Is Casey the real Zenaida?

[Just Jayla]

According to the source that spoke to JWG and myself, who went to the court house and looked at the full record of the ZG22 case, ZG22 was a hispanic girl who actually needed a translator during the proceedings. There is a typo on the address associated with the driver's license of ZG22 that places her in the same neighborhood (i.e. right there where the ticket was given), but not the same house previously discussed early on in this thread.

It appears there really is no connection between this ZG22 and Casey.

Oh poop, I thought this was overturned with the MySpace stuff, that this was also back on the table-
Waaahhh! :cry:

 

[cecybeans]

According to the source that spoke to JWG and myself, who went to the court house and looked at the full record of the ZG22 case, ZG22 was a hispanic girl who actually needed a translator during the proceedings. There is a typo on the address associated with the driver's license of ZG22 that places her in the same neighborhood (i.e. right there where the ticket was given), but not the same house previously discussed early on in this thread.

It appears there really is no connection between this ZG22 and Casey.

Shoot, KC is not a good enough actress to fake being someone who needed a translator. She has a hard time trying not to come across as Pinocchio.

 

[patty437]

How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

 

[cecybeans]

How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

That's been subject for a lot of speculation. She knew ZG's boyfriend (former boyfriend?) at the tattoo parlor. She may have heard ZG' name mentioned there. I've always thought that perhaps ZG got a call from "Sawgrass" apts (ie: KC) letting her know of a great deal on rent and an invitation to make an appt to check it out. That would explain why they both were in the parking lot at the same time, if that is the place where KC was able to also ID her car. If not, then KC knew she would be filling out a card and she could get info from her. Since KC had friends there, I've always wondered if maybe one of them had been recruited for the purpose of luring ZG there, perhaps under the auspices of something else.

Of course, KC could have just been there at the same time and seen ZG's card in the office if it was laying out on the counter. She may have thought that the apt ZG was looking at would be rented by the time she needed a story. It's really a mystery and something we may not ever know.

 

[patty437]

That's been subject for a lot of speculation. She knew ZG's boyfriend (former boyfriend?) at the tattoo parlor. She may have heard ZG' name mentioned there. I've always thought that perhaps ZG got a call from "Sawgrass" apts (ie: KC) letting her know of a great deal on rent and an invitation to make an appt to check it out. That would explain why they both were in the parking lot at the same time, if that is the place where KC was able to also ID her car. If not, then KC knew she would be filling out a card and she could get info from her. Since KC had friends there, I've always wondered if maybe one of them had been recruited for the purpose of luring ZG there, perhaps under the auspices of something else.

Of course, KC could have just been there at the same time and seen ZG's card in the office if it was laying out on the counter. She may have figured that the apt ZG was looking at would be rented by the time she needed a story. It's really a mystery and something we may not ever know.

Are you saying the BF (or former BF) at the tattoo parlor worked there? I remember when 2 of the guys that worked there were on Nancy Grace, there was no mention of any ZG connection at that shop.

 

[cecybeans]

Are you saying the BF (or former BF) at the tattoo parlor worked there? I remember when 2 of the guys that worked there were on Nancy Grace, there was no mention of any ZG connection at that shop.

IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

 

[patty437]

IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

Do we know how the ZG connection from the tat parlor came to be known? I've seen ZG and she certainly has alot of tats so that makes sense.

 

[patty437]

I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

 

[cecybeans]

I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

Since that was part of an investigation, and JM has been representing ZG in her civil case, they may have been asked not to advertise that fact. Or they may simply not have known.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

It was alleged that Zenaida Gonzalez's ex-boyfriend has the tattoo place where Casey got her tattoos listed as a friend on his myspace friend list. I never heard that he worked there.

 

[Just Jayla]

It was alleged that Zenaida Gonzalez's ex-boyfriend has the tattoo place where Casey got her tattoos listed as a friend on his myspace friend list. I never heard that he worked there.

That's my understanding, too-But now CA brings new info to light in her recent depo, when she claims someone from DBC, TL's entertainment group friends, lived at Sawgrass....
Of course, TL does not confirm this on his end, he says he doesn't know where some of the people he works with lived (especially the bouncers), and that he had no idea where Sawgrass even was.
Another lie from CA, or was KC messing around with someone over there that knew TL so they kept mum?
Do pings ever put KC at Sawgrass? I can go back through the pings threads, but I wonder if she could have slid by there without us necessarily noticing that's where she was.

 

[Just Jayla]

Then, there's the FrankM angle.....Still wonder every now and then where he might fit into this, the little devil that he has been...

 

[AZlawyer]

IIRC, ZG's boyfriend worked at the tattoo parlor that KC used. If so, she may have heard the name there. A lot of that speculation was based on the previous theory of if KC was using an aka of ZG. If that was the case, she'd have wanted to single someone out with a familiar name, and the tattoo parlor was something they both had in common.

Since that looks more doubtful now, the appearance of ZG at Sawgrass may be less contrived. KC may have simply seen her application in the office before it was filed or while ZG was being given the apt. tour. She would have had to notice what car she entered in the parking lot in order to have used that for her description to LE>

Are you sure the "Real ZG" drove a silver Ford Focus, as KC claimed her ZG did? I have never seen anything confirming that KC's car description was correct.

 

[Jolynna]

I guess I just don't understand why the guys from the tat parlor didn't mention ZG when they were on the Nancy Grace show awhile back.

I don't think the ex-boyfriend worked at the tattoo shop. The ex-boyfriend did have the tattoo shop listed as one of his friends on his myspace.

However, whether the ex-boyfriend hung out there or worked there, it IS possible that he could have sometimes driven ZG's vehicle & talked about ZG. He could have talked about ZG moving into Sawgrass. Maybe the link between ZG & KC is that upon a couple of occasions they were in the tattoo place at the same time and KC overheard conversations.

 

[Jolynna]

Are you sure the "Real ZG" drove a silver Ford Focus, as KC claimed her ZG did? I have never seen anything confirming that KC's car description was correct.

She had a new silver vehicle that looked like a Ford Focus.

Before the real ZG's myspace went private there was a picture of it on her myspace. (not rumor, I saw it myself) That is one of the reasons so many people ended up on that ZG's myspace.

 

[BondJamesBond]

How did Casey know about ZG at Sawgrass Apt 210?

Great question, patty.

Someone closer to the details can correct/update add/subtract...

Best info I've seen to-date is in the the 10/09 released docs an individual indicated they expect JM's ZG to explain that she had been to Crane's Landing apt. the week of 6/16 apartment hunting and that Casey may have gleened her info there. Recall that Casey & TL visited Crane's Landing 6/19. IIRC, Tony viewed the apartment while Casey waited in the office. Based on one scenario using pings & the ADD info, Casey would've disposed of Caylee's body on Suburban Dr. the afternoon of this Crane's Landing visit, hence, an alibi may have been fresh on her mind, eh?

Exactly how Casey made a connection between ZG and Sawgrass 6/16 or 6/17 remains to be seen. Note that Casey's statement indicated the ZG incident @ Sawgrass originally occurred on 6/16, and we later heard a version given to RD about a JBPark location for the abduction...and the "script" that came w/ it. Also, note AFAIK, the Sawgrass visitor card date was originally given as 4/17 and later corrected to 6/17, IIRC.

An interested local might consider spending some shoe leather to head over to Crane's Landing Apt. and check out a visitor's card. Perhaps they ask a question like, "What other properties have you visited/are you considering?". That's a long shot...but...if that info was on the card, perhaps that would provide a simple explanation to this simple question IYKWIM.

Also, FYI. IIRC, the Crane's Landing manager, Matt, was an acquaintence of Casey's and some of the Sawgrass crowd. I don't recall if it was Vicky, Kathy, or someone else, but, do recall reading that he had a conversation w/ one of them. I don't recall the timing/details surrounding that conversation - perhaps it was after the story broke, 7/08. When/if Vicky's MS page was public she had some pics posted of her having fun w/ the Lake Vaj crowd (Danny, Dante...and maybe Iassen, but, don't hold me to exact individuals) at what appeared to be a St. Patrick's Day party (and maybe a b-day party pic? @ TGIF?). FWIW, mid-March...around St. Patrick's day would've been the time Casey staying home vs. partying IIRC. So...I'm not suggesting anything nefarious on the part of these other individuals...just FYI that there isn't more than 2-degrees of separation between some of the people there. Some have investigated Vicky further via her MS and speculated that she was a significant model for Casey's version of ZG. That info should be buried in one of these threads if interested in researching further.

Of course, Casey was familiar w/ Sawgrass, in general, from her days of meeting Annie there w/ Caylee whilst Annie was Dante's live-in. That was many months before Caylee's death...if not more than a year. Dante still, AFAIK, lives @ Sawgrass, however, Annie moved out.

Hope that helps...and not confuses...things a bit.

 

[panama]

Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 3:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)

Long version: (holy crap, this feels like a lab report, but, hey, I'll go with it.)

What's the general idea?
On a whim, I searched google for "last login time myspace" (without quotes ). The first result was a really clever idea: you systematically switch your timezone and take note of when the "Last Login" date changes by a day. After some manipulation, this info will give you the hour-long range during which the Last Login took place.


What happens once you know the two timezones where the date switchover happens?
So you end up with a block of sequential timezones where the Last Login date is displayed as 10/14/08, and you have a block of sequential timezones where the date is displayed as 10/15/08. Now, let's say that the Last Login date switchover happens going from timezone1 to timezone2. This tells you that in timezone1, at the time of the last login, it's apparently before midnight since the date is 10/14/08. And in timezone2, it's after midnight since the date is 10/15/08. Then all you have to do is ask, "if it's midnight in timezone1, what time is in my timezone?" and, "if it's midnight in timezone2, what time is in my timezone?" The times that answer these two questions give you the hour range when the Last Login occurred. (If you're curious about a timezone that isn't yours, you can just substitute that timezone in for "my timezone.")

Here's an example:
Say timezone1 is GMT+3, and timezone2 is GMT+4.
You first ask, "if it is midnight in GMT+3, what time is it in GMT-4 ?"
Well,

if it's 24:00 in GMT+3 then it's 23:00 in GMT+2.
And if it's 23:00 in GMT+2, then it's 21:00 in GMT+1.
And if it's 21:00 in GMT+1, then it's 20:00 in GMT+0.
And it it's 20:00 in GMT+0, then it's 19:00 in GMT-1.
and you continue, until you get that it's 17:00, or 5pm, in GMT-3.

You do the same thing for timezone2. So, in the example, we had that timezone2 is GMT+4. Doing the above procedure, you get that midnight in GMT+4 is 4pm in GMT-4. And these two results are hour range corresponding to the time of the Last Login! So we know that in the example, the Last Login time is between 4pm and 5pm, GMT-4.

(Maybe I've gone into too much detail here... timezones always get to me, so I need to think through the conversion in detail so I don't lose track of what I'm doing.)

How to get MySpace to think you're in a particular timezone?
This was tricky.

Zeroth attempt:
I tried changing my country in myspace, but it knows I'm in the US because of my IP, and it won't let me change to a different country. Perhaps because of profile 2.0? It might have been possible to specify actual timezone in 1.0. (I apparently can't revert to 1.0 to check because I signed up after, I think, April of this year.)

First attempt:
I tried changing my system clock in Windows, but there were two problems.
(1) You can only select geographic regions, and some have random daylight saving time, and so it ended up being ambiguous as to what GMT timezone I was actually looking at.
(2) Once I thought I found the switchover threshold, it seemed like sometimes the threshold would change! Crap! I figured it had to do with caching and cookies and things, and that I needed to see what was going on there in order to get the right result.

Second attempt:
I decided to use Safari instead of firefox because it stores cookies in "plist" files, which are basically text files, and I'm kind of familiar with them. It also has simple settings in terms of caching and cookies and so on. It also loads about a billion times faster than firefox. (Alas, I'm addicted to firefox anyway.)

Anyway, it looked like the timezone myspace thinks you're in is specified in the Cookies.plist file.
It's specified in the "timeZone=X" string in the MSCulture cookie.
X = n for timezone GMT+n.
n can be negative.
(For me, in Vista, the plist file is in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\Safari\Cookies).

First, I set zenadia's page to my homepage so it would load upon opening Safari. I never logged into a myspace account. I disabled caching for good measure, and I allowed cookies from Myspace. I also opened Cookies.plist in a text editor and left it open.

Here's what I did to get the date switchover, starting with closed Safari:

1. In the plist file, change the timezone to the one I wanted.
2. Open up Safari.
3. Hit ok when the text editor would let me know that the plist file had updated. [note: myspace updates the cookies when the myspace page loads, but it doesn't change the timezone field at this point, which is good because we want the timezone to be what we specified in step 1!]
4. Look at the Last Login date immediately after safari opens up and displays the page (since it's the homepage). [After about a minute or two, the text editor would spontaneously tell me that the file updated again, and, lo and behold, the timezone would switch to my system time, and the displayed date would change or stick or other strange things!]
5. Close down safari. [The cookies file changes again when you do this, but that doesn't really matter.]
6. Write down the timezone I'd just tested, and the date that it produced.
7. goto (1).

How do you get more specific than an hour range?
I figured that myspace must store a more specific time than just an hour range. I figured I'd try... fractional timezones! Turns out, you can set n to, for example, 3.25, and myspace's servers interpret it how you'd want them to. So, 3.25 would be GMT+(3 hours and 15 minutes.)

Once I narrowed down the hour range, I'd just start adding more decimal digits to find the switchover with higher precision.

What actual results did I get?
Here's what I got.

First column is n
Second is signup date (followed by the time on my computer, just to verify that my system time didn't have an effect.)

[TABLE="3"]5 10/15/2008
4 10/14/2008 (10:23)
4.25 10/15/2008 (10:24)
4.5 10/15/2008 (10:25)
3.5 10/14/2008 (10:26)
4.1 10/14/2008 (10:27)
4.2 10/14/2008 (10:27-8)
4.3 10/15/2008 (10:28)
4.21 10/14/2008 (10:31)
4.22 10/14/2008 (10:31)
4.23 10/14/2008 (10:32)
4.24 10/15/2008 (10:33)
4.235 10/15/2008 (10:35)
4.232 10/14/2008 (10:35)
4.233 10/14/2008 (10:37) (10:42)
4.234 10/15/2008 (10:39) (10:42)[/TABLE]

Switchover
Oct. 14th: GMT+4.233
Oct. 15th: GMT+4.234

Time range for Florida
Midnight for GMT+4.233: 23.767 for GMT+4 -> 19.767 FOR GMT+0 -> 14.767 FOR GMT-5 ; 2:46:01 PM
Midnight for GMT+4.234: 23.766 for GMT+4 -> 19.766 FOR GMT+0 -> 14.766 FOR GMT-5 ; 2:45:58 PM
(EDT = GMT-5 + 1 -> between 2:45:58pm and 2:46:01pm -> 3:46pm) on 10/14/08.
I added the hour for daylight saving time because it was October.

Is any of this even correct?
I made some assumptions, perhaps some about daylight savings time, and maaaybe about timezones. [Though, the procedure works regardless of the fact that myspace has some times displayed in GMT-8/pacific by default. As long as we know that the Login happened when it was before midnight in Country A, and after midnight in Country B (where Country B is in the next timezone over), and as long as we know what the timezones of Countries A and B are, we can find out what time it was anywhere in the world when the Login happened. Things might get weird if, on myspace's end, GMT+n in the cookie translates to GMT+not n when it's daylight saving time in GMT+n regions... :doh: In conclusion, perhaps this issue could warrant further investigation, and daylight saving time can go straight to heck.]

To double check the procedure, I did the same thing to find the times that people have already established: the Signup time, and the Last Updated time. Just to see if the same procedure and assumptions gave the established results. Here's what I got:

First column is n.
Second column is the Date displated on the page.

[TABLE="1"]9 6/17 (both)
7 6/17 (both)
6 6/17 (both)
5 6/16 (both)
5.5 6/17 (both)
5.25 6/16 (both)
5.3 6/16 (both)
5.4 6/16 (both)
5.45 6/16 (both)
5.48 6/16 (both)
5.49 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.5 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.51 SIGNUP: 6/16, UPDATED: 6/17
5.52 SIGNUP: 6/17, UPDATED: 6/17[/TABLE]

Calculations:

SIGNUP:
5.51 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.51 -> 23.49 for GMT+5 -> 18.49 for GMT+0 -> 13.49 for GMT-5 ; 1:29:24
5.52 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.52 -> 23.48 FOR GMT+5 -> 18.48 for GMT+0 -> 13.48 for GMT-5 ; 1:28:48
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:28pm & 2:29pm) on 6/16/08


UPDATED:
5.48 6/16 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.48 -> 23.52 for GMT+5 -> 18.52 for GMT+0 -> 13.52 for GMT-5 ; 1:31:18
5.49 6/17 MIDNIGHT for GMT+5.49 -> 23.51 for GMT+5 -> 18.51 for GMT+0 -> 13.51 for GMT-5 ; 1:30:36
(EDT = GMT-5 +1 -> between 2:30pm & 2:31pm) on 6/16/08

I believe these times are consistent with the ones people previously found, which lends support to the Last Login time being correct.

Lastly...
If anyone wants to double check this, that would be really really cool. It seems like there's a lot of room for error, from timezones, to daylight saving nonsense, to calculations, to cookies.

I tried to test it with my own myspace account (created for testing purposes), since I know when I last Logged In. But I never saw a day switchover. I think it might be because I'm using profile 2.0.

I'm not sure what Last Login actually refers to -- when you signed in, or when you signed out. (I could see it being either). I haven't looked around for this info yet.

I think that's it. I hope the explanation make some sense. (I don't even know whether it was too detailed or not detailed enough )

 

[Just Jayla]

Great question, patty.

Someone closer to the details can correct/update add/subtract...

Best info I've seen to-date is in the the 10/09 released docs an individual indicated they expect JM's ZG to explain that she had been to Crane's Landing apt. the week of 6/16 apartment hunting and that Casey may have gleened her info there. Recall that Casey & TL visited Crane's Landing 6/19. IIRC, Tony viewed the apartment while Casey waited in the office. Based on one scenario using pings & the ADD info, Casey would've disposed of Caylee's body on Suburban Dr. the afternoon of this Crane's Landing visit, hence, an alibi may have been fresh on her mind, eh?

Exactly how Casey made a connection between ZG and Sawgrass 6/16 or 6/17 remains to be seen. Note that Casey's statement indicated the ZG incident @ Sawgrass originally occurred on 6/16, and we later heard a version given to RD about a JBPark location for the abduction...and the "script" that came w/ it. Also, note AFAIK, the Sawgrass visitor card date was originally given as 4/17 and later corrected to 6/17, IIRC.

An interested local might consider spending some shoe leather to head over to Crane's Landing Apt. and check out a visitor's card. Perhaps they ask a question like, "What other properties have you visited/are you considering?". That's a long shot...but...if that info was on the card, perhaps that would provide a simple explanation to this simple question IYKWIM.

Also, FYI. IIRC, the Crane's Landing manager, Matt, was an acquaintence of Casey's and some of the Sawgrass crowd. I don't recall if it was Vicky, Kathy, or someone else, but, do recall reading that he had a conversation w/ one of them. I don't recall the timing/details surrounding that conversation - perhaps it was after the story broke, 7/08. When/if Vicky's MS page was public she had some pics posted of her having fun w/ the Lake Vaj crowd (Danny, Dante...and maybe Iassen, but, don't hold me to exact individuals) at what appeared to be a St. Patrick's Day party (and maybe a b-day party pic? @ TGIF?). FWIW, mid-March...around St. Patrick's day would've been the time Casey staying home vs. partying IIRC. So...I'm not suggesting anything nefarious on the part of these other individuals...just FYI that there isn't more than 2-degrees of separation between some of the people there. Some have investigated Vicky further via her MS and speculated that she was a significant model for Casey's version of ZG. That info should be buried in one of these threads if interested in researching further.

Of course, Casey was familiar w/ Sawgrass, in general, from her days of meeting Annie there w/ Caylee whilst Annie was Dante's live-in. That was many months before Caylee's death...if not more than a year. Dante still, AFAIK, lives @ Sawgrass, however, Annie moved out.

Hope that helps...and not confuses...things a bit.

Maybe VickiA ties in here, as you wrote-Doesn't she have a toddler named Zachary? And/or referred to Michele and Jasmin (sp.) on her MySpace?

There is a VickiA on iclerk that would be close to KC in age, that was arrested for disorderly conduct in october of last year, here's that link:

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/mycler...ec8-4aac-bb52-8a3dab614763&CaseID=6086571#Sen

ETA-I don't mean she necessarily has to tie in in a negative way, either, not saying she helped KC....maybe KC saw her around that time, in one of the apartment clubhouses, something....and KC incorporated her

 

[cecybeans]

Holy guacamole panama! You are blinding me with science! Thanks for such patient unravelling of that cyber conundrum.

I have only one question - what time did KC get carted off to jail the day she was indicted? If it is impossible for her to have actually logged in from a computer could she have logged in from a cellphone? Also, if the account was logged into from a computer, would it be possible to identify the IP if it was JB's office? If that's the case, he or someone in his office would have had to do it while she was waiting at OCSO to "cooperate". Either that or a family member could have done it at the residence. This of course, would mean she had an accomplice. I wonder what the password was for logging in? Did anyone try stuff out before it froze?

(well those certainly weren't just one question, sorry!)

 

[BondJamesBond]

Ok, I think I figured something out.

Short version: I believe that the time associated with the 10/14/08 "Last Login" for the zenadia myspace is about 4:46pm, Eastern Daylight Time (GMT-5 +1)

*snipped*

Thanks for the detail, panama. Much appreciated.

FWIW...this report indicates Casey was being escorted into OCSO @ 4:40PM on 10/14 http://www.wftv.com/news/17705500/detail.html