IN - Nancy Dyer for child endangerment, Indianapolis, 2006

[kgeaux]

I was listenig to Nancy Grace last night, and although Nancy was "Nancy" and perfectly willing to publically trash this mother, her panelists did offer a flip side to the coin.

Apparently this mom has very recently fled from an abusive relationship and only just moved into the apartment. Moving is very difficult. And moving alone with two toddlers, one of whom seems to be a precocious (spelled wrong?) escape artist has to have just taken all the energy this woman has.

PLUS she may be suffering from depression, don't you think? Her past circumstances make depession VERY probable. Her deep sleep, her inability to finish unpacking the boxes, her messy home, all symptoms of depression. She did TRY to keep the boy indoors, she shoved boxes up by the door to try to prevent his escape.

Honestly, she looked more depressed than strung out to me. I am not so willing to trash this young mother as some of you are. Geez, I guess there are just a couple of moms on this forum who have made made mistakes while raising their children....and I'm one of them.

Let's get the rest of the story before we jump down this mother's throat.

 

[Kymistry35]

I can see how the woman would be depressed and overwhelmed. Caring for two toddlers is very stressful. I have four young children and I have been a single mother living in a battered women's shelters and out of hotels while we were running from my abuser so I could sympathize but none of my children ever had to walk around with a diaper like that. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for that...it would have taken her all of 2 minutes to change the diaper.

 

[lizzybeth]

I looked at the mother's myspace pics and am I understanding correctly that she has three other kids? There was a picture of two girls (they looked about ten and twelve) and then one of a boy who when the picture was taken about a year ago looked to be about thirteen (there was a comment about being a teenager). Where are these kids? Hopefully with someone that takes better care of them then their mother takes care of her other two.

 

[Amraann]

The MySpace also has a comment from one of her friends that says she is in fact suffering from depression.
She was in the process of waiting for one of the fathers to come help her.
(According to the comment) The father was on his way up there to help her with the children.
So this women acknowledged that she was overwelhemed and was trying to seek help in order to ensure what is best for her children.

 

[curious1]

Curious, if a person is using Meth it only takes three days to clear your system for a urine test. You might pass info on to your family, just in case they have any future reason to think your cousin relapsed. (This is for a UA not a hair test.) Im so glad you've got family that will help her and hold her accountable.

Thanks for the info. They keep a pretty close eye on her. She holds down a job and since her dad is retired he takes her to and from. She only goes to work and to social functions that are usually family related or have to do with her kids school. She doesn't seem to mind it too much, but then she is a bit out of it plus I think she likes the idea of not having to make choices for herself. I think she realizes she is just a 'weak' individual and without her parents running interference she would fall right back into her past lifestyle. Hopefully she will learn to stand on her own two feet, but as long as her parents live until her kids are grown and out of the house they will be okay. After that, she can do what she wants and not affect the kids too much, they are both smart and I am sure they will go to college and move out in the next 10 years and will do just fine without her. It's sad, but that's life.

 

[curious1]

Looking back over the posts I guess we do sometimes sit in judgement of others. I realize this is just one newspaper article and I also realize just how wrong the press can get things either innocently or on purpose to sell papers so I am now going to withhold judgement until I read more about this.:silenced:

 

[JanetElaine]

The mom has been charged with neglect:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241319,00.html

Amraann and jubie, thank you for the welcome.

 

[Amraann]

Thank you for the updatd link.


Since she was seeking help for her problems I am saddend that she is being charged.
I can't imagine the child had been diagnosed with autism for to long since most often symptoms do not occur until around the age of 19- 24 months.
It is said that parents who have a child diagnosed with cancer often fair better then those with a child diagnoised with autism.

 

[Mr. E]

I didn't see where it said she was seeking help.

I can empathize with her situation, but I can't excuse what I saw on the video.

1) The mother was asleep and didn't know that her son was out. Okay, I can understand that the autism makes him able to get out easily and also fearless. So maybe some way of alarming the mother when the door opens? If she can't afford an alarm, some bells? An alarm clock so she knows to be up before 9:00 am. There was another child in the home who wasn't autistic; the mother should have been attending to that child, too.

2) There was food on the floor. Okay, maybe the toddler had gotten into food from the fridge or garbage, but again, why was the mother asleep? Why didn't she wake up when she heard her daughter rummaging for food? Why didn't the daughter indicate in some way (crying or asking) that she wanted food? Was it because she had been left alone to fend for herself before, and knew that the only way she'd eat would be to rummage?

3) The state of the toddler's diaper. To me, there is just no excuse for that. That is neglect. I know that you can't always change a diaper right away; diapers leak, but that diaper was almost to the floor. And where was the mom? Asleep.

4) The poop on the walls. Inexcusable. However it got there, by the autistic boy or his sister, the mother should have been awake to clean it up.

