IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[AbbeyR]

And then there were those weird posts on TG's blog from someone claiming to be ZO's sister when no such person was mentioned in the obit of ZO's mother.

I had forgotten about that one.

The more I look back, the more I think Gatto's blog was either him running wild with his own personal theory or totally orchestrated. Either way, I think it's odd how every single piece of 'breaking news' was a) trying to distance CR from Lauren (I've written a few rants about this, like this one: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9055470&postcount=336"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29[/ame]), b) trying to put the spotlight on other (invented) POI (ZO and company and the 'mystery man') and c) just about all of it turned out not to be true.

I also still wonder why he advocated so strongly on Corey's behalf, calling him the most 'forthcoming' of the POI, when all the rest of us had heard from CR was that he had 'amnesia' and wasn't talking.

I'm totally repeating myself, I know, but like I said - I have a lot of 'nagging questions' about that blog! Some of them, I think, we could probably find answers to with a little more digging.

 

[holly18]

On a different note, has anyone kept track of social media accounts (facebook, twitter, tumblr, instagram, etc) of the POIs? I've seen a few mentioned, and know that most have protected/hidden their accounts, but still wonder if anyone has a list going out there.

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk

I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, so mods please let me know if this breaks any rules and I'll delete it.
Most of the POIs have their accounts on lockdown, so I can't see anything there. HT used to have a fairly open profile but I just checked and I can't find it anymore. BW and BL both post a bit about finding Lauren. JW's isn't super private and he's had a bunch of profile photos of lauren since she disappeared. DR's isn't on lockdown

 

[holly18]

I had forgotten about that one.

The more I look back, the more I think Gatto's blog was either him running wild with his own personal theory or totally orchestrated. Either way, I think it's odd how every single piece of 'breaking news' was a) trying to distance CR from Lauren (I've written a few rants about this, like this one: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29), b) trying to put the spotlight on other (invented) POI (ZO and company and the 'mystery man') and c) just about all of it turned out not to be true.

I also still wonder why he advocated so strongly on Corey's behalf, calling him the most 'forthcoming' of the POI, when all the rest of us had heard from CR was that he had 'amnesia' and wasn't talking.

I'm totally repeating myself, I know, but like I said - I have a lot of 'nagging questions' about that blog! Some of them, I think, we could probably find answers to with a little more digging.

Its been more than 2 and a half years, and we haven't really gotten any new info from LE, I think its well worth repeating yourself!

It seems like there was a lot of info put out there at the start designed to steer the information/investigation in a certain way. (though, honestly I'm not even sure what way that is. Away from CR and JR? towards Lauren being responsible or ZO being responsible? if there's a clear pattern here I can't see it)

I do agree that TG's take on the story and witnesses seems to be weird. I have no knowledge of him pre-Lauren, was he well established or was this his main case?

 

[AbbeyR]

I do agree that TG's take on the story and witnesses seems to be weird. I have no knowledge of him pre-Lauren, was he well established or was this his main case?

TG was very defensive when people asked about his 'blog', insisting that he was an award winning journalist, not a 'blogger'. He has a background in broadcast news - this is the bio he has posted about himself:

Tony Gatto is an award winning-winning journalist based in New York City. Writing and reporting at the news site TonyGatto.com, Tony is a veteran of the broadcast news business, having held positions at CBS and ABC News.

His career began in 1980 as a desk assistant at WCBS Radio. He eventually worked his way up to associate news director. Along the way he gained experience in just about every aspect of broadcast news holding such positions as executive producer, managing editor, producer and newswriter.

Gatto joined ABC News in July of 1998 as Director, News and Sports Programming, responsible for daily network news coverage and New York newsroom operations. After serving in that capacity for two years, he was promoted to General Manager, Radio Operations for ABC News. Tony managed all domestic and international newsgathering, as well as planning, special events coverage and all network news operations. He was executive producer for many major stories, including War with Iraq, the death of Ronald Reagan, Vote 2004, 9/11 and the Impeachment of President Clinton.

During his career in local and network news, Tony has shared in numerous awards including a Columbia-duPont award and Peabody award for coverage of the 9/11 and the aftermath. He has also received awards from such distinguished organizations as the Radio Television News Directors Association, the Associated Press and the New York Press Club

But from what I could tell, he has not done any investigative journalism and Lauren's case seems to be the only case he has devoted a blog to.

