Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #11

[Arkay]

My opinion here is generalized and not directed at any one specific person.

I am frankly incredulous that anyone would be against Israel in this situation. Israel did not ask for this cataclysm. Hamas, along with Iran, engineered the entire massacre.

Yes, people in Gaza are suffering but it is due to the deplorable actions of terrorists who raped, kidnapped, beheaded, tortured, tied up and set aflame children, women, the elderly, infirm, and men who were just sleeping, eating breakfast, dancing.

Hamas has been around a long time. They knew that Israel would have no choice but to defend its nation. This, while the leaders of Hamas are not on scene and Hamas is hiding in their tunnels like the filthy rats they are.

Israel has used every available means to warn the civilians in Gaza to vacate so they wouldn’t get hurt. Sure, no one wants to evacuate, but how much do you think the Israelis would have given to be forewarned, in Hebrew, that they were going to be massacred? Even their infants, even Holocaust survivors?

Israelis have had to be evacuated too because their homes are uninhabitable and because rockets are being fired at them from north and south. But they had to evacuate AFTER their families were tortured, slaughtered, and taken hostage.

Lest we forget, the civilians in Gaza were celebratory after the massacre, and joined in the abuse of the Israelis kidnapped across the border. Yet Israel is following international law and trying to avoid civilian casualties.

Please, people, what would you or I do if it were our families? If someone broke into your home at dawn, tied up your children in front of you while you watched them burn to ashes? Raped your daughters, your mothers, your sisters in front of you? Forced your little children to watch you die?

Are you genuinely saying that if you survived, you would take no steps to keep this from happening to your home again? Would you shrug your shoulders and do NOTHING?


IMO

 

[JennieM]

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth communications blackout since 7 October, and the first caused by lack of fuel. As a result, this Flash Update contains minimal updated information about the humanitarian situation in Gaza over the past 24 hours.

The telecommunications shutdown has brought the already challenging delivery of humanitarian assistance to an almost complete halt, including life-saving assistance to people injured or trapped under the rubble as a result of airstrikes and clashes.

On 17 November, the Israeli authorities informed UNRWA that as of 18 November they would allow the entry into Gaza of a daily amount of 60,000 litres of fuel from Egypt. This is about 37 per cent of the fuel needed by the agency to support humanitarian operations, including food distribution, and operation of generators at hospitals and water and sanitation facilities.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[JennieM]

The World Food Programme (WFP) has reported an increase in cases of dehydration and malnutrition and warned about the threat of starvation due to the collapsed food supply chain and insufficient aid delivery. Only 10 per cent of necessary food supplies have entered Gaza since the beginning of the hostilities.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[JennieM]

Hospitals and medical personnel are specifically protected under international humanitarian law (IHL) and all parties to the conflict must ensure their protection. Hospitals must not be used to shield military objectives from attack. Any military operation around or within hospitals must take steps to spare and protect the patients, medical staff, and other civilians. All feasible precautions must be taken, including effective warnings, which consider the ability of patients, medical staff, and other civilians to evacuate safely.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[JennieM]

In a briefing to the UN General Assembly informal plenary meeting on Gaza delivered today, the Emergency Relief Coordinator, Martin Griffiths, reiterated his call for a humanitarian ceasefire and stressed the need to operate at least one additional crossing for the entry of humanitarian and commercial goods. He reiterated his call for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages taken from Israel and held in Gaza.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[JennieM]

According to the Palestinian Journalist Syndicate in Gaza,
45 Palestinian journalists have been killed since 7 October.

According to MoH,
more than 198 Palestinian medics have been killed.

According to the Palestinian Civil Defense,
at least 12 of its members have been killed.

And according to UNRWA,
103 of their staff have been killed since 7 October.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[JennieM]

Displacement (Gaza Strip)​

• On 17 November, the Israeli military continued calling on residents in the north to evacuate to the south through a “corridor” along the main traffic artery, Salah Ad Deen Road, between 7:00 and 16:00. However, due to the telecommunication blackout, OCHA was unable to monitor the movement of people and estimate their number.

• As of 11 November, there were about 807,000 Palestinians living in the north, constituting about two-thirds of the pre-war population, according to an estimate by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS). Reports by humanitarian partners suggest that a large percentage of those remaining in the north, possibly the majority, have been displaced. Many of them have lost their homes and are moving within the area, seeking food, water, accommodation and relative safety.

• Over 1.5 million people in Gaza are estimated to be internally displaced, including about 830,000 IDPs who are staying in at least 154 UNRWA shelters. UNRWA shelters are accommodating far more people than their intended capacity and are unable to accommodate new arrivals. According to preliminary reports, thousands of IDPs are seeking security and safety by sleeping against the walls of shelters in the south, out in the open.

• Overcrowding is contributing to the spread of diseases, including acute respiratory illness and diarrhea, prompting environmental and health concerns. On average, there is one shower unit for every 700 people and a single toilet for every 150 people. The congestion is affecting UNRWA's ability to provide effective and timely services.

• See the live IDP dashboard for the latest figures and more breakdowns.

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel | Flash Update #42

Since 16 November at about 16:00 and as of 22:00 on 17 November, contact with the Gaza Strip has been largely cut off, following the shutdown of landlines, cellular, and internet services due to the depletion of fuel used to run generators by telecommunications providers. This is the fourth...

www.ochaopt.org

 

[Momoffourboys]

With great sorrow @MASHAVisrael
learned of the discovery of the body of Clemence Felix Mtenga, a #Tanzanian student who arrived to #ısrael to participate in the Agricultural Internship program & was murdered by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7. May he rest in peace
@IsraelinKenya

https://twitter.com/x/status/1725626620952641839

(sounds like he was murdered and his body taken to Gaza)

 

[SouthAussie]

1m ago

Brunei, Indonesia and Malaysia have called for an immediate, durable and sustained humanitarian truce leading to cessation of hostilities in the Gaza Strip, Reuters reports.

The countries said they were issuing their statement to give a better and fair reflection of the discussions on the Gaza situation during a meeting of leaders from the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (Apec) in San Francisco.

Israeli forces ‘determined to advance’, says military – as it happened

Daniel Hagari’s comments come amid mounting concerns about Israeli plans to expand military operations where people have sought refuge from fighting

www.theguardian.com

Though there are 21 countries who are members of APEC, so that is quite a minority who have called for the truce.

In the end, APEC leaders divided on Ukraine, Gaza but together on WTO reform

APEC's 21 member economies are Australia; Brunei Darussalam; Canada; Chile; People's Republic of China; Hong Kong, China; Indonesia; Japan; Republic of Korea; Malaysia; Mexico; New Zealand; Papua New Guinea; Peru; The Philippines; The Russian Federation; Singapore; Chinese Taipei; Thailand; United States of America; and Viet Nam. Link

 

[Momoffourboys]

When I was asked about the criticism in the world on the i24 channel, I turned to the international community: What do you want us to do? Shall we die politely? Shall we die in peace? We are not going to do that.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1723351870771515439

 

[MyBelle]

Though there are 21 countries who are members of APEC, so that is quite a minority who have called for the truce.

In the end, APEC leaders divided on Ukraine, Gaza but together on WTO reform

APEC's 21 member economies are Australia; Brunei Darussalam; Canada; Chile; People's Republic of China; Hong Kong, China; Indonesia; Japan; Republic of Korea; Malaysia; Mexico; New Zealand; Papua New Guinea; Peru; The Philippines; The Russian Federation; Singapore; Chinese Taipei; Thailand; United States of America; and Viet Nam. Link

It sounds like the majority avoided discussion because they weren't comfortable with discussing an issue they called, "geopolitical."
JMO

From your link:
It said the leaders exchanged views on the Gaza crisis, with some objecting to language of the chair’s statement in an accompanying “Golden Gate Declaration” covering economic issues “on the basis that they do not believe that APEC is a forum to discuss geopolitical issues”.

Some APEC leaders shared the united messages of the November 11 joint Arab-Islamic summit in Riyadh, the chair’s statement said.

​

 

[SouthAussie]

On Friday, the IDF took 5 foreign journalists into northern Gaza - 3 of the journalists were from the NY Times.
The journalists had to promise to turn off their phones (so they couldn't be tracked), and take no photos of the IDF soldiers faces or the inside of their vehicles.

Of course, after 42 days of bombings the territory looked unfamiliar to the writer of this article - even though he had spent time there at least a dozen times previously.

They saw no Palestinian people at all, they saw no lights on in any houses that were still intact (it was nighttime).
But they were taken to see the tunnel entrance that the IDF unearthed on Thursday in the grounds of the Al-Shifa hospital.

The IDF have sent a drone down the shaft and can see electrical wires down there, but they have not ventured into the tunnel.

A Journey Into Northern Gaza: Ruins, Wreckage and Darkness

New York Times journalists traveled with an Israeli military convoy to catch a rare glimpse of conditions in wartime Gaza. They saw houses flattened like playing cards and a city utterly disfigured.

www.nytimes.com

(Apologies if this has been posted already, I have missed a bunch of pages of the thread)

 

[Warwick1991]

There seems to be an uptick in Hamas announcements of hostage deaths in the last few days. First the 19 year old female soldier, then the 64 year old woman recently diagnosed with breast cancer, now the 84 year old man allegedly from heart attack.

Is Hamas worried that IDF will start finding hostage bodies, so they are trying to pre-emptively attribute their deaths to causes other than abuse?

Given that many of the hostages were older, retired people in need of daily medications, a substantial number may already be deceased.

 

[PapillonVert]

Does he mean this? From what I’ve been reading they have not uncovered anything else inside the hospital other the initial find of these guns and magazines. From news agencies nothing has been confirmed yet in regards to a command center, but maybe I missed it.



View attachment 461740
IDF

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67423274

Israel has not found what it is looking for yet.

I don’t think we know everything that Israel has found. I think they’ve shared with us what they could declassify and who knows what they are holding close to the vest because they don’t want to endanger the rest of the operations.

I thought I'd read that some civilian Palestinians, not necessarily affiliated with Hamas, also took hostages ?
So, possibly more are abducted ?

I also hope that's not true about only 25-50 hostages left.
Makes me seethe.
Omo.

Post # 159 in this thread has a link to story about how some Palestinians (civilians?) took home hostages -
“Hamas only holds some 150 Israeli hostages and the Islamic Jihad around 30. The rest are held by Palestinians who had crossed the border on Oct 7 and returned home 'with a pet Israeli' in tow“ Rami Igra, former Mossad chief of hostage rescue, tells @laura_i24”


Post in thread 'Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #11'

 

[MyBelle]

On Friday, the IDF took 5 foreign journalists into northern Gaza - 3 of the journalists were from the NY Times.
The journalists had to promise to turn off their phones (so they couldn't be tracked), and take no photos of the IDF soldiers faces or the inside of their vehicles.

Of course, after 42 days of bombings the territory looked unfamiliar to the writer of this article - even though he had spent time there at least a dozen times previously.

They saw no Palestinian people at all, they saw no lights on in any houses that were still intact (it was nighttime).
But they were taken to see the tunnel entrance that the IDF unearthed on Thursday in the grounds of the Al-Shifa hospital.

The IDF have sent a drone down the shaft and can see electrical wires down there, but they have not ventured into the tunnel.

A Journey Into Northern Gaza: Ruins, Wreckage and Darkness

New York Times journalists traveled with an Israeli military convoy to catch a rare glimpse of conditions in wartime Gaza. They saw houses flattened like playing cards and a city utterly disfigured.

www.nytimes.com

(Apologies if this has been posted already, I have missed a bunch of pages of the thread)

They may have seen electrical wires but since Israel shut-off the electricity, I doubt any hostages were held there for a long period of time.

JMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

Given that many of the hostages were older, retired people in need of daily medications, a substantial number may already be deceased.

IMO many of them were injured when taken to Gaza. The elderly lady that was released early on said she was beaten. Who beats an old lady? Was she a threat to these demented savages?

 

[Chimera]

On Friday, the IDF took 5 foreign journalists into northern Gaza - 3 of the journalists were from the NY Times.
The journalists had to promise to turn off their phones (so they couldn't be tracked), and take no photos of the IDF soldiers faces or the inside of their vehicles.

Of course, after 42 days of bombings the territory looked unfamiliar to the writer of this article - even though he had spent time there at least a dozen times previously.

They saw no Palestinian people at all, they saw no lights on in any houses that were still intact (it was nighttime).
But they were taken to see the tunnel entrance that the IDF unearthed on Thursday in the grounds of the Al-Shifa hospital.

The IDF have sent a drone down the shaft and can see electrical wires down there, but they have not ventured into the tunnel.

A Journey Into Northern Gaza: Ruins, Wreckage and Darkness

New York Times journalists traveled with an Israeli military convoy to catch a rare glimpse of conditions in wartime Gaza. They saw houses flattened like playing cards and a city utterly disfigured.

www.nytimes.com

(Apologies if this has been posted already, I have missed a bunch of pages of the thread)

Emphasis mine.
Thanks for linking.
They need to be careful about trip wires or booby traps.
Omo.

 

[SouthAussie]

Emphasis mine.
Thanks for linking.
They need to be careful about trip wires or booby traps.
Omo.

Yes, I posted an article earlier about their work in destroying the tunnels, as said by an IDF person.
They have already lost 4 soldiers who uncovered a tunnel and an explosion went off.


ETA: link

With mapping robots and blast gel, Israel wages war on Hamas tunnels

After locating what they described as the entrance to a Hamas tunnel under an evacuated hospital in northern Gaza, Israeli army engineers filled the passage with exploding gel and hit the detonator.

www.reuters.com

 

[SouthAussie]

They may have seen electrical wires but since Israel shut-off the electricity, I doubt any hostages were held there for a long period of time.

JMO

I doubt that Hamas has no electricity themselves. I think they would have fuel, they would have generators. I read a few weeks ago (linked here somewhere) that they had planned their attack for at least a year.
Presumably also planning for any contingency, like no power.

Maybe not enough power to spare to run their whole network of tunnels, but enough to keep some hidden place(s) operable.

imo

 

[MyBelle]

I doubt that Hamas has no electricity themselves. I think they would have fuel, they would have generators. I read a few weeks ago (linked here somewhere) that they had planned their attack for at least a year.

Maybe not enough power to spare to run their whole network of tunnels, but enough to keep some hidden place(s) operable.

imo

I doubt those generators are in the tunnels. Our generator sits outside our home.

JMO