I think you're probably right about this. As much as I'd love for this information to be more available/available for the Spierer's, I don't think the civil suit will make that possible. There is a chance that the spierer's lawyer(s) could make a compelling argument for why the records are fair game, I can't think of what that argument could be but I really hope they get the answers they're looking for.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
New Posts
-
Arizona girl, 2, left in car by father on 109-degree day and is found dead
- Latest: imstilla.grandma
- Status
I think you're probably right about this. As much as I'd love for this information to be more available/available for the Spierer's, I don't think the civil suit will make that possible. There is a chance that the spierer's lawyer(s) could make a compelling argument for why the records are fair game, I can't think of what that argument could be but I really hope they get the answers they're looking for.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
QUOTE=AbbeyR;10479112]Link? Her statement was about seeing Lauren do shots at JR's, wasn't it?
Well, you are free to interpret however you want. However, he released this information in a public statement, and what he is saying about the times and video evidence is pretty straighforward, IMO. Plus, the same facts have been made public by numerous sources, including the private investigators and numerous MSM articles (as cited here). Not everything is speculation - we do have some information to go on.
Sorry if my wording was not clear. Both the private investigators and LE have stated that they are basing the timeline, in part, on video surveillance.[/QUOTE]
BBM and do you have a link for that? Abbey, you are good at asking for links, and you often provide links, yet you often get by with not giving links....
@Ixchel - I asked you for a link to clarify information that you stated as factual.
My question was related to the articles that were just posted (See Sammi's post, just above, or mine before that) they do not say anything about her being at Smallwood.
My question was related to the articles that were just posted (See Sammi's post, just above, or mine before that) they do not say anything about her being at Smallwood.
Followup on my post above - I just looked up that info about Corey Rossman's drug charges while living on campus. Found this:
http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto
The 'maintaining a common nuisance' charge was the one I was thinking of.
Random observation, but I also noticed here that while people have said that Corey and Mike stayed in Bloomington and continued on life as usual after Lauren's disappearance, this article from June 2011 states that according to his lawyer, he left for the summer without finishing his class
http://ww.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto
The 'maintaining a common nuisance' charge was the one I was thinking of.
Random observation, but I also noticed here that while people have said that Corey and Mike stayed in Bloomington and continued on life as usual after Lauren's disappearance, this article from June 2011 states that according to his lawyer, he left for the summer without finishing his class
This is OT in terms of the current discussion, but it reminded me of some posts a few pages back, re: who deals drugs. Scroll down to paragraph 11 to the end ... the "sub dealer" stuff is interesting, IMO. Also of interest is the background of the defendants ...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/us/pennsylvania-students-drug-bust/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/us/pennsylvania-students-drug-bust/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
BBM unless you were at both parties, you can't "think" what they were imbibing. I know that HT said they were just drinking wine at the SW party--gosh I just don't believe that!
Sorry you don't like people discussing Zoe, but in my mind, Lauren needed her and she didn't answer the door. She is part of the timeline. Le hasn't named half of the POIs. Do you think that's a mistake on their part? I know Abbey has claimed that they just fell through the cracks and LE has just neglected to let them off the hook through oversight, but I don't think so.
I think LE knows something happened after she left, whether she was carried somewhere, whatever, more people were involved than just the 3 5N POI.
Think of it this way. We know MB, JR, and CR plus JW have been named
POIs. that leaves 6 more. Suppose we add ZO and AB, that leaves 4 more.
So, when could these other 4 have entered the picture?
Just speculating, I would say that mathematical odds point to there has to be a woman (women) in there somewhere in this scenario. The odds that all these people were partying, and there's 10 POIs, and the parties were coed, and no women were involved except Lauren are pretty much off the charts.
When this first happened, and for awhile after, I was convinced it was an abduction because I live here and know how many weirdos hang around that area. I was 25% abduction, 75% POIs. But after viewing the general consensus, I stopped arguing for random and joined the consensus to speculate on POIs. That took a bit of compromise on my part. But there's no way I would join the just-the-3-POIs consensus. They are covering for each other, and they are also covering for someone else. It seems they all have something they could blackmail each other with, namely drug useage and who knows what else, but above all, heaven forbid any scandal that could hurt their precious reputations on the job market and business sector.
