Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

[Momoffourboys]

That's Hama's fault. Not the ICRC. If the ICRC doesn't have access to the hostages, then they can't provide meds. Did Hamas contact the ICRC? Because the hostages were hidden and I believe they were only contacted when they were released. I don't know how the ICRC could help if they didn't have access to the hostages.

IMO that was part of the ceasefire agreement. The Red Cross was to be granted access to the hostages.ETA She mentions Red Cross. Not ICRC
This from Rachel Goldberg Polin:

While the family has been reaching out to the Red Cross and other humanitarian organizations every day since October 7, they have been told by each organization that they would be willing to visit the hostages but that Hamas wasn’t letting them in.

“We thought they were not pushing enough,” said Goldberg. “Then the Red Cross went in to see Gaza civilians.”

Goldberg-Polin’s parents and other families of the hostages then hoped the Red Cross would see one hostage for each Gazan civilian, “but that didn’t happen either,” said Goldberg.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mother-of-hostage-held-in-gaza-pans-red-cross-as-uber-for-released-hostages/

Red Cross yet to see remaining hostages, despite US and Israeli claims such visits were part of truce

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Does that mean that Hamas does not cooperate with Red Cross (and Red Crescent) or the UN, or the UNWRA?

The Hamas government doesn't cooperate with the Red Cross, the UN, or the WHO, yet the government and their soldiers, in uniform, follow the orders of good rich men in Qatar?

The Palestinian Red Crescent is a local thing that drives their ambulances and does field work. The International Committee of the Red Cross is called in for war time efforts. ICRC are not Palestinians. The ICRC works in hostage negotiation, but it only works between two willing parties. Unless Hamas is willing, the ICRC doesn't get involved. In this case, they provided rides to Egypt. Hamas drove the hostages to a parking lot. They met the ICRC in the parking lot. They were transferred to ICRC vehicles and the ICRC drove the hostages to Egypt. That's it. They did not visit hostages in the tunnels or stash houses. Hamas did not want them to find out their location.

Maybe the Red Crescent, who are affiliated with Hamas, visited the hostages, but the ICRC was not invited.

 

[Friday Fan]

IMO that was part of the ceasefire agreement. The Red Cross was to be granted access to the hostages.ETA She mentions Red Cross. Not ICRC
This from Rachel Goldberg Polin:

While the family has been reaching out to the Red Cross and other humanitarian organizations every day since October 7, they have been told by each organization that they would be willing to visit the hostages but that Hamas wasn’t letting them in.

“We thought they were not pushing enough,” said Goldberg. “Then the Red Cross went in to see Gaza civilians.”

Goldberg-Polin’s parents and other families of the hostages then hoped the Red Cross would see one hostage for each Gazan civilian, “but that didn’t happen either,” said Goldberg.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mother-of-hostage-held-in-gaza-pans-red-cross-as-uber-for-released-hostages/

Red Cross yet to see remaining hostages, despite US and Israeli claims such visits were part of truce

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

But that's on Hamas. Hamas only met ICRC in parking lots to hand off the hostages. They didn't allow them in their stash houses and the ICRC didn't know where they were.

Frequently asked questions on ICRC and the hostages held in Gaza

www.icrc.org

People are getting the Hamas run Palestinian Red Crescent mixed up with International Committee of the Red Cross in this thread. Families may not understand all of this either if they were told something else.


[URL

 

[Leve]

What’s happening on the ground: Khaled Abu Samra, a doctor at the hospital, told CNN they were given 30 minutes’ warning before the Israeli operation on the complex began.
Khader Al Za’anoun, a journalist inside the hospital, told CNN that Israeli tanks had moved into the hospital complex, and there were gunfire exchanges across the yard. It’s unclear whether there are IDF soldiers inside the hospital buildings, Al Za’anoun said.

What we know about Israel’s raid on Al-Shifa hospital

Israeli forces raided Gaza's biggest hospital in what the military said was a "precise and targeted operation." Soldiers found "military equipment used by Hamas," the military said in a statement but offered no evidence yet of a vast tunnel network it claimed was used by Hamas.

edition.cnn.com

Dr Khaled Abu Samra is a doctor in the Al Shifra hospital.

The five infants who were deliberately left to die of starvation and whose decomposing remains were found when access to the hospital was allowed were in the ICU of the Al-Nasr hospital.

Oops sorry, I don't have any info on that one.

 

[Simply Southern]

The Palestinian Red Crescent is a local thing that drives their ambulances and does field work. The International Committee of the Red Cross is called in for war time efforts. ICRC are not Palestinians. The ICRC works in hostage negotiation, but it only works between two willing parties. Unless Hamas is willing, the ICRC doesn't get involved. In this case, they provided rides to Egypt. Hamas drove the hostages to a parking lot. They met the ICRC in the parking lot. They were transferred to ICRC vehicles and the ICRC drove the hostages to Egypt. That's it. They did not visit them. Maybe the Red Crescent visited the hostages, but the ICRC was not invited.

