IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[AbbeyR]

Whatever the defense might say or not say, there would still be no legal duty on their part to physically take possession of LS herself, which idk, I seriously question how many people would actually do that in their shoes anyway if they did not know LS and/or did not know what her relationship with CR was like. CR told later witnesses that he was taking care of the situation so it wouldn't be surprising if he said something similar to ZO. Again, it would be nice to know if ZO or his friends actually knew LS and, if so, whether they knew she actually lived at Smallwood. If they didn't, I'm not sure how they would know that CR was NOT taking her home like they asked.

Yes, according to the reports, CR told both people who tried to intervene that he was in control of the situation.

At Smallwood:

The two walked to Smallwood. They were in her fifth-floor hallway when they were confronted by four male students who got off the elevator and saw that Spierer appeared unsteady.“Are you OK?” one of the guys recalled asking her.

“She’s OK, I got it,” Rossman is said to have replied.

“Hey dude, you’d better take her to her room,” the guy shot back.

Rossman started cursing, and Zach Oakes, the burliest of the bunch, punched him in the chin, knocking him to the tile floor.

Then to the witness on the street:

On the next block, she sat down on a staircase and fell backward, slamming her head on the concrete step. The thud was loud enough for a young woman to hear it and ask whether she was all right.

According to the woman, Rossman replied, “She’s OK, I’ll take care of it.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

I think this part may factor into the 'duty of care' legal arguments. From what I understand, a duty of care can be created if one 1) puts someone else in a risky or harmful situation (for ex, gets them severely intoxicated) and/or 2) takes responsibility for their care

So for example, if you see an injured person in the street, you normally have no responsibility to stop and help them, even if you could save their life. But if you begin to help them, or for example, take them home with you, you can't just walk away or leave them out of reach of getting help.

 

[holly18]

There probably is more to this story and/or it is not being told correctly, imo, but I don't think that means that ZO had zero concern about LS.

I think his level of concern, if there was any in reality, is definitely questionable though. He might have even benefitted from LE having to break down the doors at Smallwood to get the tapes if that meant that LE didn't know about him punching CR - he may tried to justify the violence as being only concern for LS if he thought he wouldn't get charged with assault. IMO, I wouldn't be shocked if his level of concern was limited to thinking she had a few too many and needed to sleep it off. If CR was acting inappropriately like they supposedly said that may have added to it, but unless they knew LS, I'm not sure why they wouldn't think CR and LS were seeing each other. It would be nice to know if ZO and CR had history prior to this encounter because resorting to physically punching someone is pretty extreme. Then again, these guys were both probably drinking/possibly doing harder stuff, so who knows.

Regardless, the lawsuit has at least one witness stating she was relying on CR to walk entering Kilroy's. She then consumed "several" more drinks there, so the descriptions of her by ZO and his friends seems plausible. Whatever the defense might say or not say, there would still be no legal duty on their part to physically take possession of LS herself, which idk, I seriously question how many people would actually do that in their shoes anyway if they did not know LS and/or did not know what her relationship with CR was like. CR told later witnesses that he was taking care of the situation so it wouldn't be surprising if he said something similar to ZO. Again, it would be nice to know if ZO or his friends actually knew LS and, if so, whether they knew she actually lived at Smallwood. If they didn't, I'm not sure how they would know that CR was NOT taking her home like they asked.

I totally agree with this. Also, we don't know how out of it Lauren looked to ZO... He probably thought she had had too much to drink/taken something and would be fine the next morning, no big deal but she should go to bed. This was probably nowhere near the first time he'd seen someone in that shape, his thought process might have just been that CR shouldn't be dragging her around (whatever his intentions) and should get her to bed.

IMO, if he didn't know Lauren far better than CR did, it would have been weird of him to try to take 'possession' of Lauren to get her home. For all he knew CR was her boyfriend or close friend who was just taking his time getting Lauren into bed. Unless CR was doing something wildly inappropriate or Lauren clearly wanted to get away from him, it would have been strange for ZO to take control of the situation.

My guess is ZO saw that lauren was in bad shape, said something like "dude you need to get her home and let her sleep it off" and CR might have mouthed off (ie "f off, I've got it" etc) and it escalated, the fight could have been about something CR said to ZO that had nothing to do with Lauren.

I do wish that we knew how well (if at all) ZO knew JW/CR/Lauren, that would clear a lot up

 

[Ixchel13]

ZO committed assault. In civilized society, one is supposed to be able to get one's thoughts and intentions across without violence.

