IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[Skigirl]

The trial evidence from prosecution included surveillance video from local businesses of what prosecutors described as DM's Kia following the taxi that took her home, and video also showed him circling the block where she lived six times.

Ugh, this is the first I've heard that -- following the taxi and then circling the house. It makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end. He certainly would have been capable of stalking LS. It's hard to believe that was his first murder. It smacks of an established MO to me.

 

[Ixchel13]

Yeah that was a wham bam conviction.

Question to those savvy in legalities: Now that he's safely locked away for a long long time, can they now drag him back outta jail -to face other murder charges and then
DP? I mean, he could have already pleaded out with info to convict a killer accomplice.
Or did the killer accomplice already plead him out? Could they actually have crissed crossed their pleas so they both avoid death penalty?

Now that DM is firmly convicted, when will the other shoe drop? As I think Ros pointed out, his earliest (JMW) release date could be Aug. 26

 

[Yeahbabs]

Interesting to re-read these posts. Ixchel, I think JMW's earliest possible release date WAS 8/26/16, but I just looked it up here: http://www.in.gov/apps/indcorrection/ofs/ofs

So 4 new convictions are listed since the date of IMH's post (2 on 3/24/16 in Johnson County and 2 on 4/26/16, one of which was in Marion County and the other in Johnson County). Now his earliest possible release date is 8/26/17.

So, yeah - when DOES the other shoe drop? How is it that they made it so clear at the trial that a second unknown male was involved but then just left it at that? This "unknown male" had his blood on the grass, in DM's car, his DNA was even under HW's fingernails! So, are they not trying to make him a KNOWN male?!

 

[Ros]

I suspect that LE is trying to identify the unknown male. Perhaps they hoped DM would identify him as part of a plea deal, and may do so even yet as part of a plea deal. For the purposes of the trial, the State only needed to prove that DM either killed Hannah or aided the person who did. In Indiana, aiding someone in the commission of a crime is treated the same as committing the crime.
LE may even have a good idea who the second male was, but not quite enough evidence for an arrest.

Also, there might not have been an unknown male present. Unless the unknown DNA samples all came from the same person, there's no proof that another person was actually at the crime scene.

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/08/blood-stains-dna

 

[Ixchel13]

Interesting to re-read these posts. Ixchel, I think JMW's earliest possible release date WAS 8/26/16, but I just looked it up here: http://www.in.gov/apps/indcorrection/ofs/ofs

So 4 new convictions are listed since the date of IMH's post (2 on 3/24/16 in Johnson County and 2 on 4/26/16, one of which was in Marion County and the other in Johnson County). Now his earliest possible release date is 8/26/17.

So, yeah - when DOES the other shoe drop? How is it that they made it so clear at the trial that a second unknown male was involved but then just left it at that? This "unknown male" had his blood on the grass, in DM's car, his DNA was even under HW's fingernails! So, are they not trying to make him a KNOWN male?!

yes thanks for that correction I knew it was aug or sept. seriously doubt he's gonna make that release!

BBM thought the very same thing when they kept saying "unknown male".

 

[akh]

I don't know about the blood on the grass, but I was just hearing about DNA evidence the other day and it was explained that in this day and age the presence of unknown DNA isn't that strange. People come in contact with a lot of people, and indirect contact with them via places they've been. And authorities are now able to find and analyze small, trace amounts.
So presence of unknown DNA by itself can be rather meaningless. It only becomes meaningful when it matches a suspect and wouldn't be expected to be there. What matters was that Messel's DNA and blood were found there, thereby further connecting him to the victim and crime (scene).

IOW, 'unknown' DNA being found would almost be expected, or at the least, very unsurprising to authorities. Extra DNA doesn't automatically mean "another perpetrator".

 

[Yeahbabs]

akh, I absolutely get what you're saying. I even commented up thread that when the defense attorney was drawing media attention to the presence of "unknown" DNA before the trial began that, if I were in a similar situation, probably lots of random DNA would be found in my car, too. Most of it would be from dogs' slobber, Pringles crumbs, etc. but it would still be unknown DNA.