They are one in the same, Red Crescent is only Muslims

About the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement

The International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement is the world's largest humanitarian network, dedicated to preventing and alleviating suffering.

www.icrc.org

The International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement is a global humanitarian network of 80 million people that helps those facing disaster, conflict and health and social problems. It consists of the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies and the 192 National Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

Red Cross and Red Crescent | History, Principles, Movement, & Facts

Red Cross and Red Crescent, humanitarian agency with national affiliates in almost every country of the world. The Red Cross movement began with the founding of the International Committee for the Relief of the Wounded (now the International Committee of the Red Cross) in 1863.

www.britannica.com

The Red Cross is the name used in countries under nominally Christian sponsorship, while Red Crescent (adopted on the insistence of the Ottoman Empire in 1906) is the name used in Muslim countries.

 

[PommyMommy]

4hr ago

US warship shoots down drone launched from Yemen​

An American destroyer shot down a drone today that was launched from a part of Yemen controlled by the Iran-backed Houthi rebels, the US military’s Central Command says.

“At approximately 1100 (Sanaa time), while in the South Red Sea, the Arleigh-Burke Class Guided Missile Destroyer USS Carney (DDG 64) shot down an Iranian-produced KAS04 unmanned aerial vehicle launched from Huthi-controlled areas of Yemen,” CENTCOM says in a statement.

2hr ago

If Hamas proposal for release of next group of hostages doesn’t change, war to resume, says source​

An Israeli source tells Channel 12 early Thursday that if Hamas’s proposal for the release of the next group of Israeli hostages doesn’t change by morning, Israel would resume fighting.

Israel’s war cabinet is meeting to weigh proposals to extend the truce, now in its sixth day, if more hostages are released, specifically women and children

 

[Momoffourboys]

BREAKING: Hamas has stated early Thursday morning that they are ready to resume fighting with Israel if the ceasefire expires at 7 a.m.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1730065366477320504

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr:

Thinking about Kfir, and remembering the walkthrough video of IDF and reporter showing evidence of hostages being held in the basement of a hospital, including the baby bottle along with the chair, rope, weapons, and calendar on the wall showing the shifts logged of Hamas guarding them.

We should find that image in the video, and see how many shifts are logged. This would potentially indicate how long they were held in that basement, fwiw.

Iirc, there were two different videos I posted. The first one did not show as much as the second one.

—-

Eta:

Video 1:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10





Video 2:
Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #10



Baby bottle at 1:43
List of guards’ shifts at 2:10

IF Shiri, Kfir, and Ariel were held here (“female hostage” and “baby bottle”), iirc from the first video there was a tunnel right by an IDF-strike-targeted terrorist leader’s residence (with the solar panels) that led to the hospital (and was near a school). There were also some destroyed buildings right by that hospital, iirc. Of course there are destroyed buildings everywhere, but I wonder if their remains can possibly be found there. Was this leader’s home targeted PIJ or Hamas. Posting these thoughts before I examine the video so as to not forget my train of thought. Going in for a look, iirc it was the first CNN video.


—-

Eta: “Rantisi Children’s Hospital”

A commercially available satellite image showing Al-Rantisi hospital in Gaza on Nov. 7.Credit...Maxar Technologies, via Reuters


“Monday’s video included footage of a piece of paper taped to a wall in the hospital’s basement. Admiral Hagari said the paper — a grid with Arabic words and numbers within each square — could be a schedule for guarding hostages “where every terrorist writes his name.”

The paper included a mark that appeared to be an illegible signature, but did not seem to otherwise include people’s names — the Arabic words were days of the week and numbers underneath dates. The Gazan Health Ministry said in a statement that the paper, including days and dates, was nothing more than “a regular work shift timetable, a standard administrative practice in hospitals.”

The ministry, however, failed to address one key detail: The calendar begins on Oct. 7, the day of the Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, and an Arabic title written at the top uses the militants’ name for the assault: “Al Aqsa Flood Battle, 7/10/2023.””

Israel Shows Videos of Gaza Hospital Basement It Says Was Used by Hamas

Israel released two videos from inside Gaza’s main children’s hospital that showed weapons and explosives. Gazan health officials denied the hospital was used for military purposes.

www.nytimes.com

—-

Eta2: Video 1 says “A Hamas Commander lived there” and mentions smell of rotting smell of flesh buried beneath rubble. IDF was clearing that area. IDF says patients were evacuated from that hospital five days earlier.

 

[Mex]

The tunnels below them had electricity and water. If Hamas wanted to save the babies they could have. I can't believe any doctor or nurse would leave the hospital and leave newborns behind. That sounds like BS. JMO


Thirty minutes? How many babies could you move in 30 minutes? I could move quite a few. And I'd move as many as I could before I left them behind.

At the time, the international medical organisation Doctors Without Borders said that medical workers had to abandon premature babies in incubators as they were forced to evacuate.

