IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[BeginnersLuck]

From reading the history about L&D, it was started by a woman who is now president. I didn't see any religious affiliated likes on their page. There are Women's Enterprise likes. Of course there could always be someone that is affiliated with the church that works there.

 

[WhitneyLea]

How large and far-reaching is this church community within New Albany?

** specifically this Pentecostal church. (This question may be too difficult to answer, and maybe I shouldn't even be asking)

Not sure this means anything, but just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. I've spent pretty much my whole life in this area, but never heard of this particular church until this case. As a non-Pentecostal, I wouldn't say it has a huge presence in the community. But that's just my perception.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I can't access FB at work. However, if someone wants to look at the L&D Mail Masters FB page...you will then find the owner. If you look around on the owner and/or "likes" of the company page...anyone find Greater Faith relation or owner attendance? They do hire a lot. It is hard to keep people at a lower type rate for the type of work.

BBM: If this is the case, then maybe it was just a easy place to get a job close to the church.

 

[althea33161]

How large and far-reaching is this church community within New Albany?

** specifically this Pentecostal church. (This question may be too difficult to answer, and maybe I shouldn't even be asking)

...and that is the million $$ question....:what:

 

[althea33161]

How large and far-reaching is this church community within New Albany?

** specifically this Pentecostal church. (This question may be too difficult to answer, and maybe I shouldn't even be asking)

Hello poster Reader...the following post by poster colette will hopely answer a couple of your questions.






Althea,i am a private person. Heck,i do not post on Facebook. But,i have posted here since 2005 and will vouch for Websleuths absolute respect for your information.

I of course respect your decision on whether or not to register but you can be sure that your information is protected and your privacy guarded by the people on this website.

I appreciate your knowledge in nursing and geographic insight on this tragic story.

MOO

thank u. i have never posred anything, anywhere, until now. i will learn to ust 'IMO' on any thing subjective or speculative. unfortunately, having been exposed to this penticostal-ness for over 50, i am set in my perceptions of what is right & wrong. i am honest to a fault, & that isolates those who find "truth' offensive; as most times it is. this is what breeds the kinds of things that happened to JC/kids=silence! and again, THIS RELIGION IS SHAME-BASED; THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH UNBELIVERS;SEND THIER KIDS TO SCHOOL W/ UNBEILIVERS....i had no idea that this was as far-reaching as it is appearing to be, but it makes perfect sence if u knew how these people protect their own.IMO-IMO?

 

[althea33161]

On the link I posted there are several listed in Louisville also.

aha! could be even more far-reaching...many shadey, narrow-minded zelots that are judges, polititions,etc?IMOjust thinking here. google the history of New Albany ,In.IMO?...notorious for crooked polititions/cops, unfortunately this penticostal belief is very prevelent throughout this area, so if this case goes this direction, there will never be another mention of it.IMO

 

[lindugh]

I find it so strange that the family moved to Indiana in order for mc to find employment. The position doesn't seem to be skilled labor, so why leave jc family for a position he could have found in washington.

Why didn't jc's family show for their daughters funeral. MC is 10 yrs Jamie's senior. Seems jc became pregnant and gave birth when michael was unemployed and they were selling the family home. Was this an unplanned pregnancy.

 

[michmi]

I find it so strange that the family moved to Indiana in order for mc to find employment. The position doesn't seem to be skilled labor, so why leave jc family for a position he could have found in washington.

Why didn't jc's family show for their daughters funeral. MC is 10 yrs Jamie's senior. Seems jc became pregnant and gave birth when michael was unemployed and they were selling the family home. Was this an unplanned pregnancy.

I think any children would be viewed as a "gift from God" so the planning or unplanned aspect probably doesn't even enter into it unless JC was perhaps wanting to become more independent (I have nothing to base that on).

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://thedailyworld.com/sections/n...ldren-drown-mother’s-cause-death-unknown.html

Smith remembered the family’s recent joy when they discovered they were expecting baby Katelyn.

“They prayed for a baby girl and they got one,” Smith said with a smile.

 

[MsFacetious]

I think any children would be viewed as a "gift from God" so the planning or unplanned aspect probably doesn't even enter into it unless JC was perhaps wanting to become more independent (I have nothing to base that on).

Would that be like the Duggars... who don't believe in birth control?
Did they simply have issues conceiving the 2nd baby?
Did it take them 9 years to get pregnant with her?
That would only add to the tragedy here... lease:

 

[althea33161]

i found a video on youtube to be very informative (Pamela Meyers: How to Spot a Liar) i learned a lot; took notes, then reviewed video of MC & specifically NICHOLS...IMO, the video says there are universal, involuntary signs that everyone exhibits while being deceptive...with several high profile examples....what struck me was=liars shake their head no while lying....interesting, IMO. i am sorry i do not know how to copy the vid onto here. oh yeah, "talking calm & without emotion during horrific events" the vid is about 18min. long, but well worth the time. view the vid & then Nichols, MC, even Hendricks...IMO

 

[time]

I find it so strange that the family moved to Indiana in order for mc to find employment. The position doesn't seem to be skilled labor, so why leave jc family for a position he could have found in washington.

Why didn't jc's family show for their daughters funeral. MC is 10 yrs Jamie's senior. Seems jc became pregnant and gave birth when michael was unemployed and they were selling the family home. Was this an unplanned pregnancy.

