IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

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Going back to areas searched earlier, like the landfill, whatever happened with the limestone quarries? It sounds like they might be difficult to search too.

It looks like from Texas EquuSearch brought in drones early to search them because they are difficult to search (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/firstatfour/story?section=firstatfour&id=8168884), but it looks like LE put a stop to the use of drones fairly quickly in LS' case (http://www.suasnews.com/2014/04/286...deral-drone-ban-is-thwarting-rescue-missions/).

I felt really bad for CS & her husband reading that. I wonder if there was any credible leads on the limestone quarries? Do the college kids there frequent them, especially the out-of-state kids? I hope LE has somehow checked them out since!
 
if we're pretending it's Bob, why not pretend, like what if JR and Bob had a pretend business together, and if a huge horrible scandal broke out, their pretend business would crash? theoretically.

So essentially in this case Bob would be DB? (sorry for sticking everyone with the name bob! It was just easier to type than mystery man) Personally, I find the DB angle easier to understand than the Mystery Man being someone else. I can understand JR covering for DB to an extent, especially if DB was responsible for hiding Lauren, but I don't know that MB would cover for JR or DB, especially after so long. The more I think about it the more I really think that all these guys (JR, MB, CR, DB) have to have something on each other to keep them sticking to the same story for so long.

I keep coming back to the fact that if you google any of these boys, JR, CR, MB, DB, JW, the first thing that pops up is that they may be connected to the disappearance and likely death of a young girl. I really believe that if any of them could clear themselves or shift the blame, they would have done so. I have a part time job, and one of my most recent tasks has been hiring an intern. Most of the people who have applied are way upper middle class to wealthy, and my bosses work in a pretty upscale industry, but the first thing I'm told to do is google the applicant's name and see what pops up. I guarantee you if anything like this popped up they'd be dismissed immediately.

I also recall reading in one article (I'll try to find the link and edit this post) that a reporter called DB and JR's business and JR apparently didn't work there anymore. I graduated with a lot of people (less than a year ago) who had goals of setting up tech start ups, some of them made some progress and then gave up, but most of them stuck with it for a few weeks and then moved on to other things.
 
Found the link,
"Now: Formed Imovation Solutions with childhood friend David Bleznak in January 2012. The Birmingham, Mich.-based company promotes brands by developing advertisement video games for mobile device and social media platforms. They created an "advergame" for Five Hour Energy drink.

A phone call last week to the number listed for Imovation Solutions resulted in a call to a company called Bleznak Associates. The woman who answered the phone said Jay Rosenbaum does not work there"
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2013/06/02/7175267.htm
 
Found the link,
"Now: Formed Imovation Solutions with childhood friend David Bleznak in January 2012. The Birmingham, Mich.-based company promotes brands by developing advertisement video games for mobile device and social media platforms. They created an "advergame" for Five Hour Energy drink.

A phone call last week to the number listed for Imovation Solutions resulted in a call to a company called Bleznak Associates. The woman who answered the phone said Jay Rosenbaum does not work there"
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2013/06/02/7175267.htm

Depending on a few factors, that response could've just been a blow off...
 
I researched the company Imovation Solutions once, and got the impression that nothing much was happening with it now. The limited amount of PR done for the company seems to be two twitter accounts (ImovationS, and Work Day Marathon), with a few photos of a "weekly winner" of promotional items. The first "winner", in November 2012? Mike Beth:

https://mobile.twitter.com/WorkDayMARATHON/status/266594045965520896

Last tweet was in July 2013. Interestingly, the male character in the advergame is called Ray "TheJosenOne" Jones. (Really?)

It seems the company also launched an i-phone app for social networking that fizzled: https://t.co/05qSuGKj6O

On FB, both JR and CR go by first name + middle name. JR appears to have a girlfriend in NYC, and it wouldn't surprise me if he spent most of his time there, where it's easier to be anonymous.

CR's google search results are apparently effective enough that he's not listed as an employee/agent on the website of the realty company he works for, though he is listed as "Corey Evan" as a contact on listings and on yelp reviews.
 
