IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[Vidocq]

A bit of logic I might have left out of my original expounding of my thoughts on the case: why would MB call JR on the phone? If he wants to know if his next door neighbor is up, wouldn't he just walk next door and knock? That's what leads me to think JR wasn't at home when MB called him. I think MB found her missing (like he told his neighbor VS), so he called JR, because he expected him to be in a position to be on the look out for her, as she walked back to SW: he expected him to be at Tenth & College.

 

[doubtingthomas]

A bit of logic I might have left out of my original expounding of my thoughts on the case: why would MB call JR on the phone? If he wants to know if his next door neighbor is up, wouldn't he just walk next door and knock? That's what leads me to think JR wasn't at home when MB called him. I think MB found her missing (like he told his neighbor VS), so he called JR, because he expected him to be in a position to be on the look out for her, as she walked back to SW: he expected him to be at Tenth & College.

Interesting point. Hadn't thought about the possibility of JR not being home. Always assumed he was at 5N but wondered why MB called instead of just going over. Maybe this is why CR was stopping by ZC's place. Maybe he knew LS was in trouble and JR was at ZC's.

 

[doubtingthomas]

I went back to look at the map Btown posted (thanks again Btown) to look at the route CR/LS took. According to the blue line it looks like they left SW, went west on 9th street to the ally. Then up the ally, cross over 10th street to the gravel lot, then on to 5N. The PI's say they went to 10th & College and knocked on ZC's door. So would they have gone down 10th street to the corner of 10th & College, then back down 10th street to the ally, then up the ally? Or would they go down the ally to the gravel lot, turn right behind 10th & College, down the ally to the NE corner of 10th & College, then back up the ally to the gravel lot? Seems they would have been on camera multiple times. Just trying to grasp the route they would have taken and the time involved to last be seen at 2:51 on camera.

 

[Vidocq]

The "alley" in question, where the cameras are, is half a block long: it's just the space between Tenth & College Apartments (on the east) and College Village Apartment (on the west). The cameras on "the alley", as far as I can tell, from walking it, are just the cameras on the corners of that side of Tenth & College Apartments. The "alley" goes from 10th Street (between Morton and College) to halfway up that block, then (at the time), there would be the gravel lot on your left, if you're coming out of the alley going north. Then, past the gravel lot is 5N. So, basically you've got a block bordered by Morton on the West, College on the East, 11th Street on the North, and 10th Street on the south. Tenth & College Apartments occupies the SE corner of this block, College Village Apartments occupies the SW corner, and the gravel lot and 5N occupies the NW corner. (The alley is just the space between T&C and CVA, running halfway up this block.) It's surprising how close T&C is to 5N when you actually walk it.

The thing is: it seems to me there is no access to T&C, from the alley. There's a parking garage entrance facing 10th Street (the south side of the building), located just to the right of the entrance to the alley. And there's the main entrance, facing College. But the North and West (alley side) don't seem to have a way in (based on my own nervous inspection, as I walked around, hoping security wasn't coming to get me). Initially, I pictured them going in the garage entrance on 10th street, going up to ZC's, coming right back down, and then heading up the alley, to exit the alley for the gravel lot, at 2:51. Now, however, as I've been saying, it seems to me that there wasn't time for them to walk from SW at 2:42 to get to the garage entrance, walk up to ZC's and back, and then enter the alley by 2:48. (And there certainly wasn't time for them to hang out on some step and be witnessed by a bar manager with time dyslexia, whatever PIs and LE says. In my humble opinion.)

So, now I'm thinking they left SW, got to the entrance of *the* alley, either by walking up college and turning left, or by walking up another "alley" from SW (it was more of just a path back then that goes up the middle of the block between 9th and 10th --you could do that back then, but there's yet another apartment building there now, as there also is now in the gravel lot), then went up *the* alley (I now tend to believe), got on camera for the last time, then turned right, walked along the north side of the T&C building, went in the front of T&C, unsuccessfully visited ZC, came back out, had a break near the gravel lot, Lauren lost her keys/wallet (due to a struggle?), and they made it to 5N, around 3. As I say, this version (which seems like the version to account for the times best) brings the conclusion that the T&C interior and College Ave-side cameras weren't working very well, since they don't seem to have recorded the ZC visit. (If the PIs are basing their knowledge of the visit on camera evidence, then my scenario is wrong.)