I agree with ya! I find it strange. I also find it strange they would move to be close to this church when her father was a minister. And, if I have my facts straight, I find it strange they would move where she doesn't have family but he does (his sister/aunt/someone close at least lives in the state if not in the same area right now). Maybe she wanted to go, but it's typically difficult for the main caregiver/parent to NOT live near any of their own relatives when they have a baby (and another child) to care for. There's something more to this story, maybe not nefarious, but something is missing. I'm not sure how they could have visited Inidana an average of twice a year on their past income, let alone during his unemployment (for 15-19 months before they moved?).

And, as you mention, not a great time to get pregnant... but strange it was so many years inbetween the two kids and then they get pregnant during really hard times and move away just after the girl is born??

 

[Reader]

I find it so strange that the family moved to Indiana in order for mc to find employment. The position doesn't seem to be skilled labor, so why leave jc family for a position he could have found in washington.

Why didn't jc's family show for their daughters funeral. MC is 10 yrs Jamie's senior. Seems jc became pregnant and gave birth when michael was unemployed and they were selling the family home. Was this an unplanned pregnancy.

Welcome to the thread and WS, lindugh!

:welcome5:

Good questions...It all seems so backwards to me too....they had a nice home her parents helped them fix up, she had a new baby, 3 months old at the time, she had to leave her familiar home town, church and friends and family who could help when needed. Why was it so urgent to move to some place where she would be isolated?

 

[Reader]

I'm wondering about this statement also:

Part of the family's motivation for moving to Indiana, where members of Michael's family also lives, was their desire to be part of Greater Faith Church, Nichols said. They would pray together in the sanctuary daily and usually attended two services on Sundays.

http://heraldbulletin.com/breakingnews/x765738233/Official-Two-children-drowned-in-Indiana-creek

Daily? when did they find time for this together...I assume they did not go before 5am when Mr. Clutter had to leave for work...so was it after work, after dinner? Were other people also at church or just them? Was the pastor there? Why was this necessary? Wasn't Thurs. and twice on Sun. enough?

I'm also wondering did he work everyday of the week? What were his days off? Most people who work 12 hour shifts get extra time off, don't they?
People at the apartments who knew them said they had not seen her since Sunday. Makes me wonder....IMO

 

[JaimeSommers]

Welcome to the thread and WS, lindugh!

:welcome5:

Good questions...It all seems so backwards to me too....they had a nice home her parents helped them fix up, she had a new baby, 3 months old at the time, she had to leave her familiar home town, church and friends and family who could help when needed. Why was it so urgent to move to some place where she would be isolated?

The parts BBM are *precisely* why it was so urgent, imo. How could he maintain control of the relationship with all of these influences around to "threaten" his position as head of the household? MOO

My BIL isolated my sister quite successfully. Moved her 1,500 miles away. When she tried to visit without him for a week, he cheated on her. When we tried to visit her, he'd drink a bottle of Jack Daniels and rant and rave and trot out his arsenal of weapons. When we'd call, he'd interrupt her constantly in the background. In their case, they aren't tied to a specific church -- though he does fancy himself a new age prophet.

Is my BIL crazy? Oh yes. "Crazy" like a fox.

 

[michmi]

The parts BBM are *precisely* why it was so urgent, imo. How could he maintain control of the relationship with all of these influences around to "threaten" his position as head of the household? MOO

My BIL isolated my sister quite successfully. Moved her 1,500 miles away. When she tried to visit without him for a week, he cheated on her. When we tried to visit her, he'd drink a bottle of Jack Daniels and rant and rave and trot out his arsenal of weapons. When we'd call, he'd interrupt her constantly in the background. In their case, they aren't tied to a specific church -- though he does fancy himself a new age prophet.

Is my BIL crazy? Oh yes. "Crazy" like a fox.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Too much support for her where they were.

 

[txsvicki]

I've read a lot of the thread but not all. The very first post or two mentioned odd thing happening around the apartment. If the lady was telling the husband this, she could have been imagining things. I haven't read anything too weird about the religious beliefs but have known Pentecostals and many non denominalists, plus others who believe in end times teaching. Maybe she believed the pope end time prophecy thing and was disappointed that it is not the end, if she was psychotic.

 

[fred&edna]

The family was part of the "United Pentecostal Church" and supernatural "gifts" (which seems to include, but is not limited to, speaking in tongues and healing) are fundamental to this faction/denomination of Pentecostals.

Unusual or odd things happening could be interpreted by United Pentecostals as signs of something holy (good) or unholy (evil). As others have said... it would be very interesting to know exactly what these odd and unusual things might have been, AND how they (the family and their pastor) felt about them.

http://www.upci.org/about-us/beliefs

 

[txsvicki]

Imo, if she went from living in a home to having to live in an apartment with more noise, neighbors, and strangers then that alone could be depressing and stressful enough to throw an unstable woman over the edge, especially if having financial poverty. I do remember though, the mormon woman who thought she had to kill herself so her husband could have a new celestial baby and wife, and another woman who was convinced she'd die due to dreams of her husband's mistress aka a 'prophetess'. Those husbands used their religions to try and drive the women to kill themselves.

 

[MsFacetious]

There is ZERO evidence at this point that she was even experiencing depression, much less psychosis.
Just wanted to say that before a big argument started over the subject. :twocents: