Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Mama, the source is Steve Thomas's book, p. 18-19. He and Officer Reichenbach checked JBR's room together. A frost had formed on the balcony in the night and had not melted.

Frost forms usually in the predawn hours. Not at night, So then it could have still had someone on the balcony say up until maybe 4 am and the tracks would have been covered by new frost.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The pineapple in her small intestine was tested and so was the pineapple in the bowl. They were a match - said to match "down to the rind".

By whom was it tested? And when? What kind of special pineapple was this?

 

[Tawny]

Frost forms usually in the predawn hours. Not at night, So then it could have still had someone on the balcony say up until maybe 4 am and the tracks would have been covered by new frost.

[modsnip] Frost can form at any time of night. It is the result of heat escaping quickly as the sun sets, when there are no clouds to keep the moisture trapped on the surface.

http://www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com/cloudsrus/frost.html

Since the sun sets REALLY early in Colorado at Christmas time, like around 5 pm, frost would start forming well before midnight.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

[modsnip] Frost can form at any time of night. It is the result of heat escaping quickly as the sun sets, when there are no clouds to keep the moisture trapped on the surface.

http://www.rcn27.dial.pipex.com/cloudsrus/frost.html

Since the sun sets REALLY early in Colorado at Christmas time, like around 5 pm, frost would start forming well before midnight.

This is nothing about WHEN frost occurs.. Just how it occurs..

And since most people believe she died before midnight there would have been no frost by then.

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/CO/Boulder/1996-12-25

The lowest recorded temp through midnight was 32 degrees. No frost..
Most frost occurs in the early morning hours before sunrise. I am looking for a good source. I have found many but am looking for a better one.


"Frost will normally form early in the morning before sunrise. "
http://buckeyeturf.osu.edu/index.ph...article&id=225&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=170

 

[tezi]

This is nothing about WHEN frost occurs.. Just how it occurs..

And since most people believe she died before midnight there would have been no frost by then.

http://www.almanac.com/weather/history/CO/Boulder/1996-12-25

The lowest recorded temp through midnight was 32 degrees. No frost..
Most frost occurs in the early morning hours before sunrise. I am looking for a good source. I have found many but am looking for a better one.


"Frost will normally form early in the morning before sunrise. "
http://buckeyeturf.osu.edu/index.ph...article&id=225&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=170

Wait...I don't recall that most people saying they believe she died before midnight. Where did you get that? And that's an honest question, [modsnip].

JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wait...I don't recall that most people saying they believe she died before midnight. Where did you get that? And that's an honest question, [modsnip].

JMO

Well near midnight anyway. It can not be too much after that and still have the full rigor she had when found.

" In 12 to 18 hours the body is, as the saying goes, stiff as a board"

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/rigor-mortis-cause.htm

So if she was stiff so that she could not be bent at 1:05 the next day, She had to be dead a good long time.


Do you have a time that you think she passed? Some things we can argue but science kind of leaves us big clues that we can not ignore.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Wait...I don't recall that most people saying they believe she died before midnight. Where did you get that? And that's an honest question, [modsnip].

JMO

Welcome back!!!:loveyou:

 

[tezi]

Well near midnight anyway. It can not be too much after that and still have the full rigor she had when found.

" In 12 to 18 hours the body is, as the saying goes, stiff as a board"

http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/death-dying/rigor-mortis-cause.htm

So if she was stiff so that she could not be bent at 1:05 the next day, She had to be dead a good long time.


Do you have a time that you think she passed? Some things we can argue but science kind of leaves us big clues that we can not ignore.

Somewhere between 1200 and 300 a.m. Just my uneducated guess.

JMO

 

[Meara]

Frost forms usually in the predawn hours. Not at night, So then it could have still had someone on the balcony say up until maybe 4 am and the tracks would have been covered by new frost.