On last thing: when I tried snooping around inside T&C, last year, I noticed you need a card key to get onto a floor, or to go up in the elevator from the garage. So, if that was the case back then, then CR or LS would have needed a T&C card key to be able to ring ZC's bell.

 

[monkey222]

It certainly does make sense that MB would walk to JWs apt vs call, if he knew JR was there and awake. In an urgent situation the most direct approach is to walk next door.

 

[Ixchel13]

I'm sorry my post wasn't more clear. I thought it was understood that the timeline had been revised. My intent was to show that at one point, BPD did state 3:15-3:30 was the time LS was on video exiting the alley, as there seemed to be a question about that.

FWIW, I found these partial transcripts in my old notes. It will help to explain (somewhat) the timeline confusion and the revisions.

(R=Reporter; Q=Qualters)

JUNE 12, 2013 AUDIO TAPE 6 (between the one-third and halfway mark of the tape)

R: What is the last time and the last location that a video camera, through independent observation...a videocamera that you know Lauren was?

Q: I believe that would be in the area of 3:15-3:30

R: And that would be where?

Q: That would be somewhere north of 10th St?

R: In those alleys back there?

Q: Somewhere north of 10th St

R: And that would be because you see her on a camera?

Q: Yes

R: Walking south to north?

Q: No

R: Okay, was she walking in a certain direction, and did she have anybody with her?

Q: I'm not going to get into the specifics about what we've seen at this point. We've talked about the video that we've received, and we're going to maintain custody of that video, and not release any specific details about it.

Police locate keys of missing IU student Lauren Spierer

----------------------------------------------------------

JUNE 16, 2011 AUDIO TAPE 10 (a little shy of the halfway point)

R: What seems to be missing here is the video that shows her from 3:15-3:30.

Q: Well, again I think that was a preliminary figure given, and these are more of the revised times.

R: So where on there would that video be?

Q: That video would probably be down in here around point No. 4

R: So now we're saying that video was closer to 2:51 am, rather than 3:15-3:30

Q: I think that we have determined through the video that we're looking at a little bit prior to 3:00 am, whereas before I think that initial time was listed as 3:15... I know that we've used that figure 3:-15-3:30...now that we've had a chance to analyze and review the video...I think we're far more comfortable with this.

Q: Now the only other thing I can say would be that, keeping in mind that if we at the time released that information, there may be some variance based on...we're relying on these times as they were listed by the businesses. So, maybe we were using different figures of time but now that we've got some documentation we're more comfortable with these figures, again, recognizing that thereis going to be some variance.

R: Yeah, a few minutes, but we're talking about 2:51 is now the estimated time, as opposed to, let's say, 3:15-3:30...

Q: So we're talking about a 20 minute time period, but you've got to keep in mind...the locations and documentation are essentially the same. There's just been some variation in the time that we originally released.

Police release updated timeline, search headquarters changed

------------------------------------------------------------------
Links to audio recordings of 15 BPD press briefs can be found on this page.

http://idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81917

Bessie's post was mentioned, so, I went back to read it.^^

The only info Qualters gives up, IMO, is :
* they have her on video within 20 min of 2:51 a.m., doesn't really say which way.
*she was not walking south to north in the video
*she was somewhere north of 10th St.

 

[Ixchel13]

How did you read it then?

I'm assuming the same way I did - when it was available on lohud, you read it then lol.

I have a quote from it that is from elsewhere on the web and it has been quoted several times on this forum as well.




I assume the quote is on the second page because this excerpt didn't include it, but regardless, you can see that the article did include that when it was available per my original link:
https://www.google.com/search?q=“Co...rome..69i57.1931j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Your point on ZC's possible agenda has been discussed elsewhere and wasn't really relevant at that point in the discussion. It may or may not be true, but I don't think it says much as to whether or not CR actually introduced LS as someone he had just met to a friend of his, which was the only point I was making in quoting that post.