I'm not sure what exactly brought him to Bloomington or whether he was working for any news organization or someone else at the time. If he had presented his blog as a blog I would be less confused about all this, but I feel like if you are going to present yourself as a journalist writing 'news', you should be be willing to answer questions and be transparent about who you are working for, what your policies are on obtaining and verifying information from anonymous sources, and be willing to acknowledge and follow up on incorrect information.

I do think that Gatto got a lot of people talking, and asked questions that local reporters wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole -- and he was able to do this by having this kind of blog. But some of his posts were pretty... unorthodox? to say the least (like when he tried to get info from, then attacked Lauren's friends because they wouldn't speak to him - and his focus on people not named at all in the investigation. He posted all kinds of info that led people to believe these people were key suspects, without ever even verifying if they were even in Bloomington the night Lauren disappeared). I wish he would have followed up or answered questions. Maybe he did with the PI's or LE...


JMO

 

[holly18]

TG was very defensive when people asked about his 'blog', insisting that he was an award winning journalist, not a 'blogger'. He has a background in broadcast news - this is the bio he has posted about himself:



But from what I could tell, he has not done any investigative journalism and Lauren's case seems to be the only case he has devoted a blog to.

I'm not sure what exactly brought him to Bloomington or whether he was working for any news organization or someone else at the time. If he had presented his blog as a blog I would be less confused about all this, but I feel like if you are going to present yourself as a journalist writing 'news', you should be be willing to answer questions and be transparent about who you are working for, what your policies are on obtaining and verifying information from anonymous sources, and be willing to acknowledge and follow up on incorrect information.

I do think that Gatto got a lot of people talking, and asked questions that local reporters wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole -- and he was able to do this by having this kind of blog. I just wish he would have followed up or answered questions. Maybe he did with the PI's or LE...


JMO

I have a family member who was very high up at ABC News. I'm going to ask around about TG because (I personally) would like to know how legitimate his biography is since he seems to be a large source about this case, I'd just like to know if his resume is legit or if he has just submitted tips to large news places without being verified or without his information being verified.

I asked him a few (two or three, nothing extensive) questions just about how certain he was about his sources, and received no reply. I appreciate that he brought attention to Lauren's case, but if he can't answer the most rudimentary of questions it makes me doubt everything. I never asked him to reveal sources, simply "are you sure xyz is valid?" He's another example, IMO, of someone involved with this case whose motives/truthfulness we can't determine.

I know I must just seem whiny at this point, but I wish we had one person whose story we could believe. It seems like everyone in this case could be lying to cover themselves (from serious charges or from marijuana charges, under age drinking, etc). I wish there was one person who came forward and said F- the consequences, this girl needs to be found and this is what I know. Lauren's life, and her parent's well being, is so much more important than a misdemeanor charge, it kills me that nobody is willing to make that leap.

 

[kpeacock]

I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, so mods please let me know if this breaks any rules and I'll delete it.
Most of the POIs have their accounts on lockdown, so I can't see anything there. HT used to have a fairly open profile but I just checked and I can't find it anymore. BW and BL both post a bit about finding Lauren. JW's isn't super private and he's had a bunch of profile photos of lauren since she disappeared. DR's isn't on lockdown

I actually reread the rules and I *think* (?) it's okay to discuss POIs public profiles - maybe wishful thinking that there might be a compiled list out there. Even profile pics on blocked accounts can be revealing. Other wishul thinking - that someone out there took screen shots before profiles shut down. I know I've seen a few quotes/pics of AB and JW statuses and tweets from 2011. Some people's boundaries & judgment are so murky in social media (especially cell phone generation kids)- more from DB, JR, etc. would be interesting.

 

[holly18]

I actually reread the rules and I *think* (?) it's okay to discuss POIs public profiles - maybe wishful thinking that there might be a compiled list out there. Even profile pics on blocked accounts can be revealing. Other wishul thinking - that someone out there took screen shots before profiles shut down. I know I've seen a few quotes/pics of AB and JW statuses and tweets from 2011. Some people's boundaries & judgment are so murky in social media (especially cell phone generation kids)- more from DB, JR, etc. would be interesting.

I have friends in common (unfortunately not close on either side) with a few but not with DB, JR or CR. FWIW, JW's friends seem to buy into him really missing Lauren, and he's the only one (other than BW or BL) who seems to be trying to get people to remember that she's still missing. I was expecting to see DR working to get her name out there, but as far as I can tell he hasn't, at all.

For the record, I'm not friends (facebook or otherwise) with any of the POI/people seriously involved in this, so there could easily be things that I've missed.

