Iran - Ukrainian Airlines Boeing 737 crashes, 180 possible fatalities, Tehran, 8 Jan 2020

[Roselvr]

Most debris has been cleared from the crash site near Tehran where a Ukrainian airliner came down earlier this week, new images shared with CNN show.

The photos, taken near a soccer field in Laleh Park in the town of Shahedshahr on Friday, show the site has been cleared of all pieces of the plane, with locals trawling over the remaining wreckage.

Tehran plane crash: Site cleared of wreckage, images show - CNN

I am very concerned about the situation and the investigation. The scene should have been cordoned off and not have untrained people trampling all over it.

The "investigators" or whoever was there in the beginning were contaminating it anyway, you could see them walking on top of pieces of the plane. It was disgusting; the lack of respect

 

[gregjrichards]

Iran detains suspects over Ukraine plane downing

Several people have been detained in Iran over the accidental shooting down of a Ukrainian passenger plane with a missile, the country's judiciary says.

Spokesman Gholamhossein Esmaili said investigations into the incident were continuing, but provided no details.

President Hassan Rouhani said the probe would be overseen by a "special court".

I can see them getting the death penalty.

 

[LadyL]

On Friday, I found a video showing TWO missiles fired. I went back to rewatch the video about an hour later and it was pulled from the web. This was before Iran admitted that they “accidentally” shot down the plane. I told my hubby, I swear I saw a video of TWO... NYTimes now has verified the video.

New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane

I’m no expert in ordinances but someone please explain how you shoot ONE missile, then ACCIDENTALLY fire a SECOND one?

Unconscionable....

This online group geolocated the source of the missile on Thursday. Pretty amazing work. They also did extensive work on MH17 as well.

Video Apparently Showing Flight PS752 Missile Strike Geolocated to Iranian Suburb - bellingcat

Those innocent people had to be absolutely terrified. The plane was hit by the first missile which knocked out the transponder and lights on the aircraft. The plane continued to fly! It looks like the pilot tried to turn around and return to the airport when the second missile was fired. The second one caused another explosion that could be seen like a fireball in the sky before it plunged to the ground and lights up the entire horizon with the explosion. Absolutely senseless, horrific way to die. Those poor souls....

Prayers for all....

I read that the pilots would've been gone in the first explosion. Some sources state the plane did not try to turn around.

 

[dotr]

Wondering just how soon and how much Iran will compensate the families of the victims?
Iran plane crash: Families of Canadian victims to receive $25,000, Trudeau says
rbbm.
''The Canadian government will give $25,000 to families of the Iranian plane crash victims to assist them with funeral arrangments and travel, among other “immediate needs.”

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced on Friday that the money will go to the 57 Canadian citizens and 29 permanent residents who died when Iran shot down the Ukrainian International Airlines passenger jet last week.

Trudeau reiterated that he still expects Iran to compensate the victims.

“I want to be clear. We expect Iran to compensate these families. I have met them, they can’t wait weeks. They need support now,” he said at a news conference in Ottawa.

“We haven’t looked at what the full compensation would end up looking like from Iran, but I can assure you any money from Iran for the victims would go straight to them. It would not go to the Canadian government.”

 

[LadyL]

PM announces interim funding for Flight PS752 victims' families

 

[A2FMNST]

I read that the pilots would've been gone in the first explosion. Some sources state the plane did not try to turn around.

Oh, I understand it is way to early for verify, conclusively, the specific actions of the pilot and crew regarding the planes heading. It may be concluded that it was an uncontrolled redirection of the planes course and had nothing to do with the pilots attempts to turn back towards the airport.

I was reading late last night and saw an article that mentioned the conditions of the black boxes and sending them to France, who has the skill and tools/technology to open and decider them.

UPDATE 1-Canada says black boxes from Iran crash should be sent to France

 

[A2FMNST]

From my earlier link (NYT). Video referenced in article is embedded at link.

New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane

“Neither (missile) strike downed the plane immediately. The new video shows the airliner on fire, circling back toward Tehran’s international airport. Minutes later it exploded and crashed down, narrowly missing the village of Khalaj Abad, an earlier Times video reconstruction, below, shows.”

 

[dotr]

From my earlier link (NYT). Video referenced in article is embedded at link.

New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane

“Neither (missile) strike downed the plane immediately. The new video shows the airliner on fire, circling back toward Tehran’s international airport. Minutes later it exploded and crashed down, narrowly missing the village of Khalaj Abad, an earlier Times video reconstruction, below, shows.”

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...ho-got-the-video-of-two-missiles-striking-the
''KYIV — An Iranian man who obtained security camera footage showing that two missiles fired by Iranian military forces brought down a Ukrainian airliner near Tehran last week fears being arrested by authorities and has gone into hiding, the man’s friend who published the now-viral video told BuzzFeed News.