ETA: Can you please link to the story where ZC is describing JR being torn up, or copy the relevant portion from a saved copy from this particular article, if that is where it is from? I don't recall that portion and would be interested in reading it.

I'm glad we are getting this whole ZC thing out in the open. If, in her own words, she can shed light on what happened before and after Lauren disappeared, that's quite a bit involved. We need to find the rest of the story, because she hasn't gotten to the scapegoated part, which is at the beginning of your quote. iirc, she discusses JR crying to her in regret. iirc, she also wonders what would be different if she had answered her door. Rest of story, where are you? IMO, she could be a POI. Has to be a woman in there somewhere, JMO

 

[Ixchel13]

I went back to look at the map Btown posted (thanks again Btown) to look at the route CR/LS took. According to the blue line it looks like they left SW, went west on 9th street to the ally. Then up the ally, cross over 10th street to the gravel lot, then on to 5N. The PI's say they went to 10th & College and knocked on ZC's door. So would they have gone down 10th street to the corner of 10th & College, then back down 10th street to the ally, then up the ally? Or would they go down the ally to the gravel lot, turn right behind 10th & College, down the ally to the NE corner of 10th & College, then back up the ally to the gravel lot? Seems they would have been on camera multiple times. Just trying to grasp the route they would have taken and the time involved to last be seen at 2:51 on camera.

good one. to me, and I worked right there, and used that alley, so I have a good idea, if they were in fact at the front stairs, to get to JRs, it would be much easier to not even go back down the stairs, as the PIs say the video shows,
but to continue north up the arcade, go down the NE stairs, up the sidewalk to the corner, and turn left on 11th and walk to JR's about 5 townhomes down.
But, the other way also makes sense, since JR lives on the NW corner of
5N, to keep out of LE vision,( if they had only been seen, they would have been immediately picked up)they took the alley, it cuts the complex in half,
between 10th and C and 10th and V ,and then they could turn left after emerging, going northwest through the gravel lot, or turning sharp left and going down what used to be an alley, then you would hit the sidewalk right by the first townhome of 10th and Villages putting them on the northwest side of the two sister complexes, no cameras, and then they would turn right go 50 feet and JR's is right there. but if any drama happened around that NW corner or down by 10 and V , it would be a great diversion tactic to have Lauren thought to have turned right towards the NE. JMO speculation

 

[Ixchel13]

I went back to look at the map Btown posted (thanks again Btown) to look at the route CR/LS took. According to the blue line it looks like they left SW, went west on 9th street to the ally. Then up the ally, cross over 10th street to the gravel lot, then on to 5N. The PI's say they went to 10th & College and knocked on ZC's door. So would they have gone down 10th street to the corner of 10th & College, then back down 10th street to the ally, then up the ally? Or would they go down the ally to the gravel lot, turn right behind 10th & College, down the ally to the NE corner of 10th & College, then back up the ally to the gravel lot? Seems they would have been on camera multiple times. Just trying to grasp the route they would have taken and the time involved to last be seen at 2:51 on camera.

good one. to me, and I worked right there, and used that alley, so I have a good idea, if they were in fact at the front stairs, to get to JRs, it would be much easier to not even go back down the stairs, as the PIs say the video shows,
but to continue north up the arcade, go down the NE stairs, up the sidewalk to the corner, and turn left on 11th and walk to JR's about 5 townhomes down.
But, the other way also makes sense, since JR lives on the NW corner of
5N, to keep out of LE vision,( if they had only been seen, they would have been immediately picked up)they took the alley, it cuts the complex in half,
between 10th and C and 10th and V ,and then they could turn left after emerging, going northwest through the gravel lot, or turning sharp left and going down what used to be an alley, then you would hit the sidewalk right by the first townhome of 10th and Villages putting them on the northwest side of the two sister complexes, no cameras, and then they would turn right go 50 feet and JR's is right there. but if any drama happened around that NW corner or down by 10 and V , it would be a great diversion tactic to have Lauren thought to have turned right towards the NE. JMO speculation

 

[Ixchel13]