 

[AbbeyR]

...I wish we had one person whose story we could believe. It seems like everyone in this case could be lying to cover themselves (from serious charges or from marijuana charges, under age drinking, etc). I wish there was one person who came forward and said F- the consequences, this girl needs to be found and this is what I know. Lauren's life, and her parent's well being, is so much more important than a misdemeanor charge, it kills me that nobody is willing to make that leap.

So true, well said.

@Kpeacock: People definitely have screenshots - Unfortunately, they aren't allowed to be posted (I've asked Bessie :innocent

Edited to clarify: I think we are allowed to summarize and post a link or screen shot from social media as long as it is from an unprotected account, but not screen shots from private/ protected social media accts or people not named in MSM.

 

[holly18]

So true, well said.

@Kpeacock: People definitely have screenshots, both from unprotected and protected accounts. Unfortunately, they aren't allowed to be posted (I've asked Bessie :innocent

Sorry to butt in, but do you know if what I've posted (re: facebook) is allowed? I don't want to break the rules!

 

[kpeacock]

Well, honestly, I understand why we have these rules. I can also see how publishing those names on any public forum could be incentive for any perpetrator of crime in this case to continue to dodge discovery of evidence (assuming they're paranoid enough to be following along.)

Crime in the internet/smart phone age is proving to be very interesting, in terms of number of people paying attention and documenting in various ways. On one hand, perhaps justice is served more often. On the other, I feel for the innocent POIs who have had to learn harsh lessons on a grand public scale.

 

[AbbeyR]

I think it's fine, Holly! (But I've gotten a few mod scoldings and reminders of the rules, so I'm probably not the best person to ask, ha!) I only know about the screen shots because I've nagged Bessie about it.

It's too bad we don't have some kind of online archive that we could upload articles, docs, photos, etc. related to Lauren's case.

 

[AbbeyR]

I have a family member who was very high up at ABC News. I'm going to ask around about TG because (I personally) would like to know how legitimate his biography is since he seems to be a large source about this case, I'd just like to know if his resume is legit or if he has just submitted tips to large news places without being verified or without his information being verified.

I asked him a few (two or three, nothing extensive) questions just about how certain he was about his sources, and received no reply. I appreciate that he brought attention to Lauren's case, but if he can't answer the most rudimentary of questions it makes me doubt everything. I never asked him to reveal sources, simply "are you sure xyz is valid?" He's another example, IMO, of someone involved with this case whose motives/truthfulness we can't determine.

I had the same experience - and yes, let us know if you hear anything more about TG!

Edited to add: TG did reply to some questions here on WS, including some questions about his sources. He admitted, for ex, that the only witness he spoke to directly was the bar manager, and that he didn't think his sources for the bar incident at Kilroy's or the story of Corey running out of Smallwood were reliable. It's actually kind of interesting to go back and read those posts - you can kind of see how certain theories evolved.

 

[ontheclock]

TG was very defensive when people asked about his 'blog', insisting that he was an award winning journalist, not a 'blogger'. He has a background in broadcast news - this is the bio he has posted about himself:



But from what I could tell, he has not done any investigative journalism and Lauren's case seems to be the only case he has devoted a blog to.

I'm not sure what exactly brought him to Bloomington or whether he was working for any news organization or someone else at the time. If he had presented his blog as a blog I would be less confused about all this, but I feel like if you are going to present yourself as a journalist writing 'news', you should be be willing to answer questions and be transparent about who you are working for, what your policies are on obtaining and verifying information from anonymous sources, and be willing to acknowledge and follow up on incorrect information.

I do think that Gatto got a lot of people talking, and asked questions that local reporters wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole -- and he was able to do this by having this kind of blog. But some of his posts were pretty... unorthodox? to say the least (like when he tried to get info from, then attacked Lauren's friends because they wouldn't speak to him - and his focus on people not named at all in the investigation. He posted all kinds of info that led people to believe these people were key suspects, without ever even verifying if they were even in Bloomington the night Lauren disappeared). I wish he would have followed up or answered questions. Maybe he did with the PI's or LE...


JMO

Too bad we, the audience, didn't get the follow-up.

 

[holly18]

I had the same experience - and yes, let us know if you hear anything more about TG!

Edited to add: TG did reply to some questions here on WS, including some questions about his sources. He admitted, for ex, that the only witness he spoke to directly was the bar manager, and that he didn't think his sources for the bar incident at Kilroy's or the story of Corey running out of Smallwood were reliable. It's actually kind of interesting to go back and read those posts - you can kind of see how certain theories evolved.

