Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #81

[Arishia]

But I wouldn't think it would be attorney/client priveledge. The fact that she was sneaking messages out of jail gives her no privledges. It is now evidence. I think that if jurors had of asked about them ,JM would have objected. Because he is saving this littlle tidbit for closing arguments.

Depending on the question, it could have been objected to on foundation, maybe. I also wonder if more will come out about that, or if JM is putting the DT on notice about potential future testimony from someone, or about something, that can be related to the magazine messages. "Open that door and this is where we will go with it..." Just a thought. Not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination. :fence:

 

[MommyIN]

Having SERIOUS trouble occupying myself today! :banghead:

I just thought of something. We keep going over these jury questions, and the majority of folks (myself included) feel they are NOT supportive of Jodi. What I want to know, is what were the questions that were NOT allowed? This is driving me nuts! Based on the ones that were let in, what else do you think was asked that was disallowed? I know this is all speculation, but I'm curious!

 

[G&AMom]

I believe that to be true as well. TA uncovered or became aware of something JA did/or hid. It had to be really bad; much worse than slitting his tires or hacking into his email or Facebook account. Whatever it was, she was in total fear of being exposed by him. He had something on her and her carefully crafted facade was getting ready to crater. For an extreme narcissist with mental problems there is NOthing worse than being exposed as a total fraud. What was it? IMO, it was something to kill for.

Something from her secretive past? Didn't TA's friends say she never shared anything about her family and past, had no friends. And I don't believe for a moment that she ever invited him to visit her in Yreka. That's another one of her lies. She was never going to let him see that she lived in a hovel like a sloth.

I would dearly love to know what prompted those text messages. He refers to the crazy things (plural) that he was going to tell people about. He also talks about telling her family, in addition to everyone else, so to me that eliminate a lot of the things that might otherwise come to mind. If one of my children had been accused of tire slashing, I would be upset, point out that he was being an idiot, and that he deserved whatever legal consequences he got, but I wouldn't disown him. That's what I find so mysterious about the text messages. What had she done that even her parents would be upset about.

Anagrammy, in her earlier post, suggests that the mom & aunt are probably glad/grateful that somebody has finally put a stop to Jodi, and are under no illusion about her behavior. And yet THEY ARE THERE in the courtroom, they haven't cut her off from their lives. So what could she have done that Travis thought would be the last straw for them?

A minor point, but I didn't think her grandparents' house was a hovel. Not as nice as Travis' place to be sure, but it didn't look that bad to me. I've seen much, much worse.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yeah and on the day of execution! She gets the last word too if she chooses

Oh lord, that'll be another 18 page note! Can they ask a prisoner to have their last say in 25 words or less?

 

[OldCarGal]

We'll never know because the lawyers & the judge eliminated some of the juror questions. We don't know what those questions are or what the objections are, for the most part. We heard some of the objections, but iirc if both sides agreed to eliminate a question, it was eliminated.

I am hoping that the jurors are willing to discuss this trial after it is over. Maybe someone will ask them what questions were not allowed.

 

[Sweetiemom]

Having SERIOUS trouble occupying myself today! :banghead:

I just thought of something. We keep going over these jury questions, and the majority of folks (myself included) feel they are NOT supportive of Jodi. What I want to know, is what were the questions that were NOT allowed? This is driving me nuts! Based on the ones that were let in, what else do you think was asked that was disallowed? I know this is all speculation, but I'm curious!

I'm not sure, but maybe the questions left out were redundant?

 

[Colt46]

Hi Schuby,

I admit I am one of those who could believe TA had no idea she was there in the bathroom. I say this because Why would he put up with JA for some 13 hours that day.
> She supposedly arrived at 4:30 am--Surprise?
>They did not have sex until hours later (hard to believe with 2 sex crazed rabbits)
> Then she is ready to leave around 3PM-but stops in the office to return CD's where they again have sex
>Then they move into the bedroom for more sex and videos?
>Then he accommodates her wishes to take "Calvin Klein"- like pictures of him in the shower--Did they even remotely remind you of CK??