To rationalize away this assault, trying to wraps our ideas around a ramped up 20 year old and why he did what he did and what he was thinking is like herding cats.

He didn't help Lauren, yet beat someone up who was probably trying to take her to her apt.

That he punched CR hard enough to knock him down, basically he sucker-punched him according to the PIs, is not disputed.

He got away with the assault by telling LE that he was only trying to intercede.
He was not a stranger to this group.

Again, no one helped Lauren, and therefore I won't rationalize away anyone's actions that evening from her bf to her roommates, the friends she was partying with, the altercation people from ZO to ZC, if none of them could be bothered to help her, I'm not about to try to find good reasons why not.

 

[holly18]

ZO committed assault. In civilized society, one is supposed to be able to get one's thoughts and intentions across without violence.

To rationalize away this assault, trying to wraps our ideas around a ramped up 20 year old and why he did what he did and what he was thinking is like herding cats.

He didn't help Lauren, yet beat someone up who was probably trying to take her to her apt.

That he punched CR hard enough to knock him down, basically he sucker-punched him according to the PIs, is not disputed.

He got away with the assault by telling LE that he was only trying to intercede.
He was not a stranger to this group.

Again, no one helped Lauren, and therefore I won't rationalize away anyone's actions that evening from her bf to her roommates, the friends she was partying with, the altercation people from ZO to ZC, if none of them could be bothered to help her, I'm not about to try to find good reasons why not.

All of these people should have done more for Lauren, but they didn't. Debating who could have or should have done what isn't going to find lauren. However, I'm focusing on who killed/kidnapped/disappeared Lauren rather than who punched CR. In a civilized society, nobody should murder a defenseless 20 year old or hide her body after the fact. I don't understand the obsession with ZO being punished (yes, I agree he should have faced consequences for hitting someone else). Either the police chose not to charge him for some random reason, or he cooperated and therefore they did not charge him. Neither of these options provides much information about LAUREN, which is what this thread is about. Frankly, unless it helps us find Lauren I don't care why ZO punched CR. Laying your hands on someone else is wrong, and I in no way condone it, but it seems like a dead end of inquiry, IMO. Cory is fine, his family and friends (presumably) know where he is and are able to speak with him. Lauren is not fine, and her family and friends are approaching three years without her.

Also, BBM: Was probably taking her to her apartment? Can you provide a link for this? They also could have been there to get alcohol or drugs, or to go to another party, or to meet up with someone else. I don't know why they were there or why Cory didn't actually take Lauren to her apartment... Do you?

How do you know he wasn't a stranger to this group? Can you provide a link?

 

[Ixchel13]

All of these people should have done more for Lauren, but they didn't. Debating who could have or should have done what isn't going to find lauren. However, I'm focusing on who killed/kidnapped/disappeared Lauren rather than who punched CR. In a civilized society, nobody should murder a defenseless 20 year old or hide her body after the fact. I don't understand the obsession with ZO being punished (yes, I agree he should have faced consequences for hitting someone else). Either the police chose not to charge him for some random reason, or he cooperated and therefore they did not charge him. Neither of these options provides much information about LAUREN, which is what this thread is about. Frankly, unless it helps us find Lauren I don't care why ZO punched CR. Laying your hands on someone else is wrong, and I in no way condone it, but it seems like a dead end of inquiry, IMO. Cory is fine, his family and friends (presumably) know where he is and are able to speak with him. Lauren is not fine, and her family and friends are approaching three years without her.

Also, BBM: Was probably taking her to her apartment? Can you provide a link for this? They also could have been there to get alcohol or drugs, or to go to another party, or to meet up with someone else. I don't know why they were there or why Cory didn't actually take Lauren to her apartment... Do you?

How do you know he wasn't a stranger to this group? Can you provide a link?

Holly, it's not an obsession about ZO being punished, and you're right, it doesn't help solve the case....unless the altercation continued down the street later, JMO. Also, I think it is really a stretch to postulate that Lauren was "stopping off" at her own apt. to get alcohol or drugs. It just seems more logical to me that she was at home and was going to stay there. Not to be snarky, but I find that way more believable. And suggesting that she was after yet more alcohol and drugs with no proof is indirectly blaming the victim.

These people all knew each other. One of their prime dissimulations is to not make it known who was closest to whom. For instance, at a much later date we find that MB knew JR much better than CR did. We had to sleuth to find out Blair Wallach's parents are in business with MB's. So MB wasn't the shy wallflower working on a paper that he at first portrays himself, but someone who is friends with the roommates, CR, and JR. Making it likely that he also knew the out of town guest, and also making it likely that he was a source for HT's info.