Last tweet was in July 2013. Interestingly, the male character in the advergame is called Ray "TheJosenOne" Jones. (Really?)

LOL is the character JR??? I'm pretty sure if you use just "Ray" and "Josen" you would have his twitter handle.
 
That has always worried me too. It didn't seem like LE necessarily wanted to search at first despite public pressure/rumors so I definitely agree there must have been something credible. I can imagine that the search itself might be difficult let alone other complications - like what if they pegged the wrong dumpster and weren't even in the right area? Hopefully there was only one or two options that have routes that would have permitted someone to get to it without cameras/witnesses catching them at some point.

I think everyone is with you on the second statement. In HB's case, LE/TBI was silent for a LONG time before making an arrest (seemingly out of nowhere!) and without really indicating whether they found HB or not, so I've been hoping something similar might happen soon for LS.

Reasons to search the Dump over myriads of other places:

1) Supposed cadaver dog hit at Dumpster behind 5N.
2) The only proof of where LS last existed was the gravel lot as caught on camera behind 5N. What lies between her last absolute known whereabouts and 5N is the Dumpster. Her wallet and keys were found a short distance from where she fell. Between the wallet/keys and 5N was the Dumpster.
3) LE has some footage of cameras with views of the streets.
The white truck was proof of street cameras. So LE would know what cars were or were not driving at the crucial hours when Lauren was last seen on the alley cam falling into the gravel lot. If they had few to zero possibilities that a vehicle transported LS out of the 5N / gravel lot area, then where would a body go? The alternative would be dumpsters, sewers, in the construction nearby, etc... Dumpsters would be high up on the list because garbage bags, her size, and frequent pick ups would make it difficult.

Maybe they have more?
 
How does one get buzzed in?

I assume they mean they tried to ring ZC's apt (however this is done) and received no answer.

Anyway, LE and the PI's have both said it didn't happen later, so I don't personally find this part of the timeline fishy. I just think it was thrown off by speculation about the 'mystery man', which was nothing more than a red herring.

If it wasn't ZC who reported seeing and hearing LS fall over in a sitting position to make an audible head on concrete sound, then who was it? This happened on the steps outside 10th and College (ZC's building). It's also my understanding that ZC was not alone.
 
Found the link,
"Now: Formed Imovation Solutions with childhood friend David Bleznak in January 2012. The Birmingham, Mich.-based company promotes brands by developing advertisement video games for mobile device and social media platforms. They created an "advergame" for Five Hour Energy drink.

A phone call last week to the number listed for Imovation Solutions resulted in a call to a company called Bleznak Associates. The woman who answered the phone said Jay Rosenbaum does not work there"
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2013/06/02/7175267.htm

maybe he doesn't work there, physically, or maybe it's a client of his.
 
If it wasn't ZC who reported seeing and hearing LS fall over in a sitting position to make an audible head on concrete sound, then who was it? This happened on the steps outside 10th and College (ZC's building). It's also my understanding that ZC was not alone.

I'm confused about how ZC is being talked about as being part of the story at this point at all. The only mention of her was that she was in her apt. sleeping, and didn't answer the door, right?

It was the witness (bar manager) who described the scene and hearing the audible thud as Lauren's head hit the concrete. From the PI and LE's statements, it seems that they are also going by video surveillance.

Edited to add:

Shortly after 3 a.m. June 3, 2011, a drunken Spierer – who’d just fallen on her face and smacked her head on concrete – and her companion Corey Rossman rang the doorbell to Camp’s apartment, where she and her three roommates were asleep.

Since no one answered, the two left, with Rossman slinging Spierer over his shoulders as he carried her down the steps. An hour later, she vanished.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says
 
no, Qualters is saying that the witness
is reporting seeing Lauren at a different time than others saw her, and that he couldn't deny that the witness saw Lauren.


Seems like if he wanted to debunk the witness, even gently, he would have used a clearer tone, such as, "the event described by the witness is on tape
and is witnessed by others at a different time."

