IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[AbbeyR]

@Ixchel, can you please direct us to the info on Aepi? Thanks!

JW was the president of the frat at the time when they were kicked off campus for various drug charges including drugging, i.e. administering rufies. <snipped>

I thought they were reported for hazing. I'm interested in the drug charges, if true.

 

[doubtingthomas]

@Ixchel, can you please direct us to the info on Aepi? Thanks!



I thought they were reported for hazing. I'm interested in the drug charges, if true.

I found this:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140989&page=5


Check out post on 06-20-2011, 10:35 AM by shortmommy. Don't know how true this is. Still trying to find a valid link.

 

[Ixchel13]

@Ixchel, can you please direct us to the info on Aepi? Thanks!



I thought they were reported for hazing. I'm interested in the drug charges, if true.

June 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

"Here’s the connection as read in the Chicago Tribune…”Friendships forged four years ago at the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity house on the IU campus may play a role in this investigation. It was at the AEP house that Spierer’s boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, met Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum is believed to be the last person to have seen Spierer at 4:30 a.m. at his apartment.”

"Now go read why AEP was kicked off campus (drugs and hazing) and you might see a connection. I have to wonder if there were any recent AEP grads or students on the 5-year plan around the night of June 3 to help their old buddy Jay out. Maybe when his lease is up the police will have a chance to survey his apartment. Some evidence doesn’t disappear."

(respectfully snipped by me from a news article.)


"Jay Rosenbaum and Jesse Wolff were Frat Brothers at Alpha Epsilon Pi before it was shut down due to hazing. One of the violations the Frat had was that they would take drunk students to remote places and leave them there to find their way back. During their time at Alpha Epsilon Pi, Jesse and Jay were journalists of sorts – you can read their columns in “The ManEater”

http://www.themaneater.com/search/?q=rosenbaum

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/1998/12/8/philosophy-homer-simpson/

(respectfully snipped.)

 

[AbbeyR]

June 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Here&#8217;s the connection as read in the Chicago Tribune&#8230;&#8221;Friendships forged four years ago at the Alpha Epsilon Pi fraternity house on the IU campus may play a role in this investigation. It was at the AEP house that Spierer&#8217;s boyfriend, Jesse Wolff, met Jay Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum is believed to be the last person to have seen Spierer at 4:30 a.m. at his apartment.&#8221;

Now go read why AEP was kicked off campus (drugs and hazing) and you might see a connection. I have to wonder if there were any recent AEP grads or students on the 5-year plan around the night of June 3 to help their old buddy Jay out. Maybe when his lease is up the police will have a chance to survey his apartment. Some evidence doesn&#8217;t disappear.

(respectfully snipped by me from a news article.)

There is no link here. I am asking for a link to support your statement "JW was the president of the frat at the time when they were kicked off campus for various drug charges including drugging, i.e. administering rufies." - please tell me where to go read this.

MOD NOTE:The rule on WS is that a "fact" must be supported with a link to an acceptable source.

I'm not sure why you are finding this difficult to understand, but it's frustrating that after having this thread shut down for two days because you were posting misinformation, that this continues.

 

[Mahouston69]

I agree with Ma Houston that they probably communicated by burner phones, and yes, I also agree and speculate that JR probably called JW to come get Lauren.

(Respectfully snipped to highlight...)

Super, super easy for JR to have called JW without showing up on his phone. We don't need any connection or smoking gun to sleuth JW because he
has from day one of Lauren's disappearance been a POI and remains thus.

They do not even need a "burner phone". I know a few tech savy folks who use TextNow and other apps that give you an untraceable phone number and the ability to call, and text at no cost via wifi and an iPod. You'd have to have the number off the device to trace pings etc, as it is a free app you use only a username to download.

 

[AbbeyR]

"Jay Rosenbaum and Jesse Wolff were Frat Brothers at Alpha Epsilon Pi before it was shut down due to hazing. One of the violations the Frat had was that they would take drunk students to remote places and leave them there to find their way back. During their time at Alpha Epsilon Pi, Jesse and Jay were journalists of sorts &#8211; you can read their columns in &#8220;The ManEater&#8221;

http://www.themaneater.com/search/?q=rosenbaum

http://www.themaneater.com/stories/1998/12/8/philosophy-homer-simpson/

(respectfully snipped.)

I see you've added these links - They don't answer the question though, so I'm not clear on the relevance. Especially since the article appears to be by someone named JEFF Wolff. (?)

 

[VeryVeritas]

In regards to the Spierers criticizing JW, they haven't always.