I know that she is probably very overwhelmed. Aside from the fact that the boy is autistic, they are two babies who need constant care, and that would be overwhelming for anybody. But that doesn't mean that those kids didn't have the right to be clean and safe in their own home. Everybody makes mistakes, but there was just too much going on in that apartment to make me think that it was just a case of an overwhelmed single mother.

 

[Amraann]

I didn't see where it said she was seeking help.

I can empathize with her situation, but I can't excuse what I saw on the video.

1) The mother was asleep and didn't know that her son was out. Okay, I can understand that the autism makes him able to get out easily and also fearless. So maybe some way of alarming the mother when the door opens? If she can't afford an alarm, some bells? An alarm clock so she knows to be up before 9:00 am. There was another child in the home who wasn't autistic; the mother should have been attending to that child, too.

2) There was food on the floor. Okay, maybe the toddler had gotten into food from the fridge or garbage, but again, why was the mother asleep? Why didn't she wake up when she heard her daughter rummaging for food? Why didn't the daughter indicate in some way (crying or asking) that she wanted food? Was it because she had been left alone to fend for herself before, and knew that the only way she'd eat would be to rummage?

3) The state of the toddler's diaper. To me, there is just no excuse for that. That is neglect. I know that you can't always change a diaper right away; diapers leak, but that diaper was almost to the floor. And where was the mom? Asleep.

4) The poop on the walls. Inexcusable. However it got there, by the autistic boy or his sister, the mother should have been awake to clean it up.

I know that she is probably very overwhelmed. Aside from the fact that the boy is autistic, they are two babies who need constant care, and that would be overwhelming for anybody. But that doesn't mean that those kids didn't have the right to be clean and safe in their own home. Everybody makes mistakes, but there was just too much going on in that apartment to make me think that it was just a case of an overwhelmed single mother.

According to a Myspace posting by her friend she had sought help.
I am not yet ready to judge her for sleeping.
It is likely that her autistic son had been up all night, maybe she had finally gotten him to lay down and dozed her self.
That type of lack of sleep schedule could easily cause her to sleep through subtle noises.
It is possible that the two year simply had created that diaper in the night and or the mess on the wall. Also it should be considered that if the two year old pulled down a plate of food or took it out of the fridge she could have also spilled water or some other liquid on the floor and sat in it which would saturate a diaper and make it look like she had not been changed.
It was stated in the article that she had just moved to the apt. Possibly she had not had the oppurtunity to install or create some type of safety device?

 

[Swoodski]

Read the "detox" info on her web site. There's been a drug issue with this girl whether she's using now or not. There's alot on her site to make anyone think she has had drug use history.

Im not condemming her for any drug use she may have participated in, I just know that if anyone gets too involved with Meth they have alot of similiar characteristics discussed on this thread.

Leaving the kids out of it for now, It may be a blessing in disquise that this girl has been arrested.

If she's using and depressed, she can detox and possibly get counseling while in custody.

Whether or not the drugs are involved, she had definately hit a rock bottom with her life. She's young and hopefully this terrible situation will help her find a new start in the future. Its going to be alot of work, so l will keep her in my prayers too.

 

[Swoodski]

Just a little info on way I feel the way I do about the possible drug use. Im a Social Worker in here in my area Meth is being used so much. AND by every class, race or gender.

Ive personally seen two close friends who looked like soccer moms and NO ONE knew they were using. Their lives changed in just 2 years. One had her child taken by CPS and the other is serving 3 years in prison.

 

[mssheila]

I'm not kidding when I say that this was my worst nightmare... I used to have bad dreams about my kids getting out of the house in the night, or something- and me not hearing them. I have two boys, not quite 11 months apart.. and they were VERY skilled at opening doors, cupboards, etc... from a really young age. So here's what I did. I locked the house down. I put things over the doorknobs that even adults had trouble using, I used chain locks up very high, I secured cupboards with dangerous things in them. I did everything I could think of, and when a new "situation" presented itself, I handled it in a manner where they just could not get into the dangerous area.

I did all that after being diagnosed with severe post-partum depression. But even though I was severely depressed, I knew that I had to keep my boys safe. I had NO support, no family- it was me and hubby (who works 60 hours a week- 6 days a week).

If this woman is depressed, I'm sorry to hear that, but I was depressed, and I NEVER saw a diaper like that on my kids.

 

[Nocgirl]

I am glad she is being charged. Bottom line is, she has a hidtory of this, and if she cannot take car eof her kids and they are at risk if they stay with her, she should have put them in the temp. custody of somebody who can care for them.

Who are the kids staying with? Where is dad?

Mothers often get the upper hand in court and this woman is clear proof she is not the better parent just because she is the mother.