The "alley" in question, where the cameras are, is half a block long: it's just the space between Tenth & College Apartments (on the east) and College Village Apartment (on the west). The cameras on "the alley", as far as I can tell, from walking it, are just the cameras on the corners of that side of Tenth & College Apartments. The "alley" goes from 10th Street (between Morton and College) to halfway up that block, then (at the time), there would be the gravel lot on your left, if you're coming out of the alley going north. Then, past the gravel lot is 5N. So, basically you've got a block bordered by Morton on the West, College on the East, 11th Street on the North, and 10th Street on the south. Tenth & College Apartments occupies the SE corner of this block, College Village Apartments occupies the SW corner, and the gravel lot and 5N occupies the NW corner. (The alley is just the space between T&C and CVA, running halfway up this block.) It's surprising how close T&C is to 5N when you actually walk it.

The thing is: it seems to me there is no access to T&C, from the alley. There's a parking garage entrance facing 10th Street (the south side of the building), located just to the right of the entrance to the alley. And there's the main entrance, facing College. But the North and West (alley side) don't seem to have a way in (based on my own nervous inspection, as I walked around, hoping security wasn't coming to get me). Initially, I pictured them going in the garage entrance on 10th street, going up to ZC's, coming right back down, and then heading up the alley, to exit the alley for the gravel lot, at 2:51. Now, however, as I've been saying, it seems to me that there wasn't time for them to walk from SW at 2:42 to get to the garage entrance, walk up to ZC's and back, and then enter the alley by 2:48. (And there certainly wasn't time for them to hang out on some step and be witnessed by a bar manager with time dyslexia, whatever PIs and LE says. In my humble opinion.)

So, now I'm thinking they left SW, got to the entrance of *the* alley, either by walking up college and turning left, or by walking up another "alley" from SW (it was more of just a path back then that goes up the middle of the block between 9th and 10th --you could do that back then, but there's yet another apartment building there now, as there also is now in the gravel lot), then went up *the* alley (I now tend to believe), got on camera for the last time, then turned right, walked along the north side of the T&C building, went in the front of T&C, unsuccessfully visited ZC, came back out, had a break near the gravel lot, Lauren lost her keys/wallet (due to a struggle?), and they made it to 5N, around 3. As I say, this version (which seems like the version to account for the times best) brings the conclusion that the T&C interior and College Ave-side cameras weren't working very well, since they don't seem to have recorded the ZC visit. (If the PIs are basing their knowledge of the visit on camera evidence, then my scenario is wrong.)

On last thing: when I tried snooping around inside T&C, last year, I noticed you need a card key to get onto a floor, or to go up in the elevator from the garage. So, if that was the case back then, then CR or LS would have needed a T&C card key to be able to ring ZC's bell.

I agree with everything you say here. what if when they reached the gravel lot, they turned left towards 10 and c Villages? they would be headed towards the west, no cameras.

 

[Ixchel13]

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...r-missing-iu-student-20110606,0,6971239.story

link^

I was just on<modsnip>, pg.2 of Lauren's missing page, and someone posted that a story from Fox News claims that Lauren's ID was found in her apt and turned over to LE by her roommate. doesn't say which roommate.

If true, then either Lauren made it back to her apt. w. CR before the altercation,
or the ID made it back somehow.

the link above just goes back 31 stories, not enough to pull up the one they're talking about.
do we have to pay for archived stories?

the post from SM was in June of 2011. How did even the rumor of the ID being found at her apt
get lost from our scenarios?

It's maybe where the idea that she was just "stopping by" her apt
instead of going home got started. It could be true, or someone could have planted the ID back at the apt. to make it seem so.

Or, she could have made it back, was there with CR, but something or someone caused them to leave abruptly.

 

[AbbeyR]

Bessie's post was mentioned, so, I went back to read it.^^

The only info Qualters gives up, IMO, is :
* they have her on video within 20 min of 2:51 a.m., doesn't really say which way.

No, he's referring to a 20 minute difference from the original time that was revised, and he's specific about it being prior to 3 am:

I think that we have determined through the video that we're looking at a little bit prior to 3:00 am, whereas before I think that initial time was listed as 3:15...

