IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #35

[VeryVeritas]

I started following Lauren's case when it first happened in June 2011. Everyone seemed to be focused on 5N, but I was struck by the insincere and seemingly inaccurate depiction of Lauren and JW's relationship. This was obviously a girl who had broken up with JW, or was at least flirting with and seeing other guys. The narrative that was put out by JW and his circle was that him and Lauren were in a loving long-term relationship, and that she was staying in Bloomington for the summer while he took classes. Later on the day of her disappearance, he was supposedly the concerned boyfriend, who notified the authorities that she was missing. He professed that she was "the love of his life". But this depiction of the nature of their relationship at the time of her disappearance did not stand up to even the minimum amount of scrutiny.

Certainly, given her actions in the week leading up to her disappearance, it does not appear that Lauren had the same opinion of their relationship either.

Meanwhile the people at 5N were heavily scrutinized. Why? Lauren disappeared almost without a trace. There are the statements that the 5N residents gave. There is the video of her in the alley. But nobody witnessed her abduction; or nobody has come forward who witnessed her die of an overdose for that matter, either. There is hardly any physical evidence of her disappearance and she has never been found. There simply isn't much to go on other than the fact that she was last with CR, MB, and JR, and they acknowledge that. Since that was all LE and the media and the family and anyone has ever been able to certifiably, undeniably latch onto 100%, all scrutiny came down upon them. They do not seem like the most savory of characters if you ask me; I would not want my daughter associating with them in any way shape or form. But, I have never seen them do anything after Lauren disappeared that raised a red flag in my book. Their actions following Lauren's disappearance seem entirely normal to me given the position they are in. They were obviously breaking the law and drugs were involved. A girl they were last seen with went missing. Anyone in their position should hire an attorney and they will often follow their attorney's advice. Did they take lie detector tests? I read somewhere that JR's lawyer claims he took and passed a lie detector test with Bloomington P.D. I believe that's true, otherwise I assume Bloomington P.D. would have refuted the assertion, since it was publicized in the media. They gave statements. They submitted for DNA testing. If they've done anything suspicious that would betray guilt since Lauren disappeared, then I would like for someone to point it out to me. Then I might reassess my position.

JW, on the other hand, acted very suspiciously. He was apparently in an argument with HT shortly before he called police. He misrepresented the status of his and Lauren's relationship in the days and weeks following her disappearance. His father flew out to Indiana THAT DAY and arrived even before the missing girl's parents did. He supposedly loved Lauren but abandoned the search for her after just a few days and fled to New York. Where he made often hyperbolic professions of love and edited his "relationship status" with her--a girl who had either dumped him or was cheating on him. A few years later, while the 5N residents and their families have remained relatively silent except for saying "please stop harassing us", JW's parents went to the media to call the Spierer's liars and basically say that Lauren deserved to die because she was a drug addict.

Is that the story of a man with nothing to hide?

You asked me what I think happened Yeahbabs, and here is my theory:

Lauren had dumped JW. She was flirting with CR in the week leading up to her disappearance. He was bragging to everyone that he wanted to hook up with her. They were apparently keen for each other. When they went out on the night of June 2, they partied together and probably planned to hook up. It's what young people do. They became extremely intoxicated, high, or both, and when they attempted to return to Lauren's residence, they were confronted by JW's friend ZO and his enforcer crew. JW's friend ZO punched CR in the face and just about knocked him out. That was a message from JW, or at least done as a service for a friend.

Unable to make it to Lauren's residence without further altercation, perhaps at her suggestion, perhaps at his...Lauren and CR walked back to his place at 5N. Perhaps she planned on staying the night with him. Camera footage of them in the alley is the last time she was verified to have been seen. I believe CR passed out as he said. I believe MB, probably the most credible witness at 5N, wanted nothing to do with her and passed her off to JR, who was her friend. Simple deductive reasoning, of which I can expound on in a further post if you would like, leads me to believe that there is no possibility of CR or MB being involved in Lauren's disappearance. None. An overdose and dumping of the body by the entire group can also be dismissed out of hand. I cannot rule out JR and/or his guest doing something malevolent to Lauren, or disposing of her body after a medical incident, but I think it's unlikely.

What I think happened is that the person most statistically likely to have been involved in her disappearance, the one with the motive, and no alibi, who acted dishonestly and erratically in the days that followed--her recently dumped ex-boyfriend, JW--was involved in her disappearance. I believe he was aware that ZO punched out CR that night. I believe ZO notified him of the incident, and that JW was jealous and stalked Lauren until he confronted her later that night. I believe their relationship was over, terminated by her, and that he accosted her with jealous rage.

I believe he notified his father he was in trouble and that his father arrived even before Lauren's own family did. I believe after hiding her body or temporarily hiding her body, he went through a charade the next day. Texting her phone, going to her residence, calling the police. When his father arrived, they went over to 5N (so obviously he knew where CR lived) and assaulted or attempted to assault CR again despite not having any evidence of him having done anything. CR wasn't even the last person to see Lauren alive.

I believe JW feigned searching for her just a few days, then left to New York.

And that last part is damning. People like to focus on prior actions, character of suspects and witnesses and the like--but I like to focus on what they do in the immediate aftermath of traumatic events. How do they behave? Like someone who is telling the truth, or someone who has something to hide?