All men involved in the first part, until JR's, maybe the women were involved in the second part, after she left JR's.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
nor does it say where the party was.
I get it now, if you form your statement as a question, you don't need a link, as in, wasn't Zoe Camp at Smallwood at a party before then going up to Jay Rosenbaum's party?
Thanks for clearing that up, it will be very useful in the future!:seeya:
No, actually, that's not what I said. Please quote me if you would like to respond to something I've said, since you seem to have difficulty understanding posts.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
So, you think that her "friends" and acquaintances are not coming forward because they're afraid of what people might say? I guess that would be on the short list of reasons. Other reasons might be that they are protecting themselves and others from being prosecuted for...dealing a controlled substance that killed someone; hiding a corpse, causing accidental bodily injury resulting in death, malicious harassment that caused Lauren to leave a safe place to her demise (altercation at SW) as well as duty of care and possibly attempted assault resulting in death, for starters. all MOO.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
You have stated several times something along the lines of LE at first had a loose group of POIs and that they changed and something about maybe people aren't still on the list...is that what you feel or how do you view the original list of approx. 10 POI?
I would appreciate that very much, thanks.
Just to clarify how I feel about the POI list, I think everyone's still on it, and that probably some have been added.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=9512446
ABC covered the drone issue too and the Spierers voiced their frustration. The organization that wants to use the drones has filed a lawsuit against the FAA.
ABC covered the drone issue too and the Spierers voiced their frustration. The organization that wants to use the drones has filed a lawsuit against the FAA.
I had never heard of the drone issue before. How frustrating that such a valuable resource in finding missing people is not able to be used. I hope that bringing attention to this issue makes a difference in the future
RE: the POI list, I'd guess its something like this (in no particular order):
JR
CR
JW
MB
ZO
AB
DB
DR
+it has been mentioned that JR had guestS, so it could be one or two others who were visiting.
I don't think LE would publicly update a list of POIs, so this list has been the same for a long time, and we aren't likely to know if its changed. Other than the white truck LE hasn't openly cleared anyone, IMO they're intentionally not letting much information out.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
LE never released a comprehensive list, and, they said their list changed and evolved. I think it would be a mistake to list as POIs people just because they were discussed by people on websites, that's how rumor becomes fact. For example, I don't recall LE talking about AB, he just got nominated a POI by popular rumor monging. Even with your list, there's at least 2 more, you already have DB on the list, and he's an out of town guest.
No one but LE knows the POI list in it's entirety. I think the list would surprise us. And, I think a few people are on the list because they appeared on her phone after or during the time she went missing. And that's pure speculation.
There has to be a reason why they didn't make it clear who was on the list. that's obvious.
Big speculation--probably one or two ladies on that list.
You're the one who first mentioned AB being a POI, not me.
If JR had Guests, thats DB + at least one more person. That leaves one spot.
LE didn't make the entire list clear because that isn't how law enforcement or the legal system works. As a member of this forum, and as a person who has been following this case since a day or two after Lauren disappeared, I wish they shared information more freely with people like us. The fact is, they don't. Things they share are accessible to the POIs and to anyone else involved. They are not going to list all the persons of interest.
LE in this case has been really clear in terms of how forthcoming they are. They don't release information. This isn't a case where they update us every so often. They're not asking for super public help. IMO thats been really clear.
You made mention of the POI list, so I'm not sure why you seem to think that my version is useless. JR, MB, CR are the last people to see Lauren alive. They are persons of interest, I promise you. JW is her boyfriend, he is a person of interest right off the bat. DR had been with her earlier that night, AB and ZO had found items of hers and had issues with CR that night. DB, and whoever else JR had staying with him, were apparently people physically staying at the location where lauren was last seen. if they were present when Lauren arrived at JR's and have since completely disappeared from the narrative provided by Cory, Jason and Mike, there's damn good reason for suspecting them, both on our part and on LE's.
