Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[G&AMom]

You could be right. It just wouldn't surprise me if she had tried to bully him with pedo accusations while he was still alive.

When did the letter first appear? 2010?

[I've tried to respond THREE times and lost each reply. My son & I are battling it out for bandwidth here at home. Hopefully, the fourth times the charm. :furious:]

In July 2010, Juan Martinez filed a motion saying that on June 1, 2010, Jodi said she had ten letters supposedly written by Travis that she wanted to submit as evidence. He argued they were hearsay.

On June 18, JM asked for the originals. Defense said Jodi had received the letters "electronically from a third party." (I presume this is Matt McCartney/McCarthy.)

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time anybody had heard of them.

You can see the motion at this link; it begins on page 11:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/109828551/Jodi-Arias-Court-Documents

There is also a story that Jodi's mom shopped the letters to the National Enquirer. I don't have any links or info on that.

 

[katiedid2]

IIRC Rachel is a fellow morman that lives in Mesa and let JA stay there for 1 or 2 weeks when she moved from Ca. to arizona AFTER the breakup.
Here's another lie I have caught JA in. She said (of course) that TA WANTED her to move there. It was something they had talked about, and she already had plans to move there and live with Rachel??? I find that hard to believe as Rachel made her move out pretty fast because she was getting married? PLEASE NO one wanted here there. How she have already had plans to move there with no where to live? Plus she just up and quit her job. No money, no where to live = desparate to not let Travis out of her sight = stalking

I think Rachel got wind that ! Jodi was stalking travis and slashed his tires and decided it wasn't safe to have her around and around her husband.

 

[Worry Wart]

JA testified on Day 22, in the afternoon. She said she was choked in April, after her mother came to help her move ( and was dismissed). It was, according to her, resulting from a conversation about the pamphlets.

 

[Allyne Smithe]

After hearing a medical examiner express an opinion that a butcher knife was used (because of the depth and width of the wounds), I watched Dr. Horn's testimony, reviewed the autopsy report, and took a look in my kitchen.

My small chef's knife fit the description of a knife that had a triangular tip (the murder knife made two triangular chips to the bone in TA's skull), was long enough to have made a stab wound 5 3/4" deep, and capable of inflicting wounds of varying widths from 3/4" to 1" to 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" to a 1 3/4" oblique stab wound. A perfect fit in all respects.

For the record, my small chef's knife has a 6 1/4" blade that is 1 1/2" wide near the bottom and a hair over that at the very base. (A large chef's knife with a 10" blade seems twice as big.) Here's what it looks like compared to a dollar bill and a .25 automatic gun.

 

[neesaki]

May 26, 2008

So, one week later, she savagely murdered Travis.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to see all of the trial, does anyone remember if this information was presented to and put into context for the jury? TIA

 

[Boytwnmom]

time she told the story it was that she was "almost" unconscious. Then with each retelling she was somehow closer to death. I don't catch every word so can't remember exactly but I bet the jury heard it fine as they seem to be paying pretty good attention.

The way I remember it, this one she pulled out of thin air while testifying about the murder. It was the time "he almost killed" her. Choked her to unconsciousness. It literally made me go 'WHAT". If she'd ever said it before that, I didn't hear it. She said it happened in April.

It was like 'oh rats! I forgot to tell them about the worst time! Damn!!" So she just stuck it in.

Kind of like the marriage proposal she just remembered to mention.

 

[katiedid2]

Ok, can't find it yet, but I always end up getting sidetracked when I go to the minutes. Here's a good one - 1-12-10

IT IS ORDERED denying Defendant’s Motion to Strike State’s Death Notice Since
Death by Lethal Injection will Result in Cruel and Unusual Punishment.
The Court has received and considered Defendant’s Motion to Exclude Fingerprint


HAHA nurmi said the needle is cruel and unusual punishment!!
AND he wanted any fingerprints excluded.

What a waste of the court's time.