JW left Lauren missing or dead in Indiana. He took to social media and made hyperbolic posts about his love for her and then went on with his life. That act of leaving someone behind, and then saying you love them, is the common psychological hallmark of someone who has committed a murder in jealous rage. It is their way of distancing themselves and letting go and saying goodbye.



I don't know anything about this other than what was reported in the media. If I had to guess, I would say it's unconnected. A jailhouse tip or something that didn't pan out. It's been such a long time with no further development, that I find it unlikely to be related.

Anyway, I hope Lauren returns safe to her family. It's unlikely, we all know, but it's not unprecedented. At the very least, I hope her fate is resolved, and closure can be brought to her family soon.

God be with you, LS family.

Wow, it's like no one reads the posts on this thread after all of these years. Lauren was clearly in no condition to leave 5N. That's if she even made it there!! There are many pages of posts on WS's where (and tremendous inconsistencies between them, their public statements and lawyer's statements) of those living at 5N and claiming to be the last to see her (or not remembering what happened) were exposed. Statistically it's the last person to see someone alive who is responsible, that usually is the significant other. In this case, they are different people. There is not one shred of evidence that JW knew where Lauren was or that he came over to Smallwood or near 5N, not on any cameras, not seen by any witnesses. Lauren was not only on drugs and highly intoxicated, she also was critically injured after leaving Smallwood first cracking her head so hard on concrete that it could be heard by friends inside their apartment who were looking out at her. Then again when she falls face down into gravel without trying to even block her fall with her hands as was seen on camera. This was all thoroughly explored and discussed for years. It's very difficult to walk around over there and not be seen on a camera. If JW were looking for her, he would likely be seen on the Smallwood camera, the Alley cam, or someone would have seen him at 5N, etc... No one saw him at all. Very simple things like JR's description of Lauren's injuries match someone who is critically or fatally injured. His description of her attempting to use another object thinking it was a phone but it wasn't, indicate that she was in no condition to go anywhere. But there were 2 phone calls made from his place, and he attributes them to Lauren. 1 call was to someone she took drugs with earlier that evening who was too incapacitated to even answer the phone and who left the party long before she did. The other call remains a mystery known only to LE. If that call were to JW, it certainly would be curious. But since it seems Lauren was incapable of making a call, much less standing on her own 2 feet, it's much more likely that JR made those calls for other reasons. It's also been repeated so many times that its sicking that some how ZO came to Lauren's rescue when she came into Smallwood with CR. As recorded on camera, she couldn't even stand up in the elevator without falling down, and ZO did NOTHING at all to help her. He clearly had another agenda with CR and that had nothing to do with Lauren. He demonstrated that he didn't care about her well being at all. So it was first reported that Lauren helped CR out of Smallwood, when in fact the opposite was true. Both were in bad shape, but cameras clearly showed that Lauren was way worse off than CR even after having been clocked by ZO. And that is BEFORE her head cracking on concrete and then later falling face down into a gravel lot. If you are fixated on JW and yet there is no evidence at all pointing to him, while at the same time ignoring the piles pointing to 5N people it seems very strange. Well not strange, because there have of course been people repeating that line since the very beginning. Their motives for doing so, are what I find interesting.

 

[Ven]

Well not strange, because there have of course been people repeating that line since the very beginning. Their motives for doing so, are what I find interesting.

My motive is to find out what happened to Lauren and in the absence of bringing her back alive, at least see her family find the answers they are looking for, and bring her killer or people who threw her body away to justice. I have been here since the beginning. What about you?

What is your motive?

There are some posters like me, who believe JW is responsible, but if you go back and read my posts, you will always see that I am willing to listen to other ideas and let other theories play out. If you want, we can discuss why I think CR and MB could not have possibly had anything to do with Lauren's disappearance, and JR is possible but not the most likely IMO. I think a logical person will see the presentation of my posts and thoughts, and conclude that my motivation is to see Lauren's case get solved. Period.

On the other hand, in these last 6 years, there have been a small number of posters who betray a different motive. They are not willing to entertain all possibilities. Even the slightest mention that JW deserves more scrutiny is met with responses ranging from dismissive to vitriolic. Why do you think someone LE has identified as a person of interest deserves not just logical defense, but impassioned defense? As if there is another agenda? Do these small number of posters know JW? Did they go to school with him? Do they know the people at 5N and had animosity towards them? You know I can't say, but I find it all very strange and very curious.

Anyway, regarding the substance of your post--you said many things, some of which are factually incorrect.

Lauren was clearly in no condition to leave 5N.

You do not know what Lauren's state of impairment was when she was last at 5N, dead or alive.

That's if she even made it there!!

Again, this is nonsense. Lauren and CR were recorded in the alley heading towards 5N. Your suggestion that she did not get there would mean she died in CR's presence while in transit. Why would MB and JR lie and place themselves even later in the chain of custody so to speak, and put themselves on the line, to cover up for CR? If you're a college aged male, and your roommate shows up on your doorstep with a dead girl and says "hey help me get rid of her body" you think these guys are just going to say "yeah OK no problem". I mean, this entire train of thought is ludicrous.

Based on MB and JR's statements, I think it can be concluded, regardless of what Luaren's fate was, that both her and CR arrived at 5N late on the night she disappeared, and that's where she was last seen alive.

There are many pages of posts on WS's where (and tremendous inconsistencies between them, their public statements and lawyer's statements) of those living at 5N and claiming to be the last to see her (or not remembering what happened) were exposed.

Why don't you make some of those arguments in a logical manner, the same way I am responding to you then.

CR does not remember the events of the night, or does not remember them sufficiently well enough to feel like he should say anything at all. That might frustrate or infuriate you, me, her parents, investigators, or anyone who wants more answers, but it is not something that is suspicious or betrays guilt in and of itself. He was heavily impaired from alcohol and drug use. Someone punched him out. If you look at those parameters from a neutral perspective, it is more than plausible that he would a) pass out at some point and b) not remember certain parts of the night. His lack of memory is not suspicious--all things considered I think it is actually normal. On the other hand, if he did have a clear and lucid memory of everything that went on that night, most likely such a story would be just that--a story. Something fabricated after the fact...but that is not the case.

If you can point out any inconsistent statement or action made by CR after Lauren disappeared that would indicate guilt, please point it out..

MB, meanwhile, was the next to last person to see Lauren alive. He says he was working on a school paper. CR passed out, and suddenly he had this drunk and obnoxious girl stuck there with him. I think MB is the most credible witness at 5N, and I can definitely see him not wanting to be bothered babysitting another guy's drunk girlfriend that he barely knew. If there had been nobody else around that knew her, then maybe he should have taken more responsibility to see her home safely. But her friend, JR, was right next door. It is perfectly reasonable that any young man in his shoes would have passed her off to JR her friend.

If you can point out any inconsistent statement or action made by MB after Lauren's disappeared that would indicate guilt, please point it out.

Finally, just as we can deduce CR must have arrived with Lauren at 5N, and CR must have passed out as he said (MB would have no reason to lie about these things and potentially implicate himself), we can also deduce very simply that Lauren did not die in MB and CR's apartment before she reached JRs. Otherwise, why would JR lie and potentially implicate himself? The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that Lauren made it to JR's apartment alive. Who was with her? Just Lauren and JR? Just the out-of-state friend? Did MB stay and party with them? These are good questions. I don't think CR and MB were at JR's apartment when Lauren left or died. Why do I think that?

Let's say these boys were making up a story, a conspiracy, to cover something up. If CR, MB, and JR were all there when Lauren died...why wouldn't they just say they all saw her leave? What would cause three different people to come up with three separate parts to this elaborate story, including one of them falsely passing out, when they could have just said "yeah she was with us but then she left and we all saw her walk outside?" Similarly if MB was with JR and Lauren, surely their make-believe story would have concluded with MB and JR watching Lauren walk out into the night.

Since the story is that JR and only JR was present and watched Lauren walk away, I think it is almost certain to be true that CR and MB were not present. Lauren was last in the company of JR and possibly his "sleeping friend" just as JR told the police. This is where it gets a little more murky in my book from a deductive standpoint--it's not possible to exclude that Lauren may have died in JR's presence. Or the sleeping friend. She could have died, and JR panicked and hid her body. She could have been killed by the friend. These are possibilities that must be considered and I am open to them. But what is the motive? Did they have the means or the faculty to dispose of her body? You mentioned one last phone call from JR? Who was that call to? Those are questions that need to be answered. Yes I agree.

Nevertheless, if you can point out anything inconsistent that JR said or did after Lauren disappeared, please do so. To my knowledge, he did not accuse CR or MB or blame the girl or anyone else. I don't detect any guilty action on his part after the fact.

There is not one shred of evidence that JW knew where Lauren was or that he came over to Smallwood or near 5N, not on any cameras, not seen by any witnesses.

Right. And there is not one shred of evidence that CR, MB, or JR killed her or disposed of her body either. After all, the case has not been solved. Just because the 5N guys were the last ones seen with her does not mean they are guilty. Again, if you can point out any inconsistent statement, or any action that betrays guilt on their behalf after Lauren disappeared, please do so.

I have--on the other hand--pointed out many inconsistencies in JW's statements. And I have pointed out many actions that he took that betray guilt. He lied and misrepresented the status of his relationship with Lauren. He acted in a manner when reporting her disappearance that raises red flags. He got into an argument with her roommate. His father arrived from 1,000 miles away before Lauren's own family did. It's even possible that it might have been physically impossible for him to arrive so soon without a reasonable amount of hesitation and waiting to hear more about her fate. There are inconsistencies in the statements that JW and his father gave about their conversation the night Lauren disappeared. He had a motive and no alibi. He searched for Lauren just a few days and then fled to New York. He immediately went back and started deleting old social media posts. He changed the status of his and Lauren's relationship on facebook at least once if not multiple times. He posted hyperbolic professions of love for her on his page and hers and invited hundreds of other people to the pages to read them, while he hid 1,000 miles away from the search. His parents slandered the Spierers. They said Lauren deserved to die because she's a drug addict.

Yes, there is one person of interest who deserves far more scrutiny than all of the others. And he didn't live at 5N.

 

[CoolJ]

opcorn:

Haven't seen a good JW vs. 5N debate in a long time. But why now?

I thought we had moved on to a local sex predator targeting drunk college girls?

 

[Ven]

opcorn:

Haven't seen a good JW vs. 5N debate in a long time. But why now?

I thought we had moved on to a local sex predator targeting drunk college girls?

Well I think this is the problem with investigations of cases that remain unsolved. People go around in circles flapping at the latest news, and then inevitably return to the facts are 100% known.

