IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

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^^^^^^I have known of some pretty extreme churches that schedule things every night of the week so the congregation's free time and entire social life revolves around the church and its members. This one seems like one of those.

---Do we know for sure someone saw Jaime and the kids in the morning outside? Because now I wonder if something awful happened at 4:30 in the morning and dad either left them there to take care of later or put them where they were before work?

The 7-7:30 time is what LE is reporting so I'm assuming they have a good witness or video maybe. I wonder if that apartment complex has outside video or any other places on the route she may have walked to the park.
 
I wish this pastor would just shut the hell up. He comes across as being much more interested in protecting his own interests and promoting himself than he does as an advocate for justice.
 
Pastor says he does not think faith had anything to do with the deaths. LE says there is no proof that Mr. Clutter was present during the incident.

http://www.courier-journal.com/view...tor-Faith-no-factor-death-New-Albany-mom-kids

Video of father, does not believe that his wife killed the kids and then herself.

http://www.abc57.com/video/Father-doesnt-believe-wife-killed-kids-then-self-198913161.html

Well, of course the pastor doesn't think religion has anything to do with it! What else is he going to say? And I agree that he's getting too involved in this whole thing, seems like it could be a way for him to promote his church ... why else would he keep talking to the media?

As for the father - again, of course he doesn't believe his wife could do that. I don't think anyone in this sitation would say, "Yeah, I saw that coming." It seems the police have ruled him out - should have been easy to confirm whether he was at work that day.

I just can't think of any other plausible scenario than murder/suicide, unfortunately (assuming that the father is cleared). If this family was attacked by someone, I think it's highly likely that A) They would have more injuries instead of just drowning, and/or B) at least one of them would have gotten away, screamed, or caused enough commotion that someone nearby would have noticed. This was in broad daylight, and this isn't a remote area! Really sad situation.
 
The 7-7:30 time is what LE is reporting so I'm assuming they have a good witness or video maybe. I wonder if that apartment complex has outside video or any other places on the route she may have walked to the park.

Nope, Sheffield does not have security cameras on the property and there are no cameras on the way to the park. In fact, there isn't alot from the apartment to the park...however, a little small local resturant/bar on the left side...you would pass walking the few blocks...down to the park. I am confused though about the timing and why the 10yr. old would be awake at 4 something in the morning..."heard" his parents and wanted to say bye to his dad. What time does the father start work...I wonder. With the time change, it is pitch dark outside...even in the morning...till about 7:30-45 at least. Walking down to the park early, early morning doesn't seem right, it's just a two lane road..one way going and one way coming, still not sure there are even sidewalks down to the park.
 
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OMG the Hooten case and now this! I can see why you are scared. I had one of the mods start the Hooten thread for me here on WS's because when I read the story, I just knew there would be more and even possibly some missing or unidentified associated with him. If you haven't seen the thread yet, come over and take a look and add your input if your feel up to it. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200691"]17 yr old girl murdered & sexually assaulted in her home, RSO Richard Hooten arrested - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Yeah, tell me about it. I lived in the same building as she did at Cambridge Square. To say I haven't thought about it and how that could have been me, is an understatement. I moved out 1 week before this happened. In his confession tape where I made the mistake of watching it and getting it all "stuck" in my head...he said she was a pretty young girl sitting outside and he started talking to her. She knew him a little bit before as his girlfriend lived downstairs. I used to sit outside on my front porch and well.....I've seen this guy at least once in the last month before this happened. The apartment & Sheffield Square where Jamie lived do criminal history checks and do not allow registered sex offenders in. However, when someone else lets them live their unit to stay (such as the girlfriend of Wooten) the managers have no idea who is on-site. Gives me the chills, cute little girl, so sad. I won't hijack this thread about Wooten but yeah, 2 crimes (murders) both in apartment complex's I live(d) in...too much for an already high anxiety person to process! :(
 
......

OMG the Hooten case and now this! I can see why you are scared. I had one of the mods start the Hooten thread for me here on WS's because when I read the story, I just knew there would be more and even possibly some missing or unidentified associated with him. If you haven't seen the thread yet, come over and take a look and add your input if your feel up to it. 17 yr old girl murdered & sexually assaulted in her home, RSO Richard Hooten arrested - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Yeah, tell me about it. I lived in the same building as she did at Cambridge Square. To say I haven't thought about it and how that could have been me, is an understatement. I moved out 1 week before this happened. In his confession tape where I made the mistake of watching it and getting it all "stuck" in my head...he said she was a pretty young girl sitting outside and he started talking to her. She knew him a little bit before as his girlfriend lived downstairs. I used to sit outside on my front porch and well.....I've seen this guy at least once in the last month before this happened. The apartment & Sheffield Square where Jamie lived do criminal history checks and do not allow registered sex offenders in. However, when someone else lets them live their unit to stay (such as the girlfriend of Wooten) the managers have no idea who is on-site. Gives me the chills, cute little girl, so sad. I won't hijack this thread about Wooten but yeah, 2 crimes (murders) both in apartment complex's I live(d) in...too much for an already high anxiety person to process! :(

That would be a huge trigger for me. I hope you have someone you can talk to. I have a therapist that I see for tune ups and if something happens and my anxiety goes sky high, I will make appointments to see her more often.