 

[kpeacock]

Holly, it's not an obsession about ZO being punished, and you're right, it doesn't help solve the case....unless the altercation continued down the street later, JMO. Also, I think it is really a stretch to postulate that Lauren was "stopping off" at her own apt. to get alcohol or drugs. It just seems more logical to me that she was at home and was going to stay there. Not to be snarky, but I find that way more believable. And suggesting that she was after yet more alcohol and drugs with no proof is indirectly blaming the victim.

Just want to address blaming the victim - I am one who said that possibly they stopped by the apartment, to pick up drugs, or stay and changed their minds. I do think this is a real possibility, having lived a similar college party lifestyle not too many years ago. There were reports that LE found a bag of white powde when searching her apartment, yes?

Still, this in no way should be construed as blaming the victim. Not for her disappearance, not for anything terrible that might have happened (OD or otherwise.) It is simply a theory based on the psychology of what happens in the minds of inebriated people, especially college students. Call it a theoretical insight from someone who has similar experience, but not blaming the victim, not for one second.

 

[AbbeyR]

I agree, links would be helpful, since there is a lot of incorrect info being posted, IMO.

It's definitely possible that HT talked to the other POI at 5 N, but regarding JR's story that she told the media, she made it clear that JR was her source of that info.

 

[kpeacock]

These people all knew each other. One of their prime dissimulations is to not make it known who was closest to whom. For instance, at a much later date we find that MB knew JR much better than CR did. We had to sleuth to find out Blair Wallach's parents are in business with MB's. So MB wasn't the shy wallflower working on a paper that he at first portrays himself, but someone who is friends with the roommates, CR, and JR. Making it likely that he also knew the out of town guest, and also making it likely that he was a source for HT's info.

I'm very interested in this - family and friend connections of the POIs, especially relating to Indiana. Could be useful in investigating a cover up, IMO. Perhaps give clues to who had resources/access to transporting/hiding a body, for example. Did anyone have access to the Marina on Lake Monroe, or a boat somewhere? Access to land/property? Etc.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk

 

[kpeacock]

These people all knew each other. One of their prime dissimulations is to not make it known who was closest to whom. For instance, at a much later date we find that MB knew JR much better than CR did. We had to sleuth to find out Blair Wallach's parents are in business with MB's. So MB wasn't the shy wallflower working on a paper that he at first portrays himself, but someone who is friends with the roommates, CR, and JR. Making it likely that he also knew the out of town guest, and also making it likely that he was a source for HT's info.

I'm very interested in this - family and friend connections of the POIs, especially relating to Indiana/Michigan. Could be useful in investigating a cover up, IMO. Perhaps give clues to who had resources/access to transporting/hiding a body, for example. Did anyone have access to the Marina on Lake Monroe, or a boat somewhere? Access to land/property? Etc.

 

[holly18]

Holly, it's not an obsession about ZO being punished, and you're right, it doesn't help solve the case....unless the altercation continued down the street later, JMO. Also, I think it is really a stretch to postulate that Lauren was "stopping off" at her own apt. to get alcohol or drugs. It just seems more logical to me that she was at home and was going to stay there. Not to be snarky, but I find that way more believable. And suggesting that she was after yet more alcohol and drugs with no proof is indirectly blaming the victim.

These people all knew each other. One of their prime dissimulations is to not make it known who was closest to whom. For instance, at a much later date we find that MB knew JR much better than CR did. We had to sleuth to find out Blair Wallach's parents are in business with MB's. So MB wasn't the shy wallflower working on a paper that he at first portrays himself, but someone who is friends with the roommates, CR, and JR. Making it likely that he also knew the out of town guest, and also making it likely that he was a source for HT's info.

I am in no way blaming the victim, and I find it rather cruel to suggest that I am. I want Lauren to be found, pretending that college kids don't drink or do drugs is unrealistic and unhelpful. I don't know what Lauren had taken/been given that night, and I don't know if she realized that she was in bad shape. I can only speak from personal experience, but I know there have been times when I've already had too much to drink and instead decide to go with friends to grab some more wine from someone's dorm room. Obviously I realize that was a bad decision the next morning, but in the moment I think I'm fine and more wine is a fabulous idea.

I've been on the opposite of that, trying to get a friend who was black out drunk home because she thought she was fine and wanted to go to a bar. Lauren might have thought she was fine at that point, or CR might have been the one who wanted to retrieve something from her apartment to continue the party. That isn't blaming the victim, its speculating about what might have happened.

