeable, and most likely contributed to her demise, but does not mean that person would destroy his friends body without giving her parents closure.
IMO, this crime was committed by a sociopath(s) who is deeply addicted to drugs and alcohol, someone who is always up late, someone familiar with the territories of both the crime scene and the terrain around Bloomington, and someone with the ability to manipulate people into lying for them even if they don't know they're lying, i.e. repeating rumors about how high Lauren was
as if they were facts.
also, IMO, this post won't be very popular, sorry.

 

[imkeylime]

I have said before I work on campus around many students. Whenever I get the right opportunity, I bring up Lauren's disappearance. At least 10 students, none of which know the other, have mentioned a coke dealerwas involved, some say in conjunction with the POIs, others just a coke dealer. To me this indicates a particular rumor going around many different circles. People on this forum and others have listed DR, JR, ZO, JW and CR as possible dealers. Was DB their source or a Bloomington local? Or both?
Could someone have done a frame job on these POIs. knowing that they were the last ones to see Lauren? This someone could have been at JRs apt.,
for that last hour everyone says she couldn't have been up for, and heard her insistance that she was going to walk home regardless of anyone's advice? That person could have left, and then waited in the walkway for her
to come by. That person could have been an overnight guest of JRs, and pretended to go to bed, but instead went outside to wait for Lauren. This person kills Lauren accidentally or otherwise while accosting her in the walk-way, then calls the dealer to say she's OD'd and it's his fault. Dealer comes to help him, and knows where to go, being a local....
also, IMO, this post won't be very popular, sorry.

Snipped by me. It's a useful post, IMO. Anything that generates discussion is. Here are my thoughts. To begin, here's an archived WS post from my friend Jupiter812, 10-11-2011, 08:14 PM:

"Today was a bit weird because shortly after posting the pic, I ran into an old acquaintance I hadn't seen for a long time. We were talking about Bloomington and the subject of Lauren's disappearance came up. His nephew works at Kilroy's and said on that night Lauren kept going around the bar asking people if they had any coke. I was flummoxed because this is a version I have not heard before. He said a Hispanic guy approached her several times asking her if she wanted to do some coke. (Maybe she didn't because she was with CR? Because they wanted to buy and do on their on? Who knows?) My acquaintance thinks this dude waited until he saw her alone and then invited her to do coke with him.

This scenario makes sense for several reasons, and I'm interested in just sitting with it for a while. It actually feels good not to be fixated on the usual suspects, as they say."

I've always wondered about the above scenario, which generated in Bloomington and includes a coke reference. For one thing, the Hispanic guy could fit the description of the man the bartender said had LS on his back. I realize the man could also be CR (as implied in some news articles), but CR doesn't fit the bartender's description.

I could also see a local guy being called/paid to come in and clean up the mess, i.e., one or more POIs paying a local rather than get his hands dirty (and risk being caught). That's a terrible thing to think, but having a lot to lose can make people desperate, i.e., think Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. And these are entitled guys with resources. Although his MO is very different, someone like SHD (the guy recently arrested for sexual assault in Bloomington) could fit the "local" bill (but I also think LE would have checked him out by now).

IDK if you can do anything with the above. FWIW, I'm willing to consider all alternatives. It's just that enough sits wrong with the POIs, IMO, that they either know something or did something.