The Spierers have also said this:
[/b]
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...sappears-her-parents-exclusive-interview.html

I've wondered if the comments about him not being forthcoming are related to his quick conclusion that something was wrong, but I don't think he would be alone in that. It seems like a lot of her friends had some idea of what might have happened based on comments many of them made following her disappearance, especially HT (LS taking it too far). It's hard to know why they are less supportive now, but AFAIK, they seem to be putting the most pressure on the same people they have from the start - the last known people with her, hence the lawsuit. It doesn't sound like he was necessarily not cooperating from the start based on that quote though. AFAIK, there is nothing but speculation linking him to anything that happened that night.


The second phone call was not made to JW.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...tegori=MULTIMEDIA0501&Lopenr=306070067&Ref=PH



I mean, there is no business connection. At least, not on what has been posted. How are these businesses related? Until there is some connection between the two, I'm not following how there is a connection. Beyond that, the company in MI was a client of JW's company in NYC, so I don't see the connection?

I'm also not sure why the fact that both have money means they are connected? Also, can someone please provide a link stating the positions that JW and JR held in the fraternity?

I tend to believe that the Spierers would be more knowledgeable on whether their daughter was really friends with JR.

Thanks for the reminder that the 2nd phone call was to a male who she had been watching basketball with (earlier at JR's correct?)... We don't know who this person is because it's apparently a significant fact in the investigation... but not significant enough that they would conceal the gender or the connection. Of the known POI's it wouldn't be DR because the other call was made to him. It wouldn't be JR because it was his phone doing the calling. That leaves, CR and ?? Was MB there watching basketball? Not sure if that came up in his deposition, etc. Otherwise is it someone we can't talk about? Is DB a POI or someone that can't be talked about? Anyway, it wasn't JW...

It would be interesting to have a clearer picture of just how well people knew each other. Even if JW was today best pals with JR and they were in business together it'd be really bizarro... yet how would it help?

Other than JW not taking polygraph, and not being helpful... I'm having trouble understanding why JW remains a POI? If he had anything to do with it, that would mean his behavior the day of Lauren's disappearance was staged. Did it seem that way at all? There isn't the laundry list of inconsistencies that exist with CR/MB and JR's stories!

So... still can't fit JW into any plausible scenario.
I can't see JW just showing up at JR's at 4am with no calls or texts prior.
If JW was contacted it would have been done in person. Who would do that?

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes, I would expect people's stories to have minor discrepancies. However, when people are telling the truth, facts don't change. In the accounts we have from MB's lawyer, witnesses and the private investigators, there are major changes about where MB was, whether or not he was home all night, whether or not he was sober, what Lauren's condition was, and how she got to JR's. The POI have never given a consistent and coherent timeline of events in the couple of hours before Lauren went missing. This is pretty standard and expected in a missing person case.

About the "10 POI", I believe LE mentioned they were looking for information from up to 10 people in the immediate days following Lauren's disappearance. Since then, obviously they focused their investigation on certain people and those people have been consistently named by LE, the Spierers and the Private Investigators.

bbm how can you know this? no one has been cleared yet!

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks for the reminder that the 2nd phone call was to a male who she had been watching basketball with (earlier at JR's correct?)... <snipped>

No, earlier at Smallwood:

In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum&#8217;s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood.

Both were sleeping, neither picked up, and no messages were left.

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

*Note in the lawsuit docs, there are statements that JR and MB made those calls, not Lauren.

 

[doubtingthomas]

VeryVeritas: I thought the call was to a male who was watching the basketball game with LS and friends before she left to go to JR's. Can someone correct me if this is not true?

 

[Ixchel13]

Thanks for the reminder that the 2nd phone call was to a male who she had been watching basketball with (earlier at JR's correct?)... We don't know who this person is because it's apparently a significant fact in the investigation... but not significant enough that they would conceal the gender or the connection. Of the known POI's it wouldn't be DR because the other call was made to him. It wouldn't be JR because it was his phone doing the calling. That leaves, CR and ?? Was MB there watching basketball? Not sure if that came up in his deposition, etc. Otherwise is it someone we can't talk about? Is DB a POI or someone that can't be talked about? Anyway, it wasn't JW...

It would be interesting to have a clearer picture of just how well people knew each other. Even if JW was today best pals with JR and they were in business together it'd be really bizarro... yet how would it help?

Other than JW not taking polygraph, and not being helpful... I'm having trouble understanding why JW remains a POI? If he had anything to do with it, that would mean his behavior the day of Lauren's disappearance was staged. Did it seem that way at all? There isn't the laundry list of inconsistencies that exist with CR/MB and JR's stories!

So... still can't fit JW into any plausible scenario.
I can't see JW just showing up at JR's at 4am with no calls or texts prior.
If JW was contacted it would have been done in person. Who would do that?