If CR's goal was to take her home why didn't he do that?? Either before or after the punch. Did he say to ZO "I am taking her home, back off"? Did he call HT or someone else who lived near Lauren to come grab her and take her home after he got punched? No.

My question wasn't about who MB knows, that isn't new information. It also isn't new information that DB's family is fairly well established and theres a good chance he would have known of a hiding place on his way home. Or that DB and JR had been friends for a long time. My question was specifically how you know that ZO knows all these people, and I'd still like a link for that.

IU is a huge school. My guess is that ZO probably knew one or two of the people who have been mentioned on this board, but it hasn't been mentioned who specifically he knew... was he passing acquaintances with DR? Did he have a class with CR? Was he close enough with any of these people to know who Lauren was, know who she had been dating, know that she was still dating JW, know that JW was not waiting downstairs/at another party/in her room for her? Did he have a reason to be personally upset that she was with CR? I've seen nothing except your comments to suggest this, if you have information regarding it I'd be interested to see it.

And as far as the altercation continuing down the street later, there are cameras in smallwood. Do you think the police wouldn't have noticed if ZO and/or his friends followed them out? Were with them in the alley? I'm pretty sure the police would have been intrigued if Lauren was being followed by a mob.

 

[holly18]

I agree, links would be helpful, since there is a lot of incorrect info being posted, IMO.

It's definitely possible that HT talked to the other POI at 5 N, but regarding JR's story that she told the media, she made it clear that JR was her source of that info.

That was my impression as well. Just because BW and MB's parents were in business together doesn't mean their kids were very close. I went to a tiny school and there were a few people there who I had either known since I was little, or who were friends of my family. We always said hi and occasionally would get coffee, but I wasn't "friends" with any of them, family ties aren't a guarantee of friendship

 

[doubtingthomas]

There have been a lot of questions as to why CR/LS would have gone back to LS apt. In earlier reports I was under the impression that LS was at her apt before she left with DR to go to JR's. Then CR came over to JR's after they got there. But according to Lohud:

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ght-before-her-disappearance?odyssey=nav|head

Hadar Tamir, Lauren Spierer's college roommate, shared new details Sunday about the morning her roommate went missing.

She said she was with her roommate for much of the previous day and remained with her until shortly after midnight the morning of June 3.

They were "just hanging out" in a friend's apartment down the hall at Smallwood Plaza around 12:30 a.m., when Spierer left.

I am assuming this was probably DR's. Now if when CR left to go to JR's, MB might have still been in the apt. So when they leave Kilroys' he might not wanted to back to his apt thinking MB might still be there. If LS had told him earlier that she and her roommates had been at DR's, he might have thought that no one was at LS's apt. Therefore whatever he had in mind he could take her to where no one was around. Then the altercation happened and he just wanted to get away. I think CR was in control the whole time and had other intentions on his mind, but not getting more drugs or alcohol.

Another question I had posted earlier was why DR left so soon after taking LS to JR's. But if LS and her roommates were at his apt, I could see why he might want to get back to his apt. I have not found anywhere that has stated they were at DR's.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Ixchel13]

I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings, not my intention. But may I ask why
you think, at nearly 3 a.m., after she had been up and down the street to parties, and at Kilroy's, that now she was just stopping by her own apt at that hour for more drugs to go back out? At the same time, she is also being said to be nearly comatose. So, it does put Lauren in a bad light to imply she was so into drugs that although she was incapacitated , she must have been going for more, and then hitting the streets again. There is no evidence that she did more than snort a klonopin.
And about HT saying this and that, IMO, she isn't telling the truth, or at least not the whole truth. I am saying that I don't believe her. It's the same thing as having an opinion that others in this mess are also lying. Frankly, I think they are all lying about something.
I guess that if someone could prove that she was practically chased out or felt insecure staying at her own apt., and left to her demise, it would leave a tiny bit of room for a civil suit. That is if someone could prove that, so I can see how that would upset people who might have been involved from the sidelines, thinking that they could get in trouble from that angle.