All this time is being given to someone he has just called a sociopath.

We only have her to believe, and that's not working for me. For all we know she could have left and came back in while he was in the shower, and used a Zoom lens. All she wanted was to get him in a vulnerable position. He had to take a shower at some point.

The picture of his face with the flash could
have been when he first sees her and is told to sit on the floor. Let's face it that was not a Calvin Klein pose.

Is that believable?

Agree with all of the above. Adding to your list is the scenario that Travis might have had plans that night with one of his girlfriends. He thought Jodi was gone, he jumped in the shower, and in a couple of minutes the psycho killer appears from out of nowhere wielding a gun.

I thought it was kinda strange that nothing was mentioned about breakfast, lunch or dinner during the 15 hour siege. Jodi mentioned a banana, but that was all. I would have been starving by that time. Did Travis invite Jodi to stay for dinner or go out for a bite? Surely, she would have cancelled Ryan Burns for a chance to have dinner and spend another nite with Travis. I suppose we will never know what plans, if any, Travis had that night. Unless, that is, Juan has a surprise comiing.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I've got a 'feeeeeling' that she stole from Travis and that's what he was going to expose her for, I've also got a 'feeeeeling' she stole from her parents while she was working at their restaurants. She obviously had no issue stealing from her grandparents, so I think stealing had been one of her ongoing behaviours for a long time.

Exposure for that was a threat. It was her secondary means of support. He'd already told people about the tire slashing so that was a non-issue. Once someone is exposed as a thief they have to find a whole new set of targets, she would have been flung out of her 'gold mine' in the Mormon community, and PPL.

JMO.

 

[Pink Panther]

And she saved the cash receipt for that 3rd gas can. Eek!

You're so right, she has provided the prosecution with all the most compelling evidence against her. I didn't know where the cuts in her left hand were until she showed them to Det. Flores. He explained right to her face that happened when the bloody knife slipped and cut the inside of her fingers, that he'd seen it many times. Busted!

She can't shut up; she has even slipped on the stand, saying "I felt no fear" when asked if she was afraid while she was killing Travis.



While I agree the messages of 5/26 were the immediate trigger, I find myself agreeing with the person who believed she had this planned for a while, and her moving back to Yreka was part of that plan. Travis' last blog, dated May 18, made it clear he'd reevaluated his life on turning 30--which would have been the previous July--2007--not coincidentally the same time she claims she broke up with him (June 29, 2007)--when he resolved to date, from then on, those he considered potential marriage material. With marriage in mind.

That's what makes it even more diabolical, imo. Her plan was a long time in the works. She didn't just decide on 5/26 to sneak into Arizona undetected and murder him. She set her plan in motion the first week of April, 2008, when she moved back to Yreka. IMHO.



I can see how, after being forced to remain silent for weeks, jurors might have some things to say in deliberations, and maybe the foreman would want to go through a checklist just to be thorough. So imo the verdict may not come in as quickly as we'd like. OTOH JM's closing statement might provide the only checklist they need.

I'll be surprised if we don't see a verdict by the second day of jury deliberations.

I find your theory that she may have been planning this from the time she moved back to Yreka very interesting! Great post.

 

[Pensfan]

HLN announced that the jurors can still ask more questions. UGH. This trial may never end.

 

[beeshie]

I disagree because the first shots were taken without a flash and they are much darker. There is a shot before the full-on face shot where he looks surprised. She is a stalker and wanted souvenirs of her victim. I don't think he was posing and initially aware she was there. She even said he wouldn't have consented to shower pics being taken. I think he was relaxing thinking she had left. The crossed leg position was taken after she killed him and stuffed him back into the shower.

If she wanted souvenirs she would have taken the camera and/or memory card. Your last sentence is wrong for several obvious reasons.

