IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[AbbeyR]

My personal theory is
1) yes
2) yes, awake and trying to reach LS probably. After 3years of "saving her", and putting up with her "drug abuse" according to his parents. I don't believe he went to bed after the game and never thought once where she was, what she was doing or who she was with. I don't believe he wasn't told what happened at Smallwood shortly after it happened and what condition she was in. I think he was up waiting to confront her once he knew where she was exactly, either on the phone or in person.
3) Text or call from JR, to JW, that she needs to go back to her apt, but has no key, no phone, no shoes....and maybe "hey...she just walked out...better hurry" (maybe sobriety test story is to make him not look indifferent but was glad she left and no longer his problem)

4) in my theory LS is still alive when she leaves JRs but once her angry, jilted, embarrassed boyfriend of three years finds her, on her way to his place, sees the condition she's in, is aware of what may or may not have taken place between her and CR, he snaps, they fight. She dies.

5) how far away does he live? Are there cameras between JRs and JWs?

Did he call his father to come before he knew she was missing and reported it to police?

Let's say MB really does put black out drunk CR to bed and watched her walk her to JRs? (He tries not to look like a jerk and changes it to walked her there)

JR knows MB saying this puts her at his place last, and has to move that attention away from him, but something must have gone terribly wrong between JW and LS, and he obviously doesn't want anyone to know about drugs, alcohol to minors etc and takes it upon himself to say he saw her then, but watched her walk to the corner, alone. Knowing if he doesn't mention calling JW then JW won't mention JR's party favors. Maybe the threat at the party was a real message, "leave and never mention calling me or I'll take you down with me" Unspoken frat brother agreement but no real trust because he blames JR instead of himself for that night... maybe.

I would be very interested to know if his own apt (which would have her DNA) was searched for any sign of her clothes she wore that night. Whether his phone, facebook, iPod apps were investigated as a POI closest to her with motive? I would search the areas between 5N and JW's place thoroughly.

Just a theory mixed with what we know and what we don't.

(BBM) Just trying to follow along with you -- Even if we ignore issue of (lack of) evidence about JR and JW contacting each other, I'm not sure I understand the bolded part. If JR thought that JW was responsible for Lauren's death, why would he care about being caught with 'party favors'? I.e., if Lauren didn't die of an overdose but at the hands of JW, what charges would JR be on the hook for that would be worth the cost of being a suspect in Lauren's death and disappearance? What would he need JW for?

JR is the last person to be seen with Lauren and police can't verify his story that she left. He has a team of high profile defense attorneys. If he could point the finger elsewhere, I have no doubt, he would. JMO

 

[AbbeyR]

MB was forthcoming with his story first, before JR changing it slightly only after JR spoke up without solicitation and said she was at his place last. Why did JR do that instead of letting everyone think she was last with CR and MB?

MB was apparently forthcoming with about 4 different stories first.

Also, I'm not sure that he changed his story slightly after JR spoke up without solicitation? MB and CR's lawyers said from the beginning that they weren't the last to see her and that she went to a neighbors, they just didn't reveal JR's name to the media at the beginning.

 

[Mahouston69]

MB was apparently forthcoming with about 4 different stories first.

I believe his first story to LE was he offered to let her stay, she wanted to party still and he watched her walk over to JRs. (So he didn't look like a jerk) The neighbor, not MB said MB told him she was gone while he was putting CR to bed. The revised story that he walked her over and watched her make phone calls was through his attorney Garrison, I believe to quash the duty of care issue. IMO

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[Ixchel13]

I agree it stinks, said it myself in a few posts a while back.

This behavior is becoming commonplace for people who come from families with money. Personally it's hard for me to relate to the "not looking for LS" especially after only 2 days. But there are numerous cases these days where parents hire lawyers, social media suddenly evaporates, kid goes home and zips up. The idea that it is JW's parents who are calling these shots is supported by their aggressive public statements.

If you come up with inconsistencies in who he talked to, what was said, etc... which contradict that he was simply "the shocked boyfriend", or that he knew things before he should have known them... that would be useful.

If I recall correctly JW supposedly fell asleep sometime after 12:30, his last contact with LS. If there is anything that proved he was not asleep after that, it would put everything he said into question.