 

[holly18]

I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings, not my intention. But may I ask why
you think, at nearly 3 a.m., after she had been up and down the street to parties, and at Kilroy's, that now she was just stopping by her own apt at that hour for more drugs to go back out? At the same time, she is also being said to be nearly comatose. So, it does put Lauren in a bad light to imply she was so into drugs that although she was incapacitated , she must have been going for more, and then hitting the streets again. There is no evidence that she did more than snort a klonopin.
And about HT saying this and that, IMO, she isn't telling the truth, or at least not the whole truth. I am saying that I don't believe her. It's the same thing as having an opinion that others in this mess are also lying. Frankly, I think they are all lying about something.
I guess that if someone could prove that she was practically chased out or felt insecure staying at her own apt., and left to her demise, it would leave a tiny bit of room for a civil suit. That is if someone could prove that, so I can see how that would upset people who might have been involved from the sidelines, thinking that they could get in trouble from that angle.

BBM

Let me be really clear here. I've said in a post earlier on this page why I think its possible that she didn't realize how out of it she was. I was speaking from personal experience and what I've seen happen with friends. I did not mean it as an insult in any way shape or form. I also didn't say that I necessarily think that going to the apartment was Lauren's idea. I have not criticized Lauren, and I don't find you saying I "put her in a bad light" any less insulting than your last post saying that I am blaming her for what happened. The only thing Lauren deserved that night was friends who cared about her, people looking out for her, and ending the night safely asleep in her own bed. As far as I can tell, she got none of that.

You're right, there is no evidence she did more than snort klonopin, and that comes from JR via DR, so I'm not even sure I believe that. I don't know why they went back to the apartment, I'm simply saying that if they BOTH wanted to get lauren home to her apartment, I don't understand why that didn't happen. To me it seems like even post altercation there would have been multiple easy ways to get lauren safely to her apartment- just not with CR staying with her. I think Doubtingthomas gave a very plausible scenario for why they might have ended up leaving again.

Another thing that has crossed my mind, I know Lauren had to take her heart medication once a day, did she have emergency pills as well? I am not familiar with Long QT, but I have asthma and have a pill I take once a day and then an inhaler I use if I'm having trouble breathing. Is it possible that Lauren had something like that? IE if she feels like her heart isn't beating the way it should she could have wanted to pick up medication from her apartment to get it back on track? Grasping at straws, I know, but could it be possible?

I agree with everything you said about HT. I don't believe her either, and I'm not sure if she was just blindly believing JR to Lauren's detriment, or if theres something more sinister going on. And I also agree about not believing anything most of the people involved in this say (POI or just random bystander), I think thats one of the things that makes this case so difficult. There isn't a witness or person involved who seems completely credible and whose opinion I personally trust, so I feel like I'm running in circles half the time.

I honestly apologize if anything I've said on here makes it seem like I'm disrespecting Lauren. That has never been, and never will be my intention. Whether or not Lauren drank or took any drugs (knowingly or unknowingly) she wasn't doing anything that many 20 somethings haven't done before. She deserved so, so much better from everyone involved in this. I'm trying to think about this logically and if that comes off as me insulting or disrespecting Lauren I'm sorry, that is not at all what I intended to do.

 

[kpeacock]

I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings, not my intention. But may I ask why
you think, at nearly 3 a.m., after she had been up and down the street to parties, and at Kilroy's, that now she was just stopping by her own apt at that hour for more drugs to go back out? At the same time, she is also being said to be nearly comatose. So, it does put Lauren in a bad light to imply she was so into drugs that although she was incapacitated , she must have been going for more, and then hitting the streets again. There is no evidence that she did more than snort a klonopin.
And about HT saying this and that, IMO, she isn't telling the truth, or at least not the whole truth. I am saying that I don't believe her. It's the same thing as having an opinion that others in this mess are also lying. Frankly, I think they are all lying about something.
I guess that if someone could prove that she was practically chased out or felt insecure staying at her own apt., and left to her demise, it would leave a tiny bit of room for a civil suit. That is if someone could prove that, so I can see how that would upset people who might have been involved from the sidelines, thinking that they could get in trouble from that angle.

No hurt feelings here, just want to be clear that I'm not victim blaming. I think several scenarios are possible, including what you've mentioned. I continue to think it's possible that they were both seeking to either continue the party or find a place to be alone. It hasn't seemed that LS left Smallwood *against* her will, though - just that she wasn't capable of good decision making either way.

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[Ixchel13]

I am in no way blaming the victim, and I find it rather cruel to suggest that I am. I want Lauren to be found, pretending that college kids don't drink or do drugs is unrealistic and unhelpful. I don't know what Lauren had taken/been given that night, and I don't know if she realized that she was in bad shape. I can only speak from personal experience, but I know there have been times when I've already had too much to drink and instead decide to go with friends to grab some more wine from someone's dorm room. Obviously I realize that was a bad decision the next morning, but in the moment I think I'm fine and more wine is a fabulous idea.

