IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[The Cheese]

The windchill that day made it even colder.

I definitely don't think they were playing in the water.

They were seen at 7/7:30am. I think it's a possibility that they were out for a walk, that Jaime became overly cold, and hypothermia set in, and that then, being disoriented, removed her and the kids' clothes, got in or fell in the water, and all drowned.

Just speculating a scenario that would account for the unusual circumstances. :twocents:

 

[time]

The windchill that day made it even colder.

I definitely don't think they were playing in the water.

They were seen at 7/7:30am. I think it's a possibility that they were out for a walk, that Jaime became overly cold, and hypothermia set in, and that then, being disoriented, removed her and the kids' clothes, got in or fell in the water, and all drowned.

Just speculating a scenario that would account for the unusual circumstances. :twocents:

No offense, but I'm not even sure I am buying that anyone saw them at 7/7:30. It's still somewhat dark outside.

It looks like the temp was between 27-38 degrees that day, wind was 13-35 mph ... so some windchill.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...New+Albany&req_state=IN&req_statename=Indiana

I grew up in the Midwest... they probably did not suffer hypothermia and then decide to take their coats and clothes off - it doesn't seem cold enough for that scenario, but possibly if they were drugged first? It's not likely at all that they went on a walk nor played in the water on purpose at that time of the morning and that this all resulted in a naked drowning death of three people. I just can't see that.

I am not buying that they walked there unless there is some proof and I'd love to hear the interview with the witness(es) who claim they saw them at that time of the morning (where did they claim they saw them and were they dressed for Winter).

 

[The Cheese]

time,

Yes, that's one of the websites I used to find the temps and weather on that day.

I do believe LE that they confirmed seeing Jaime and the children at 7/7:30, but I respect your opinion. Not offended at all.

Here are the temps and windchill for that timeframe. With windchill, temp was 18/19.

6:53 AM Temp 32.0 °F With windchill 19.5 °F
7:53 AM Temp 30.0 °F With windchill 18.3 °F

Not trying to convince anyone. Just my current thoughts. :twocents:

 

[Reader]

No offense, but I'm not even sure I am buying that anyone saw them at 7/7:30. It's still somewhat dark outside.

It looks like the temp was between 27-38 degrees that day, wind was 13-35 mph ... so some windchill.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...New+Albany&req_state=IN&req_statename=Indiana

I grew up in the Midwest... they probably did not suffer hypothermia and then decide to take their coats and clothes off - it doesn't seem cold enough for that scenario, but possibly if they were drugged first? It's not likely at all that they went on a walk nor played in the water on purpose at that time of the morning and that this all resulted in a naked drowning death of three people. I just can't see that.

I am not buying that they walked there unless there is some proof and I'd love to hear the interview with the witness(es) who claim they saw them at that time of the morning (where did they claim they saw them and were they dressed for Winter).

Agree, and remember that Jaime was raised in WA state, wouldn't that northwest area be as cold or colder as the Midwest? Everyone that has spoken of her described her as a wonderful mother....I just can't reconcile that with her taking the children out for a walk in that kind of weather on her own. Either she was lured out there to meet someone or she and the children were forced to go out there. If she went on her own and they became cold, the apartment was not that far away, she could have turned back and been home in 30 min. Nothing I've seen suggested by LE or the coroner makes sense as to why? Not questioning the drowning but why and how?

Also agree about the witness...the LE should provide all that information to the public if they want us and her family to accept this story that she was seen that morning. I've checked the New Albany PD site and they seem to be well organized and give good reports on their cases, training and community work. It's not like they have a bunch of other death cases to work on...they could spend more time on this case and be sure of what happened. I will certainly be reading the report for March to see what Detective Wall says about this case.

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/police-department

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/February-2013.pdf

I also still want to know where MC worked, how far from the apt. and if he came home for lunch? What verification did they have from his workplace that he was there all day?

Just have lots of unanswered questions and will take a lot of proof for me to accept this as a murder/suicide.

Not trying to offend anybody else's thinking or information, just my personal feeling and thinking about this case, IMO.

 

[time]

time,

Yes, that's one of the websites I used to find the temps and weather on that day.

I do believe LE that they confirmed seeing Jaime and the children at 7/7:30, but I respect your opinion. Not offended at all.

Here are the temps and windchill for that timeframe. With windchill, temp was 18/19.

6:53 AM Temp 32.0 °F With windchill 19.5 °F
7:53 AM Temp 30.0 °F With windchill 18.3 °F

Not trying to convince anyone. Just my current thoughts. :twocents:

Thank you ... I was trying to find the windchill and temp around that time.

I just don't get it because I have lived in places where I have been out in sub zero weather - yeah, it gets really cold when you have subzero and high winds....like 20-70 below with the wind chill factor. I'm scratching my head though at 19.5 °F and hypothermia.... not that it can't happen given various conditions, but there are a lot of 'buts' that would come after that.