It's a shame there aren't more video cameras in the area.
 
Well, of course the pastor doesn't think religion has anything to do with it! What else is he going to say? And I agree that he's getting too involved in this whole thing, seems like it could be a way for him to promote his church ... why else would he keep talking to the media?

I don't know what to think about the pastor's involvement in this. Did he approach the media or did the media approach him? Is he speaking to try and prevent rumors from starting and spreading? I think it would be hard for someone to convert to this religion if you hadn't had any past experience in a similar faith. Women are expected to be subservient, not cut their hair and not wear pants or jewelry. Speaking in tongues would be something that might freak a lot of people out. Whatever faith a person chooses, if it helps them and doesn't cause harm to them or others, then I have no problem with it.

I imagine some churches of this faith as well as other faiths are more lenient than others. I see in the one photo of the mother it appears she may have a ring on and a bracelet or watch. If she wore a watch I wonder if she had it on that day and if it quit working from being in the water. If so, that could be one clue that could help to narrow down TOD.

As for the father - again, of course he doesn't believe his wife could do that. I don't think anyone in this sitation would say, "Yeah, I saw that coming." It seems the police have ruled him out - should have been easy to confirm whether he was at work that day.

I agree but am not certain LE has ruled him out.

I just can't think of any other plausible scenario than murder/suicide, unfortunately (assuming that the father is cleared). If this family was attacked by someone, I think it's highly likely that A) They would have more injuries instead of just drowning, and/or B) at least one of them would have gotten away, screamed, or caused enough commotion that someone nearby would have noticed. This was in broad daylight, and this isn't a remote area! Really sad situation.

I agree. People always find it odd when a child is abducted from a location that is high traffic. It only takes seconds to abduct a child though. Killing this family in a public park and the extra time it would take to undress them would be pretty risky with so many homes nearby.

IF the crime was staged this is one bizarre scenario I can think of:

Some one did this in the home, or the family was picked up by someone or they walked to someones house. Something related to religion could have been a lure by a perp. The family is offered a drink and drugged. The children are then transported and dumped in the river while still sedated but alive. They drown. Since the mothers COD hasn't been released then it's hard to comment on how she died but I can't think of anything that wouldn't leave signs of trauma, other than being drugged/poisoned and/or smothered/drowned.

The perp would then have to transport them to the location and stage the scene with the clothing without being seen. While this would not be impossible, the odds are less likely compared to a murder/suicide.
 
Ok, something isn't making any sense. The 911 caller said the woman looks beat up and cut and I heard the female in the background mention blood. So why would LE say they saw no visible trauma if this is true?
 
The person may have been mistaken, quite probably having no experience of identifying trauma on a body in water.
 
The person may have been mistaken, quite probably having no experience of identifying trauma on a body in water.

I'm guessing there was debris on the body as the creek is quite shallow AND I'm guessing the 911 caller may not have gotten too close.

I don't find anything strange about the 911 call and it's not matching up with what LE described.
 
Clarification request, please: We do or we don't have a specific statement by LE and/or other tangible evidence that the mom and kids were seen that morning after 7:00 a.m.? TIA!
 
Wow, I know 911 dispatchers are supposed to be calm and detached and whatnot, but that guy sounded especially deadpan about 3 dead bodies! Lots of long pauses ... like he didn't know what to say or ask the caller ... kind of had me shaking my head. Then the caller said that if they were real people they were definitely dead, and the dispatcher asks "Are they moving around?" ... ?

My husband works in EMS in the same county as this, I'll have to play this for him just to see what he thinks. I haven't listened to a lot of 911 calls ...
 
Clarification request, please: We do or we don't have a specific statement by LE and/or other tangible evidence that the mom and kids were seen that morning after 7:00 a.m.? TIA!

I've found the video of the press conference that LE gave to be very informative. It confirms they were seen that morning.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130315/NEWS01/303150079

eta; oops! The guy in the video is the prosecutor. I really shouldn't refer to him as LE. BTW, I really like this guy. He has the serial killer Gibson he's dealing with right now also. I have to kind of laugh at the way he tip toes around the reporters when they bring up religion.
 
Oftentimes, dispatchers are getting patrol/ EMS/ FD rolling while taking the call. And some have scripts that use for certain situations- I'm guessing this dispatcher was mentally trying to 'align' this situation with a known script?
 

Thanks, but I don't know to what post you're directing me. I connect through Tapatalk using my phone. It only shows a post number if the post hasn't been thanked. Pretty much every post so far has been thanked, so no post numbers appear.
 

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