BBM LE doesn't have to tell us why....but, they haven't cleared him.

 

[VeryVeritas]

They do not even need a "burner phone". I know a few tech savy folks who use TextNow and other apps that give you an untraceable phone number and the ability to call, and text at no cost via wifi and an iPod. You'd have to have the number off the device to trace pings etc, as it is a free app you use only a username to download.

Ok, that's possible, not likely in my view, but possible.

So let me get this theory straight:

1) JR makes 2 calls which are public, 1 to DR and 1 to unknown male who was with LS earlier (either at SW or at JR's watching BB)
2) JR then also places a STEALTH call to JW who just happens to be awake.
3) JW then comes to get LS
4a) By then LS is deceased and now JW is the hot seat with JR so they conspire? OR
4b) JW gets LS who is in horrific shape and then she dies after leaving JR's.
(Note JW's journey is also done in STEALTH, as he nor his vehicle show up on any cameras)

Do I have that Theory correct?

 

[VeryVeritas]

BBM LE doesn't have to tell us why....but, they haven't cleared him.

Of course they don't have to tell us why... I was hoping you or someone else had any idea why? Because I've seen no shred of anything that implicates him at all.

 

[Ixchel13]

Ok, that's possible, not likely in my view, but possible.

So let me get this theory straight:

1) JR makes 2 calls which are public, 1 to DR and 1 to unknown male who was at his place earlier when LS was there (around 12:30)
2) JR then also places a STEALTH call to JW who just happens to be awake.
3) JW then comes to get LS
4a) By then LS is deceased and now JW is the hot seat with JR so they conspire? OR
4b) JW gets LS who is in horrific shape and then she dies after leaving JR's.
(Note JW's journey is also done in STEALTH, as he nor his vehicle show up on any cameras)

Do I have that Theory correct?

LE told us about 2 phone calls that were made. They have never said ONLY two were made, and IMO, JMO, MOO, speculation, betcha more were made and LE knows by whom to whom.

 

[Ixchel13]

Of course they don't have to tell us why... I was hoping you or someone else had any idea why? Because I've seen no shred of anything that implicates him at all.

We can speculate why and have done so many times in many different ways

 

[VeryVeritas]

We can speculate why and have done so many times in many different ways

The way I go about things is to come up with a theory, or take someone else's theory and then use facts and reasoning to try to poke holes in it.
This sometimes invalidates the theory, other times it leads to a new theory.

Like I've said, I have seen nothing that implicates JW.

And now for example your statement that more than 2 calls could have been made is possible... ok... that's useful for theory. But if LE knew that JR contacted JW it seems to me that would be grounds for questioning or possibly an arrest.

All someone need do is ask JR under oath if calls / texts were made to JW.
Then he would have to explain why he left JW coming over out of his story. That's a huge inconsistency. And JW would have to explain why he lied, etc... So, I don't see how if LE has proof that JR contacted JW they would be doing nothing.

 

[Ixchel13]

I didn't ask for a link. I said I didn't make assumptions about other posters when they actually do claim special knowledge.

I said that I have never made claims that I have special knowledge pertaining to the POIs and that I am not a family or friend of the POI.

I think the insinuation that I am, or others are, is offensive and unnecessary simply because we disagree with the proposed theories that JW is involved.

I think most, if not all, of those who have disagreed have said they would change their opinion if other facts came to light about JW. So far it's speculation.

There's no need to insinuate that anyone is a friend or family member of the POIs so please stop.

yes, it's speculation. If I did have proof I'd be running down to the Bloomington PD and letting them know right away.

And once again, I am not trying to change your opinions! Keep them, have them, share them, link them! When you defend a POI, be prepared for others to not agree with you! When you disagree with someone who is sleuthing a POI, be prepared for them to disagree back. I said don't take it personally if I wonder why you are defending a POI. I mean, it's your valued opinion.
But, as Very Veritas wondered, why is Jesse a POI in the first place? I guess that's the question. It's just that LE operates in a different way then we do. They have profiling, and then there's buzz words, and then there's behaviorism. i.e.--

Profiling--always look at the bf first

Buzz words- did JW make the mistake of using buzz words that they look out for when questioning a suspect?

Behaviorism-- did he act a certain way that usually causes suspicion? Did he first tell the Spierers that everyone should take polys and then run right home
without a how do ya do? And then, there's the whole gamut of texts on Lauren's phone. Was he angry in those texts? We don't know. Something, something made LE name him a POI. We just don't know, that's why we speculate. But! dollars to donuts it's not because in the beginning, they were naming people POIs but then just forgot to unnamed them.
No, these same people are still POIs. Why does that bother people?