I also can't imagine someone saw them out walking that time of the morning and didn't question why they were out there, unless they thought they were walking to school or somewhere that the time makes sense, somewhere they would have to be. She had a car, right, so it doesn't make sense. If someone knew her, it doesn't seem it would make sense to them.

I dont' know why they aren't releasing more about that witness and what they said - who was it, where did they see them, what were they wearing, and did they think it was strange, did they wave at them, did they offer them a ride, etc. Evidently, someone might have seen them either close to their house, thought they were going into a business (what would be open?), thought they looked bundled up, knew why they were out there, were at their house, or they went to someone's house or something. ACK!

 

[mrsu]

I don't know that anything will convince me that that woman walked to that park with her kids and drowned in knee high water.

 

[time]

Agree, and remember that Jaime was raised in WA state, wouldn't that northwest area be as cold or colder as the Midwest? Everyone that has spoken of her described her as a wonderful mother....I just can't reconcile that with her taking the children out for a walk in that kind of weather on her own. Either she was lured out there to meet someone or she and the children were forced to go out there. If she went on her own and they became cold, the apartment was not that far away, she could have turned back and been home in 30 min. Nothing I've seen suggested by LE or the coroner makes sense as to why? Not questioning the drowning but why and how?

Also agree about the witness...the LE should provide all that information to the public if they want us and her family to accept this story that she was seen that morning. I've checked the New Albany PD site and they seem to be well organized and give good reports on their cases, training and community work. It's not like they have a bunch of other death cases to work on...they could spend more time on this case and be sure of what happened. I will certainly be reading the report for March to see what Detective Wall says about this case.

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/police-department

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/February-2013.pdf

I also still want to know where MC worked, how far from the apt. and if he came home for lunch? What verification did they have from his workplace that he was there all day?

Just have lots of unanswered questions and will take a lot of proof for me to accept this as a murder/suicide.

Not trying to offend anybody else's thinking or information, just my personal feeling and thinking about this case, IMO.

Well, I don't know if it would be as cold or colder than Southern Indiana, but it does get as cold or colder than the day they were out for sure.

http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_Aberdeen20Nne_Aberdeen_WA_January.html

BBM - agree! And, with the rest of your post.

 

[chinacat67]

I don't know that anything will convince me that that woman walked to that park with her kids and drowned in knee high water.

Accidentally? I'm in the same place. On purpose? I can totally be convinced.

 

[mrsu]

Accidentally? I'm in the same place. On purpose? I can totally be convinced.

Even accidentally. I just don't see it. If she really wanted to, she could have drowned those kids in the bathtub and taken a bottle of pills in her home. I just don't see the significance or connection to doing this in public in a filthy stream with no guarantee the actions could be carried out. If that were the case, why not a larger river or body of water?

I realize (if she did this) she was probably not thinking straight, but my gut is just telling me something different.

Is there a way for the ME to tell if she had held them under water? Obviously the baby could drown very easily, but the older boy, she would have to had held him under or drugged him too.

Why won't they tell us who saw them at 7:30 and where?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Agree, and remember that Jaime was raised in WA state, wouldn't that northwest area be as cold or colder as the Midwest? Everyone that has spoken of her described her as a wonderful mother....I just can't reconcile that with her taking the children out for a walk in that kind of weather on her own. Either she was lured out there to meet someone or she and the children were forced to go out there. If she went on her own and they became cold, the apartment was not that far away, she could have turned back and been home in 30 min. Nothing I've seen suggested by LE or the coroner makes sense as to why? Not questioning the drowning but why and how?

Also agree about the witness...the LE should provide all that information to the public if they want us and her family to accept this story that she was seen that morning. I've checked the New Albany PD site and they seem to be well organized and give good reports on their cases, training and community work. It's not like they have a bunch of other death cases to work on...they could spend more time on this case and be sure of what happened. I will certainly be reading the report for March to see what Detective Wall says about this case.

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/police-department

http://www.newalbanyohio.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/February-2013.pdf

I also still want to know where MC worked, how far from the apt. and if he came home for lunch? What verification did they have from his workplace that he was there all day?

Just have lots of unanswered questions and will take a lot of proof for me to accept this as a murder/suicide.

Not trying to offend anybody else's thinking or information, just my personal feeling and thinking about this case, IMO.

Something just didn't seem right when I looked at the police department links. It took me a while then I realized it was New Albany OH instead of New Albany, IN

This is all I could find for New Albany IN PD

http://www.cityofnewalbany.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28

Here is the county Sheriff:

http://fcsdin.homestead.com/

 

[time]

Even accidentally. I just don't see it. If she really wanted to, she could have drowned those kids in the bathtub and taken a bottle of pills in her home. I just don't see the significance or connection to doing this in public in a filthy stream with no guarantee the actions could be carried out. If that were the case, why not a larger river or body of water?

I realize (if she did this) she was probably not thinking straight, but my gut is just telling me something different.

Is there a way for the ME to tell if she had held them under water? Obviously the baby could drown very easily, but the older boy, she would have to had held him under or drugged him too.

Why won't they tell us who saw them at 7:30 and where?

Well said... and, why take their clothes off? They would have to have been alive, I think, before going in the water or there wouldn't be water in their lungs? You'd have to imagine that she gave drugs to the kids at the right time (if not in a drink then did she carry water and pills?), then took the clothes off both of them and put them in the water to drown. And, she would have taken drugs already herself then took her clothes off, at some point throws stuff around, and then gets in the water herself lying face down near death?

"Henderson said clothing was found scattered around the creek bed and a harness used to carry a baby along with a Bible were found hanging from a tree."

newsandtribune.com/x620875761/Prosecutor-2-children-drowned

"...said the three were naked when they were found, and their clothes were nearby. "

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...ek-Binford-Park-New-Albany-911-homicide-audio

Has anyone ever specifically said there were coats with that clothing?

 

[Reader]

Something just didn't seem right when I looked at the police department links. It took me a while then I realized it was New Albany OH instead of New Albany, IN

This is all I could find for New Albany IN PD

http://www.cityofnewalbany.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28

Here is the county Sheriff:

http://fcsdin.homestead.com/

Thanks for the correction, BeginnersLuck!

 

[Reader]

S. Ind. police still unsure how woman, 2 kids died

http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-s-ind...ow-woman-2-kids-died-20130404,0,1696752.story

NEW ALBANY, Ind. (AP) — Southern Indiana authorities investigating the deaths of a woman and her two children found dead last month in a creek say they still haven't determined what happened to the trio.

New Albany police spokesman Maj. Keith Whitlow said Wednesday investigators don't have all the information they need to "to draw any real conclusions" in the deaths.......more at link......


Well, at least they are still investigating it seems....

 

[seattlechiquita]

Good to know they are giving this case the detailed attention it deserves.

 

[CALIORBUST]

The term "botched investigation" is hanging in the air.

Pardon my language...but NO ****!!!
Botched is what it feels like..just as an outsider wanting answers. Im sure the LE is doing everything to the best of their ability to figure this out...right? What is going on now? I read the post a few back from The Cheese about something that this may be ruled the same COD for her also, drowning, I mean no more specifics from the coroner? End up being undetermined? There has got to be some more answers...somewhere. I wonder where Michael Clutter is living right now.

I saw moving van pull out from their apartment area the other day. Not sure if him specifically moving out or what but it was parked right in front of that building. I'm kind of mad now this morning thinking the next breaking news alert we get is well...the COD is drowning also for her, water in lungs and they rule it a suicide that she did it to the kids then herself. Ugh...I don't by that. What the hell do I know...but I so don't friggin by that!

 

[txsvicki]

Does baby harness mean a sling type thing to carry a child on the back? A child aged 2 seems kind of big to be carried that way instead of a stroller. I wonder how the mom was transporting the baby when they were last seen at 7:30, which seems so early to be out in the cold with kids if not necessary.

 

[Vabrownid1]

All of this is just bizarre!

 

[time]

Does baby harness mean a sling type thing to carry a child on the back? A child aged 2 seems kind of big to be carried that way instead of a stroller. I wonder how the mom was transporting the baby when they were last seen at 7:30, which seems so early to be out in the cold with kids if not necessary.

I think the baby was 6 months old, but that still seems kind of old to carry in a sling?

 

[michmi]

Pardon my language...but NO ****!!!
Botched is what it feels like..just as an outsider wanting answers. Im sure the LE is doing everything to the best of their ability to figure this out...right? What is going on now? I read the post a few back from The Cheese about something that this may be ruled the same COD for her also, drowning, I mean no more specifics from the coroner? End up being undetermined? There has got to be some more answers...somewhere. I wonder where Michael Clutter is living right now.

I saw moving van pull out from their apartment area the other day. Not sure if him specifically moving out or what but it was parked right in front of that building. I'm kind of mad now this morning thinking the next breaking news alert we get is well...the COD is drowning also for her, water in lungs and they rule it a suicide that she did it to the kids then herself. Ugh...I don't by that. What the hell do I know...but I so don't friggin by that!

I wonder if dad got his security deposit back like he asked. Ugh. I have a feeling he's just going to move on and wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's married again within a year.

I don't think he was having an affair, I just think that his marriage and/or family wasn't meeting all his requirements.

 

[Reader]

I wonder if dad got his security deposit back like he asked. Ugh. I have a feeling he's just going to move on and wouldn't surprise me in the least if he's married again within a year.

I don't think he was having an affair, I just think that his marriage and/or family wasn't meeting all his requirements.

Maybe that was why they were going to the church everyday....marriage counseling by the pastor?

I would hate to think she was convinced by anyone else that she did not meet certain 'qualifications' for being a good wife and mother. Is that why Clutter stated over and over that she was and that she loved him?