 

[AbbeyR]

http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...r-missing-iu-student-20110606,0,6971239.story

link^

I was just on <modsnip> pg.2 of Lauren's missing page, and someone posted that a story from Fox News claims that Lauren's ID was found in her apt and turned over to LE by her roommate. doesn't say which roommate.

It's not clear what ID you are talking about and your link doesn't work. Could you please provide the quote and correct link? TIA

 

[Ixchel13]

It's not clear what ID you are talking about and your link doesn't work. Could you please provide the quote and correct link? TIA

Bessie, if you are reading this, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste the entire post, but I didn't know what else to do.

AbbeyR, I'm not sure which ID they're talking about, but why would she turn over a normal ID to LE? The poster snipped it from Fox, and pasted that portion to the board.

I wish someone had the missing part to ZC's story saved. I tried for over an hour, and pulled up that story from various websites, but LoHud has the part about why she thinks they were scapegoated under lock and key!

Maybe it's not originally from LoHud, and in another story, but I also remember the first part of it so I doubt it. Anyway, here's the exerpt from the story,
and the by line is there, so FWIW, the story does exist and it was reported in MSM that her roommate gave the ID to police. People on this board have wondered where LE got the ID, some were saying it might have been found on the ground, etc and if she had it at JR's. Two questions that take on weight if the roommate gave it to LE.

hope that answers your questions.





http://www.fox59.com/news/bloomingt...r-missing-iu-student-20110606,0,6971239.story

Foul play suspected in disappearance of IU student Lauren Spierer
Family, friends and even strangers joined in the search Monday morning for missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer. The 20-year-old was last seen early Friday morning.

By Edward Moody Fox59

6:22 p.m. EDT, June 6, 2011
Bloomington, Ind.&#8212;
<modsnip>

Family, friends and even strangers joined in the search Monday morning for Spierer. The 20-year-old was last seen early Friday morning, walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street towards her apartment building at Smallwood, which is located near 8th and College.

Spierer's cell phone and shoes were recovered from Kilroy's, a local bar in Bloomington where they have a sand pit (hence the reason she may not have been wearing shoes). Her ID was found at her apartment and her roommate turned it over to police.

::snipping2::

<mod add> http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...r-missing-iu-student-20110606,0,3224123.story

 

[Vidocq]

I agree with everything you say here. what if when they reached the gravel lot, they turned left towards 10 and c Villages? they would be headed towards the west, no cameras.

In some reports, I remember Lauren's key and wrist wallet thing (is that what is was?) reported as being found next to a "railing". When I first walked down the alley (S to N) I noticed around the corner to the west (toward the gravel lot, on the back side of College Village) sort of a shallow alcove in the wall, with a railing in front of it. I assume that's the railing. It struck me at the time, that that might be a place he could have dragged her aside, been out of the way of cameras, and tried some funny business, thereby dislodging her wallet and key(s?). Purely speculation, but it does answer another question: here you have a guy who's behaving like he's desperate to get this intoxicated girl alone, yet, by the time he arrives home (according to MB) he's ready to throw up and go to bed? Could his weak stomach and sudden disinterest in Lauren upon arriving home signify that something untoward had just happened on the way there? Again, just speculating.

Yesterday, I walked past T&C, on the College Ave. side. I didn't linger, for fear of appearing suspicious, but I couldn't see any cameras pointed at College Ave, that would have been able to see someone simply walking by. The only cameras I noticed were one pointed down the alley from the front (the famous west side alley), one pointed down the alley from the back of the alley, one pointed down the south side of the building from the front of the alley, and one pointed down the north side of the building from the back of the alley. But none of these cameras seemed angled properly to see all the way to the sidewalk on College.

The only cameras I noticed on the front (College side) facade, just from walking by, were two, inside what is being called the "arcade": the raised up area, at the top of steps, that makes up the front facade, that houses businesses, looks like. (You have to walk up the steps and through an opening in the middle of the arcade to get to the interior courtyard, where access to the stairs going up to rooms is located.) The two cameras on the facade seem to be pointed in, looking at the entrances of the businesses, not out to the sidewalk, or the steps. From what I could see. (I'll go back again and look from in the arcade area, later.)

One interesting fact I was reminded of while there, right across College from T&C, right there is a law firm with a camera on it. But the camera (now anyway) seems to be pointed straight down, at the entrance, but is mounted so high up, that if turned, it could, I would think, easily see across College to the T&C sidewalk. And, it happens to be the law firm of Carl Salzman, attorney for CR. Ironic, somehow. Another interesting, if probably irrelevant fact: Carl Salzman was the Monroe County Prosecutor, when Jill Behrman went missing, three days shy of exactly 11 years before Lauren (May 31st, 2000): Bloomington's last nationally famous disappearance of a young college student.

 

[bessie]

Bessie, if you are reading this, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to paste the entire post, but I didn't know what else to do.

<rsbm>


<mod add> http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/...r-missing-iu-student-20110606,0,3224123.story

You can't c&p the entire article, Ixchel. Only 10%. And I added a working link to your post.

I realize there is a problem with links that no longer work. I found a working one by snipping a sentence and pasting it into a google search. That often works. If not, sometimes you can find a cached version in google. And don't forget to check the media thread.

IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 * Media Links* - Page 8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community




ETA: The primate site is banned here. If you try to link to it, the url will look like this www-*******-com. And no link, no post.

^^*This message is a reminder for everyone. Thanks.^^

 

[Ros]

In the transcript SC, the reporter, says, after they leave Tenth & College,

"She has another seat. She sits down for about a minute. But at that point she &#8211; she leaves her keys &#8211; she drops her keys and an ID card and Corey helped her up the street to his apartment."

I don't know if that's based on a witness, or just extrapolated from the fact that her keys were found around there, but it sounds to me like this is all post-last-alley-footage, at 2:51. Again, there just wasn't time for all of this to happen before 2:51, since they left SW at 2:42, and they entered the alley at 2:48, I believe.

JR later claimed that she had her Smallwood keycard and fake ID card with her when she was at 5N later.

See post by Jacobite 26 Dec 2013 below and this lohud article:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223949&page=31

So was it a fake ID card found there or her real ID card? Or did she need two fake ID cards to get into Kilroy's?

And was her real ID the one found at her apartment?

 

[imkeylime]

JR later claimed that she had her Smallwood keycard and fake ID card with her when she was at 5N later.

See post by Jacobite 26 Dec 2013 below and this lohud article:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223949&page=31

So was it a fake ID card found there or her real ID card? Or did she need two fake ID cards to get into Kilroy's?

And was her real ID the one found at her apartment?

Trying to think from the perspective of a 20-year-old young woman, it might seem logical for someone to leave her real ID at home when going to a bar where she'd be using a fake one. There would be less room for error, i.e., pulling out the wrong ID. JMO.

I do wonder how her ID (fake or otherwise) got to JR's, as her wristlet allegedly didn't. Her attire for the night didn't look like it had pockets, apart from the jacket (draped over her arm in photo where she's leaving SW) that's never discussed or seemingly accounted for.

I suppose CR could have been carrying them in a pocket ... but why?

 

[AbbeyR]

JR later claimed that she had her Smallwood keycard and fake ID card with her when she was at 5N later.

See post by Jacobite 26 Dec 2013 below and this lohud article:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223949&page=31

So was it a fake ID card found there or her real ID card? Or did she need two fake ID cards to get into Kilroy's?

And was her real ID the one found at her apartment?

Okay, here's what I understand - someone correct me if I'm wrong:

- She dropped her student ID card in the alley along with her keys - (Lohud p.4) This was found with her wristlet by someone who lived nearby and put on the railing:

She later would drop her keys and student ID card before the two crossed a rocky lot to his apartment...

- Jay claims Lauren had Fake ID and a SW key card at his place (LoHud p.5):

Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said.

(It's not clear if this ID was ever found. There was a rumor in an anonymous comment online that claimed it was found on the street, but the information about the ID was incorrect, so it doesn't seem very reliable. Kilroy's was also fined because of this ID, but unclear whether this is because the fake ID was found, whether the bar scans ID, or other...)

- Lauren's roommates turned in her ID to police (Link above)

Her ID was found at her apartment and her roommate turned it over to police.

I would assume this would be her actual ID. I've noticed this is often reported in missing person cases, I would guess because it is used to file a missing person report and/or because leaving ID behind is an indication that the person didn't run away or leave of their own free will.

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

 

[AbbeyR]

In some reports, I remember Lauren's key and wrist wallet thing (is that what is was?) reported as being found next to a "railing". When I first walked down the alley (S to N) I noticed around the corner to the west (toward the gravel lot, on the back side of College Village) sort of a shallow alcove in the wall, with a railing in front of it. I assume that's the railing. It struck me at the time, that that might be a place he could have dragged her aside, been out of the way of cameras, and tried some funny business, thereby dislodging her wallet and key(s?). Purely speculation, but it does answer another question: here you have a guy who's behaving like he's desperate to get this intoxicated girl alone, yet, by the time he arrives home (according to MB) he's ready to throw up and go to bed? Could his weak stomach and sudden disinterest in Lauren upon arriving home signify that something untoward had just happened on the way there? Again, just speculating.

Yesterday, I walked past T&C, on the College Ave. side. I didn't linger, for fear of appearing suspicious, but I couldn't see any cameras pointed at College Ave, that would have been able to see someone simply walking by. The only cameras I noticed were one pointed down the alley from the front (the famous west side alley), one pointed down the alley from the back of the alley, one pointed down the south side of the building from the front of the alley, and one pointed down the north side of the building from the back of the alley. But none of these cameras seemed angled properly to see all the way to the sidewalk on College.

The only cameras I noticed on the front (College side) facade, just from walking by, were two, inside what is being called the "arcade": the raised up area, at the top of steps, that makes up the front facade, that houses businesses, looks like. (You have to walk up the steps and through an opening in the middle of the arcade to get to the interior courtyard, where access to the stairs going up to rooms is located.) The two cameras on the facade seem to be pointed in, looking at the entrances of the businesses, not out to the sidewalk, or the steps. From what I could see. (I'll go back again and look from in the arcade area, later.)

One interesting fact I was reminded of while there, right across College from T&C, right there is a law firm with a camera on it. But the camera (now anyway) seems to be pointed straight down, at the entrance, but is mounted so high up, that if turned, it could, I would think, easily see across College to the T&C sidewalk. And, it happens to be the law firm of Carl Salzman, attorney for CR. Ironic, somehow. Another interesting, if probably irrelevant fact: Carl Salzman was the Monroe County Prosecutor, when Jill Behrman went missing, three days shy of exactly 11 years before Lauren (May 31st, 2000): Bloomington's last nationally famous disappearance of a young college student.

Hi Vidocq - I think I may have posted the link earlier, but have you checked out Btown's posts? He has photos and descriptions of the cameras and the area you describe. There's some good ones here (See discussion starting post #433): IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30 - Page 18 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

In post #445, there are photos and descriptions of the cameras around the stairs, and Btown says that while there are no cameras pointed directly at the stairs, there is a camera on the NE corner, pointed south, that could have captured Lauren on video if she was near the top of the stairs.

If these are the stairs described in the LoHud video (I'm not clear on this), they do mention that she was sitting on the top step:

So they headed out together, they walked up the street and sat down along the way on a staircase.

... And that's where we have a female witness who was leaving, uh, visiting a boy. She's not a college student, she's a little bit older. And she observed the young girl, which we now know to be Lauren, to tip over, while she was sitting on the top step, and hit her head on the concrete. And the boy was sitting a step or two below her.

Also, the LoHud article linked to in my last post also has a quote about Salzmann's camera (p.5):

There is no camera that would have captured her leaving [5 N]. If she turned onto College, she would have had to walk 100 yards until she passed a working surveillance camera. Coincidentally, the camera, which did not capture an image of her walking home, is attached to the law offices of Carl Salzmann, who was retained by Rossman a couple days after Spierer&#8217;s disappearance.