IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[Ixchel13]

I was more or less thinking the same thing when I posted earlier. It seems really creepy to think of someone moving a corpse, but perhaps her body was encased in something (a sleeping bag or whatever?). OTOH, in the MI case I linked (Carly Lewis), her body was indeed moved.

FWIW, Martinsville got a lot of attention in the early threads of this case. It might be worth revisiting some of the posts.

very good idea

 

[biscuits222]

Looking at the NamUs page for Lauren it says: "DNA Status: Sample available - Not yet submitted" (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11173)

So theoretically some of her remains could have been discovered already and we wouldn't know because the DNA sample for her case has not been put into the system yet. Searching IdentifyUs for remains estimated to be 4ft 10 to 5ft 1 gets this case:

Height (inches) 60, Estimated
In August 2012, a bone was found by a fisherman in the Newton Creek, Camden, New Jersey. No other bones were recovered.
DNA: Sample submitted - Tests complete
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11364

There's a very low probability of the bone being from Lauren but I'm going to email the idea to the contact for LS, saying that the bone's DNA has been submitted and tested but Lauren's hasn't (maybe it will prompt the DNA to be put into the system, I mean it's been over three years). It does seem totally random whether DNA samples get put in the system or not - I've seen many cases of people who went missing after LS whose cases have had DNA samples submitted and tests completed

 

[biscuits222]

I saw this one too:

Height (inches): 62, Estimated
Probable year of death: 2000 to 2011
Partial skeletal remains found by a hunter at Newman Peak, just by Pichacho Peak, Arizona. No other personal effects were recovered.
DNA Sample submitted - Tests complete
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11183

I emailed findlauren.com and talked about the lack of DNA from Lauren's case being submitted into the NamUs system; maybe the family can help get things sped up or maybe her DNA really is in Namus and there's been a mistake.

I'm a sucker for numerical coincidences and the above case number is only one number removed from Lauren's case number at findthemissing: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11173

 

[imkeylime]

Looking at the NamUs page for Lauren it says: "DNA Status: Sample available - Not yet submitted" (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11173)

So theoretically some of her remains could have been discovered already and we wouldn't know because the DNA sample for her case has not been put into the system yet. Searching IdentifyUs for remains estimated to be 4ft 10 to 5ft 1 gets this case:

Height (inches) 60, Estimated
In August 2012, a bone was found by a fisherman in the Newton Creek, Camden, New Jersey. No other bones were recovered.
DNA: Sample submitted - Tests complete
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11364

There's a very low probability of the bone being from Lauren but I'm going to email the idea to the contact for LS, saying that the bone's DNA has been submitted and tested but Lauren's hasn't (maybe it will prompt the DNA to be put into the system, I mean it's been over three years). It does seem totally random whether DNA samples get put in the system or not - I've seen many cases of people who went missing after LS whose cases have had DNA samples submitted and tests completed

Thanks for doing this! It's weird that it's so random ... so someone could basically be discovered in an unexpected way but not identified due to the lack of DNA. I appreciate your efforts here.

 

[biscuits222]

I sent an email to Namus asking if the family needs to do anything specific to get the DNA status advanced from "sample available - not yet submitted" to "sample submitted - testing complete". There are loads of other years-old Namus cases in DNA limbo like this so I'll use this case as a test to see if it's possible to get things sped up, then I could go through other older cases with the same process.

People stereotype cases like Lauren's as "missing white girl syndrome" with saturation coverage, but it's clear that behind the scenes things are not necessarily as efficient as they could be. Her background is part Jewish on her father's side but "missing part-Jewish girl syndrome" doesn't sound so good (the Wikipedia page for Lauren talks about her activities in the Jewish community while absurdly including a big section on "missing white woman syndrome"). Namus classifies her race as "white / ethnicity: other" - they don't even have a category for "Jewish" so they just say "other". She is the Other, the unclassifiable....

 

[Ixchel13]

I sent an email to Namus asking if the family needs to do anything specific to get the DNA status advanced from "sample available - not yet submitted" to "sample submitted - testing complete". There are loads of other years-old Namus cases in DNA limbo like this so I'll use this case as a test to see if it's possible to get things sped up, then I could go through other older cases with the same process.

People stereotype cases like Lauren's as "missing white girl syndrome" with saturation coverage, but it's clear that behind the scenes things are not necessarily as efficient as they could be. Her background is part Jewish on her father's side but "missing part-Jewish girl syndrome" doesn't sound so good (the Wikipedia page for Lauren talks about her activities in the Jewish community while absurdly including a big section on "missing white woman syndrome"). Namus classifies her race as "white / ethnicity: other" - they don't even have a category for "Jewish" so they just say "other". She is the Other, the unclassifiable....