I've been on the opposite of that, trying to get a friend who was black out drunk home because she thought she was fine and wanted to go to a bar. Lauren might have thought she was fine at that point, or CR might have been the one who wanted to retrieve something from her apartment to continue the party. That isn't blaming the victim, its speculating about what might have happened.

If CR's goal was to take her home why didn't he do that?? Either before or after the punch. Did he say to ZO "I am taking her home, back off"? Did he call HT or someone else who lived near Lauren to come grab her and take her home after he got punched? No.

My question wasn't about who MB knows, that isn't new information. It also isn't new information that DB's family is fairly well established and theres a good chance he would have known of a hiding place on his way home. Or that DB and JR had been friends for a long time. My question was specifically how you know that ZO knows all these people, and I'd still like a link for that.

IU is a huge school. My guess is that ZO probably knew one or two of the people who have been mentioned on this board, but it hasn't been mentioned who specifically he knew... was he passing acquaintances with DR? Did he have a class with CR? Was he close enough with any of these people to know who Lauren was, know who she had been dating, know that she was still dating JW, know that JW was not waiting downstairs/at another party/in her room for her? Did he have a reason to be personally upset that she was with CR? I've seen nothing except your comments to suggest this, if you have information regarding it I'd be interested to see it.

And as far as the altercation continuing down the street later, there are cameras in smallwood. Do you think the police wouldn't have noticed if ZO and/or his friends followed them out? Were with them in the alley? I'm pretty sure the police would have been intrigued if Lauren was being followed by a mob.

yes, if there are working cameras at Smallwood and on the way from Smallwood to 10th and College, then ZO and friends would be on camera leaving Smallwood and maybe going home to 10th and College apts where he lived.

This places ZO and friends half-way between the corner she supposedly turned and her apt at Smallwood. just sayin, if ZO and roommates AB and BB were POIs maybe that's why.

 

[Ros]

I'm very interested in this - family and friend connections of the POIs, especially relating to Indiana/Michigan. Could be useful in investigating a cover up, IMO. Perhaps give clues to who had resources/access to transporting/hiding a body, for example. Did anyone have access to the Marina on Lake Monroe, or a boat somewhere? Access to land/property? Etc.

The lakes were searched early in the investigation, perhaps in response to a specific tip. But Lake Monroe is huge and visibility is so low that recreational scuba diving is forbidden. I do not know how thorough such a search could be.

 

[kpeacock]

On a different note, has anyone kept track of social media accounts (facebook, twitter, tumblr, instagram, etc) of the POIs? I've seen a few mentioned, and know that most have protected/hidden their accounts, but still wonder if anyone has a list going out there.

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[Ros]

Since people are concerned about the reliability of evidence discussed here, it seems like a good idea to differentiate totally unsubstantiated rumors from fact. There were rumors about ZO's involvement with drugs. He does not appear to have a criminal record involving drugs. You can look him up (and the others) on the My Case Indiana website - He has traffic violations and the same type of drinking charges as many of the others. http://mycase.in.gov/default.aspx

At one point I read through the entire comments sections on Gatto, etc. to look at the rumors about ZO, and I've posted about it here a few times. I believe that almost all of the posts about ZO were posted by the same person - The posts on PT, Gatto and the Dirty use identical language, and there is other reason to believe that they came from a single source. No one else has supported those claims, that I am aware of.

The only POI with drug related charges, IIRC, is Corey Rossman.

And then there were those weird posts on TG's blog from someone claiming to be ZO's sister when no such person was mentioned in the obit of ZO's mother.

 

[Ros]

Since people are concerned about the reliability of evidence discussed here, it seems like a good idea to differentiate totally unsubstantiated rumors from fact. There were rumors about ZO's involvement with drugs. He does not appear to have a criminal record involving drugs. You can look him up (and the others) on the My Case Indiana website - He has traffic violations and the same type of drinking charges as many of the others. http://mycase.in.gov/default.aspx

At one point I read through the entire comments sections on Gatto, etc. to look at the rumors about ZO, and I've posted about it here a few times. I believe that almost all of the posts about ZO were posted by the same person - The posts on PT, Gatto and the Dirty use identical language, and there is other reason to believe that they came from a single source. No one else has supported those claims, that I am aware of.

The only POI with drug related charges, IIRC, is Corey Rossman.

And then there were those weird posts on TG's blog from someone claiming to be ZO's sister when no such person was mentioned in the obit of ZO's mother.