GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #1

[LaborDayRN]

I've been holding on to this thought and have decided to put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. One of the mods referred to burking, in which someone can be asphyxiated without leaving marks.
Kelly Rogers has said on fb that she can put small animals to sleep and got her 'stepdaughter' to sleep after a tantrum. She was apparently with Shaylyn's father at that time. In the photo of what looks to be a sound asleep kitten, she says this is one of her talents.
I can't help but wonder what her methods were. Could it involve holding her hand over the nose and mouth until the 'subject' becomes unconscious and stays sleeping? Perhaps she took it too far with Shaylyn?
It seems that Kelly was at that house in the early morning hours. Could Kyle have helped her out by disposing of the baby's body?
This is only a thought. BTW, Kelly is fb friends with Adam.

I've been wondering the same thing............

 

[Damarna]

I've been holding on to this thought and have decided to put it out there and let the chips fall where they may. One of the mods referred to burking, in which someone can be asphyxiated without leaving marks.
Kelly Rogers has said on fb that she can put small animals to sleep and got her 'stepdaughter' to sleep after a tantrum. She was apparently with Shaylyn's father at that time. In the photo of what looks to be a sound asleep kitten, she says this is one of her talents.
I can't help but wonder what her methods were. Could it involve holding her hand over the nose and mouth until the 'subject' becomes unconscious and stays sleeping? Perhaps she took it too far with Shaylyn?
It seems that Kelly was at that house in the early morning hours. Could Kyle have helped her out by disposing of the baby's body?
This is only a thought. BTW, Kelly is fb friends with Adam.

Interesting. I suspect you aren't alone with that line of thinking. Made my blood run cold when I read that.

 

[IMH]

As an autism mom, I read with interest what you wrote, and I am so happy that your daughter is now safe with you and your husband. And also as someone who worked in the legal system for many years, and experienced first hand custody issues with my first husband, who was an alcoholic, I totally understand how these cases can cost some serious money, and no matter how long they take to resolve, we feel like they are taking forever when we are in the middle of them. I do think what is confusing sometimes is how the court system treats custody. "Physical custody" means which parent physically keeps the child. Usually these are joint arrangements, which may or may not be 50/50, about where the child spends time with each parent. "Legal custody" is also typically joint, and covers decisions for the child related to healthcare, education, and religion, and can be treated separately from physical custody. Usually both physical and legal custody are shared between the two parents. In my own experience for the state I was in when divorcing my alcoholic husband, the court had no problem granting me sole physical custody --my child lived only with me, and dad only got to see her when I was present. However, as it was explained to me by my attorney, I would not be able to take legal custody away from dad unless dad was literally living on the street, or in prison. Stripping someone of legal custody of their child is taken as a very serious matter by the courts. Since my ex was a "high functioning" alcoholic, that wasn't our situation. My attorney at the time also told me that a parent can not choose to legally give up their "parental rights" over their child either. This is because those rights do not flow from parent to child, the rights actually flow from child to parent. In other words, the child is legally entitled to the benefits and support afforded by both parents, so one parent does not have the option to "opt out" of their obligations to that child (such as child support). In your case, it sounds like your husband was willing and able to legally adopt your daughter, and that gave the court the ability to strip legal and physical custody away from bio dad?

With all of the adults in Shaylyn's dad's home that evening (and every evening), it's astonishing that they are claiming ignorance of what happened to this poor sweet baby. Interestingly, the police have only charged the guy they arrested with knowing about and disposing of an already deceased body. He has not been charged with kidnapping or murder, so this story is still evolving....

 

[SuzDuJour]

Because the cause of death was released so quickly, I assumed it wasn't done by a hand over the mouth and nose (which would be difficult to ascertain). I thought there may have been residue, possibly by duct tape. Or possibly by a bag taped around the head. When LE said they hadn't found the murder weapon, that solidified my thinking.

 

[flourish]

Okay I'm just gonna say it. I brag about my ability to get children and animals to sleep. I taught preschool for 14 years and have over 15 nieces and nephews who are now having babies. I'm a nap master. My techniques include changing my breathing patterns to mimic those of falling asleep, and an insane amount of patience. I can stroke foreheads and eyebrows with a firm deftness and have back-pat timing down to a science. I once got my eldest grand niece, at age 2, to take her nap at an amusement park/water park.

All with very maternal methods, completely lacking anything nefarious.

Just had to get that out there.

 

[tiffay01]

Okay I'm just gonna say it. I brag about my ability to get children and animals to sleep. I taught preschool for 14 years and have over 15 nieces and nephews who are now having babies. I'm a nap master. My techniques include changing my breathing patterns to mimic those of falling asleep, and an insane amount of patience. I can stroke foreheads and eyebrows with a firm deftness and have back-pat timing down to a science. I once got my eldest grand niece, at age 2, to take her nap at an amusement park/water park.