I could be wrong, but "Jewish" could span many races and ethnic backgrounds.
My son is Mexican by his dad's nationality, Mayan by ethnicity and if he converted, could also be called a jew. The issue here with Lauren may be that her DNA is simply not in the system.

also, thanks for your good work on this.

 

[chaplain1]

Ethnic Jews are those that have ethnic Jewish mothers. It is Talmudic and is still followed.

 

[Ixchel13]

Ethnic Jews are those that have ethnic Jewish mothers. It is Talmudic and is still followed.

agreed, but then,one of hundreds of definitions of what an ethnic Jew is, for example, an Ethiopian jew who could trace their Jewish background through their mother would be an ethnic jew as well as an ethnic Ethiopian, which is what I meant about spanning ethnicity.But that is getting into religious fundamentality, which we are not really discussing.
If Lauren's DNA is not in the data base, it should be, IMO, and I seriously doubt religion or ethnicity are reasons for this in this day and age. It is definitely something
we should follow up on and see about.

 

[Vidocq]

Looking at Lauren's file at NamUs, I notice the Clothing and Accessories subsection. I feel like relatives or other insiders must have contributed to this, as I've never seen such a detailed description of her clothing and jewelry, at the time of her disappearance.

I'm specifically interested in the description of her upper clothing. I had always heard her clothing reported as being black leggings on bottom, and some combination of white or light colored shirts on top. This specifically says,

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11173

"WHITE OFF THE SHOULDER SHEER SHIRT THAT WAS CROPPED AT THE BOTTOM, WHITE LONG SLEEVE BUTTON DOWN SHIRT WITH SLEEVES ROLLED UP".

In the photo released, of her leaving Smallwood,

http://www.michellesigona.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lauren-spierer1.png

she's wearing what could be a large t-shirt. But, given this information, I can see it being a button-up white shirt, with the sleeves rolled-up. Over her left forearm she is carrying another light-colored piece of clothing. This must be the "off-the-shoulder sheer shirt". I take "off the should" to mean that it exposes the shoulder(s), and "sheer" to mean that it's translucent.

 

[monkey222]

Good find and comparison Vidocq. I agree that in the pic..looks like it could be button down shirt with rolled up sleeves. To me it looks like it could have a collar, possibly. On her arm, to me it looks like a greyish..or heavier fabric shirt or jacket, but that is what my eyes see. Wonder what the LE video or stills show.

 

[bessie]

I thought it was said to be a cardigan or jacket over her arm. I always wondered if it turned up somewhere, or if she was wearing it in surveillance videos like monkey said. I recall the pink ballet flats very well, and at one time we had a good description of her jewelry. I don't remember all of it, though. It's been so long now...almost four years. Hard to believe.

 

[imkeylime]

I thought it was said to be a cardigan or jacket over her arm. I always wondered if it turned up somewhere, or if she was wearing it in surveillance videos like monkey said. I recall the pink ballet flats very well, and at one time we had a good description of her jewelry. I don't remember all of it, though. It's been so long now...almost four years. Hard to believe.

The fate of the jacket (also how I believe it was described) has always bothered me. I did do recent research on one piece of her jewelry. Here's a photo of the style of David Yurman turquoise ring she had on:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/227150374926477897/

One night when this case was bothering me I did an on-line search for this particular DY ring style, Albion (i.e, such rings are for sale on Ebay). Many of the offerings came with small DY bags to hold them. Many were size 7, which seemed large for LS. I believe her ring size was listed somewhere ... 5 1/2 or 6 maybe? Anyhow, I did find one size 6 ring like hers with a scratch on it and no little bag for sale in ... Oregon. I guess I don't know what I expected to find!

I'll try to track down a better description of her jewelry.

 

[imkeylime]

I thought it was said to be a cardigan or jacket over her arm. I always wondered if it turned up somewhere, or if she was wearing it in surveillance videos like monkey said. I recall the pink ballet flats very well, and at one time we had a good description of her jewelry. I don't remember all of it, though. It's been so long now...almost four years. Hard to believe.