Everyone focuses on 5N because CR was seen with her on camera and they all admit to being the last ones to see her alive. Their statements are the things that everyone always returns to, and since the case isn't solved, when people return to their statements, they question them. And doubt them. And over and over again.

Meanwhile there is video of a truck! That has to be it...and it is discussed for days. Nothing pans out. And it's back to 5N.

And then there are keys! And witness reports of a scream. And searches at landfills and farms. But the leads are empty, and it's back to 5N.

And then there is a local sex offender who kills another girl. Certainly that could be what happened here. But it's so unlikely, and there is already one other person in the case who lied, misrepresented, did suspicious things, called his dad to fly out, and then ran away to New York.

In the absence of JW's incriminating behavior after Lauren disappeared, I would definitely be more open to the possibility of a stranger abduction. But I don't see why that is likely at all, when her boyfriend had quite obviously just been dumped by her, was lying about it, has no alibi, and did all of these suspicious things.

 

[Yeahbabs]

opcorn:

Haven't seen a good JW vs. 5N debate in a long time. But why now?

I thought we had moved on to a local sex predator targeting drunk college girls?

Then there's that.

I definitely think Daniel Messel is a possibility, and I still wonder about Justin Wagers. That raid was the first big thing to be publicly acknowledged as being related to the case. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine those 2 creeps knew each other, and considering they're both in custody, maybe there's a feeling among LE that they have time to cross their t's and dot their i's.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[akh]

Well I think this is the problem with investigations of cases that remain unsolved. People go around in circles flapping at the latest news, and then inevitably return to the facts are 100% known.

Everyone focuses on 5N because CR was seen with her on camera and they all admit to being the last ones to see her alive. Their statements are the things that everyone always returns to, and since the case isn't solved, when people return to their statements, they question them. And doubt them. And over and over again.

Meanwhile there is video of a truck! That has to be it...and it is discussed for days. Nothing pans out. And it's back to 5N.

And then there are keys! And witness reports of a scream. And searches at landfills and farms. But the leads are empty, and it's back to 5N.

And then there is a local sex offender who kills another girl. Certainly that could be what happened here. But it's so unlikely, and there is already one other person in the case who lied, misrepresented, did suspicious things, called his dad to fly out, and then ran away to New York.

In the absence of JW's incriminating behavior after Lauren disappeared, I would definitely be more open to the possibility of a stranger abduction. But I don't see why that is likely at all, when her boyfriend had quite obviously just been dumped by her, was lying about it, has no alibi, and did all of these suspicious things.

I agree you. I've basically said the same things several times. DM does move himself up in the conversation IMO by certainly fitting a profile of a random stranger though.
But JW's actions, particularly how quickly he jumped to claim her missing, just seem wrong to me. Once he knew she didn't have her phone, that should've calmed him a bit. That explained why she wasn't answering texts. And I've still yet to hear anyone explain how he could've known that she hadn't been home and left already that day versus had to be missing?

I also think that the narrative that 5N didn't cooperate is skewed. They obviously cooperated to some degree or else much of the official information that is now in the public domain wouldn't exist. JR even met with the parents.
I believe the idea that they didn't cooperate has more to do with them simply not confessing to the crime. The parents seemed to blame them and for them to say anything short of a confession was simply not going to be believed and be deemed as not cooperating.
Of course as the focus shifted to them they did get lawyers, as anyone in their situation would do.

None of this eliminates them from suspicion, but I've never been able to understand how some posters refuse to see JW on the same footing at the least. He seems like the one who cooperated the least, but that also meant he left the least direct information behind in the media for people to dissect.

 

[Skigirl]

Wow, it's like no one reads the posts on this thread after all of these years. Lauren was clearly in no condition to leave 5N. That's if she even made it there!! There are many pages of posts on WS's where (and tremendous inconsistencies between them, their public statements and lawyer's statements) of those living at 5N and claiming to be the last to see her (or not remembering what happened) were exposed. Statistically it's the last person to see someone alive who is responsible, that usually is the significant other. In this case, they are different people. There is not one shred of evidence that JW knew where Lauren was or that he came over to Smallwood or near 5N, not on any cameras, not seen by any witnesses. Lauren was not only on drugs and highly intoxicated, she also was critically injured after leaving Smallwood first cracking her head so hard on concrete that it could be heard by friends inside their apartment who were looking out at her. Then again when she falls face down into gravel without trying to even block her fall with her hands as was seen on camera. This was all thoroughly explored and discussed for years. It's very difficult to walk around over there and not be seen on a camera. If JW were looking for her, he would likely be seen on the Smallwood camera, the Alley cam, or someone would have seen him at 5N, etc... No one saw him at all. Very simple things like JR's description of Lauren's injuries match someone who is critically or fatally injured. His description of her attempting to use another object thinking it was a phone but it wasn't, indicate that she was in no condition to go anywhere. But there were 2 phone calls made from his place, and he attributes them to Lauren. 1 call was to someone she took drugs with earlier that evening who was too incapacitated to even answer the phone and who left the party long before she did. The other call remains a mystery known only to LE. If that call were to JW, it certainly would be curious. But since it seems Lauren was incapable of making a call, much less standing on her own 2 feet, it's much more likely that JR made those calls for other reasons. It's also been repeated so many times that its sicking that some how ZO came to Lauren's rescue when she came into Smallwood with CR. As recorded on camera, she couldn't even stand up in the elevator without falling down, and ZO did NOTHING at all to help her. He clearly had another agenda with CR and that had nothing to do with Lauren. He demonstrated that he didn't care about her well being at all. So it was first reported that Lauren helped CR out of Smallwood, when in fact the opposite was true. Both were in bad shape, but cameras clearly showed that Lauren was way worse off than CR even after having been clocked by ZO. And that is BEFORE her head cracking on concrete and then later falling face down into a gravel lot. If you are fixated on JW and yet there is no evidence at all pointing to him, while at the same time ignoring the piles pointing to 5N people it seems very strange. Well not strange, because there have of course been people repeating that line since the very beginning. Their motives for doing so, are what I find interesting.

I'm not utterly convinced that JW had something to do with it, though it's something I've wondered since the very beginning, given that I think it's a non-zero probability that word got back to him that she was out with another guy that night -- and he has no alibi. He certainly had a motive and he potentially had an opportunity. I don't think it's the totally unreasonable question that the above makes it out to be. Obviously, there are ways to get out of 5N without being caught on camera, or else the mystery of what happened to LS would have been solved long, long ago, so I don't think it's reasonable to assume that if JW had been lurking, he would have to have been caught on camera.

 

[Ros]

A few other thoughts re: JW
1. One of the Facebook posts he deleted after she disappeared was a quote from a movie regarding an "urge to kill."
2. There was a theory that JW knew about Lauren's heart condition. When he checked her apartment and found that she wasn't there but her medication for that day (or perhaps the previous night) was there, he realized something was wrong.
3. Was it JW who first contacted LE or LS's roommates? I've seen it reported both ways.
4. JW did receive his degree from IU in Dec of 2011. I thought I read that all PsOI were back on campus for the fall semester. What's the source that says that JW did not finish his degree on campus?

 

[Ixchel13]

My motive is to find out what happened to Lauren and in the absence of bringing her back alive, at least see her family find the answers they are looking for, and bring her killer or people who threw her body away to justice. I have been here since the beginning. What about you?

What is your motive?

There are some posters like me, who believe JW is responsible, but if you go back and read my posts, you will always see that I am willing to listen to other ideas and let other theories play out. If you want, we can discuss why I think CR and MB could not have possibly had anything to do with Lauren's disappearance, and JR is possible but not the most likely IMO. I think a logical person will see the presentation of my posts and thoughts, and conclude that my motivation is to see Lauren's case get solved. Period.

On the other hand, in these last 6 years, there have been a small number of posters who betray a different motive. They are not willing to entertain all possibilities. Even the slightest mention that JW deserves more scrutiny is met with responses ranging from dismissive to vitriolic. Why do you think someone LE has identified as a person of interest deserves not just logical defense, but impassioned defense? As if there is another agenda? Do these small number of posters know JW? Did they go to school with him? Do they know the people at 5N and had animosity towards them? You know I can't say, but I find it all very strange and very curious.

Anyway, regarding the substance of your post--you said many things, some of which are factually incorrect.



You do not know what Lauren's state of impairment was when she was last at 5N, dead or alive.



Again, this is nonsense. Lauren and CR were recorded in the alley heading towards 5N. Your suggestion that she did not get there would mean she died in CR's presence while in transit. Why would MB and JR lie and place themselves even later in the chain of custody so to speak, and put themselves on the line, to cover up for CR? If you're a college aged male, and your roommate shows up on your doorstep with a dead girl and says "hey help me get rid of her body" you think these guys are just going to say "yeah OK no problem". I mean, this entire train of thought is ludicrous.

Based on MB and JR's statements, I think it can be concluded, regardless of what Luaren's fate was, that both her and CR arrived at 5N late on the night she disappeared, and that's where she was last seen alive.



Why don't you make some of those arguments in a logical manner, the same way I am responding to you then.

CR does not remember the events of the night, or does not remember them sufficiently well enough to feel like he should say anything at all. That might frustrate or infuriate you, me, her parents, investigators, or anyone who wants more answers, but it is not something that is suspicious or betrays guilt in and of itself. He was heavily impaired from alcohol and drug use. Someone punched him out. If you look at those parameters from a neutral perspective, it is more than plausible that he would a) pass out at some point and b) not remember certain parts of the night. His lack of memory is not suspicious--all things considered I think it is actually normal. On the other hand, if he did have a clear and lucid memory of everything that went on that night, most likely such a story would be just that--a story. Something fabricated after the fact...but that is not the case.

If you can point out any inconsistent statement or action made by CR after Lauren disappeared that would indicate guilt, please point it out..

MB, meanwhile, was the next to last person to see Lauren alive. He says he was working on a school paper. CR passed out, and suddenly he had this drunk and obnoxious girl stuck there with him. I think MB is the most credible witness at 5N, and I can definitely see him not wanting to be bothered babysitting another guy's drunk girlfriend that he barely knew. If there had been nobody else around that knew her, then maybe he should have taken more responsibility to see her home safely. But her friend, JR, was right next door. It is perfectly reasonable that any young man in his shoes would have passed her off to JR her friend.

If you can point out any inconsistent statement or action made by MB after Lauren's disappeared that would indicate guilt, please point it out.