 

[Kimster]

This is where we stopped talking about each other and discuss the case again. Thank you.

 

[Mahouston69]

Ok, that's possible, not likely in my view, but possible.

So let me get this theory straight:

1) JR makes 2 calls which are public, 1 to DR and 1 to unknown male who was at his place earlier when LS was there (around 12:30)
2) JR then also places a STEALTH call to JW who just happens to be awake.
3) JW then comes to get LS
4a) By then LS is deceased and now JW is the hot seat with JR so they conspire? OR
4b) JW gets LS who is in horrific shape and then she dies after leaving JR's.
(Note JW's journey is also done in STEALTH, as he nor his vehicle show up on any cameras)

Do I have that Theory correct?

My personal theory is
1) yes
2) yes, awake and trying to reach LS probably. After 3years of "saving her", and putting up with her "drug abuse" according to his parents. I don't believe he went to bed after the game and never thought once where she was, what she was doing or who she was with. I don't believe he wasn't told what happened at Smallwood shortly after it happened and what condition she was in. I think he was up waiting to confront her once he knew where she was exactly, either on the phone or in person.
3) Text or call from JR, to JW, that she needs to go back to her apt, but has no key, no phone, no shoes....and maybe "hey...she just walked out...better hurry" (maybe sobriety test story is to make him not look indifferent but was glad she left and no longer his problem)

4) in my theory LS is still alive when she leaves JRs but once her angry, jilted, embarrassed boyfriend of three years finds her, on her way to his place, sees the condition she's in, is aware of what may or may not have taken place between her and CR, he snaps, they fight. She dies.

5) how far away does he live? Are there cameras between JRs and JWs?

Did he call his father to come before he knew she was missing and reported it to police?

Let's say MB really does put black out drunk CR to bed and watched her walk her to JRs? (He tries not to look like a jerk and changes it to walked her there)

JR knows MB saying this puts her at his place last, and has to move that attention away from him, but something must have gone terribly wrong between JW and LS, and he obviously doesn't want anyone to know about drugs, alcohol to minors etc and takes it upon himself to say he saw her then, but watched her walk to the corner, alone. Knowing if he doesn't mention calling JW then JW won't mention JR's party favors. Maybe the threat at the party was a real message, "leave and never mention calling me or I'll take you down with me" Unspoken frat brother agreement but no real trust because he blames JR instead of himself for that night... maybe.

I would be very interested to know if his own apt (which would have her DNA) was searched for any sign of her clothes she wore that night. Whether his phone, facebook, iPod apps were investigated as a POI closest to her with motive? I would search the areas between 5N and JW's place thoroughly.

Just a theory mixed with what we know and what we don't.

 

[Ixchel13]

My personal theory is
1) yes
2) yes, awake and trying to reach LS probably. After 3years of "saving her", and putting up with her "drug abuse" according to his parents. I don't believe he went to bed after the game and never thought once where she was, what she was doing or who she was with. I don't believe he wasn't told what happened at Smallwood shortly after it happened and what condition she was in. I think he was up waiting to confront her once he knew where she was exactly, either on the phone or in person.
3) Text or call from JR, to JW, that she needs to go back to her apt, but has no key, no phone, no shoes....and maybe "hey...she just walked out...better hurry" (maybe sobriety test story is to make him not look indifferent but was glad she left and no longer his problem)

4) in my theory LS is still alive when she leaves JRs but once her angry, jilted, embarrassed boyfriend of three years finds her, on her way to his place, sees the condition she's in, is aware of what may or may not have taken place between her and CR, he snaps, they fight. She dies.

5) how far away does he live? Are there cameras between JRs and JWs?

Did he call his father to come before he knew she was missing and reported it to police?

Let's say MB really does put black out drunk CR to bed and watched her walk her to JRs? (He tries not to look like a jerk and changes it to walked her there)

JR knows MB saying this puts her at his place last, and has to move that attention away from him, but something must have gone terribly wrong between JW and LS, and he obviously doesn't want anyone to know about drugs, alcohol to minors etc and takes it upon himself to say he saw her then, but watched her walk to the corner, alone. Knowing if he doesn't mention calling JW then JW won't mention JR's party favors. Maybe the threat at the party was a real message, "leave and never mention calling me or I'll take you down with me" Unspoken frat brother agreement but no real trust because he blames JR instead of himself for that night... maybe.
I would be very interested to know if his own apt (which would have her DNA) was searched for any sign of her clothes she wore that night. Whether his phone, facebook, iPod apps were investigated as a POI closest to her with motive? I would search the areas between 5N and JW's place thoroughly.

Just a theory mixed with what we know and what we don't.

very good theory