BBM ironically, you may have just listed two reasons why LE considers him a POI. Firstly, he may have contradicted classic things a shocked boyfriend would do, thus triggering their suspicion. Secondly, although no one can prove he wasn't asleep, he can't really prove he was.

 

[VeryVeritas]

#3, are we taking JRs word she had her keycard with her?

#5 I don't think he carried her body. I think he and she argued, fought and whatever happened, happened along the way and she is covered, hidden somewhere between the two residences. Maybe not far from 5N.

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Yes it is JR who said LS had her SW keycard and fake ID. Those items were not found elsewhere. (wallet / keys found in gravel lot, shoes and phone found at Kilroy's, apparently jewelry not found)

I have no reason to take his word, but considering these items were not found, how else would he know that? My view has been that she was not conscious and these items were discovered in a body search (else they would have been dropped like all else).

If he so casually laid the body (covered it with what?), it would be odd that after 3 years it would not have been found. It seems he would not have had time to go back and move it.

 

[Mahouston69]

(BBM) Just trying to follow along with you -- Even if we ignore issue of (lack of) evidence about JR and JW contacting each other, I'm not sure I understand the bolded part. If JR thought that JW was responsible for Lauren's death, why would he care about being caught with 'party favors'? I.e., if Lauren didn't die of an overdose but at the hands of JW, what charges would JR be on the hook for that would be worth the cost of being a suspect in Lauren's death and disappearance? What would he need JW for?

JR is the last person to be seen with Lauren and police can't verify his story that she left. He has a team of high profile defense attorneys. If he could point the finger elsewhere, I have no doubt, he would. JMO

If JR honestly isn't sure but only suspects because he didn't witness anything, it can never be proven HE did anything to Lauren either. He won't want to point the finger at JW without proof and risk JW revealing all JR is into....including drugs, alcohol to minors. That's enough jail time on its own and that could be the result of him saying anything about JW being called or asked to get Lauren and LE might know this, not make it public and still not have enough evidence to arrest JW. They may be waiting for more evidence, a body, or a miraculous confession.

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[AbbeyR]

I believe his first story to LE was he offered to let her stay, she wanted to party still and he watched her walk over to JRs. (So he didn't look like a jerk) The neighbor, not MB said MB told him she was gone while he was putting CR to bed. The revised story that he walked her over and watched her make phone calls was through his attorney Garrison, I believe to quash the duty of care issue. IMO

I'm not sure we know what version(s) MB told LE and when.

IIRC:

The story that she told MB she wanted to party actually came from CR's lawyer.

MB's lawyer originally said Lauren visited with MB for a while (up to an hour in some reports) and then he watched her walk out the door, headed to a neighbors.

The witness at CVS says MB told him he watched her walk out the door and walk towards home.

VS said MB told her Lauren left while he was upstairs, and they never saw her again.

The reports from the investigators and in the lawsuit docs say that MB said he was concerned about Lauren making it home safely, so brought her over to JR's, where MB watched JR make the phone calls and/or they made the phone calls together. In the last story, he last saw her on JR's couch, I believe.

Those are the versions I remember.

 

[AbbeyR]

If JR honestly isn't sure but only suspects because he didn't witness anything, it can never be proven HE did anything to Lauren either. He won't want to point the finger at JW without proof and risk JW revealing all JR is into....including drugs, alcohol to minors. That's enough jail time on its own and that could be the result of him saying anything about JW being called or asked to get Lauren and LE might know this, not make it public and still not have enough evidence to arrest JW. They may be waiting for more evidence, a body, or a miraculous confession.

Not really though. After all, there seem to other witnesses to this, and he hasn't been charged with anything. This is, I think, why the PI's stressed in the LoHud article that the issue of doing and buying drugs is so prevalent that they did not see it as a relevant explanation for the POI withholding information.

 

[VeryVeritas]

If JR honestly isn't sure but only suspects because he didn't witness anything, it can never be proven HE did anything to Lauren either. He won't want to point the finger at JW without proof and risk JW revealing all JR is into....including drugs, alcohol to minors. That's enough jail time on its own and that could be the result of him saying anything about JW being called or asked to get Lauren and LE might know this, not make it public and still not have enough evidence to arrest JW. They may be waiting for more evidence, a body, or a miraculous confession.

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In this scenario, what's to stop JW from making an anonymous tip of where the body is?

 

[VeryVeritas]

I'm not sure we know what version(s) MB told LE and when.