The two-minute-long video, verified by BuzzFeed News, provides the most complete visual account yet of the downing of Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 on Jan. 8. It’s the only piece of footage to show both missiles being launched and striking the Boeing 737, which is seen falling from the sky over the village of Khalaj Abad moments later. Other videos published online have shown the plane being struck by one missile before crashing to the ground in a ball of flames, killing all 176 people on board.''

“I didn’t think it would change everything,” said Javad, who provided the original video file to BuzzFeed News.

But shortly after he uploaded the video, it spread across social media and was verified and written about by the New York Times.

News of the arrest of a man who filmed the first missile video came around the same time the video Javad uploaded went viral. He said that arrest prompted his friend to delete his social media profiles and go underground.

“Now he has deleted his accounts and doesn’t want to be shown, for security reasons,” Javad said.''

 

[A2FMNST]

Great resource of raw data regarding the flight.

Ukrainian flight PS752 shot down shortly after take off from Tehran | Flightradar24 Blog

From document at the link below (English translation starts at page 4). Keep in mind, the source of the document is The Islamic Republic of Iran‘s Civil Aviation Organization Aircraft Accident Investigation Board, whose initial report was published on January 9 (just one day after the crash).

“The crash site track indicates that the aircraft was first approaching west to exit the airport boundary, but turned right following a technical problem, and had a track showing returning to the airport.”

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Iran-CAO-PS752-Initial-Report.pdf

Again, final reports on the crash will likely take YEARS to be released. Even with the most cooperative of international partners this type of accident investigation is painstakingly slow. The state political players in this scenario will no doubt complicate and obfuscate the process, dragging it out even longer.

 

[A2FMNST]

The "investigators" or whoever was there in the beginning were contaminating it anyway, you could see them walking on top of pieces of the plane. It was disgusting; the lack of respect

Sickening, and the fact that the vast majority of the victims were either Iranian or dual Iranian/Canadian citizens. No wonder there are mass protests in Iran. THIS is how they treat their own citizens. I’m speechless. Truly horrific.

 

[mrtnira]

I can see them getting the death penalty.

Your estimate may prove true. The outcome is uncertain as of today.

I hope they are excused. It sounds counter-intuitive, but accidents do happen during periods of heightened alert.

In a similar incident, in 1988, the United States Navy cruiser Vincennes shot down Iran Air flight 655 shot down under similar circumstances. It was a period of heightened alert and the radar / air defense technicians were confused about an aircraft. That aircraft was a civilian airliner and it was brought down. 290 Iranians lost their lives.

The ship's captain was the rank of Commander (O-5) and was later promoted to rank of Captain (O-6).

The problem is one of the real world in which there is no magic formula. If the threat to the US naval vessel had been genuine and the service members did not act, what would our judgment be? It is the same for the Iranian operators. If the threat had been genuine and they had not acted, how would they be judged?

The whole circumstance is unfortunate. There is no good resolution.

 

[A2FMNST]

Looks like Iran is turning the black boxes over to Ukraine who will be assisted by France if their efforts to recover the content fails.

Iran Confirms Sending Downed Ukrainian Airliner's Black Boxes To Kyiv

“On January 15, Oleksandr Ruvin of the Kyiv Research Institute of Forensic Studies said the international team would begin studying the black boxes on January 20.”

 

[dotr]

Canada: still no firm plans for downloading crashed jet's flight data
January 19, 2020 / 11:53 AM / Updated 7 minutes ago
''Iran is trying to analyze the black boxes, the state IRNA news agency reported on Sunday, denying a report that a decision had been taken to send the recorders to Ukraine.

The TSB said in a statement that two of its crash investigators had left Tehran earlier on Sunday after a six-day visit during which they examined the wreckage.

The TSB said it understood the boxes were still in Iran and added: “There are still no firm plans as to when and where the aircraft recorders will be downloaded and analyzed”.

Canadian Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne said he wrote to his Iranian counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif on Sunday to urge the boxes be quickly sent to Ukraine or France''

Iran backtracks on plan to send flight recorders to Ukraine
Published Sunday, January 19, 2020 7:06AM EST
''TEHRAN, IRAN -- The Iranian official leading the investigation into the Ukrainian jetliner that was accidentally shot down by the Revolutionary Guard appeared to backtrack Sunday on plans to send the flight recorders abroad for analysis, a day after saying they would be sent to Kyiv.

Hassan Rezaeifar was quoted by the state-run IRNA news agency as saying "the flight recorders from the Ukrainian Boeing are in Iranian hands and we have no plans to send them out."