Instead, he is obliquely saying that the witness could have seen Lauren, but at a different time than the others reported seeing her. Qualters definitely doesn't say what the witness saw happened an hour earlier.

And while we're at it, just who are the other witnesses to the initial altercation at 10th and College, when Lauren and CR were trying to get in ZC's apt?
That's where it gets weird, cause see these witnesses remember things that CR can't because of his amnesia, So, theoretically, if these witnesses were also involved later in the second altercation at 10th and College, they could easily insert the head smack into the first altercation with CR and he can't say it didn't happen or it will blow his whole deal. The PIs have her on tape falling,
but not the head smack.

BBM. I'll post it one more time... He is responding in this quote to a question about Gatto's report of the 3:38 witness, which had been picked up by the media (When it says 'the time reported by other sources', this is what they are referencing). It is clear that the information about the times is based on video surveillance -- Dt. Q. states that they have talked to the witness, and that Lauren does indeed appear on video with a man who they have identified, at that location (i.e. referencing the story that the witness recounted) Only, not at the time reported -- because when they reviewed video an hour later at 3:38 (i.e. the time in Gatto's post), she does not appear on video. Therefore - the incident with Lauren and the man on video was an hour before 3:38 -- Get it?

Qualters addressed a blogger’s report of a “mysterious man” in the area of 10th and College at about 3:38 a.m. June 3. He said investigators have reviewed video evidence that does not support that either Spierer or anyone unknown to police was in that area at that time.

“What I’m here to tell you is that we have reviewed the video, not only the timeline that we have been using, ... and where Lauren does in fact appear ... she does appear in that video with someone that is already known to investigators. We have also reviewed it during the time period where it has been reported, essentially an hour later (at 3:38 a.m.), and we do not find any evidence that supports that information,” Qualters said.
...
While Qualters said he had not spoken to this witness, he acknowledged the witness had been interviewed by police: “We had spoken with someone.” He said investigators “do not have any video evidence that supports what had been reported by that particular witness.” Witness accounts can be off, he said.

“I can’t say that she didn’t see Lauren,” Qualters continued. “It does not appear that she saw Lauren at the time that was reported by other sources.”


Every statement from Qualter's required reading a few times though, I found! Nothing LE has said about this case has been very direct, mostly, I think because they were not revealing the identities of the POI early on. This is exactly why I wish they would have clarified or given an update on these statements, because they seem to have left a lot of confusion.
:deadhorse:

Also, what are you referring to when you say "altercation" at 10th and college? there was no report of an altercation there, only at Smallwood.
 
it's never a popular notion but i always try to stick to the simplest theory in this kinds of cases. i say if you can't sum it up in a sentence without commas then it's too complex;

maybe the reason their story has held up is because they aren't lying and someone else harmed her.

obviously they appear to have been less than helpful but that could be an "entitlement" personality trait kicking in. e.g. - if they were using drugs or doing other bad things but really had nothing to do with her disappearance then maybe they're not being helpful because they don't feel like they need to be.

i keep coming back to the reality that these guys aren't hardened professional criminals. they're dumb college kids. it's hard for me to believe they'd be able to hide a body, cover up evidence of a crime, and have a story that all involved parties stick to for years without being caught. :twocents:
 
it's never a popular notion but i always try to stick to the simplest theory in this kinds of cases. i say if you can't sum it up in a sentence without commas then it's too complex;

maybe the reason their story has held up is because they aren't lying and someone else harmed her.

obviously they appear to have been less than helpful but that could be an "entitlement" personality trait kicking in. e.g. - if they were using drugs or doing other bad things but really had nothing to do with her disappearance then maybe they're not being helpful because they don't feel like they need to be.

i keep coming back to the reality that these guys aren't hardened professional criminals. they're dumb college kids. it's hard for me to believe they'd be able to hide a body, cover up evidence of a crime, and have a story that all involved parties stick to for years without being caught. :twocents:

I totally agree with you about the first part -- if you can't sum it up in a straightforward way, something is wrong. But I would say this about the POI -- their stories have not held up at all. The private investigators - who know more about this case than we do, having talked directly to the POI - have said their stories are conflicting, don't add up and that they are withholding information.