Finally, just as we can deduce CR must have arrived with Lauren at 5N, and CR must have passed out as he said (MB would have no reason to lie about these things and potentially implicate himself), we can also deduce very simply that Lauren did not die in MB and CR's apartment before she reached JRs. Otherwise, why would JR lie and potentially implicate himself? The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that Lauren made it to JR's apartment alive. Who was with her? Just Lauren and JR? Just the out-of-state friend? Did MB stay and party with them? These are good questions. I don't think CR and MB were at JR's apartment when Lauren left or died. Why do I think that?

Let's say these boys were making up a story, a conspiracy, to cover something up. If CR, MB, and JR were all there when Lauren died...why wouldn't they just say they all saw her leave? What would cause three different people to come up with three separate parts to this elaborate story, including one of them falsely passing out, when they could have just said "yeah she was with us but then she left and we all saw her walk outside?" Similarly if MB was with JR and Lauren, surely their make-believe story would have concluded with MB and JR watching Lauren walk out into the night.

Since the story is that JR and only JR was present and watched Lauren walk away, I think it is almost certain to be true that CR and MB were not present. Lauren was last in the company of JR and possibly his "sleeping friend" just as JR told the police. This is where it gets a little more murky in my book from a deductive standpoint--it's not possible to exclude that Lauren may have died in JR's presence. Or the sleeping friend. She could have died, and JR panicked and hid her body. She could have been killed by the friend. These are possibilities that must be considered and I am open to them. But what is the motive? Did they have the means or the faculty to dispose of her body? You mentioned one last phone call from JR? Who was that call to? Those are questions that need to be answered. Yes I agree.

Nevertheless, if you can point out anything inconsistent that JR said or did after Lauren disappeared, please do so. To my knowledge, he did not accuse CR or MB or blame the girl or anyone else. I don't detect any guilty action on his part after the fact.



Right. And there is not one shred of evidence that CR, MB, or JR killed her or disposed of her body either. After all, the case has not been solved. Just because the 5N guys were the last ones seen with her does not mean they are guilty. Again, if you can point out any inconsistent statement, or any action that betrays guilt on their behalf after Lauren disappeared, please do so.

I have--on the other hand--pointed out many inconsistencies in JW's statements. And I have pointed out many actions that he took that betray guilt. He lied and misrepresented the status of his relationship with Lauren. He acted in a manner when reporting her disappearance that raises red flags. He got into an argument with her roommate. His father arrived from 1,000 miles away before Lauren's own family did. It's even possible that it might have been physically impossible for him to arrive so soon without a reasonable amount of hesitation and waiting to hear more about her fate. There are inconsistencies in the statements that JW and his father gave about their conversation the night Lauren disappeared. He had a motive and no alibi. He searched for Lauren just a few days and then fled to New York. He immediately went back and started deleting old social media posts. He changed the status of his and Lauren's relationship on facebook at least once if not multiple times. He posted hyperbolic professions of love for her on his page and hers and invited hundreds of other people to the pages to read them, while he hid 1,000 miles away from the search. His parents slandered the Spierers. They said Lauren deserved to die because she's a drug addict.

Yes, there is one person of interest who deserves far more scrutiny than all of the others. And he didn't live at 5N.

listen, the reports of Lauren being unable to do or say anything vary great. Private investigators state that in the alley with CR Lauren was very much alive. Other witnesses such as the bartender describe her as hitting her head and comatose. So! Obviously, IMO her night didn't end right after she was last seen on camera at 2:52.

In my mind, all of the bad things these kids did, such as beating up on each other, stalking each other, ODing each other, locking each other out of apartments (IMO), etc, could have led to a bedraggled and cast off Lauren being snatched up by a local stalker, one who had seen Lauren at both Yogis and Kilroys and knew she walked back and forth from her friends' apts and these watering holes.

In my mind, if her friends and boyfriend stalked her and caused her to flee into the night incapacitated, and then they couldn't find her because someone snatched her right under their noses, they caused it regardless.

These stalkers know where these kids live! JW and Hannah Wilson both lived in houses right around the corner from Yogis. Lauren would have gone to Yogis on Thursdays too, Thirsty Thursday is when all of the kids go out and thereafter Lauren and Hannah went missing.

So, no one really knows, Very Veritas, in which state Lauren was when she finally
went missing.

 

[Ven]

Right, good point Ixchel. One of the social media posts he deleted was that he had the "urge to kill". IIRC it was originally posted just a few days before Lauren went missing.

I'm guessing that was because Lauren dumped him and was seeing other guys. He was jealous as hell.

 

[Ixchel13]

Right, good point Ixchel. One of the social media posts he deleted was that he had the "urge to kill". IIRC it was originally posted just a few days before Lauren went missing.

I'm guessing that was because Lauren dumped him and was seeing other guys. He was jealous as hell.

Yes! Yeahbabs, can we please have your map, the one that included JW and Hannahs houses? Because, the other woman who survived and her rape kit provided LE with Messels DNA, lived around there, too!

reason I say this is that like Lauren, Hannah was fussing loudly with her friends and the two guys they
were with, and even though Hannah protested, and even begged one of the guys to come with her, they put her in a cab anyway. Messell followed that cab.

Lauren is also said to have had a small fuss in Kilroys
right before they closed and told everyone to leave.

Gradually I'm beginning to think that 5N gang incl JW are guilty of everything right up to the moment someone else, and I'm thinking DM, snatched Lauren.

Look, you're a villian like DM who has thought this out. 6 or a dozen people will be blamed in a situation like this every time instead of the perp, and they know this.

 

[Ixchel13]

Lauren's case s fascinating because you can take each poi and make a scenario with them as the perp and we have! cadaverine was not detected in JR's apt. imo, Lauren's physical presence was, thereby we have the tenuous glue holding their streamlined alibis together. once we tied these known killer/stalkers/suspects tenuously together as well, it could be that DM singled out Lauren as being in a situation just like he did with Hannah.

 

[Ixchel13]

putting this in Lauren's thread, because the year after she disappeared, at the same time of year, Mickey
Shunick disappeared and LE looked at similarities.

This young coed at work was telling us she had injured her shoulder a some weeks past and I asked how. She said on her bike.I asked, just riding too much too strenuously? and she says no, someone cut right in front of her, she swerved madly to miss them, and was thrown from her bike onto her shoulder.
ok she's got my curiosity...I'm like, did anyone get out of the vehicle and she goes, "no, it was a guy on foot. Before I could even get up he had my glasses and
bike and said he could put it in his van. (Like Mickey!)
this girl was concerned about her bike and she said she lived right up the block, no thank you. He continued to walk her bike in that direction, insisting on helping. When she got to her door and unlocked it, he tried to push her inside but she managed to get behind her bike, push him out and lock the door, calling 911.

I was standing there with the goosebumps like electric shocks, going from my head to toes and arms. I told her, "I don't want to scare you, but you are sooooo
lucky to be alive, you went through the classic bicycle abduction and you did exactly what they tell you to do by using your bike." And her shoulder was dislocated!
She didn't mind answering a few questions: May 19,
white guy, van, LE took her story with a grain of salt, merely asking her which direction he seemed to be coming from, hospital ER acted like she was making it up. IOW, no alert anywhere that a predator might be waiting for another woman on a bike in that area. It was McDoel Gardens right by the hospital. Thing is, many young families and kids, it's a vibrant neighborhood.
She said when he tried to push her in, he grabbed and pushed her by the buttocks. She told me she rammed him with her bike. I told her how hard Mickey had fought for her life.
I mean, help me out, people from Bloomington, don't you think warnings should be posted where cyclists
can read them?

 

[Ros]

putting this in Lauren's thread, because the year after she disappeared, at the same time of year, Mickey
Shunick disappeared and LE looked at similarities.

This young coed at work was telling us she had injured her shoulder a some weeks past and I asked how. She said on her bike.I asked, just riding too much too strenuously? and she says no, someone cut right in front of her, she swerved madly to miss them, and was thrown from her bike onto her shoulder.
ok she's got my curiosity...I'm like, did anyone get out of the vehicle and she goes, "no, it was a guy on foot. Before I could even get up he had my glasses and
bike and said he could put it in his van. (Like Mickey!)
this girl was concerned about her bike and she said she lived right up the block, no thank you. He continued to walk her bike in that direction, insisting on helping. When she got to her door and unlocked it, he tried to push her inside but she managed to get behind her bike, push him out and lock the door, calling 911.

I was standing there with the goosebumps like electric shocks, going from my head to toes and arms. I told her, "I don't want to scare you, but you are sooooo
lucky to be alive, you went through the classic bicycle abduction and you did exactly what they tell you to do by using your bike." And her shoulder was dislocated!
She didn't mind answering a few questions: May 19,
white guy, van, LE took her story with a grain of salt, merely asking her which direction he seemed to be coming from, hospital ER acted like she was making it up. IOW, no alert anywhere that a predator might be waiting for another woman on a bike in that area. It was McDoel Gardens right by the hospital. Thing is, many young families and kids, it's a vibrant neighborhood.
She said when he tried to push her in, he grabbed and pushed her by the buttocks. She told me she rammed him with her bike. I told her how hard Mickey had fought for her life.
I mean, help me out, people from Bloomington, don't you think warnings should be posted where cyclists
can read them?

Could you alert the Central Indiana Bicycling Association? Perhaps supply redacted police report for confirmation?

 

[Ixchel13]

Could you alert the Central Indiana Bicycling Association? Perhaps supply redacted police report for confirmation?

thanks Ros I'll do that. Don't ride a bike, but support our very large bike community. I guess I'll go look it up now.

 

[Ixchel13]

thanks Ros I'll do that. Don't ride a bike, but support our very large bike community. I guess I'll go look it up now.

ust tried to look it up on the bloomington police blotter, it wasn't there. i looked on the 18th and the 20th as well. she said that LE didn't take her story very seriously, do they sometimes not report crimes they check on? because just right off the cuff when she was recounting her "accident" it stood out in flashing colors as an attempted abduction!

 

[LongTallTexan]

Interesting that 6 yrs later, we still do not know who the second call was made to by Lauren/Jason?

Although I tend to look much less at 5N for all the reasons that Ven states so eloquently, abduction is usually sloppy...yet no Lauren. JW was and will always be on the radar....I also concur that his actions and motive are suspect.

 

[Ixchel13]

Could you alert the Central Indiana Bicycling Association? Perhaps supply redacted police report for confirmation?

Ros I posted the info on the CIBA facebook. Talked to the victim again , she wasn't surprised to find out it wasn't on the incident log for the night because she said the LE wasn't that concerned!