All with very maternal methods, completely lacking anything nefarious.

Just had to get that out there.

Ok, those are all great methods and I agree it's something you do pick up along the way as a teacher myself I have learned a few. However, I can say I haven't ever bragged about it on Facebook, and I don't think her methods mimic ours just my take on it. I could be very wrong and will gladly eat my words if I am.

 

[PeggyAnnMcKay]

I keep checking, checking, checking thinking that any time now someone else will be arrested. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that house...

I just hope that Shaylyn didn't suffer.

 

[tlcya]

the trouble with trying to analyse social media is that context is everything and when viewed through the prism of a murder the most innocent of posts can be viewed as nefarious. We won't know if any of the POIs posts are relevant until we see an arrest for the murder.

That is one of the reasons I am so looking forward to the release of the charging docs for KP on Monday. I am hopeful they reveal more about exactly how LE came to find Shaylyn and what circumstances are alleged to document Kyle as the person who placed her there.

 

[DatelineFan]

Okay I'm just gonna say it. I brag about my ability to get children and animals to sleep. I taught preschool for 14 years and have over 15 nieces and nephews who are now having babies. I'm a nap master. My techniques include changing my breathing patterns to mimic those of falling asleep, and an insane amount of patience. I can stroke foreheads and eyebrows with a firm deftness and have back-pat timing down to a science. I once got my eldest grand niece, at age 2, to take her nap at an amusement park/water park.

All with very maternal methods, completely lacking anything nefarious.

Just had to get that out there.

I'm glad you said this! I don't know what happened in that house, but I feel like it's a stretch that her Facebook post could indicate that she may have suffocated the baby.

I have a magic touch with getting babies and toddlers to sleep, too. Many friends call me for advice. I've never done anything remotely harmful to help them sleep, it's just a skill I've had since I was very young.

 

[flourish]

I just can't imagine that if I were a serial kitten killer, that I'd be posting public pics of sleeping kittens on my facebook page, unless I was deliberately trying to get attention a la Luka Magnotta (sp?).

Like, I'm getting the idea folks are thinking this chick is bragging about repeated murder attempts of babies and kittens? As odd as these people seem to be, this breath-snuffing kitten/baby idea isn't at the top of my list of relevant details. IDK

 

[Jackeee]

I was specifically referring to the practice of 'burking'. "Murder as by suffocation so as to leave no or few marks of violence."
I had never heard of it until I read it here. I'm hopeless at linking but it can be found at dictionary.com.
This was just a different point of view and I thought it was interesting.

 

[Jackeee]

I just can't imagine that if I were a serial kitten killer, that I'd be posting public pics of sleeping kittens on my facebook page, unless I was deliberately trying to get attention a la Luka Magnotta (sp?).

Like, I'm getting the idea folks are thinking this chick is bragging about repeated murder attempts of babies and kittens? As odd as these people seem to be, this breath-snuffing kitten/baby idea isn't at the top of my list of relevant details. IDK

I don't understand your response. I said nothing about murder attempts on kittens or babies. <modsnip>

 

[simba16]

I keep thinking of that maintenance man's comment that Shaylyn was treated like a dog. When I saw that comment I thought of that photo of Shaylyn sitting on the floor with grandma and a dog (with a t shirt on!) just on the other side. She seemed so disposable, like so many of these other young victims. I joined WS because of brutal beating death of precious baby Chance Walsh. I don't have any children, "only" 4 spoiled, adored pets. Children are so easily disposed of by some, just today another story on WS of a newborn found alive in a trash COMPACTER!

 

[pepelepolecat]

Okay I'm just gonna say it. I brag about my ability to get children and animals to sleep. I taught preschool for 14 years and have over 15 nieces and nephews who are now having babies. I'm a nap master. My techniques include changing my breathing patterns to mimic those of falling asleep, and an insane amount of patience. I can stroke foreheads and eyebrows with a firm deftness and have back-pat timing down to a science. I once got my eldest grand niece, at age 2, to take her nap at an amusement park/water park.

All with very maternal methods, completely lacking anything nefarious.

Just had to get that out there.

My mom also had a special touch when it came to getting babies to sleep. I don't know how she did it.

But I'll also agree that that particular post gave me the heebie jeebies -- maybe just in light of what did ultimately happen. But it struck me as creepy when I read it.

 

[flourish]

Burking is certainly a logical suspicion since we have been told the baby died from homicidal asphyxia. I think it's a stretch to take a facebook post about caretaking talents and jump to that being some sort of indictation of criminal activities culminating in the murder of someone else's baby in a house full of people. Like this woman is going to brag about how well she can get babies and kittens to go to sleep when she's really practicing stealing their breath for the day she strikes? I see several more viable suspects, I guess.

 

[BrownRice]

Okay I'm just gonna say it. I brag about my ability to get children and animals to sleep. I taught preschool for 14 years and have over 15 nieces and nephews who are now having babies. I'm a nap master. My techniques include changing my breathing patterns to mimic those of falling asleep, and an insane amount of patience. I can stroke foreheads and eyebrows with a firm deftness and have back-pat timing down to a science. I once got my eldest grand niece, at age 2, to take her nap at an amusement park/water park.

All with very maternal methods, completely lacking anything nefarious.

Just had to get that out there.

Do you do house visits?

 

[Midge Montana]

I just can't imagine that if I were a serial kitten killer, that I'd be posting public pics of sleeping kittens on my facebook page, unless I was deliberately trying to get attention a la Luka Magnotta (sp?).

Like, I'm getting the idea folks are thinking this chick is bragging about repeated murder attempts of babies and kittens? As odd as these people seem to be, this breath-snuffing kitten/baby idea isn't at the top of my list of relevant details. IDK

I'm the one who originally posted the link to that. The reason I did (and cleared it with a mod before I did) is because her comment on that post talked about her mentioning she put the child to sleep after another one of her tantrums. Just showing that child may have been hard to put down to sleep, which I wouldn't doubt in a house full of party/nonparty goers. Then Lo and behold it later came out that Shay had been murdered via asphyxiation. Could have been someone tried to get child to stop a bedtime tantrum and it went to far. We don't know if that was or wasn't the case. Brainstorming is what we do here.

 

[Paulas88]

Could KP have been crashed in the living room, and Shaylyn woke-up crying, so
he smothered her trying to get her to be quiet, then realized she was dead....
Could it be that simple?

 

[BrownRice]

Could KP have been crashed in the living room, and Shaylyn woke-up crying, so
he smothered her trying to get her to be quiet, then realized she was dead....
Could it be that simple?

That could easily be a scenario. Not like any of the other adults in that house had any sense of urgency towards her if she needed anything during the night. She was basically on her own out in the living room with an unlocked door to the outside.

 

[J4cknsal1y]

As an autism mom, I read with interest what you wrote, and I am so happy that your daughter is now safe with you and your husband. And also as someone who worked in the legal system for many years, and experienced first hand custody issues with my first husband, who was an alcoholic, I totally understand how these cases can cost some serious money, and no matter how long they take to resolve, we feel like they are taking forever when we are in the middle of them. I do think what is confusing sometimes is how the court system treats custody. "Physical custody" means which parent physically keeps the child. Usually these are joint arrangements, which may or may not be 50/50, about where the child spends time with each parent. "Legal custody" is also typically joint, and covers decisions for the child related to healthcare, education, and religion, and can be treated separately from physical custody. Usually both physical and legal custody are shared between the two parents. In my own experience for the state I was in when divorcing my alcoholic husband, the court had no problem granting me sole physical custody --my child lived only with me, and dad only got to see her when I was present. However, as it was explained to me by my attorney, I would not be able to take legal custody away from dad unless dad was literally living on the street, or in prison. Stripping someone of legal custody of their child is taken as a very serious matter by the courts. Since my ex was a "high functioning" alcoholic, that wasn't our situation. My attorney at the time also told me that a parent can not choose to legally give up their "parental rights" over their child either. This is because those rights do not flow from parent to child, the rights actually flow from child to parent. In other words, the child is legally entitled to the benefits and support afforded by both parents, so one parent does not have the option to "opt out" of their obligations to that child (such as child support). In your case, it sounds like your husband was willing and able to legally adopt your daughter, and that gave the court the ability to strip legal and physical custody away from bio dad?

With all of the adults in Shaylyn's dad's home that evening (and every evening), it's astonishing that they are claiming ignorance of what happened to this poor sweet baby. Interestingly, the police have only charged the guy they arrested with knowing about and disposing of an already deceased body. He has not been charged with kidnapping or murder, so this story is still evolving....

Thank you.
Yes, in WI at least, her bio father can give up rights willingly; referred to as a TPR (termination of parental rights) & this case it is voluntary. He would not be able to do this without a step parent adoption, & the TPR & step parent adoption forms are filed with the court as close to the same time as possible. The legal benefits children are entitled to is the reason that (as far as I've been told by my attorney) the TPR requires a step parent adoption so the child always will technically have 2 parents. If I was not married/my husband unwilling to adopt, the TPR for her bio would not be possible.