Also, taking a look through this site will show that there are plenty of dumb people who get away with horrendous crimes. The only reason it sounds simpler to say that someone else harmed Lauren is because it is based on nothing and there are no details: "Some bad guy took her" doesn't take into account any of the actual known facts in this case.

This is not to say I'm 100% convinced that the guys at 5N are responsible for Lauren's disappearance, but that the last people to be seen with her are involved, IMO, is the simplest explanation. There would have to be a whole host of terrible coincidences otherwise, and it still wouldn't explain the POI's behavior, conflicting stories, and refusal to fully cooperate with the investigation. It makes no sense that they would become Persons of Interest in a missing person case, and hire teams of high profile lawyers to cover up drug use.

ETA: The Spierers have also made comments about the extremely unlikely odds that Lauren was abducted. From May 2013:

“We still believe that she may not have left Corey and Mike’s or Jay’s apartment,” Robert Spierer said. “The odds of her being abducted in that slim period are extremely low. That’s not what I think happened.”
http://www.indystar.com/article/201...nts-not-comforted-by-Cleveland-captive-rescue
 
I'm confused about how ZC is being talked about as being part of the story at this point at all. The only mention of her was that she was in her apt. sleeping, and didn't answer the door, right?

It was the witness (bar manager) who described the scene and hearing the audible thud as Lauren's head hit the concrete. From the PI and LE's statements, it seems that they are also going by video surveillance.

Edited to add:




http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

Also, realize the article was written in 2013. ZC hadn't reached out to the news or the Spierers until recently (at the time it was published). You can always say, "Well, how does she know if she was sleeping?" She can probably deduct that they were there at this point because it's well-known CR & LS stopped by there. If you look at what she is actually quoted as saying, she doesn't mention the head thuds or what they (LS & CR) were doing. She says only that she doesn't know what might have happened had they answered the door.

If she were the witness, I think LE would be wondering what was up if she is contacting the Spierers and media claiming to have been asleep now. She talked to media in both phone and email interviews so her changed story would be obvious.
 
2 men sued in Indiana student's disappearance say her parents' subpoenas reach too far

INDIANAPOLIS — Two men who were with a 20-year-old Indiana University student before she vanished in 2011 say her parents' efforts to obtain evidence against them is a "fishing expedition."

Jason Rosenbaum and Corey Rossman say in court documents Lauren Spierer's parents have subpoenaed private cellphone and academic records that have nothing to do with the Greenburgh, New York, native's disappearance.

Court documents say the Spierers want cellphone records spanning 134 days before and after the night their daughter disappeared

Also see:
Men: Requests by missing girl's parents too broad
 
I'm confused about how ZC is being talked about as being part of the story at this point at all. The only mention of her was that she was in her apt. sleeping, and didn't answer the door, right?

It was the witness (bar manager) who described the scene and hearing the audible thud as Lauren's head hit the concrete. From the PI and LE's statements, it seems that they are also going by video surveillance.

Edited to add:



http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

Zoe was at the party at SW before Lauren left with DR to go to JR's.
Also, she inserted herself into the storyline when she decided to give the story to the paper about how poor JR and crew are being scapegoated. Zoe is fair game and could also very well be a POI, we don't know.
 
I'm confused about how ZC is being talked about as being part of the story at this point at all. The only mention of her was that she was in her apt. sleeping, and didn't answer the door, right?

It was the witness (bar manager) who described the scene and hearing the audible thud as Lauren's head hit the concrete. From the PI and LE's statements, it seems that they are also going by video surveillance.