 

[Amraann]

According the the friends MySpace post the father was on his way from Florida to help her with the kids because she was aware of how depressed she was.

Also as I stated above it is possible that the 2 Yo spilled something on the floor and sat in it thereby causing the diaper to look like it had not been changed.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm with your thoughts on this one, Amraann. I've never seen a more defeated, overwhelmed looking woman in my life.

I have immeasurable resources - a strong constitution, no mental illness, financial security, a supportive involved partner and sweet kids with no disabilities - and I find raising children to be super tough. I can't imagine what it must feel like for this woman.

When I read about this case, I feel nothing but compassion for this family and a there-but-for-the-grace-of-God gratitude for myself.

 

[southerngirl]

Read the "detox" info on her web site. There's been a drug issue with this girl whether she's using now or not. There's alot on her site to make anyone think she has had drug use history.

Im not condemming her for any drug use she may have participated in, I just know that if anyone gets too involved with Meth they have alot of similiar characteristics discussed on this thread.

Leaving the kids out of it for now, It may be a blessing in disquise that this girl has been arrested.

If she's using and depressed, she can detox and possibly get counseling while in custody.

Whether or not the drugs are involved, she had definately hit a rock bottom with her life. She's young and hopefully this terrible situation will help her find a new start in the future. Its going to be alot of work, so l will keep her in my prayers too.

Her "detox" blog entry is about staying away from a relationship partner for 60 days to remove the addiction and to focus on strengthening the self and focusing on other positive aspects of life. It wasn't about detoxing from drugs.

Did anyone else catch that she is pregnant? Apparently by her boyfriend Richie who's been playing her and now wants to only be friends (she says she's been his *advertiser censored*). She alternates between terminating her parental rights of the child she's carrying and letting Richie raise his son versus letting Richie walk away and seeing his son when the boy is 18. She seems defeated, betrayed and hurt by men (haven't we all been, though?), and self-absorbed. At 30 she's stuck in that adolescent stage where she's pondering relationships ad nausem. With children I think you have to grow up quick and stop all the philosophical nonsense and take care of your children and the business of life. That said, I remember how utterly exhausted I was in the early months of pregnancy. Add in an autistic toddler and another toddler sibling close in age. Factor in poor coping skills, depression, apathy, lack of support, and being in a new city. Mix in personality weaknesses and alcohol use (admitted) and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

[kgeaux]

According the the friends MySpace post the father was on his way from Florida to help her with the kids because she was aware of how depressed she was.

Also as I stated above it is possible that the 2 Yo spilled something on the floor and sat in it thereby causing the diaper to look like it had not been changed.

I am SO in agreement with you, Amraann. She was aware she had a problem, she was seeking help, and in the meantime, she had done what she could to try to prevent the little one from escaping.

I absolutely pity this mother. It looks as though she was doing all she could and help just did not arrive fast enough.

If anyone here has ever been dirt poor while your children were young, then I bet you know something I know. Cheap diapers are not of the same quality that nicer ones are.....it does not take much to make a cheap poor quality diaper sag all the way to the knees and beyond.

 

[Amraann]

I do not want to give the impression that its ok these children live in such deplorable conditions.

I do not think that at all. I do think she asked for help and was in the process of trying to seek it.
I also think that the newspaper could easily make the situation seem much worse then it really was to those not familiar with having a disabled child.
I am not convinced that this was just bad timing.
I also think the story should illustrate the lacking resources for those with disabled children.
I know much has been made that she had the money for online access and time to blog on MySpace but I think everyone needs some down time.
I am not even saying hand the kids right back to her....
I am saying there is a difference between criminal neglect and abuse and someone who if given the help needed could be a good mother.
Like you said Southcitymom even in normal supportive circumstances parenting can be a challenge.
I am just not so sure that justice is served by charging this women with a felony.
Maybe that time, energy and money would be better placed helping her.

Even many pediatricians are of little help in helping parents with autistic children.

 

[Amraann]

I am SO in agreement with you, Amraann. She was aware she had a problem, she was seeking help, and in the meantime, she had done what she could to try to prevent the little one from escaping.

I absolutely pity this mother. It looks as though she was doing all she could and help just did not arrive fast enough.

If anyone here has ever been dirt poor while your children were young, then I bet you know something I know. Cheap diapers are not of the same quality that nicer ones are.....it does not take much to make a cheap poor quality diaper sag all the way to the knees and beyond.

Your post reminded me of something else as well..
Having been young with young children and rather broke I recall trying to use up the last of the package of diapers even though my quickly growing toddler may had slightly outgrown it.
I do not mean size wise persay but I do recall a point when the diaper may have fit but was filled to quickly by the growing all the time eating toddler that within a matter of days it seemed that the next size up was required.
But darn it if I did not want to use up the last of the package.