IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #8

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
She is small....they could have easily put her inside a trash bag, cooler or even a large couch and carried her out the next day. She may still be hidden in the building. The friends know and one will talk. I actually think one is probably already talking some.
 
There is no ambiguity -- the truck has nothing do with it. The ambiguity -- and downright messing up of fact by police -- is eveident. They originally claimed that the two photos were from the same camera. The said it blew the stop sign and was on Morton and 11th. I think the bottom line is they don't worry about the facts -- they just wanted to get the photo of the truck out and they really weren't watching what they were saying.

I disagree. LE's goal is not to provide clear and accurate reporting to the public, their goal is to solve the crime. In order to do that they'll release whatever helps them smoke out those responsible. Think about how much the POIs are sweating right now. Everything LE puts out could possibly lead to their downfall. One slip from the POIs and LE gets an advantage. Of course LE is going to put out conflicting information.
 
I wonder what HT is tweeting about or any of the others?
 
Has anyone here participated in the searches? And if so, has HT been present at the searches. Why is she not "present" in general. I would say that we would all be in the forefront of the searches if the same thing happened to someone close to each of us... Do you suppose she's also been told not to participate? And why would that be if she's not a POI?

I participate in searches daily. It is impossible to know who searches, as there are hundreds of people involved and several registration sheets involved daily. There were three searches leaving from Smallwood until later this past week (those searches ceased altogether), some of those registered upwards of 200 searchers. The deep woods / rough terrain groups now leaving from McNutt are sent out as soon as an adequate number of searchers arrive to form a search party (so, whereas the Smallwood searches left at 11:30, 2:00 and 5:30, there is no set schedule like this at McNutt). There is no way to tell who searches unless one has access to the registration sheets. Apart from that, we all have certain information we will not disclose.
 
I disagree. LE's goal is not to provide clear and accurate reporting to the public, their goal is to solve the crime. In order to do that they'll release whatever helps them smoke out those responsible. Think about how much the POIs are sweating right now. Everything LE puts out could possibly lead to their downfall. One slip from the POIs and LE gets an advantage. Of course LE is going to put out conflicting information.

I couldn't agree more. These tactics are often used to throw off the POIs and make them EXTREMELY uncomfortable because of the unpredictability of the direction of LE's investigation. There have been enough of these cases (unfortunately) where this approach has been used by LE to smoke out the people who know something. AND - I find it interesting that BPD has gone from daily pressers to Mon/WEd/Fri. Since there is not any daily information, it can cause even more concern for those that DO know something. Psychologically it will be more difficult for POIs to go 48 hours between pressers as opposed to 24 hours....
 
To deny that things are different nowadays is to be totally removed from reality. The fact is, today's 21 yr. old, especially coming from an affluent background, tends to be less mature and independent than a 21 yr. old 25 yrs. ago.

A little bit off topic ... sorry

Blanket statements like this make me squirm. As a 30 year old who comes from an afluent background I can tell you I work very hard, having worked full time throughout my 20s and having 8 years worth of degrees. I have never touched drugs or alcohol and volunteer for the local humane society and put in 15 hours a week at my church as a volunteer.

I think 'kids' nowadays live in very difficult economic circumstances, they CANT work their way through school the way people could 30 years ago, the way my parents did, families require 2 people to be working for the same purchasing power that one person could bring in the 60's. Labeling people as less mature and independent is a little off the mark from my perspective. I think they are discouraged and overwhelmed.

Just my opinion - sorry again if this is off course. Just have to get my :twocents: in ;)
 
Hi all,

I've only been following this case for the last day or so but have read through all your posts. I feel so bad for Lauren's family. Just thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents.

First, having grown up similiar and had a similiar college life to Lauren, nothing about her night really jumps out as me and ridiculous or leading up to a disapearance. It sounds like a typical college night where she drank a little too much, walked around barefoot, left her cellphone, and had some drama. The kind of night we've all had a few of in college and usually wake up the next day with a headache and pull the pillow over our head as we slowly recall the ridiculous details.

Not having all that much info I think there are a few possibilities what happened to her.

1) Least likely - I think it's possible, but unlikely, that she ODed. I say unlikely because I have unfortunately had to take more than one person to the hospital for partying too much. Someone also died at my college from alcohol posioning related to frat hazing. People don't just keel over and die. They vomit, a lot, they empty their bowels, etc. There would be evidence if this had happened to her in someone's apartment. Also, even though you are aware you may face criminal liability if someone ODs, everyone I knows gut reaction is to seek help for the person dying, not to cover up the crime. I also think they would have panicked and there would have been numerous phone calls, a lot of noise, etc. etc. It just seems unlikely to me that a couple of college kids watched a girl die and knew how to quietly and quickly remove any evidence. Not impossible of course, I just don't think this is what happened.

2) I think it's possible the boyfriend is involved. It seems obvious she had a crush on CR and was probably going to hook up with him that night. He very likely knew about this from his frat brothers. He probably called her phone and she obviously wasn't answering because she had left it in the bar. Is this enough to send him into such a jealous rage that he finds her and kills her? We can't say based on what we know, but it wouldn't be the first time it happened.

3) I think a stranger abduction is possible. I don't think it was someone driving around looking for a blonde college student to abduct, but I think it's possible she stumbled out of JR's apartment and this truck just happened to see her at the exact wrong time and it was a crime of opportunity. I also think it's possible the owner of the truck was a stranger who happened upon her earlier in the night (at the bar, or walking through campus) and was waiting for her to come out of that apartment building. I don't think the white truck is related to a college student, because I've never met a college student who advertising their company on the side of their pick up truck. JMO.

Also, the first time I saw that truck picture I knew almost nothing about the case and I was like "Well, the girl is sitting in the back of the truck, so I'm pretty sure it's involved" Not saying it's definitely a person, but it sure looks like the truck was empty on the first pass and somone was sitting there on the second pass. (To me it actually looks like a blonde girl in a white Tshirt with her back against the window and a guy in a black Tshirt with his arm across her chest kissing her.) Could of course be nothing, but that's what I first saw when I didn't know what I was looking at.

I think when one has a heart condition to begin with, it is possible to just keel over and die. JMO
 
Apart from that, we all have certain information we will not disclose.

I would hope that there are many that do have information, and are not going to disclose it. This is exactly what will help bring information from the POIs because THEY don't know what the searchers/LE actually DO know.

And thank you LTL for being there daily when those of us far away cannot....
 
Case won't open up until the girl roommate tells more than she has so far.
 
I disagree. LE's goal is not to provide clear and accurate reporting to the public, their goal is to solve the crime. In order to do that they'll release whatever helps them smoke out those responsible. Think about how much the POIs are sweating right now. Everything LE puts out could possibly lead to their downfall. One slip from the POIs and LE gets an advantage. Of course LE is going to put out conflicting information.

Very smart post. Like the vehicle. They didn't put that out so that the public would be informed. The put it out to get specific results (which they did".
 
I'm not sure. She left MB's place, I'm not sure he knew where she was headed, and I'm not sure JR knew where she had come from just prior to arriving at his place.

I think a lot of these comings and goings were put together much after the fact, and those LS encountered all night long didn't know the whole timeline until it was constructed much later.

Didn't come from MB's attorney, but from CR's attorney:

CR's attorney, Carl Salzmann, told Fox59 News his client has no memory of the fight but was told that Spierer walked him home and turned him over to his roommate MB. Salzmann said Beth claims he put CR to bed while Spierer asked him if he wanted to party. Salzmann said when MB demured, Spierer left CR's apartment to visit JR, a mutual friend, two doors down.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-surv...spierer-last-spotted-20110612,0,7227876.story

IMO, between the call from JR's cell phone to DR at 4:15, and the likelihood that MB was going to place LS with JR, JR had no choice but to place LS leaving his place at about 4:30. That doesn't mean I believe that LS left his place at 4:30 AM. But, it does appear that he places himself as the last to see her.
 
I'll be quite shocked if JW is involved in LS's disappearance. Personally, I don't have a problem with either his hiring of an attorney nor returning home. His actions could have been predicated upon HT's withholding of info from him (where and with whom LS actually was-as female roommates and good GFs might do for one another when other males are involved), as well as HT's not responding to possible calls/texts from him (JW) that morning because she knew who and where LS had gone that morning.

Epip, I am inclined to agree with you. Didn't he graduate, by the way? And does anyone know when graduation was? His father showed up June 4, but was that pre-arranged?

He may know something, however. Bad news travels fast. In my scenario no one intentionally "harmed" her. She OD'd or her heart gave out.

As far as the phone call, it isn't quite easy to text "the girl you brought here just died"

My biggest question is why anyone would dispose of the human body - though that's been dealt with in this thread. Yet in my heart I can not comprehend that young scholars would have such disregard for a companion's body; not when my neighbors day after day sifted through all kinds of trash in a Staten Island dump hoping against hope to find the tiniest bone fragment from a 911 victim.
 
I'm back to thinking it's JW. Here are the things that are sticking out about him and the impression it all is making on me. (I reserve the right to change my mind another few hundred times though).
HT - she felt the need to defend him saying that LS was the love of his life, etc it seemed like she was going just a little too overboard to defend him
One of his other friend (or friends) felt the need to publicly vouch that JW had gotten no calls or texts at all that night after the altercation. Seems strange, or again like HT, trying too hard to "clear him".
Unnamed person who had altercation with CR was friend of JW, AND ! LE has always downplayed that whole altercation aspect! To the point that the family early on was trying to completely deny any mention if it on their part - LE wanted that hush-hush?
Messy timeline by the other group of friends, but not factually impossible. We know that if LS was walking back on College, rather than the alley, that there were 2 blocks with no cameras to see her.
The parents consistently leaving the impression that someone closest to LS had info. Parents raved about JW very early on and then seemed to back off. (IIRC)

So, it seems to me that the friends are all feeling early enormous pressure on JW and coming to his defense. We also know someone was cleared by lie detector, and it seems very possible that they were asked by LE NOT to disclose that - I can't explain myself well, but I think that LE suspects JW and is intentionally leaving it muddy, so as to give him enough room to hang himself with. If just one person in the whole CR gang was cleared, it pretty much solidifies most of the story. Especially if it were JR - if JR was the one who passed the test, then JW would be sure to be the focus or a stranger. And that fits with the LE focus as far as I can see - they took the truck very seriously since it fit the JR timeline fine, but aren't taking the 3:38 suspect seriously enough to release a sketch that was rumored to be made, since this suspect doesn't fit the JR timeline at all.
I apologize if this is garbled... my brain is a little foggy today..
All I'm trying to say is that it seems that everyone seems to be going out of their way to make JW think he's not the primary suspect, but he actually is, and the family is trying to coax him to come forward on his own without pointing fingers. It seems too much like some kind of planned tactical maneuver to me.
 
All i'm trying to say is that it seems that everyone seems to be going out of their way to make jw think he's not the primary suspect, but he actually is, and the family is trying to coax him to come forward on his own without pointing fingers. It seems too much like some kind of planned tactical maneuver to me.

Excellent observation. Thank You!
 
I'm back to thinking it's JW. Here are the things that are sticking out about him and the impression it all is making on me. (I reserve the right to change my mind another few hundred times though).
HT - she felt the need to defend him saying that LS was the love of his life, etc it seemed like she was going just a little too overboard to defend him
One of his other friend (or friends) felt the need to publicly vouch that JW had gotten no calls or texts at all that night after the altercation. Seems strange, or again like HT, trying too hard to "clear him".
Unnamed person who had altercation with CR was friend of JW, AND ! LE has always downplayed that whole altercation aspect! To the point that the family early on was trying to completely deny any mention if it on their part - LE wanted that hush-hush?
Messy timeline by the other group of friends, but not factually impossible. We know that if LS was walking back on College, rather than the alley, that there were 2 blocks with no cameras to see her.
The parents consistently leaving the impression that someone closest to LS had info. Parents raved about JW very early on and then seemed to back off. (IIRC)

So, it seems to me that the friends are all feeling early enormous pressure on JW and coming to his defense. We also know someone was cleared by lie detector, and it seems very possible that they were asked by LE NOT to disclose that - I can't explain myself well, but I think that LE suspects JW and is intentionally leaving it muddy, so as to give him enough room to hang himself with. If just one person in the whole CR gang was cleared, it pretty much solidifies most of the story. Especially if it were JR - if JR was the one who passed the test, then JW would be sure to be the focus or a stranger. And that fits with the LE focus as far as I can see - they took the truck very seriously since it fit the JR timeline fine, but aren't taking the 3:38 suspect seriously enough to release a sketch that was rumored to be made, since this suspect doesn't fit the JR timeline at all.
I apologize if this is garbled... my brain is a little foggy today..
All I'm trying to say is that it seems that everyone seems to be going out of their way to make JW think he's not the primary suspect, but he actually is, and the family is trying to coax him to come forward on his own without pointing fingers. It seems too much like some kind of planned tactical maneuver to me.

I politely disagree. JW would have been "caught" by now if it was him. How would he have known she was at JR's. If he knew or suspected anything it would have been that LS was at CRs not JR so unless he was sitting in his car outside of the apartment (which i bet cell records could validate that) and not trying to text or call LS, he would have been looking for CR. Remember that JW's friends saw CR with LS earlier not JR and JR was last to see her. JW's friends would have told JW that she was with CR.
 
I wonder what HT is tweeting about or any of the others?

http://twitter.com/#!/HadarTamir

Are we allowed to post Twitter accounts? I know LS's friend AR has an open account that she regularly updates. She's pretty open about partying, especially for someone underage, and even tweets about how she celebrated 4/20 on 4/20...

If this kind of information isn't allowed on this forum, mods, please erase! :)
 
Asking about witness who saw L at 4:30AM, -Le says we are not in a position to say that it did not happen, trying to figure out what DID happen


Sounds to me like a diplomatic way of saying, 'we don't believe the line of bull that JR is trying to feed us' :rolleyes: MOO
 
You're allowed to disagree, I don't take it personally! But since she was there, in CR and JR's building for quite some time, plenty of time for JW to have heard (from a live person, not a phone call) and I do think it is possible that he was sitting somewhere in a car with his eyes on the building waiting for her to exit. That whole area is camera-less... And, it's just a theory...
 
For the sightings of Lauren in the alley, and for the truck, the times LE is relaying on are based on the video clock that keeps time of when the video is taken. If the video clock was not set accurately, I suppose these times could also be off, although I don't recall LE saying the times on the video are inaccurate.

I do remember LE emphasizing the times may not be correct.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
100
Guests online
2,567
Total visitors
2,667

Forum statistics

Threads
603,609
Messages
18,159,267
Members
231,785
Latest member
dirtbag
Back
Top