Edited to add:



http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

BBM, "seems" isn't quite good enough, especially from LoHud
 
BBM. I'll post it one more time... He is responding in this quote to a question about Gatto's report of the 3:38 witness, which had been picked up by the media (When it says 'the time reported by other sources', this is what they are referencing). It is clear that the information about the times is based on video surveillance -- Dt. Q. states that they have talked to the witness, and that Lauren does indeed appear on video with a man who they have identified, at that location (i.e. referencing the story that the witness recounted) Only, not at the time reported -- because when they reviewed video an hour later at 3:38 (i.e. the time in Gatto's post), she does not appear on video. Therefore - the incident with Lauren and the man on video was an hour before 3:38 -- Get it?




Every statement from Qualter's required reading a few times though, I found! Nothing LE has said about this case has been very direct, mostly, I think because they were not revealing the identities of the POI early on. This is exactly why I wish they would have clarified or given an update on these statements, because they seem to have left a lot of confusion.
:deadhorse:

Also, what are you referring to when you say "altercation" at 10th and college? there was no report of an altercation there, only at Smallwood.

Unless you are working directly with Capt. Qualters, and I don't think you are, you can't possibly know what he was referring to, because that statement in question can be read several different ways, sorry if you don't agree with my interpretation, but I'm sticking to it.:twocents:

Remember, we are theorizing here. I am theorizing that there was another altercation, it was Lauren and CR trying to get in 10th and College minutes after the SW altercation but they wouldn't let her in. Supposedly, this is when
she smacked her head, and this is not on video. This could very well be what
Qualters is also referring to when he says the witness testimony is not backed up by video. So, the sitting on the steps could be, and them starting to walk up the alley may be, but the head smack isn't, at that time.

Also, LE seems to have several witnesses to different things, apparently people must have admitted seeing Lauren trying to get in, or maybe even people came outside. We don't know how these witnesses were gleaned, but I'm betting they didn't willingly come forward, not all of them.
Why do I feel there was an altercation(s) at 10th and C?I feel like Lauren was not paying a happy social call, nor do I think CR was trying to make Lauren Zoe's "problem," as people have said.
I think Lauren had a problem, not was the problem,and I think she had a problem with someone inside 10th and C. Everyone keeps saying Lauren had to be too intoxicated to do anything, but I'm wondering if that's just a window dressing sort of panacea to say this or that couldn't have happened because Lauren was too high. She was actually going here and there despite being intoxicated, before CR had to carry her.
LE is purposely blurring the lines within the witness circles, IMO and for a good reason. Eventually, one or more of these people is going to contradict themselves.
Or each other. Getting the phone records is going to be a crazy good thing
for this kind of contradicting.
With the records, they'll be able to know who was really up and called whom. Or, who called JR back if he or MB called with a stealth method. Because if they don't have stealth, an unnamed call will still show up on their phone.
Then, once this kind of thing shows up in the civil trial, people may come forward who did know something but were not involved but now are scared they will get dragged into it.
And in this way, I think Akh will agree and also Doubting Thomas, the civil trial could affect a future criminal trial....:jail:
 
I researched the company Imovation Solutions once, and got the impression that nothing much was happening with it now. The limited amount of PR done for the company seems to be two twitter accounts (ImovationS, and Work Day Marathon), with a few photos of a "weekly winner" of promotional items. The first "winner", in November 2012? Mike Beth:

https://mobile.twitter.com/WorkDayMARATHON/status/266594045965520896

Last tweet was in July 2013. Interestingly, the male character in the advergame is called Ray "TheJosenOne" Jones. (Really?)

It seems the company also launched an i-phone app for social networking that fizzled: https://t.co/05qSuGKj6O

On FB, both JR and CR go by first name + middle name. JR appears to have a girlfriend in NYC, and it wouldn't surprise me if he spent most of his time there, where it's easier to be anonymous.

CR's google search results are apparently effective enough that he's not listed as an employee/agent on the website of the realty company he works for, though he is listed as "Corey Evan" as a contact on listings and on yelp reviews.

Bold by me..

This person is from Florida, went to school in Boston and works in NY. Was not part of the IU crowd. She recently, last few months, has become friends on facebook with CR, MB, and DB. My point would be to show that these guys are all still good friends with one another thus the reason for keeping quiet and not outing anyone. My link is facebook.
 
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