Frost is one of those random subjects I just happen to know something about. Even so , I checked eight sources online. All of them described in a similar way how frost forms which I've offered here. Two specifically stated that frost forms at night. None of them stated that frost does, or does not, form at any particular time during the night, and none of them said that frost tends to form toward dawn. One of the sources was a university; another was National Geographic. I'm not at home right now, so I can't access my search record, but I should be able to do that later, if needed. At any rate, all of the sources focused on the conditions for frost formation. If you have sources that say those conditions typically occur after midnight, or toward dawn, or anything along those lines, please do share them.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Frost is one of those random subjects I just happen to know something about. Even so , I checked eight sources online. All of them described in a similar way how frost forms which I've offered here. Two specifically stated that frost forms at night. None of them stated that frost does, or does not, form at any particular time during the night, and none of them said that frost tends to form toward dawn. One of the sources was a university; another was National Geographic. I'm not at home right now, so I can't access my search record, but I should be able to do that later, if needed. At any rate, all of the sources focused on the conditions for frost formation. If you have sources that say those conditions typically occur after midnight, or toward dawn, or anything along those lines, please do share them.

Id appreciate that..

I did post them.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think the most important point is the frost is no measure of someone being there at any specific time. If frost is not an exact science time wise, Then that should not be a gage for if someone was there or not.

I know I have been up at 3 am and no frost but wake up at 6 am and everything is frosted.

So To say someone was there or not there would not be accurate. Just a guess. Just like the rumor about there could not have been an intruder because there was no footprints in the snow that morning.

 

[Anti-K]

Glick says he found a meteorologist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration who told him that there was little snowfall and that the temperature had been mostly above freezing in the week prior to the murder. Glick says he then deduced that because there were no leaves on the trees to block the sunshine from reaching the flagstone patio outside the broken window, there probably wasn't any snow on the ground outside the broken window -- even though there were patches of snow on the lawn. To confirm, Glick says, he contacted a "frost expert" who told him that scientifically one couldn't even determine whether or when frost would have been on the ground outside the window. In other words, the police notation of "no footprints" was meaningless; it certainly did not rule out the entrance of an intruder. http://tinyurl.com/lhtmrny
BBM
...

AK

 

[Mama2JML]

Have you heard/read any semi-reliable, REAL source about Linda Hoffman Pugh saying she found Burke & JonBenet in Burke's bed, more than once, and they'd yell at her to go away?

 

[Nom de plume]

Have you heard/read any semi-reliable, REAL source about Linda Hoffman Pugh saying she found Burke & JonBenet in Burke's bed, more than once, and they'd yell at her to go away?

Just so we're all clear here, who exactly do you [modsnip] consider a real, reliable source? So far, police detectives, and police chiefs working for the DA's office are not on that list, so who is? Would LHP, in her own words, be a reliable source?

 

[Mama2JML]

Just so we're all clear here, who exactly do you IDIs consider a real, reliable source? So far, police detectives, and police chiefs working for the DA's office are not on that list, so who is?

LE qualifies as a reliable source, but there are other elements to consider. For example, statements made "in fact" are likely true. Whereas, suggestions, suppositions, and hearsay are not as likely to be true.

Would LHP, in her own words, be a reliable source?

Variations of the statement you've quoted, have been attributed to Linda Hoffman-Pugh, on several occasions, @ this forum. Thus, I expect the source would be LHP. Perhaps the source is another reliable individual relaying the statement as fact. I have not a clue, as I've only come across this claim @ WS. ...actually, I did find a post @ Topix relaying the same message. Again, a source (from a link, book, transcript, etc.) was not provided.

 

[Mama2JML]

This "playing doctor" story attributed to LHP, @ WS, seems to have evolved over the years. I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to find the origin.

2003:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=54153&postcount=43"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Once Again[/ame]

2004:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=352123&postcount=6"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Was Burke a Victim of Sexual Abuse?[/ame]

2006:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1181994&postcount=3"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The shortest distance between two points is a straight line...[/ame]

2011:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7095792&postcount=81"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Burke Ramsey, has no interest in once again answering questions[/ame]

 

[otg]

I’m going to post some information here which hopefully will answer the question that was first posed on another thread and subsequently got closed. I’m not questioning the reason for mod closure ( :seeya: Hi, Salem), I know they have a tough job. I’m just trying to clear up the origin of the information on that thread which has found its way here to this thread. But I should first give a caveat:

The source for the information is, I know, dubious in the opinion of many (myself included). But I have a suggestion. I don’t make the rules, but I try to abide by them. We all have our opinion as to whether we should discount a particular source or give it any merit. Rather than debate the reliability of the source, take it for what it’s worth to you as an individual. (And I am not suggesting this to you in particular, Mama, because you questioned it, not just to the posters on this thread, but I’m suggesting it to my RDI friends as well -- I know they read here, even if they don’t post.) Again, this is just a suggestion to try and keep the peace around here.