Here's a link that describes the jewelry she was said to be wearing. The info is a few "next" buttons in. It says:

DIAMOND STUD BAR BELLY RING, LARGE SILVER RING WITH TORQUOISE STONE MADE BY DAVID YURMAN, SMALL GOLD BAND PINKY RING WITH SMALL RED STONE, ROUND SILVER "O" SHAPED RING, THIN GOLD BRACELET WITH RED "EVIL EYE" RUBY SURROUNDED BY DIAMONDS, POSSIBLY A BLUE HALF MOON NECKLACE

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/show/11173

There's also an article that describes the David Yurman ring in particular:

http://www.wthr.com/story/19413054/ring-could-help-crack-case-of-missing-iu-student

Sadly, I agree with the statement "A smart man would not pawn it." And there are many such rings out there on-line. There are also shops that set up at county fairs to sell silver jewelry. I wish her ring had an inscription or something ...

 

[Ixchel13]

The fate of the jacket (also how I believe it was described) has always bothered me. I did do recent research on one piece of her jewelry. Here's a photo of the style of David Yurman turquoise ring she had on:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/227150374926477897/

One night when this case was bothering me I did an on-line search for this particular DY ring style, Albion (i.e, such rings are for sale on Ebay). Many of the offerings came with small DY bags to hold them. Many were size 7, which seemed large for LS. I believe her ring size was listed somewhere ... 5 1/2 or 6 maybe? Anyhow, I did find one size 6 ring like hers with a scratch on it and no little bag for sale in ... Oregon. I guess I don't know what I expected to find!

I'll try to track down a better description of her jewelry.

wow you may be on to something!

 

[Ixchel13]

had a weird experience, or is it so weird?
was leaving a bar/restaurant 1/2 block from Kilroy's. outside the front door, there was a young woman twirling around. She said to me, "do this!" and twirled around. well, it was the first warm sunny day (6 p.m.) so I thought, what the heck and twirled. She said, "doesn't that feel great!?" and I realized she was intoxicated. She was petite, tiny, with long dark hair and big brown eyes. She was really clingy, told me her name and asked mine. she volunteered that she was in a fight w. her bf.
He had gone off with his friends w/o inviting her and she said she was breaking up with him. I asked her what she would do if he came back and was sorry and wanted to make it up to her. she said, "I was afraid you would ask that question." and I started thinking, wow, she reminds me of Lauren somehow. Then, she said she wanted my phone number!
"we can go have a drink sometime and talk,and then she went on to say, she just got into town a couple of months ago." Then, she insisted I put her number in my phone. I told her that hey, it's fun to be out
but not to be alone after 9 in any of these bars. She pulled out her phone, and told me the battery had run out and the charger was in
her car out in front of her apt. But that was good, she said, because then she wouldn't be able to take any of her bf calls.
I told her that she needed to get her phone charged immediately
in case she needed hekp and that I knew some people inside. As we went back in, I asked these guys by the door if they had a charger she could use. This guy said, "don't charge her phone back up!" and I asked why and he said,
and I quote, "we're working on this, don't worry about it, if you charge her phone, she'll call her bf. Her charger is in her car at home" I took her in the back and asked a cook for his charger and he started charging her phone. She was being super affectionate to me, saying "thank you, thank you thank you! and give me a hug, you're so nice, I love you!" and then said to the cook, "those guys were trying to do something and she helped me charge my phone!" I told her to stay right there until it charged and then to call her bf to come and get her. As I was walking away, she yells, "byeeeeee, I LOVE YOU!" lol.
then, as I was leaving I said to the guy by the door, "hey sorry but she really needs her phone charged" and he looked at me with these really steely
eyes and said, "I don't know if you can possibly understand how much I don't give a F&%@ about anything you have to say, it's really like a joke if you think I care." I just said "ha, ha yeah really funny" and walked out.
this is disturbing in many ways. The guy was right by the door--easy out with someone. He was preying on someone with boyfriend problems and was probably getting her drunk and all worked up about it, pretending to take her side. She was a sweet, friendly woman
who was in a vulnerable position. He definitely wanted her phone out of commission. He was really angry, not like ha-ha-ha, you c#* kblocked me mad but genuinely angry that I charged her phone.
This situation reminded me so much of Lauren's. I realize I place alot of emphasis on Lauren's phone in her situation but if she had had her
phone, she could have called someone. seeing this guy trying to keep this woman from her phone haunted the beejeezus out of me.
And, Lauren was trying very hard to find her phone. I don't believe she simply left her phone at Kilroy's. Because it was found there does not mean she left it there.

 

[monkey222]

Wow Ixchel, good fodder. I like the twirl part. What mean boys they were. Does make one think twice about the phone. Thx for sharing.

 

[Ixchel13]

ok, at around two this afternoon I called this woman's number because it was bothering me, I was thinking that i should have made sure she got home safely. She told me she called a friend to come and get her. whew! I really could never go out on a regular basis, betcha this kind of thing happens alot and it would drive me bonkers to see it unfolding time after time, next thing ya know, I would be the one in jail for disrupting the peace or whatever it's called.
But for those who do go out, please watch out for this whenever possible. I still think ALL bars should be required to post signs at the entrance and throughout the establishment that the safety of their clients will be maintained
as well as could ever be expected and that they will be required to have people arrested if they badger their clients.
Women bristle at being told it is dangerous to be unescorted while out at night--unaccompanied does not mean undated, IOW, it IS a fact that unaccompanied (meaning just alone, not with a date) women are NOT very safe at
night in a bar. yes, I'm sure there are countless exceptions, but in reality, not a good idea to be alone in a bar. I think these young women go out with their friends, see people they know, and then translate it into it's ok then to go out to these places alone. Lauren was not out alone in a bar, true. And even with her friends around, she ended up alone so they say. Bottom line is, we as society cannot emphasize enough that when you go out with a group, stay with that group, and don't leave anyone behind for any reason. And hey, bartenders and bar managers, when you see someone stranded, help them. These bars are making money hand over fist and they can afford cabfare for a stranded person who obviously isn't functioning!!

p.s. I told this girl to put my number in her contacts, and if she ever gets stranded again, to call me and i would come and take her home. I wish i could get others to do this, start a movement that would in turn begin to educate these younger people
to take more precautions.

 

[imkeylime]

ok, at around two this afternoon I called this woman's number because it was bothering me, I was thinking that i should have made sure she got home safely. She told me she called a friend to come and get her. whew! I really could never go out on a regular basis, betcha this kind of thing happens alot and it would drive me bonkers to see it unfolding time after time, next thing ya know, I would be the one in jail for disrupting the peace or whatever it's called.
But for those who do go out, please watch out for this whenever possible. I still think ALL bars should be required to post signs at the entrance and throughout the establishment that the safety of their clients will be maintained
as well as could ever be expected and that they will be required to have people arrested if they badger their clients.
Women bristle at being told it is dangerous to be unescorted while out at night--unaccompanied does not mean undated, IOW, it IS a fact that unaccompanied (meaning just alone, not with a date) women are NOT very safe at
night in a bar. yes, I'm sure there are countless exceptions, but in reality, not a good idea to be alone in a bar. I think these young women go out with their friends, see people they know, and then translate it into it's ok then to go out to these places alone. Lauren was not out alone in a bar, true. And even with her friends around, she ended up alone so they say. Bottom line is, we as society cannot emphasize enough that when you go out with a group, stay with that group, and don't leave anyone behind for any reason. And hey, bartenders and bar managers, when you see someone stranded, help them. These bars are making money hand over fist and they can afford cabfare for a stranded person who obviously isn't functioning!!

p.s. I told this girl to put my number in her contacts, and if she ever gets stranded again, to call me and i would come and take her home. I wish i could get others to do this, start a movement that would in turn begin to educate these younger people
to take more precautions.

Thanks for doing this, Ixchel. I agree that women (and men, actually) need to have someone who has their back, someone to fall back on if the circumstances get out of hand (for whatever reason) ... and also that we need to watch out for others. Your post reminded me of the Hannah Graham case. There are scum out there who definitely look for the vulnerable.

IDK if LS merely stopped using her cell that night because of her situaition or if it was taken away from her. While someone else could have had access to it, she may have not wanted to talk to JW while hanging out with CR. What I do know is that JR could have offered her his cell when she allegedly walked home from his place. That's one of the reasons I don't buy his story. He made a point to state how she was looking for her cell before leaving. Wouldn't a logical extension of her not having her cell at 4 in the morning be to let her borrow one?

If she indeed wanted her cell, it could have been to get into SW or possibly JW's, IMO. And if JR thought she needed a ride (and hence is why he called DR), I don't see why he would have let her leave without having a way to contact someone. I suppose it could have been a huge oversight on his part, if he was also intoxicated. Or maybe a character flaw? I just don't get it, which is one reason I don't believe it!

PS: I'd like to be able to move past the 5N POIs, TBH. I realize it's possible LS met up with a random perp or even someone she knew while en route home. But the road that even gets her walking home is rocky, IMO.

 

[Ros]

CS tweeted another plea for information. I do hope she gets answers. Almost four years now. I can't imagine living with such grief with no closure.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...spierers-mother-issues-plea-twitter/24978747/

 

[bessie]

From Ros's link:
"Loving you always, Lauren. Forever in our hearts. Just as determined as day one."

Lauren's in our hearts, also, Charlene. And you and Lauren's dad, too.