 

[A2FMNST]

Your estimate may prove true. The outcome is uncertain as of today.

Snipped by me...

In a similar incident, in 1988, the United States Navy cruiser Vincennes shot down Iran Air flight 655 shot down under similar circumstances. It was a period of heightened alert and the radar / air defense technicians were confused about an aircraft. That aircraft was a civilian airliner and it was brought down. 290 Iranians lost their lives.

It’s so incredibly sad that so many civilians were killed in BOTH accidents. Iranians, Ukrainians, Canadians - these poor souls were mothers, fathers, husbands, wives, brothers, and sisters. My heart goes out to them, regardless of their nationality or religion. Their families will never be the same again.

I fear we did not learn anything from IA655, MH17, etc. With the technology and communication tools we have these days, it’s shameful that we continue to repeat these mistakes in active conflict zones.

 

[gregjrichards]

Canada: still no firm plans for downloading crashed jet's flight data
January 19, 2020 / 11:53 AM / Updated 7 minutes ago
''Iran is trying to analyze the black boxes, the state IRNA news agency reported on Sunday, denying a report that a decision had been taken to send the recorders to Ukraine.

The TSB said in a statement that two of its crash investigators had left Tehran earlier on Sunday after a six-day visit during which they examined the wreckage.

The TSB said it understood the boxes were still in Iran and added: “There are still no firm plans as to when and where the aircraft recorders will be downloaded and analyzed”.

Canadian Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne said he wrote to his Iranian counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif on Sunday to urge the boxes be quickly sent to Ukraine or France''

Iran backtracks on plan to send flight recorders to Ukraine
Published Sunday, January 19, 2020 7:06AM EST
''TEHRAN, IRAN -- The Iranian official leading the investigation into the Ukrainian jetliner that was accidentally shot down by the Revolutionary Guard appeared to backtrack Sunday on plans to send the flight recorders abroad for analysis, a day after saying they would be sent to Kyiv.

Hassan Rezaeifar was quoted by the state-run IRNA news agency as saying "the flight recorders from the Ukrainian Boeing are in Iranian hands and we have no plans to send them out."

What are they trying to achieve by holding onto the black boxes?

 

[mrtnira]

What are they trying to achieve by holding onto the black boxes?

Wow. That is a penetratingly good question.

 

[A2FMNST]

Canada: still no firm plans for downloading crashed jet's flight data
January 19, 2020 / 11:53 AM / Updated 7 minutes ago
''Iran is trying to analyze the black boxes, the state IRNA news agency reported on Sunday, denying a report that a decision had been taken to send the recorders to Ukraine.

The TSB said in a statement that two of its crash investigators had left Tehran earlier on Sunday after a six-day visit during which they examined the wreckage.

The TSB said it understood the boxes were still in Iran and added: “There are still no firm plans as to when and where the aircraft recorders will be downloaded and analyzed”.

Canadian Foreign Minister Francois-Philippe Champagne said he wrote to his Iranian counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif on Sunday to urge the boxes be quickly sent to Ukraine or France''

Iran backtracks on plan to send flight recorders to Ukraine
Published Sunday, January 19, 2020 7:06AM EST
''TEHRAN, IRAN -- The Iranian official leading the investigation into the Ukrainian jetliner that was accidentally shot down by the Revolutionary Guard appeared to backtrack Sunday on plans to send the flight recorders abroad for analysis, a day after saying they would be sent to Kyiv.

Hassan Rezaeifar was quoted by the state-run IRNA news agency as saying "the flight recorders from the Ukrainian Boeing are in Iranian hands and we have no plans to send them out."

I would defer to Reuters (your source) before the one in my article. I’m sure we will see a great deal of “back and forth” in the coming weeks.

Thanks for posting!

 

[A2FMNST]

What are they trying to achieve by holding onto the black boxes?

It’s all about control of information. In their minds, control the information and you control the situation. In such a tightly controlled country, this doesn’t surprise me. Russia has employed similar tactics in the past. Deny first, muddy the waters, blame the enemy, circle the wagons, and crush any internal resistance with violence.

Keep in mind, Iranian government denied it accidentally shot down PS752 for 3 days. It was only after international pressure from Canada, US, UK, etc. that they finally admitted to it. Once these countries spoke out via the international media regarding the intelligence they had, Iran capitulated.

 

[A2FMNST]

Looks like the Ukrainian victims who made up the flight crew are being repatriated. Link also mentions that the black boxes have not been given to Ukraine.

Bodies of Ukrainian victims of Iran plane crash repatriated

 

[Elainera]

I probably sound completely naive here but aren't the black boxes the property of the Ukraine, or more specifically, the property of the airline? Why is Iran allowed to keep them?