PS LQ - still looking for the computer stuff

Cruel and unusual! I'm sure travis would have picked to die by lethal as opposed to being slaughtered and shot! All i can say is mr nurmi. Sure got his nerve.

 

[G&AMom]

Ok. So let's go for five (5) instances. Most of them questionable, none of them corroborated. So, what then? What do we have? Nothing. JA lying on the stand.

But no. Let's take it a step further. Let's say that these five incidents were genuine. Real. True. Let's take them at HYPOTHETICAL value.

Do they constitute "reasonable" self defence for someone stabbing 29 times and shooting someone in the head?

JA has pleading guilty of killing TA.

So...She's "self-defending" as PTS victim (of five highly questionable instances) ?

I'm lost.

If we've come to this point in the criminal justice system that even photographs of the murderer and his/her victim won't suffice, imo, we are truly scrd. (spelling error intended).

moo

I genuinely believe that it would not be hard for Jodi to find an expert who would say that each person does not react to the same circumstances the same way, and that what causes PTSD in one person would not in another. Some soldiers come home from Afghanistan with PTSD, some do not.

BUT, I do not believe a PTSD sufferer would voluntarily return to a situation in which more violence would occur. A soldier might feel he has to return to the front, but basically he is following orders. No one ordered Jodi to see Travis ever again. I also think, as a PTSD sufferer myself, that fear of getting into a similar situation would FAR outweigh any supposed psychological hold Travis had over Jodi. JMO

 

[ChinaBlue]

I personally prefer psychopath but most people think its two separate species. Psychopath's Mama was actually known as Sociopath. Its roots go back to a French researcher in 1801 and was called moral insanity for the better part of a century with few variations. It was first called sociopathy in 1909 which would be used by the APA for the DSM in 1952. The next edition dropped the term.

Every researcher has their pet theory as to differences, if any, though. I think the broadened classification is a really good idea - it blends all the knowns of psychopathic and antisocial behaviors without the exclusion of psychopathic features in the DSM-IV which has only led to many assuming psychopathy isn't valid; ASPD is a required diagnosis for psychopathy; or, even worse, that ASPD is the very same thing.

Having been in a relationship with a bona fide comorbid ASPD/NPD (and likely psychopathic according to my armchair analysis) the only thing that scares me is these creatures walking the earth free of accountability. To me that particular chemistry is a bomb just waiting to explode.
------------
Schuby,
I'm unable to quote you - thread's closed. Sociopathic and psychopathic are basically (very close) cousins to antisocial personality disorder. A therapeutic psychologist would likely make that diagnosis - or a comorbidity of that and other personality disorders - rather than even a muttering of sociopathy or psychopathy.

There is a huge debate, even within the psych circle itself, if there even is a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. For me personally, there isn't, and I simply prefer psychopath because of the negative image it conjures for many. People need to think Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy if doing so keeps them from becoming a victim to a cruel, cold-blooded predator very capable of destroying a person and totally ruining their life - if not actually physically taking it. IYKWIM

I apologize, in advance since this might be a little OT.

When I was in college it became quickly apparent that I had no aptitude for the social sciences - the "ologies" such as psychology, sociology, anthropology, etc. Maybe it was because I was a mathematics major and I like the soundness of the fact that 2+2=4 always and forever - no variation, no deviation. I'm pretty much a black and white person and until I got into my late 30s or so, there were very few any shades of gray with me. So reading about sociopaths/psychopaths always makes my head spin. But finally, watching JA in action (however one wishes to characterize her) has given me an insight that my old black and white mind could never have understood before. She is both creepy and frightening.

I watched the CA trial on the Internet (haven't had a TV since '97) and was fascinated by the workings of the trial but infuriated by the outcome. Since CA wisely chose not to take the stand, it was not possible to see her true personality emerge although the media was, as with JA, labeling her a sociopath/psychopath. Since I didn't have the "visuals" to help me understand As personality, I started reading true crime stories - trying to get a grasp on why killers do what they do. (I avoided text books because I probably would have fallen into a Jodi-like fog.) Just recently I read 4 books about Ted Bundy; I don't know what affected me so much about him, but I kept reading because all I could think was why, why, why and how, how, how does someone become this way.