IIRC:

The story that she told MB she wanted to party actually came from CR's lawyer.

MB's lawyer originally said Lauren visited with MB for a while (up to an hour in some reports) and then he watched her walk out the door, headed to a neighbors.

The witness at CVS says MB told him he watched her walk out the door and walk towards home.

VS said MB told her Lauren left while he was upstairs, and they never saw her again.

The reports from the investigators and in the lawsuit docs say that MB said he was concerned about Lauren making it home safely, so brought her over to JR's, where MB watched JR make the phone calls and/or they made the phone calls together. In the last story, he last saw her on JR's couch, I believe.

Those are the versions I remember.

This thing with MB being at JR's to watch the calls is new (to me anyway).
What I find interesting is that JR's original account did not mention MB being there for all of this. Why leave that out? And then what time span are we talking about here? MB called JR at 3:30... how long did it take him to get to JR's with LS when they live just a staircase apart? Then he's still there when the calls are made at 4:15 That means MB was there for 30 to 45 minutes! That's quite a while for JR to not mention him. So I find it really curious that LS is supposedly leaving a few minutes after that... and so does MB. MB can't walk her 2 blocks, JR can't walk her 2 blocks but MB leaves about the same time. huh?

Another thing is that in MB's various stories he never mentioned LS's condition being what was seen on Cameras prior to showing up at his place, or what JR described in terms of intoxication and injuries. The stories usually carried the opposite connotation.

 

[AbbeyR]

VV - those things bother me so much! Every time I consider the possibility that Lauren left 5 N, I find myself coming back to these stories. They make no sense.

 

[akh]

A point to remember:
Someone not appearing on video is not evidence of their innocence. Obviously something happened and it's not on video or this case would be over. Therefore, the list of persons of interest doesn't get narrowed down by arguing for anyone's potential innocence simply because 'they would've been on camera if they were involved'. Even if someone would argue a particular POI would have to be the luckiest criminal in the world to have been involved yet not been caught on video or by a witness, the fact still remains whatever transpired that fateful night apparently escaped the camera's eye or the eyes of witnesses. So however implausible, that is still what must've occurred (unless LE is sitting on incriminating video for some reason).

So a lack of video evidence doesn't really mean anything to someone's potential innocence.

 

[AbbeyR]

A point to remember:
Someone not appearing on video is not evidence of their innocence. Obviously something happened and it's not on video or this case would be over. Therefore, the list of persons of interest doesn't get narrowed down by arguing for anyone's potential innocence simply because 'they would've been on camera if they were involved'. Even if someone would argue a particular POI would have to be the luckiest criminal in the world to have been involved yet not been caught on video or by a witness, the fact still remains whatever transpired that fateful night apparently escaped the camera's eye or the eyes of witnesses. So however implausible, that is still what must've occurred (unless LE is sitting on incriminating video for some reason).

So a lack of video evidence doesn't really mean anything to someone's potential innocence.

I agree for the most part, but not all scenarios are equal, depending on the possibilities of being caught on video.

I.e., Some scenarios can be ruled out due to cameras. For ex. We know LE has evidence of when DR left and returned to Smallwood because he was on camera, which is likely the case for anyone at Smallwood. From what I understand from the posts about the cameras from Btown and a few snippets from LE, the same is likely true for 10th and College. We also know, for example, that the 'mystery man' encounter didn't happen at 3:38 because LE said so on the basis of reviewing surveillance video from that location.

I'm not sure how to factor the chances of being caught on camera comparing say, the route that the guys at 5 N would have to take leaving with Lauren, vs. the route that Lauren would have to take to get from JR's to JW's (or vice versa)

I know some people here have done some excellent work documenting cameras and trying to figure this out, so others may have a better idea (I'm bad at maps! Plus, it's hard to know about the quality and scope of the cameras) I at least hope LE has a better idea, since they said they had hundreds of hours of video to review. I think it's at least possible that LE does have relevant video surveillance as well - for example, if they had identified a car belonging to a POI early Friday morning at an intersection, this may be enough evidence for a search warrant, and to keep someone the focus of an investigation, but it wouldn't be enough for an arrest.

 

[doubtingthomas]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ers-experts-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

Five of those who've been involved in the investigation — Jesse Wolff, Lauren's boyfriend; and friends Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and David Rohn, who all saw her during the last few hours before she disappeared — have retained lawyers.