You've mentioned multiple theories where females figure heavily into your theory, but the fact is that Lauren wasn't known to be with (or fighting with) any women/girls on that night. Maybe Zoe was awake that night and just didn't want to let people into her apartment. Maybe she was asleep. I still think its a pretty big leap to assume that Zoe had somehow managed to steal lauren's phone (when there's no evidence she was at the bar where lauren left her phone) or was informing JW, when there's nothing to connect them.
I think its much more realistic to assume that the people who were with Lauren in the hours before she went missing, in the hours when she was known to be in a bad state, and whose stories have changed and contradict each other, were responsible than it is to theorize about a fight/argument/disagreement that we have absolutely zero evidence, zero rumors to support led to Lauren's disappearance and/or death.
Thanks imkeylime (every time I type your name, I want pie lol!) - was just coming on to post this myself, I immediately thought of the 5N peeps when this story broke, it's uncanny...
doubtingthomas
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
- Messages
- 212
- Reaction score
- -2
So if there's damn good reason for suspecting BD just because he was staying at JR's then there's damn good reason for suspecting ZC. She was at the party also claiming she saw LS doing shots. So if we are going to put people on the POI list because of association then HT should be on this list because she was JR's mouthpiece the next day. Matter of fact if she had not mentioned DB we probably wouldn't even be talking about him. We are only talking about ZC because she decided to talk to the media to tell her side of the story. So, IMO if your going to put people on the list by association then you have to put everyone that had any association with LS that night on the list, male or female.
From literally every mainstream media publication that mentions DB it says that he was staying with JR. ZC might have done shots with Lauren earlier in the evening, but there's nothing saying that she actually saw lauren later that night. HT was lauren's roommate, and while I do think she seems a little off, again, there has been nothing linking her to lauren that night. DB was physically staying at DB's residence. I'm not sure how the difference isn't clear... Were ZC and HT sleeping at JR's? If lauren was there late at night, and JR, DB's host, was apparently done partying that night and at home, wouldn't DB be there as well? We've heard absolutely nothing about where DB was that night until he went for brunch.
Unless you have another source for your comment about ZC, all I've read about her commenting in mainstream media is her saying that she did not hear Lauren buzzing to get into her house, and she doesn't know what would have happened if she had heard it and let lauren in. And that was also sometime after Lauren disappeared, not the next day or the next month. Unless I'm missing a link, there is nothing at all to link lauren to zc later that night other than lauren and CR (which some people seem to be conveniently forgetting) knocked on her door. We do have evidence linking her to multiple other people later that night, so I'm not sure what the fixation with ZC is.
Association is one thing, physically staying at the residence where Lauren was last seen is another matter. One person claims she saw lauren drinking much earlier that evening, and then lauren and cory tried and failed to buzz into her building (and according to ixchel they couldn't have even contacted ZC's apartment from outside), and three other people claim to have been physically with lauren after that.
I think you mean AA and his friend?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/1...-offer-clues-in-case-missing-indiana-student/
I think that is the closest anyone is going to get with an official "list" and only 4 have been named publicly AFAIK, and the number "10" is pretty misleading since Qualters himself said it isn't a static number.
My comments RE: ZC were meant only to point out that she came forward and talked and that should be encouraged. Like I said though, she did talk to the media and hopefully she was prepared for people insinuating her involvement, despite the fact that there is nothing to suggest her involvement. I agree with Holly though - there is zero evidence known supporting her involvement and I have never heard rumors regarding her involvement. The only known dispute that night was between CR and ZO with an "O."
I'm with you on that sentiment. I think the simplest answer is that at least one of the last three known people to see her are involved or some combination of the three and it's been pure luck that he/they have gotten away with it so long, or a stranger abduction. The more people involved, the more conspiracy-ish and less likely, IMO. Loose lips and all that.
- Status