Certainly the crimes that JA, CA and TB are horrific but I found myself equally horrified thinking that there must be some genetic or environmental impetus(or perhaps a combination of these) that leads to such behavior and maybe, just maybe, we, as a society, have some tools at hand to reduce/eliminate this behavior.. A "normal" mind just wouldn't go the way of these three. But it was Anagrammy's post, a very heartbreaking story, about her sociopathic son which prompted me to write this post and ask a question of those of you more familiar with the workings within the social sciences fields.

Is there, or has there been, any thought given to creating a unoversal database of characteristics of known sociopaths/psychopaths along with a collection of their DNA which could be tested, specifically genome sequencing? I would imagine the ACLU would have apoplexy over this idea but if we could get a genetic "handle" on this behavior and treat it with drugs and/or counseling, perhaps in the future we could reduce the chances of a Travis being butchered or a Caylee being smothered and buried or a sorority house in Florida having two of its members slain along with two being viciously attacked.

Anyone have a response?

 

[snowcat]

I'm re-posting this as the last thread closed.

I know it's early, but I hope all of Travis' siblings quote part of his text to her...where he called her evil...and she was the worse thing that happened to him, etc. during the sentencing part of this trial. She has fantasized what she thought their relationship was...when in reality she was his sex buddy...that's it. He was NEVER going to marry someone like her. A clinger, manipulator, liar and a follower. She needs to be reminded about he really felt.

I'm so sickened when I hear her make allegations against a man she brutally killed....not in self defense but in a rage and full of hate. She tries to blind the jurors with her sex-capades and toblerone stories when in reality...she stabbed a man 29x, slit his throat...dragged his body into shower, shot him and cleaned him off. I pray to God she didn't say anything to him while she did these things to him. How can someone hate someone else so much that not only do they kill him, but deny the family the truth because of her "fog". Ughhhhhhh.

She has hurt so many people and she still thinks this is all about her. Boo hoo. She is a psychopath and should be given the quickest trip off this earth. I never was a DP believer, however this case merits that. Evil must be destroyed. I just wish it could be done and completed sooner. :banghead:

This murder has really shaken me to my core. So many people hurt...so many lives changed and a young man killed, after going through such a hard upbringing, in his prime.


My heart goes out to his family. We live in Canada and I watch the trial online. It doesn't matter how far we are....I pray this family can heal knowing they have many people that care.

couldn't have said it better!

 

[katiedid2]

I know she didn't take the stand, but anybody here wonder what the Casey Anthony jurors would have asked her??

With the mindset of those pinellas jurors! I'd say they would ask aside from club fusion what other watering holes would they recommend! And what are the top resteraunts in Orlando!

 

[Allyne Smithe]

In July 2010, Juan Martinez filed a motion saying that on June 1, 2010, Jodi said she had ten letters supposedly written by Travis that she wanted to submit as evidence. He argued they were hearsay.

On June 18, JM asked for the originals. Defense said Jodi had received the letters "electronically from a third party." (I presume this is Matt McCartney/McCarthy.)

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time anybody had heard of them.

You can see the motion at this link; it begins on page 11:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/109828551/Jodi-Arias-Court-Documents

There is also a story that Jodi's mom shopped the letters to the National Enquirer. I don't have any links or info on that.

Here's a link to the National Enquirer story: http://www.nationalenquirer.com/true-crime/exclusive-jodi-arias-desperate-escape-plan

 

[Lupie43]

Okay, I just can't keep this inside anymore.

My signature line indicates I have "brain fog". I want to differentiate Lupus brain fog vs JA's BS "fog" (not being able to recall the June 4th killing via knife).

My brain fog is a cognitive dysfunction creating problems with difficulty finding words and retrieving information - NOT amnesia, NOT an excuse for bad behavior, etc. There are times when conversing with friends and family and I have an important thought, I have to say 'excuse me' immediately or the thought will be gone. If I don't interrupt, the thought may come back to me hours later.