Is this a misprint? Wasn't aware JW had seen LS that night. Also have a question about JW texting. Do we know when JW sent that last text to LS because they were suppose to be getting together after the game. If he had sent a text at 3:00, after claiming he went to be bed at 2:30, then he would still be awake at 3. And if awake at 3, why not 3:30 or 4. He also sent a text to her that morning which is when the employee replied she left her phone there. So if employee is texting back, did they happen to read any of the text and know when last text was sent by JW. Might be a good reason why he went to pick up the phone.

 

[holly18]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ers-experts-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

Five of those who've been involved in the investigation — Jesse Wolff, Lauren's boyfriend; and friends Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and David Rohn, who all saw her during the last few hours before she disappeared — have retained lawyers.

Is this a misprint? Wasn't aware JW had seen LS that night. Also have a question about JW texting. Do we know when JW sent that last text to LS because they were suppose to be getting together after the game. If he had sent a text at 3:00, after claiming he went to be bed at 2:30, then he would still be awake at 3. And if awake at 3, why not 3:30 or 4. He also sent a text to her that morning which is when the employee replied she left her phone there. So if employee is texting back, did they happen to read any of the text and know when last text was sent by JW. Might be a good reason why he went to pick up the phone.

It might just be me, but the way I read that list was JW, lauren's boyfriend, and then CR MB JR DR, the four of whom saw her during the last few hours. The semicolon separates JW from the rest of them, he's identified as her boyfriend, not as one of the last to see her. AFAIK there hasn't been anything saying that he saw her during those hours (which doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen)

 

[holly18]

This thing with MB being at JR's to watch the calls is new (to me anyway).
What I find interesting is that JR's original account did not mention MB being there for all of this. Why leave that out? And then what time span are we talking about here? MB called JR at 3:30... how long did it take him to get to JR's with LS when they live just a staircase apart? Then he's still there when the calls are made at 4:15 That means MB was there for 30 to 45 minutes! That's quite a while for JR to not mention him. So I find it really curious that LS is supposedly leaving a few minutes after that... and so does MB. MB can't walk her 2 blocks, JR can't walk her 2 blocks but MB leaves about the same time. huh?

Another thing is that in MB's various stories he never mentioned LS's condition being what was seen on Cameras prior to showing up at his place, or what JR described in terms of intoxication and injuries. The stories usually carried the opposite connotation.

This is really strange to me too. Wouldn't JR want to emphasize that he wasn't the only one with Lauren during that period? He's getting the most heat for being the last to see her

Its also weird to me that MB described her condition so differently than JR and than what was on tape. I get him leaving that out the first time he spoke, but now that JR has said Lauren was visibly out of it and injured, why wouldn't MB mention something about it in one of his newer statements? Even something simple like "she seemed out of it, I don't know her very well so I brought her over to JR's because I thought he knew her better and I had to work on my paper" would make more sense than saying she "wanted to party"

 

[holly18]

If JR honestly isn't sure but only suspects because he didn't witness anything, it can never be proven HE did anything to Lauren either. He won't want to point the finger at JW without proof and risk JW revealing all JR is into....including drugs, alcohol to minors. That's enough jail time on its own and that could be the result of him saying anything about JW being called or asked to get Lauren and LE might know this, not make it public and still not have enough evidence to arrest JW. They may be waiting for more evidence, a body, or a miraculous confession.

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This is something I don't understand, if JR was worried about being honest/pointing fingers/ whatever because of drug or alcohol charges, wouldn't that seem small at this point? If you google his name almost everything is about how he was the last person to see Lauren alive, and he's a POI in her disappearance and possibly death, as well as allegations that he was supplying people with alcohol and drugs. Wouldn't being suspected of harming or hiding Lauren cast a much bigger shadow over him than giving alcohol to 19 and 20 year olds?

This isn't really directed at you, I've thought about the 5N boys covering for someone else (mainly DB) in order to keep other things quiet, but I can never wrap my mind around three years of silence, it just seems so weird to me that in order to avoid charges for drinking/drugs (which any of them could probably get immunity for if they disclosed information about what happened to Lauren) they're fine with being suspected of disappearing Lauren? It may well just be me, but I can never quite make that work in my head.