Ok, thats pretty much what I remember but I wasn't sure if there was more that I'd missed. And I'll certainly let everyone here know if I get some followup information, I'm going to call or email my family member tomorrow and see if they know anything. Its worth a shot, right?

 

[Ixchel13]

I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, so mods please let me know if this breaks any rules and I'll delete it.
Most of the POIs have their accounts on lockdown, so I can't see anything there. HT used to have a fairly open profile but I just checked and I can't find it anymore. BW and BL both post a bit about finding Lauren. JW's isn't super private and he's had a bunch of profile photos of lauren since she disappeared. DR's isn't on lockdown

they have fb accounts under fake names/altered names. and yes people are following them.

 

[doubtingthomas]

Something I have been thinking about. MB stated he took LS over to JR because he knew her better. So I would assume that means he didn't know her that well and LS didn't know him that well(they only met the week before). Yet he also stated she wanted to party. So why would she want to party with someone she doesn't know when CR was in the apt. Even though MB says he put him to bed, if she was in the party mood she would probably go wake him up. As Ricky Ricardo use to say "you got some splainin to do".

 

[leilarose68]

I have friends in common (unfortunately not close on either side) with a few but not with DB, JR or CR. FWIW, JW's friends seem to buy into him really missing Lauren, and he's the only one (other than BW or BL) who seems to be trying to get people to remember that she's still missing. I was expecting to see DR working to get her name out there, but as far as I can tell he hasn't, at all.

For the record, I'm not friends (facebook or otherwise) with any of the POI/people seriously involved in this, so there could easily be things that I've missed.

is it sorta seen as common knowledge that lauren overdosed + one of the boys hid her body or do people in the friend group feel incredibly unsure of what happened? how much has anyone truly opened up? i got the sense that it was one of those everyone knows but no one talks about it kind of things.
i wonder if they've all just totally detached or if they feverishly read all the websleuths posts

 

[Jacobite]

Something I have been thinking about. MB stated he took LS over to JR because he knew her better. So I would assume that means he didn't know her that well and LS didn't know him that well(they only met the week before). Yet he also stated she wanted to party. So why would she want to party with someone she doesn't know when CR was in the apt. Even though MB says he put him to bed, if she was in the party mood she would probably go wake him up. As Ricky Ricardo use to say "you got some splainin to do".

I'd suspect she was asking Mike to take her home and offering him a drink as a reward for doing it.

 

[AbbeyR]

If the story is at all true about Lauren asking MB if he wanted to party, I'm wondering if this happened earlier in the night when they stopped there before Kilroy's (Maybe she asked him if he wanted to come along to the bar?) - I wonder if that whole first story was just MB omitting a big chunk of what happened between the time they left and when they got back to 5 N....

Aside from all of MB's statements sounding odd and unlikely, it's a little unbelievable that the only people who have reported Lauren talking after she left Kilroy's described her as 'incoherent' until she suddenly chats with MB and asks him to party?

Remember also though, the party comment came from CR's lawyer, not MB's, around the same time he was claiming that Lauren was helping Corey home (which wasn't true). MB's lawyer originally said that Lauren visited with MB for a while (didn't he say up to an hour?) before he watched her walk out the door heading to JR's. But that seems to have changed in MB's later statements, since the PIs report him saying that he was concerned about her and trying to get her to sleep on the couch before taking her to JR's, where they both called people looking for someone else to help.

 

[sammi89]

If the story is at all true about Lauren asking MB if he wanted to party, I'm wondering if this happened earlier in the night when they stopped there before Kilroy's (Maybe she asked him if he wanted to come along to the bar?) - I wonder if that whole first story was just MB omitting a big chunk of what happened between the time they left and when they got back to 5 N....

Aside from all of MB's statements sounding odd and unlikely, it's a little unbelievable that the only people who have reported Lauren talking after she left Kilroy's described her as 'incoherent' until she suddenly chats with MB and asks him to party?

Remember also though, the party comment came from CR's lawyer, not MB's, around the same time he was claiming that Lauren was helping Corey home (which wasn't true). MB's lawyer originally said that Lauren visited with MB for a while (didn't he say up to an hour?) before he watched her walk out the door heading to JR's. But that seems to have changed in MB's later statements, since the PIs report him saying that he was concerned about her and trying to get her to sleep on the couch before taking her to JR's, where they both called people looking for someone else to help.

That bothers me so much. If CR had to assist LS while walking when even he was in supposedly not great shape (MB had to put him to bed even! ) and then MB and JR were both worried about her and tried to get her to sleep on their couches, why why why would JR also claim in the same breath that she seemed perfectly fine to walk home? ullhair: