IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[imkeylime]

... So JW's dad is saying JW told him, via text, that LS was staying home and going to sleep. HT is saying that JW was planning on getting together with LS that night. So if LS told him she was staying home and going to sleep why would he think they were getting together later?

I first thought that LS might have left her phone at the bar because she was to intoxicated to remember it. But what if, since the game ended at 12:30 and JW didn't go to sleep until 2:30, he was texting her for two hours and CR thought she was being bothered by JW's texting and took her phone away from her. They both left forgetting about the phone on the bar. Just my opinion thinking out loud.

I personally think LS left her cell because she didn't remember it, given her description at SW not that much later. But it's also possible that she put it down somewhere (sand volleball court?) because she didn't feel like being tied to it that night. There's no way to really determine her mindset that night, IMO, i.e., did she or didn't she want to be in contact with JW. But if she needed a little space (and don't we all sometime?), maybe that was one way of getting it.

Or, as you speculate, CR could have stepped in and done it for her. But I don't think JW even needed to have been bothering her. She might have just not wanted to go home early but not wanted to explain so. JMO.

 

[akh]

Just days after the disappearance, Wolff and his father barged into Rossman and Beth’s apartment, investigators learned.

Jesse Wolff was confrontational, and Beth said he broke up a potential fight.

“I hope you rot in jail!” Wolff is said to have shouted as he left.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120603/NEWS02/306030045/www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/

What is it that JW knows to assume that CR has done something criminally wrong to LS to think he is going to end up in jail?

There's a poster or two here that is very very certain of 5N's guilt and that is off of the same type of things that JW would've soon learned. So if a random poster or two can be convinced of 5N's guilt then certainly someone like JW in the middle of things could be convinced from the same type information. Plus, JW would know that he himself is not involved (if that is the case) which would really tip the scales as far as odds go to who then was the most likely suspect(s). Plus, he could simply believe at the least if he (JW) had been with her instead of CR then none of this would've happened. So that could, emotionally, stack a lot of blame CR's way even if CR's part of the story is 100% true. Let alone if it's all a lie.

OTOH, if JW was involved then he'd have to know 5N would make great scapegoats and want to deflect attention from himself and towards the the next best possible suspects. So there's that...

 

[AbbeyR]

I don't think JW's reaction to CR is surprising. CR was last seen with Lauren, buying her drinks and then dragging her home half conscious. The last people who saw them together said he was bothering her and acting aggressively and acted belligerent when told he should take her apartment. When she didn't get home the next morning, Corey claimed he had 'amnesia' and the stories coming from him, MB and JR didn't add up.

JW may or may not have known more than we know at this point, but he's certainly not the only one to place suspicion on the guys at 5 N. The Spierers have also repeatedly said that they appear to be withholding information, and that they suspect that Lauren may have never left there alive.

The Spierers, who will mark the third anniversary since their daughter's disappearance Tuesday, continue to suspect Beth and two friends had something to do with it, and that the 20-year-old Indiana University student may never have left their townhouse complex alive after she arrived there, unsteady and with bruising to her face, following a night of heavy partying.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/loca...uggle/9837123/

That said, I've never heard them, or anyone here, state that anyone is without a doubt "guilty". We don't know what happened to Lauren, so what can we say anyone is 'guilty' of? What people have said, is that based on what we know so far, all evidence stops at 5 N. That's just the truth - there's no evidence she walked away from there that morning. There are plenty of theories that all of us have considered, and the possibility of other people or a stranger being involved in Lauren's disappearance can't be ruled out. At the same time, if you take away all of the theories that are based only on hypothetical situations or imagining potential motives, we are still left with the evidence and unresolved questions about what happened when Lauren was taken back to 5 N.

 

[AbbeyR]

"Hadar Tamir, Spierer's roommate at Smallwood Plaza apartments, on Monday filled in more details of that morning, saying Spierer was hanging out with her until 12:30 a.m., then went with another Smallwood resident, David Rohn, to friend Jay Rosenbaum's apartment up the street.
Spierer, Rohn and Rosenbaum watched a basketball game at Rosenbaum's, said Tamir, who is friends with Rohn and Rosenbaum. They were joined there by Corey Rossman, who lives two doors down, she said. Tamir said Mike Beth, Rossman's roommate, was also there.
A while later, Rossman and Spierer went to a bar, Tamir said, and Rohn returned to Smallwood."

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...r-activities-before-vanishingodyssey=nav|head

^^found this on another forum that rhymes with "lock forum"
for some reason, when we think of the guy they called, the mystery guy, that Lauren had been watching the game with earlier, we think they were calling SW. But this article claims Lauren was watching the game at Jay's. But, David Rohn is seen on camera returning right after walking Lauren up there. So, right here is an example of her friends stories not matching up, not just the POIs. Plus, game was over by 12:30.

BBM. HT wasn't at JR's - in that interview, she was relaying the conversation she had with JR. It's the same interview where she describes how he told her about the 'stumble test' before Lauren left. So it's still the POIs stories that we are talking about.

In a later article, the information about calling the guy who was watching the game at Smallwood with Lauren also came from JR (he said Lauren made the calls):

In the half-hour before she purportedly left, two calls were placed from Rosenbaum’s phone. Rosenbaum said Spierer placed both calls, one to Rohn and another to a male friend who also was with her earlier that night watching basketball at Smallwood.

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use (p5)

In the lawsuit docs (see media thread), it is stated that MB witnessed/ helped JR make those calls, not Lauren.

And, have they ever mentioned any incoming calls? conveniently not.

yes, the call from MB to JR at 3:30.

 

[doubtingthomas]

I don't think JW's reaction to CR is surprising. CR was last seen with Lauren, dragging her home half conscious. When she didn't get home the next morning, he claimed he had 'amnesia' and the stories coming from him, MB and JR didn't add up.

(snipped by me)

I totally disagree. The article states a few days later JW made the comment. I don't think he would have known CR's "amnesia" story or MB and JR's stories didn't add up when he made his comment. If he had made his comment a week after the searching was done then I think his reaction would be justified. Just my opinion.

 

[AbbeyR]

(snipped by me)

I totally disagree. The article states a few days later JW made the comment. I don't think he would have known CR's "amnesia" story or MB and JR's stories didn't add up when he made his comment. If he had made his comment a week after the searching was done then I think his reaction would be justified. Just my opinion.

They obviously would have talked to the guys at 5 N right away when they were looking for Lauren, and CR has apparently claimed to not remember anything about that night. Some of the conflicting stories told to witnesses were from the day that Lauren went missing (like the witness who ran into Corey and Mike at CVS), as was HT's conversation with JR. I think it's likely that this factored into why she was reported missing so quickly.

 

[newmember]

"Hadar Tamir, Spierer's roommate at Smallwood Plaza apartments, on Monday filled in more details of that morning, saying Spierer was hanging out with her until 12:30 a.m., then went with another Smallwood resident, David Rohn, to friend Jay Rosenbaum's apartment up the street.
Spierer, Rohn and Rosenbaum watched a basketball game at Rosenbaum's, said Tamir, who is friends with Rohn and Rosenbaum. They were joined there by Corey Rossman, who lives two doors down, she said. Tamir said Mike Beth, Rossman's roommate, was also there.
A while later, Rossman and Spierer went to a bar, Tamir said, and Rohn returned to Smallwood."

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...r-activities-before-vanishingodyssey=nav|head

^^found this on another forum that rhymes with "lock forum"
for some reason, when we think of the guy they called, the mystery guy, that Lauren had been watching the game with earlier, we think they were calling SW. But this article claims Lauren was watching the game at Jay's. But, David Rohn is seen on camera returning right after walking Lauren up there. So, right here is an example of her friends stories not matching up, not just the POIs. Plus, game was over by 12:30.

IMO, one of JR's guests must have been at large and they tried to call him, so they say, but why? IMO, the mystery guy is one of the house guests and they are
(weakly) alibiing him as not being present, while the other one is alibied as being asleep. This makes me wonder which chick is alibiing this mystery man. Lauren did stop off on the way to 5N and try to get in an apt that had, how many ghirls living in it? 4? 5?

Thanks for emphasizing this, I find this account confusing too: Even if HT is relaying the POIs story, it should read "Spierer was hanging out with HIM until 12:30AM". IMO, it seems this is a misquote/HT misspoke. What HT says makes no logical sense, and you don't need to follow this case to recognize that. In summary she says, "I hung out with LS, but was never at JRs, until 12:30 and then LS left to watch a basketball game at JRs at 12:30AM." I'm suspicious of HT but this seems technical rather than manipulative: I think she meant "I was with LS until 12:30 (and then she left Smallwood with DR)" and "Spierer, Rohn and Rosenbaum headed to Rosenbaums to party (not watch basketball game/no basketball game starts at 12:30 am)".

Most reports confidently confirm her and DR left Smallwood at 12:30 (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-spierer_n.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappe...Lauren_Spierer).

That being said, if HT has something to hide, maybe this mixup isn't innocuous (and maybe LE is not correcting the mixup for a reason). DR and LS leaving for JRs at 12:30 does not account for HT's whereabouts beginning early in the evening, when people gathered for the beginning of the game until 12:30am (and after). It also adds confusion to where ANYONE watched the game and for what duration they watched together. Did HT and LS watch the whole game together or just an hour? Were people party hopping between apartment units and even buildings? Did people smoke/drink outside or play beer pong/cornhole outside during the game? Did anyone go on a food/beer/drug run? Its been accounted LS and DR did klonopin BEFORE JRs - what ELSE was going on? who participated? was all of this going on in the same apartment or several units? Was there any drama/fighting during the basketball game (or earlier that afternoon)? Are any of these events relevant?

That's a long winded way of saying did anything suspicious happen before LS even arrived at JRs that resulted in something that would later spiral in the evening. Maybe HTs unclear account here is because she was having a hard time keep the story straight but clearly wants to separate herself from 5N, and with good reason. If she's innocent of any involvement, that's a natural reaction and if she is involved she's desperate to remove herself, starting with her lack of attendance at their apartment building....just speculating though and I don't know how strong the speculation is based on this one unclear account she gave.

Alternatively, if anyone on here can clarify what HT meant/maybe a later report clarifying her words, that would obviously be great. Thanks!

 

[Ros]

I personally think LS left her cell because she didn't remember it, given her description at SW not that much later. But it's also possible that she put it down somewhere (sand volleball court?) because she didn't feel like being tied to it that night. There's no way to really determine her mindset that night, IMO, i.e., did she or didn't she want to be in contact with JW. But if she needed a little space (and don't we all sometime?), maybe that was one way of getting it.

Or, as you speculate, CR could have stepped in and done it for her. But I don't think JW even needed to have been bothering her. She might have just not wanted to go home early but not wanted to explain so. JMO.

As I recall, CS said that LS used her phone for the last time at 12:15, while she was safe at Smallwood. So if JW was texting her, she did not respond.

 

[newmember]

Thanks for emphasizing this, I find this account confusing too: Even if HT is relaying the POIs story, it should read "Spierer was hanging out with HIM until 12:30AM". IMO, it seems this is a misquote/HT misspoke. What HT says makes no logical sense, and you don't need to follow this case to recognize that. In summary she says, "I hung out with LS, but was never at JRs, until 12:30 and then LS left to watch a basketball game at JRs at 12:30AM." I'm suspicious of HT but this seems technical rather than manipulative: I think she meant "I was with LS until 12:30 (and then she left Smallwood with DR)" and "Spierer, Rohn and Rosenbaum headed to Rosenbaums to party (not watch basketball game/no basketball game starts at 12:30 am)".

Most reports confidently confirm her and DR left Smallwood at 12:30 (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...-spierer_n.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappe...Lauren_Spierer).

That being said, if HT has something to hide, maybe this mixup isn't innocuous (and maybe LE is not correcting the mixup for a reason). DR and LS leaving for JRs at 12:30 does not account for HT's whereabouts beginning early in the evening, when people gathered for the beginning of the game until 12:30am (and after). It also adds confusion to where ANYONE watched the game and for what duration they watched together. Did HT and LS watch the whole game together or just an hour? Were people party hopping between apartment units and even buildings? Did people smoke/drink outside or play beer pong/cornhole outside during the game? Did anyone go on a food/beer/drug run? Its been accounted LS and DR did klonopin BEFORE JRs - what ELSE was going on? who participated? was all of this going on in the same apartment or several units? Was there any drama/fighting during the basketball game (or earlier that afternoon)? Are any of these events relevant?

That's a long winded way of saying did anything suspicious happen before LS even arrived at JRs that resulted in something that would later spiral in the evening. Maybe HTs unclear account here is because she was having a hard time keep the story straight but clearly wants to separate herself from 5N, and with good reason. If she's innocent of any involvement, that's a natural reaction and if she is involved she's desperate to remove herself, starting with her lack of attendance at their apartment building....just speculating though and I don't know how strong the speculation is based on this one unclear account she gave.

Alternatively, if anyone on here can clarify what HT meant/maybe a later report clarifying her words, that would obviously be great. Thanks!

To add a question to this post, does anyone have a grasp on HT's timeline, specifically where she watched the basketball game until she reported LS missing?

It seems her and LS hung out early in the evening/during the game and parted ways. Then, JW contacted HT in class the next day. Do we know what time HT was in class?

If anyone has thoughts or information from an article I missed, I'd be interested in reevaluating her reported timeline.

 

[AbbeyR]

@newmember

I don't have time to look up the links right now, but here's a basic timeline as far as I can remember (You can look up the articles in the media thread or read the first thread on Lauren's case here, where you will find the articles with HT's early interviews):

-Thurs night, HT was with Lauren at a friend's apt. down the hall, where people were watching the game. She doesn't say what time she left, but Lauren left Smallwood shortly after midnight with DR. Because of the security at Smallwood, LE has records of everyone coming and going in the building.

- The next day, JW's roommate drove him to class around noon, and nothing was out of the ordinary at that point. By 4 pm, he texted him freaking out that they couldn't find Lauren.

- This matches up with the timeline HT told the LoHud reporter, which was that JW had been trying to contact Lauren, and in the early afternoon got a message from an employee at Kilroy's, telling him her phone had been left there. At around 2 pm, he called HT and her roommate, and since neither of them had seen or heard from Lauren, he got HT's key and went to check if she was in her apt.

- Then we have the encounter at CVS, so I assume they started calling around looking for her. We also know that HT talked to JR that afternoon, and he told her he was the one who watched Lauren walk out the door toward home around 4 am.

So, by mid afternoon, they would have known at least that she left 5 N around 4 am, but didn't make it home, and that she didn't have her phone. They also, I'm sure, had heard from people at that point about the night before, so would know that she was in really bad shape when last seen, that people were concerned about how Corey was treating her, and that by the time he carried her off towards his place, she couldn't even walk on her own. They may have also heard conflicting stories about what happened from MB and JR.

Around 4:30, she was reported missing (not by HT), the Spierers were called, etc.

 

[Ixchel13]

HT is sketchy, thanks new member for picking up on that and wondering about her timeline, I am very interested in where she was during the altercation, in particular. Especially because she has so many good things to say, about the POIs, even if she changed her mind later, how convenient after the case was shaped by her remarks from the very beginning when she appointed herself spokeswoman and cheerleader for them.
IMO, she was present during the altercation, JMO, speculation. If my roommate were in that situation, if she wouldn't come inside the apartment, I would call security on her myself to make sure she stayed in, but that's just me, loyal like that.

 

[Vidocq]

Do local people on here have knowledge about the geography of the Tenth & College apartment building? Is the elevator just inside the parking garage off 10th street the only elevator? As far as I know, it is, and the only other ways upstairs are to walk up one of the two cattycorner staircases adjoining the interior of the courtyard.

 

[Ixchel13]

BBM. HT wasn't at JR's - in that interview, she was relaying the conversation she had with JR. It's the same interview where she describes how he told her about the 'stumble test' before Lauren left. So it's still the POIs stories that we are talking about.

In a later article, the information about calling the guy who was watching the game at Smallwood with Lauren also came from JR (he said Lauren made the calls):

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use (p5)

In the lawsuit docs (see media thread), it is stated that MB witnessed/ helped JR make those calls, not Lauren.



yes, the call from MB to JR at 3:30.

I think it was doubting thomas who pointed out MB could have called JR at that point because JR wasn't home.

we don't know who really made those calls. Again, they say two calls were made. If you have A,B,C and D, it wouldn't be a lie to say you
have A and B.
IMO, through all of this, and can't stress enough JMO, for some reason I think LE may believe she left there alive. In what condition they
seem to not be able to say. And they seem to be thinking that not just the last 3 to see her, but her bf may all be suspects, or one of them a suspect, or any combo .

Someone was saying that HT would be desperate to distance herself from 5N by saying she wasn't somewhere. But, can she be the initial spokesperson for the tragedy and for the POIs whereabouts and also not be forthcoming about her whereabouts? IDK.

 

[Ros]

@newmember

I don't have time to look up the links right now, but here's a basic timeline as far as I can remember (You can look up the articles in the media thread or read the first thread on Lauren's case here, where you will find the articles with HT's early interviews):

-Thurs night, HT was with Lauren at a friend's apt. down the hall, where people were watching the game. She doesn't say what time she left, but Lauren left Smallwood shortly after midnight with DR. Because of the security at Smallwood, LE has records of everyone coming and going in the building.

- The next day, JW's roommate drove him to class around noon, and nothing was out of the ordinary at that point. By 4 pm, he texted him freaking out that they couldn't find Lauren.

- This matches up with the timeline HT told the LoHud reporter, which was that JW had been trying to contact Lauren, and in the early afternoon got a message from an employee at Kilroy's, telling him her phone had been left there. At around 2 pm, he called HT and her roommate, and since neither of them had seen or heard from Lauren, he got HT's key and went to check if she was in her apt.

- Then we have the encounter at CVS, so I assume they started calling around looking for her. We also know that HT talked to JR that afternoon, and he told her he was the one who watched Lauren walk out the door toward home around 4 am.

So, by mid afternoon, they would have known at least that she left 5 N around 4 am, but didn't make it home, and that she didn't have her phone. They also, I'm sure, had heard from people at that point about the night before, so would know that she was in really bad shape when last seen, that people were concerned about how Corey was treating her, and that by the time he carried her off towards his place, she couldn't even walk on her own. They may have also heard conflicting stories about what happened from MB and JR.

Around 4:30, she was reported missing (not by HT), the Spierers were called, etc.

. I may no longer be remembering things correctly an I think the PT threads are gone now, but as I recall JW drove AWG to class, not vice versa. I only mention this because it is relevant to know who did and who did not have access to a car.

Also, I thought the CVS incident was on Saturday, late morning or early afternoon, rather than on Friday, but I looked back at a copy of the original article, and that was on the afternoon of June 3.

Finally, I suspect that JW got the key from HT out of fear that LS was dead or unconscious. I wonder if he had already tried ringing the doorbell or whatever means a visitor would use to gain entry to A Smallwood apartment.

 

[AbbeyR]

Oh, thanks for the correction Ros! I reversed that by accident - it was JW that drove A. to his class. (btw, the PT threads have been taken off line, but I have copies for reference if any questions come up)

The CVS incident was Friday, June 3rd.

HT was not present at the altercation at Smallwood. The investigators have described the people present as four male students, and although their names have not all been published in MSM, they are known by many people as this was talked openly about in social media in the days following Lauren's disappearance.

 

[newmember]

Oh, thanks for the correction Ros! I reversed that by accident - it was JW that drove A. to his class. (btw, the PT threads have been taken off line, but I have copies for reference if any questions come up)

The CVS incident was Friday, June 3rd.

HT was not present at the altercation at Smallwood. The investigators have described the people present as four male students, and although their names have not all been published in MSM, they are known by many people as this was talked openly about in social media in the days following Lauren's disappearance.

The altercation took place in the hallway though. The bigger question is if HT was in her apartment unit. The article says the altercation was on the 5th floor, which I'm assuming is LS and HT's floor since thats where LS and CR were headed. Unless HT was blacked out on alc and drugs herself, which I find unlikely given how she's spoken about the night, it is super unlikely she didn't overhear the fight.

IMO, being in her unit is almost (but not quite) the same thing as being in the hallway. If not overhearing herself, then someone would fill her in on what happened, especially since LS was trying to enter their unit (not just for safety purposes but the "excitement of the drama").

Therefore, she would KNOW LS wasn't in an ideal situation and logically would text JW/JR/or CR to see what's up. I don't care if they weren't best friends, they were friends and roommates so reaching out via text is the logical thing to do in HT's situation. It is what every single girl, including "mean" and selfish girls, would do. I don't know HT's personality but reaching out to someone via text to see what happened is SO EASY it is more telling if she didn't or is not admitting to texting someone involved. I can't think of anyone, including males, who are roommates and wouldn't put in that minimal effort. Also, HT was part of this group and probably had the natural incentive to hear the gossip.

It is possible HT did text CR/JR/JW, received no response and went to bed assuming LS would make her way back to the apt that morning/afternoon but IMO, it is too convenient she is missing physically and via technology from everything that happened after 12:30am.

If she was in her apt unit, it would be interesting to see HT's phone records. And, if she wasn't in her unit, where was she?

 

[imkeylime]

... Therefore, she would KNOW LS wasn't in an ideal situation and logically would text JW/JR/or CR to see what's up. I don't care if they weren't best friends, they were friends and roommates so reaching out via text is the logical thing to do in HT's situation. It is what every single girl, including "mean" and selfish girls, would do. I don't know HT's personality but reaching out to someone via text to see what happened is SO EASY it is more telling if she didn't or is not admitting to texting someone involved. I can't think of anyone, including males, who are roommates and wouldn't put in that minimal effort. Also, HT was part of this group and probably had the natural incentive to hear the gossip.

It is possible HT did text CR/JR/JW, received no response and went to bed assuming LS would make her way back to the apt that morning/afternoon but IMO, it is too convenient she is missing physically and via technology from everything that happened after 12:30am.

If she was in her apt unit, it would be interesting to see HT's phone records. And, if she wasn't in her unit, where was she?

I agree. Even if she wasn't privy to it directly, news of the altercation would have reached her sooner vs. later. And she would have shared it, maybe not with JW, but with others who knew LS and JW. Also, I don't rule out direct communication between some of the players that night. MB made a call to JW but then ended up in his apartment, for example. We know that because they're POIs, but HT, ZO and friends, and anybody else who saw/heard what went on probably talked about it, maybe even face to face.

I'm not sure what that means for the case, except that, IMO, JW could have gone to sleep or woke up knowing something about LS and CR. That doesn't make him a primary suspect, IMO, but I think there's a strong possibility that he knew something was up. I personally think he may have chose to do nothing at all and it's eating him, but there are other possibilities, obviously. JMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

The altercation took place in the hallway though. The bigger question is if HT was in her apartment unit. The article says the altercation was on the 5th floor, which I'm assuming is LS and HT's floor since thats where LS and CR were headed. Unless HT was blacked out on alc and drugs herself, which I find unlikely given how she's spoken about the night, it is super unlikely she didn't overhear the fight.

IMO, being in her unit is almost (but not quite) the same thing as being in the hallway. If not overhearing herself, then someone would fill her in on what happened, especially since LS was trying to enter their unit (not just for safety purposes but the "excitement of the drama").

<RSBM>

Why do you think that being in her unit is practically the same as being in the hallway? They were on the 5th floor, but they were not trying to get into Lauren's apt. They were in the alcove of the elevator. I wouldn't make the assumption that HT (or anyone else) heard the altercation - no one has ever said this.

I do agree that it's likely that news of the altercation got back to JW and HT at some point - but this happened at ~2:30 am. It could have been that night, or the next day.

 

[Ixchel13]

Oh, thanks for the correction Ros! I reversed that by accident - it was JW that drove A. to his class. (btw, the PT threads have been taken off line, but I have copies for reference if any questions come up)

The CVS incident was Friday, June 3rd.

HT was not present at the altercation at Smallwood. The investigators have described the people present as four male students, and although their names have not all been published in MSM, they are known by many people as this was talked openly about in social media in the days following Lauren's disappearance.

iirc, they have said they took statements from others present at the altercation, there were other witnesses, I believe, other than the thugs who were attacking CR. Yes, I'm calling them thugs, regardless of CR being a POI and a cad, these other guys were no angels nor were they helping lauren in any way.

Abbey, do you have a link where LE has stated that only the 4 guys were there?
because I have never heard either Qualters or Parker say that in the audio tapes nor read that in any SM. I am sure they probably mentioned that they were there and are witnesses, but the only witnesses?

 

[Ixchel13]

<RSBM>

Why do you think that being in her unit is practically the same as being in the hallway? They were on the 5th floor, but they were not trying to get into Lauren's apt. They were in the alcove of the elevator. I wouldn't make the assumption that HT (or anyone else) heard the altercation - no one has ever said this.

I do agree that it's likely that news of the altercation got back to JW and HT at some point - but this happened at ~2:30 am. It could have been that night, or the next day.

well, I may be wrong, but it's doubtful Lauren came back to her apartment building to hang out by the elevator, surely she was headed for her apt at almost 3 in the mo. I agree with the assumption that it would be easy for HT to find out if there was a ruckus in her hallway, and also make the assumption that she was awake.

she took it upon herself to be a media spokesperson for the POIs and
to seem in the know about the situation. nothing came out of her mouth even remotely like, "well I wasn't around much so I can't be sure of what happened." She seemed very sure that these guys were really nice guys
and that it was lauren that was out of control, indicating that she did things like that but this time just went too far.

It's really not that far of a stretch to imagine she knows something. JMO