 

[doubtingthomas]

It might just be me, but the way I read that list was JW, lauren's boyfriend, and then CR MB JR DR, the four of whom saw her during the last few hours. The semicolon separates JW from the rest of them, he's identified as her boyfriend, not as one of the last to see her. AFAIK there hasn't been anything saying that he saw her during those hours (which doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen)

The way I read it the semicolon separates JW as her boyfriend and the rest as just her friends. But it doesn't say the four of whom saw her, it says, who ALL saw her....

 

[Ixchel13]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ers-experts-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

Five of those who've been involved in the investigation — Jesse Wolff, Lauren's boyfriend; and friends Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and David Rohn, who all saw her during the last few hours before she disappeared — have retained lawyers.

Is this a misprint? Wasn't aware JW had seen LS that night. Also have a question about JW texting. Do we know when JW sent that last text to LS because they were suppose to be getting together after the game. If he had sent a text at 3:00, after claiming he went to be bed at 2:30, then he would still be awake at 3. And if awake at 3, why not 3:30 or 4. He also sent a text to her that morning which is when the employee replied she left her phone there. So if employee is texting back, did they happen to read any of the text and know when last text was sent by JW. Might be a good reason why he went to pick up the phone.

good one; not to mention the angry texts he might have sent, speculation, moo, should he have "awakened" and jmo,moo, found out what was going on.


I'm beginning to wonder, was anyone involved that evening really asleep? or were they all up and buzzing around about the whole situation, starting with the people watching the game at Smallwood, on to the pre-party at JR's, back down to Kilroy's, the all-important (?) altercation at SW, and then splitting up to SW, 10th and College and 5N to after hours parties? In this climate, and a big IF but if Lauren did leave, she could have encountered any of these people,
or any of the nameless (to us) hangers on that were at these satellite parties.

It's simple why some people here believe JW is suspect. He claims to not know any of this is going on, and some people find that hard to believe; in the same way it's hard to believe MB's changing story or that JR saw Lauren rounding the curb. Someone is saying something, and some people are expressing
disbelief.

For example, MB says Lauren asked him if he wanted to party. He also said
he offered her the couch. So first she's up, and then he thinks she needs to lay down? More likely, if they put CR to bed, then MB says hey Lauren, do you want to crash here? No, she says, I want to go home. MB, well first let's go back to JR's and party and call a ride for you there. I mean it could be as simple as she wanted to go to JR's to get rid of MB and call someone to come and get her because she was lucid enough to know she couldn't make it home. Maybe. MOO, the guy who was called last was a roommate and/or frat bro of JW and he's the one who was watching the game with LS and HT. Lauren leaves with DR, leaving HT there to gossip about Lauren. Just a scenario.

Then, as Ma Houston has pointed out, who is most likely to be called? If JR
couldn't get ahold of DR, maybe he called one of JW's roommates who relayed the message. Reminder, ALL or most of JW's roommates were also Aepis, and they also lived in the surrounding houses. LE is telling us about only the phone calls JR has admitted making, or all of the ones he admitted making that they want us and the POIs to know about.

 

[Ixchel13]

It might just be me, but the way I read that list was JW, lauren's boyfriend, and then CR MB JR DR, the four of whom saw her during the last few hours. The semicolon separates JW from the rest of them, he's identified as her boyfriend, not as one of the last to see her. AFAIK there hasn't been anything saying that he saw her during those hours (which doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen)

either way, it's slightly misleading and actually David Rohn last saw her after they went up to JR's and he's seen on video entering SW at 12:something, so he last saw her 4 hours past not "last few" meaning 3.

Most of us realize there's something hinky with the timeline but we don't know what, despite the very detailed camera schematics, diagrams of the paths they took cross referenced with timelines, etc.

Now when we follow cases like this in the UK, for example, where their cameras are very organized, govt. operated, people get paid on a regular basis just to service them, etc, then they are excellent for solving crimes.
Places here like convenience stores, for example, have a high incidence of robbery so you just know those cameras are rolling, and have been effective.

But depending on apartment complexes cameras to be working properly?
Sometimes, maybe, most of the time, it's a crapshoot, a scare tactic.

And the ones at intersections--are they there to monitor sidewalk traffic, or to record traffic?
Are they there for our safety or for traffic monitoring purposes? Just don't see those intersection cameras as being that good of a help.
We've seen in different cases that LE has withheld camera info whenever they feel they should.