JA is offensive to a lot of people and her fog offends me. FWIW. Well actually she offends me no matter what she says.

I just thought I would throw this out here while the boards aren't real busy.

Also, I have been a victim of domestic violence and find refuge at WS.

This post appears to be about me, me, and me. In reality it just burns my butt how negatively she affects people.

Rant over.

 

[Vresia]

JA testified on Day 22, in the afternoon. She said she was choked in April, after her mother came to help her move ( and was dismissed). It was, according to her, resulting from a conversation about the pamphlets.

JM is cross-examining JA on the choking incident on this video starting at 0:12:40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e27NDs13Owg

 

[Plumeria5]

Does anyone else hate to use a knife in the kitchen now? I just finished cutting vegetables and chicken for a barbeque and doing it gave me chills thinking about what Travis must have gone through.

 

[G&AMom]

This is true. One time my ex-wife before she was my wife had a minor hissy-fit and curled up in a ball and began hyperventilating. I called 911. I didn't call back. During the call itself she got on the phone and told them she was fine (except the drama kind of backfired) and not to send anyone.

They dispatched anyway and I had two cops and a couple of EMTs drop by to run her vitals and determine that everything was indeed alright.

I may be wrong here, but I'm under the impression that once help is called for, especially if it has so much of a wiff of a domestic issue, someone is coming to your place regardless. As it should be.

Could you imagine the fallout should some woman be beaten, manages to call 911, after which her abuser beats her into calling back to cancel and they go right ahead and not bother to show up?

All it would have taken is for that to happen once for heads to roll and policy be changed.

P.S. What I learned in my 20s: Should your GF get involved in a tickle fight with her friends and fall head-first into an upright cast iron radiator and split her head and bleed all over the place and you, as a dutiful and scared s-less boyfriend drive her to the emergency room, be prepared to answer some questions. Lots and lots of questions. Even after they take her in the back of the ER before they even stitch her up and she tells them what happened and your total lack of involvement.

Again, as it should be.

BBM. If you have kids you may have been through this as well. My unbelievably hyperactive son had to be taken to the ER twice with a what might have been "nursemaid's elbow" (caused by grabbing the kid's arm, pulling & twisting). Triage nurses definitely had to ask some questions!

 

[katydid23]

The way I remember it, this one she pulled out of thin air while testifying about the murder. It was the time "he almost killed" her. Choked her to unconsciousness. It literally made me go 'WHAT". If she'd ever said it before that, I didn't hear it. She said it happened in April.

It was like 'oh rats! I forgot to tell them about the worst time! Damn!!" So she just stuck it in.

Kind of like the marriage proposal she just remembered to mention.

IIRC, it went something like this:

JM asked her why she went right and into the closet, instead of going left, out the door. And she blurts out ---" because the last time I tried that he got me before I made it to the door and choked me out...it was in August I believe...:liar::liar::liar:

 

[DebinGA]

Cruel and unusual! I'm sure travis would have picked to die by lethal as opposed to being slaughtered and shot! All i can say is mr nurmi. Sure got his nerve.

The last woman executed in AZ was iirc in the 1930's. She was hung, and her head came off in the process. That qualifies for "unusual" at least.

 

[scorpio24]

I don't know that I've EVER seen a defense attorney ask so many leading questions. How much more could he possibly lead her?

The funny part is: She REFUSED to be led, for the most part. Even when Nurmi FED her the answers, JA was almost defiant in her responses. This is HER moment in the spotlight, HER dramatic monologue, HER role of a lifetime - and she's not going to let an attorney she's already FIRED (or tried to fire) affect her performance.

She thinks she's smarter than him. And he knows it! :twocents:

 

[G&AMom]

Folks, I'm going to have to call it a night. Let my son have the gol-durned bandwidth to play on his new laptop.

Only one more day to see what happens next!