BUT, that kind of thing was not the source of this unknown DNA in this case. It was found on DM's bloody shoe, taken from the unknown male's BLOOD samples found on blades of grass next to blades of grass with HW's blood at the murder scene, and was under HW's fingernails. That's a little different from someone drinking from the water bottle in my center console only to have their DNA show up after I'm murdered or something.

 

[Ixchel13]

akh, I absolutely get what you're saying. I even commented up thread that when the defense attorney was drawing media attention to the presence of "unknown" DNA before the trial began that, if I were in a similar situation, probably lots of random DNA would be found in my car, too. Most of it would be from dogs' slobber, Pringles crumbs, etc. but it would still be unknown DNA.

BUT, that kind of thing was not the source of this unknown DNA in this case. It was found on DM's bloody shoe, taken from the unknown male's BLOOD samples found on blades of grass next to blades of grass with HW's blood at the murder scene, and was under HW's fingernails. That's a little different from someone drinking from the water bottle in my center console only to have their DNA show up after I'm murdered or something.

yes I agree with your surmisal. The unknown DNA would NOT be from Hannah's visiting friend and his friend. They gave samples and supposedly were cleared, as I am sure {?}
that DMs friend from work also gave a sample.

So, yes, an unknown male could have left DNA in DM's car, but then it was outside the car, in the grass, and on both the victim and perp. If I had to guess, Hannah must have scratched, punched or head butted them in the nose. This could have been accomplished while 2 people were trying to carry her. Bless her soul, she was an athletic cheerleader.

If someone is blacked out, and they decide to fight, IMO they are more dangerous than someone who is just very drunk.

Saying JMW is an "unknown male" still gives him a chance to roll over on DM or someone else if possible. Just can't shake the idea he's involved somehow in Lauren's disappearance.

Going back to JMW's stepdad, who at first told reporters that he thought the dogs were no good, but then they hit on the trailer. First, what did they NOT hit on that made him think they were no good; secondly, what happened to the guy who died in the trailer? Why didn't the reporter ASK or did the reporter ask?

 

[IMH]

I think in the trial there is no attempt to pursue whether the unknown's DNA found in various places came from the same person. They made it sound like it was lots of different DNA, which could have been cross contamination. We all have other people's DNA on us all of the time. I am wondering if the video surveillance showed how many occupants were in the Kia?

 

[IMH]

Also, given DM's violent history, I'm not surprised that unknown blood would be found in his car and on his clothing.

 

[akh]

If law enforcement was actually circling in on these other names that are mentioned as to being connected to DM and possibly HW and other crimes, then (considering their circumstances) wouldn't LE likely have DNA samples they could compare with the 'unknown' DNA found at the scene?

 

[observation]

This is a case I have always tuned in to. I have 2 daughters and I cannot even fathom not knowing where they are or what happened to them. I really hope there is justice for LS. I really hoped an answer might stem from DM's evil-doings. Not sure. I just have this sinking feeling that her "friends" particularly of that evening, would have more information to share OR confess. IMHO


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[Yeahbabs]

I don't know, but I hope so! I felt a little deflated when the trial ended without other names being brought up (and questions I had hoped would be answered remaining unanswered), but like others have mentioned, the sentencing is yet to come. So all I can do is cross my fingers that names will be dropped for a sentencing dearl if nothing else. I know the Wilsons are relieved that DM is off the street, but I can't help but worry that someone else is still on the street.

i just hope it is someONE still on the street, and there is a connection to LS. Otherwise I worry that there are someONES on the street.

 

[IMH]

If DM had worn clothing that night that had also been worn by someone else (like his dad), I could also see how DNA under HW's nails could have included unknowns, since it seemed apparent she scratched the crap out of DM.