 

[Arishia]

The "shot first theory" has a lot going for it. Please see the copious posts on this theory elsewhere.

You cite an example above depicting someone taking a large caliber gun, pointing it into his mouth and shooting himself. This example has NOTHING to do with the GSW in the JA/TA case.

If the pathway of the .25 caliber bullet fragment had penetrated the center of the brain ie the midbrain, the pons, the supraclinoid carotid arteries, the basal ganglia, the internal capsule and other “elegant areas of grey matter” then TA would have been immediately incapacitated. This was NOT the case with TA.

Once again – The ME demonstrated ONLY an entry wound above the right brow, passing into the right frontal bone, across the leptomeninges, and downward across the anterior frontal lobe, with an exit somewhere just to the left of midline – the planum sphenoidale, into the pterygopalatine fossa and on into the left masticator space, with a final resting place near the left mandibular condyle. Based on this trajectory no elegant areas are destroyed.

And to reiterate= this wound has NOTHING to do with the example above where somebody aimed a gun into an open mouth followed on by the bullet traversing critical areas of the cerebrum and brainstem including cerebral arteries , mid brain, pons. The resultant clinical injury from this sort of GSW is instantaneous loss of consciousness and death.

I'm not familiar with the shock wave from a .25. If you are, is it sufficient to create a concussion with disorientation or retrograde amnesia or something like that? Or is it more like a penetrating brain injury without shock wave damage? Excuse my poor use of words here, I'm decades out from this kind of stuff.

 

[G&AMom]

That is SO FUNNY! I feel ya here...We need an acronym dictionary if there isn't already one someplace. It takes me so long to read a post. I finally figured out what MOO means just yesterday.

I use this link:

http://www.internetslang.com/ITA-meaning-definition.asp

Sometimes I right-click on it and open it in another tab because I know I will need it often!

 

[newsjunkie]

FYI ..the ME said the bullet did not go through sinus cavity..went through brain which means immediate incapacitation. He was very sure about this. Just watched his testimony again.

I was unsure about my opinion on the sequence of the attack until I went and watch the ME on the stand. Anyone who missed it should take the opportunity to see it. He is VERY clear. The gunshot went through the right frontal lobe of the brain and was last.

 

[dtzblnd]

Depending on the question, it could have been objected to on foundation, maybe. I also wonder if more will come out about that, or if JM is putting the DT on notice about potential future testimony from someone, or about something, that can be related to the magazine messages. "Open that door and this is where we will go with it..." Just a thought. Not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination. :fence:

JM might have objected to questions about the magazines because he has a bombshell for rebuttal & doesn't want to give JA a chance to provide rambling responses to questions about it now. Nurmi same thing - he may have wanted some questions stricken that will be addressed by his experts.

 

[perfectvirgo]

I'd like to address these two posts together as they are related:

I have asked several times, but can't get a response that makes sense... why would Jodi take pictures of Travis in the shower without his knowledge? Nothing about this hypothesis makes sense to me. I can't understand why people think Jodi would have done this especially since neither side has suggested It. And no, I don't accept "that's just crazy Jodi" as a good answer!

Why it doesn't make sense:
1. Use of flash
2. He's looking right in the camera at the end
3. He's clearly posing in the pics of his back
4. She deleted the pictures (not blackmail)
5. She planned to kill him....in the shower and this was a way to get him in there and not have him be suspicious about why she's in the bathroom with him

Please, someone enlighten me.

You're already enlightened! I agree with you. He was in the shower voluntarily and knew she was there. He was not suspicious. Her intention was to have him pose several different ways, showing his back, his profile, posed with fists drawn up to his chest... all to relax him and leading to a final seated pose when she could come in with the 'coup de grace'.

I will go further and say there is no way she had a camera and a weapon trained on him simultaneously. Why on earth would she jeopardise her position of supreme advantage for a photo she would never keep. TA was a big strong man and the whole point of the shower scene was to have him vulnerable. I don't see JA risking her plans by trying to threaten and photograph at the same time? Sorry to those who want to be seeing a photograph of the first strike but I can't buy it.