It's like the officer didn't see the incident as a classic
way someone would disable the cyclist and then abduct. I mean, guy had a van, why would he be walking in front of her, and then trying to push her inside her front door?
anyway, if I sound paranoid, it's because we went through the Mickey Shunick in LA case, and then this woman tells this scary story about her bike. And from Bloomington, where it seems there are more than a few killers on the loose.
I don't want to ruin everybody's fun and get people busted, but I wish there was a way to get it across to these young people that they aren't really safe in these bar districts and then leaving alone. Maybe that can change but for right now, no.
In Lauren's case, during the first 4 years, 5N POIs incl.
JW seemed most likely, but then several other attempted abductions, Hannah's murder and then a rape/abduction survivor with her killer's DNA match.
This DM stalked Hannah and snatched her right under her friends and even her roommate's noses!
DM was very much around during Lauren's disappearance and the MO would be the exact same.
Hannah's roommate heard the door open and not close and then Hannah was gone. IMO, JW might have been laying in wait for Lauren but then she never appeared.
I know that corner. If Lauren had rounded the corner, DM could have grabbed her and pulled her into the walkway right there that had led to the very dark back parking lot of 5N, into a vehicle and then right out to Morton St, then 11th, and out the west way. JW, however, could have been waiting right down the street a little by the bisecting e/w alley that led to the 10th and C alley they favored as a walkway to SW. to me it makes sense that he would wait there
instead of standing on the corner, lots of cops. also, as MaHouston has posted, Laurens keys were found.
After all this time, I'm wondering, was there a key or a key fob for Lauren's car?
I know there was a key card but iirc someone turned in keys that she had left during the altercation?

 

[Beemoji]

Ros I posted the info on the CIBA facebook. Talked to the victim again , she wasn't surprised to find out it wasn't on the incident log for the night because she said the LE wasn't that concerned!

It's like the officer didn't see the incident as a classic
way someone would disable the cyclist and then abduct. I mean, guy had a van, why would he be walking in front of her, and then trying to push her inside her front door?
anyway, if I sound paranoid, it's because we went through the Mickey Shunick in LA case, and then this woman tells this scary story about her bike. And from Bloomington, where it seems there are more than a few killers on the loose.
I don't want to ruin everybody's fun and get people busted, but I wish there was a way to get it across to these young people that they aren't really safe in these bar districts and then leaving alone. Maybe that can change but for right now, no.
In Lauren's case, during the first 4 years, 5N POIs incl.
JW seemed most likely, but then several other attempted abductions, Hannah's murder and then a rape/abduction survivor with her killer's DNA match.
This DM stalked Hannah and snatched her right under her friends and even her roommate's noses!
DM was very much around during Lauren's disappearance and the MO would be the exact same.
Hannah's roommate heard the door open and not close and then Hannah was gone. IMO, JW might have been laying in wait for Lauren but then she never appeared.
I know that corner. If Lauren had rounded the corner, DM could have grabbed her and pulled her into the walkway right there that had led to the very dark back parking lot of 5N, into a vehicle and then right out to Morton St, then 11th, and out the west way. JW, however, could have been waiting right down the street a little by the bisecting e/w alley that led to the 10th and C alley they favored as a walkway to SW. to me it makes sense that he would wait there
instead of standing on the corner, lots of cops. also, as MaHouston has posted, Laurens keys were found.
After all this time, I'm wondering, was there a key or a key fob for Lauren's car?
I know there was a key card but iirc someone turned in keys that she had left during the altercation?

Did investigators ever check the sides of highways just across the border to Ohio?

 

[Beemoji]

Did investigators ever check the sides of highways just across the border to Ohio?

Did investigators ever check the sides of highways just across the border to Ohio?

Reason I ask:

I'm an Aussie, and I was staying in Bloomington Indiana in 2015. I'd never heard about this case before or anything but I was told something in my time there. (Fore warning, I was slightly intoxicated it's so long ago now I don't remember names so much)

Anyway, there was one night I'd been out had some drinks, met a girl, and when we were back at her place on the verge of crashing for the night, she mentioned that at some point she was with Lauren's boyfriend/his close friend (I believe the way she said it was it was an old scholars night/party or however it is done in the states)
Basically they had been smashed drunk and this guy (boyfriend or close friend of) got really emotional and had a drunken rant about how he had accidentally caused her death freaked out to see up the idea of calling authorities but decided to get rid of her and dumped her along one of the highways going to Ohio.

Note:
For the life of me I can't remember her name.
I never gave it much thought because I honestly didn't know who she was talking about (I'd never heard of Lauren's case and we weren't talking about anything close to the issue when she brought it up, basically I was looking at her like 'huh')
She did mention the name of who she heard this from but I don't remember, I feel like I remember her telling me it was indeed Lauren's boyfriend, but being drunk and so long ago I honestly can't tell you for sure)
When she accidentally she did say how, they met up that night (she went to his or he knew where she was) they had an argument and he shook her or something along those lines and she just died.
She never really said that he mentioned exactly where he dumped her just that it was along a highway near Ohio and it was down a road off the highway or just off the highway. I believe the reason she brought it up was while I was in Bloomington another girl went missing, but I don't know.

Honestly like I said, it was a long while ago so the small details I don't remember (I wish I did) I was tipsy so I wasn't paying complete attention, I also basically had no idea what she was talking about.
She was upset about it and did seem sincere, but I don't know. Pure speculation I suppose, I have no idea if any of the time lines work or anything, just stumbled upon this website and Lauren's page figured I'd say something I guess.

Cheers,
B