 

[Ixchel13]

If DM had worn clothing that night that had also been worn by someone else (like his dad), I could also see how DNA under HW's nails could have included unknowns, since it seemed apparent she scratched the crap out of DM.

For unknown male blood to be on the grass there had to be an altercation either with DM or Hannah.
We don't know when the unknown blood was found, but IMO right away.

The defense "outed" the cops for having the unknown blood on the grass DNA as a half-hearted attempt to raise doubts, but it really just put it out there on the table; something LE was not doing.

It all goes together in a circle, IMO. DM gets arrested, cops then go, "Oh-OH". We should have picked
him up when the snitch DH told us the first time. LE SAYS the snitch wrote another letter, maybe they asked him to so to CTAs?

At any rate, snitch gives them DM again, they go to DM and tell him what they got and he points them to JMW. I still stubbornly don't think DH helped move the body, but that LE is twisting his words to reporters a bit so we will think that and the other perp will think that.

Interesting to wonder if it was DM that RR was going to take out. In my theories concerning these suspects, RR does play a role. We know how tricky LE can be with the public. Obviously, they asked him who he was "scoping out". They only tell us he brings up Lauren.

Vidoq discovered that RR was not unknown to Kilroys, They knew he was trouble, Interesting that
DM was also known to Yogis, and they knew he was trouble too. Beings that both had patterns, they HAD to see each other at one time or another, at least. What did RR see from his parking garage perch on the nights he was up there before he was caught, and how long he was up to it are also things LE left out of the story,


Two problematic criminals hanging out, scoping out these bars. Aerial view (parking garage), binoculars, (DM), I mean, if they're not connected, or loosely confederated, like someone said upthread, is it someone or someones still out there?

Also, as we talked about way upthreads, it wouldn't be impossible for the last people to see Lauren to be involved. I keep thinking about that weird post on TG where the women claims that Lauren was out in town at a house with a "date". They don't really say it's a college guy. But when we all read it. we did assume that. I think at the time,. most posters were debunking any evidence that didn't point to the friend POIs. Could have been both.

and yet, I also remember bringing up repeatedly that the cops hadn't named the other 5 POIs. Again, most (myself included)assumed they were talking about other college students and their friends.

If they had DM on their radar but didn't tell us it's a huge travesty. Fine Print (DM former job) prints posters. flyers, etc for sororities and fraternities. And they are constantly generating these things.People think no way these kids knew these new suspects but they easily could have.

Sunday morning rambling before work.

 

[Ixchel13]

Wanted to discuss this with anyone:

There have been different accounts about how unresponsive Lauren was.

Let's start with: She was drunk when she left Kilroy's with CR.

She was unresponsive at SW during the Altercation and fell, yes. He helped her out the door, yes.

But Something violent just happened to her and CR, she was drunk, not speaking to anyone, but
by the PIs accounts, she was alive, moving, and well in the alley and when emerging from the alley on camera. They say they saw her on camera moving. at 2:52 am.

Witness says an unresponsive Lauren was carried up the street at 3:38 AFTER smacking her head and becoming unconcious.

This does not match in any way the first scenario. the bar witnesses account of her falling flat and then smacking her head backwards, being picked up while unresponsive and carried up the street. (after leaving JRs at an earlier time?) seems more likely now considering the other POIs.


Always IMO and some others here as well, that there were two separate occurences, at 2 different times, and now, what if by two separate POIs?

 

[Jacobite]

And in other news, the man who did so much to proliferate the drug OD theory in this case has now been arrested by the Bloomington Police Department for failure to report a dead body and stealing from a dead man.

 

[kimi_SFC]

And in other news, the man who did so much to proliferate the drug OD theory in this case has now been arrested by the Bloomington Police Department for failure to report a dead body and stealing from a dead man.

:thud:


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[Ixchel13]

What? Whom? yuck, now I see it's Gabe Rivera

 

[IMH]

Didn't that happen back in February (the Rivera arrest)?