I think JA shot Travis while he was in the shower enclosure. He then came out like a bull after being wounded and JA had to finish him off with the knife. Went directly to the mirror to see the wounds to his head, got nailed in the back and down the hall they went.

I know this goes against the ME's suggestion but I very much agree. And more... JA loves to point out on the witness stand when someone is wrong. JA wouldn't let the ME's perceived order-of-wounds inaccuracy go unremarked. She declared the ME 'got that wrong' (regarding gunshot last). I think there's a good chance she pulled the tiny gun from her back pocket with TA seated in the shower and had him at the perfect height for an easy headshot. The shell could easily have been kicked during the potentially 'busy' bathroom scene.

All JMOO

 

[Dmacky]

Last night I was was rewatching the trial where JM is questioning the expert that recoved the photo's from TA's Camera. And something I heard for the first time regarding the pic of Travis looking straight into the camera (the 5:30 one) is that he was sitting when that pic was taken. I always assumed he was standing and looking out the clear shower door! This makes me wonder if she had the gun on him then, because he looks startled to me. What do you guys think?

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I'm glad the jurors will be able to submit additional questions. IMO, there were several she sidestepped or answered only one part of the question, but not the other.
I'm not sure if they need to reword their questioning, or if the judge needs to make sure the question is really answered before going on to the next.

 

[beeshie]

I am one of those people with a differing opinion; however, I am open to change and have changed my mind several times on several issues by reading posts by other websleuths.

The suggestion that one scenario is being chosen over another "for the titillation factor" is offensive. We are brainstorming here with thousands of participants. Hopefully the combined imagination and willingness to think outside of the box offers possibilities to investigators and other websleuths that they otherwise wouldn't think of.

This is what gives me and other victim's families the feeling that something good comes from involvement in finding the missing and trying to help solve murders--promoting justice where we ourselves may not have received it.

I am not here for the "titillation" because I think the photos were taken without Travis' knowledge, or if I believed the sex scenes were staged, or if I believe the shot was first or last, or any other aspect of this brutal murder. Nor do I believe other posters are. Your criticism mights make someone hesitate to post a differing idea for fear of being attacked.

<modsnip>

Your post doesn't address the obvious evidence that he knew she was taking the photos and you don't provide any evidence to support your opinion.

Brainstorming is great, <modsnip>

 

[indycornstalk]

Most people are focusing on the trip to Cancun as the trigger for setting JA off. I believe it was the messages from TA on 5/26 stating that she was evil and the worst thing that ever happened to him that doomed him. Whatever she did to provoke these 5/26 messages is the key to the reason behind this murder. JA was in fear of being exposed for whatever she had done.

Also, I have to say something about all these "cheating on me" statements. The only way someone can cheat on you is if you are engaged to be married or are married to the person cheating. Single people who date (and I mean date and not sleeping together) are usually looking for a long term marriage partner. They are free to date as many people as they seem fit and are not "cheating" on each other. There is no committment unless you are engaged or married.

In a post that Chris Hughes, Travis Alexander's Mentor and Best Friend; that he made on his facebook page, he states emphatically that the MAIN reason why "IT" killed Travis was that if you remember, Travis and her were doing that "1000" Places To See Before You Die" book, Arias could NOT handle the fact that Travis was taking Mimi Hall instead of her and Arias could NOT foresee Travis being at those places with anyone other than her. Chris Hughes also states that Travis had turned a new page in his life and was looking forward to meeting a good Mormon girl and was thrilled that Arias had finally moved away from him. I REALLY believe based on what Chris Hughes posted that Travis did NOT know she was going to show up there. He NEVER wanted her there and NEVER invited her to come there based on what Chris Hughes posted. Also that the TRIP was indeed the Catalyst for Arias to plan killing him. Just saying...