The tabloid press obviously competes with one another to get “inside” information. Some of it turns out not to be true, but some of it is later confirmed by other sources. (I still remember OJ saying he wouldn't own a pair of those "ugly-assed" shoes, and then one of the tabs found and published a photo of him wearing his Bruno Magli shoes.) I don’t know if this particular source (LHP) ever confirmed it or not, but this is where the information about the Ramsey kids “playing doctor” was first reported. Someone else can do the “legwork” to find out if it was ever confirmed if they wish, I’m just passing on where it originated. It started in The Globe, toward the end of 1998:

 

[Mama2JML]

I’m going to post some information here which hopefully will answer the question that was first posed on another thread and subsequently got closed. I’m not questioning the reason for mod closure ( :seeya: Hi, Salem), I know they have a tough job. I’m just trying to clear up the origin of the information on that thread which has found its way here to this thread. But I should first give a caveat:

The source for the information is, I know, dubious in the opinion of many (myself included). But I have a suggestion. I don’t make the rules, but I try to abide by them. We all have our opinion as to whether we should discount a particular source or give it any merit. Rather than debate the reliability of the source, take it for what it’s worth to you as an individual. (And I am not suggesting this to you in particular, Mama, because you questioned it, not just to the posters on this thread, but I’m suggesting it to my RDI friends as well -- I know they read here, even if they don’t post.) Again, this is just a suggestion to try and keep the peace around here.

The tabloid press obviously competes with one another to get “inside” information. Some of it turns out not to be true, but some of it is later confirmed by other sources. (I still remember OJ saying he wouldn't own a pair of those "ugly-assed" shoes, and then one of the tabs found and published a photo of him wearing his Bruno Magli shoes.) I don’t know if this particular source (LHP) ever confirmed it or not, but this is where the information about the Ramsey kids “playing doctor” was first reported. Someone else can do the “legwork” to find out if it was ever confirmed if they wish, I’m just passing on where it originated. It started in The Globe, toward the end of 1998:

otg, :tyou:!

 

[cherisa]

I’m going to post some information here which hopefully will answer the question that was first posed on another thread and subsequently got closed. I’m not questioning the reason for mod closure ( :seeya: Hi, Salem), I know they have a tough job. I’m just trying to clear up the origin of the information on that thread which has found its way here to this thread. But I should first give a caveat:

The source for the information is, I know, dubious in the opinion of many (myself included). But I have a suggestion. I don’t make the rules, but I try to abide by them. We all have our opinion as to whether we should discount a particular source or give it any merit. Rather than debate the reliability of the source, take it for what it’s worth to you as an individual. (And I am not suggesting this to you in particular, Mama, because you questioned it, not just to the posters on this thread, but I’m suggesting it to my RDI friends as well -- I know they read here, even if they don’t post.) Again, this is just a suggestion to try and keep the peace around here.

The tabloid press obviously competes with one another to get “inside” information. Some of it turns out not to be true, but some of it is later confirmed by other sources. (I still remember OJ saying he wouldn't own a pair of those "ugly-assed" shoes, and then one of the tabs found and published a photo of him wearing his Bruno Magli shoes.) I don’t know if this particular source (LHP) ever confirmed it or not, but this is where the information about the Ramsey kids “playing doctor” was first reported. Someone else can do the “legwork” to find out if it was ever confirmed if they wish, I’m just passing on where it originated. It started in The Globe, toward the end of 1998:

Ok thank you .this case is so convoluted and and difficult to navigate it truly does help if posters can back up their claims. Even if it is a dubious (yoo) source. My take on the GLOBE TABLOID, is a little bit of truth mixed with a lot of poison. Moo I did read all the articles you posted and it does seem plausible that they might have their story straight. Time will tell.

 

[otg]

otg, :tyou:!

Atually, it was your posts linked above that told me where to look. (I'm really not as smart as it may seem.)