According to reports at the time, the doctors communicated with both the Israeli military and the International Committee of the Red Cross to warn about the risk to the babies in the ICU.

Israel left premature babies to die alone in Gaza hospital

A correspondent for the Arabic language channel Al-Mashhad TV reported from inside the Al Nasr Children's Hospital the discovery of decomposing bodies of several premature babies left alone in the hospital Israel forcefully evacuated.

www.newarab.com

Al-Kahlot stated that he informed the Israeli occupation army officer, who warned them of the final evacuation, of the condition of the five children on respirators and that they could not be transferred, and he informed him that he was aware of this and would deal with it.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-israel-left-premature-palestinian-babies-to-die-alone-after-evacuating-gaza-hospital/

 

[katydid23]

What’s happening on the ground: Khaled Abu Samra, a doctor at the hospital, told CNN they were given 30 minutes’ warning before the Israeli operation on the complex began.
Khader Al Za’anoun, a journalist inside the hospital, told CNN that Israeli tanks had moved into the hospital complex, and there were gunfire exchanges across the yard. It’s unclear whether there are IDF soldiers inside the hospital buildings, Al Za’anoun said.

What we know about Israel’s raid on Al-Shifa hospital

Israeli forces raided Gaza's biggest hospital in what the military said was a "precise and targeted operation." Soldiers found "military equipment used by Hamas," the military said in a statement but offered no evidence yet of a vast tunnel network it claimed was used by Hamas.

edition.cnn.com

Dr Khaled Abu Samra is a doctor in the Al Shifra hospital.

The five infants who were deliberately left to die of starvation and whose decomposing remains were found when access to the hospital was allowed were in the ICU of the Al-Nasr hospital.

There were only five infants that needed to be evacuated and the doctors left them behind to starve to death?

 

[fred&edna]

A harrowing video published by Al-Mashhad TV shows premature Palestinian babies dead in the care ward of the Al-Nasr Hospital in northern Gaza. Doctors were forced to leave the babies behind in the hospital after they were reportedly given 30 minutes to evacuate the hospital by Israeli forces and leave patients.

Forced?!!! How much time do you need to get 5 babies??

Doctors Without Borders were in a panic on Oct 11 as there was only enough fuel to last 3-4 days. They had been warned. Lies upon lies.

jmo

 

[JennieM]

There were only five infants that needed to be evacuated and the doctors left them behind to starve to death?

Al-Kahlot stated that he informed the Israeli occupation army officer, who warned them of the final evacuation, of the condition of the five children on respirators and that they could not be transferred, and he informed him that he was aware of this and would deal with it.

Due to the lack of response and lack of specialist equipment to preserve their lives during the evacuation, the doctors were forced to leave them inside the hospital with the Israeli officer’s promise to care for them. The children were left to die, quietly and alone.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-israel-left-premature-palestinian-babies-to-die-alone-after-evacuating-gaza-hospital/

 

[katydid23]

At the time, the international medical organisation Doctors Without Borders said that medical workers had to abandon premature babies in incubators as they were forced to evacuate.

According to reports at the time, the doctors communicated with both the Israeli military and the International Committee of the Red Cross to warn about the risk to the babies in the ICU.

Israel left premature babies to die alone in Gaza hospital

A correspondent for the Arabic language channel Al-Mashhad TV reported from inside the Al Nasr Children's Hospital the discovery of decomposing bodies of several premature babies left alone in the hospital Israel forcefully evacuated.

www.newarab.com

Al-Kahlot stated that he informed the Israeli occupation army officer, who warned them of the final evacuation, of the condition of the five children on respirators and that they could not be transferred, and he informed him that he was aware of this and would deal with it.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-israel-left-premature-palestinian-babies-to-die-alone-after-evacuating-gaza-hospital/

That sounds like BS to me. No one was going to grab the five babies out of the doctors arms as they evacuated. They had 30 minutes to leave, plenty of time to evacuate the babies.

That is ridiculous to say that a doctor would leave the hospital to escape the upcoming gunfire and grenades---and leave 5 babies behind with the occupying soldiers. Most Doctors don't abandon babies and run for their own lives, imo. JMO

 

[fred&edna]

First aid trucks started arriving in Gaza on Oct 20... where was the "medical priority committee"??!!!!

Oh wait... Hamas comes first.

BLAME HAMAS! And, the Red Cross, Red Crescent, WHO and all the others!

 

[katydid23]

Al-Kahlot stated that he informed the Israeli occupation army officer, who warned them of the final evacuation, of the condition of the five children on respirators and that they could not be transferred, and he informed him that he was aware of this and would deal with it.

Why would the doctors leave it up to an occupation Army officer to evacuate the babies. The hospital had been warned for quite some time they needed to evacuate. They should have asked one of their Hamas friends to help them do so by borrowing the generator.

They have ambulances at their disposal. Why didn't they use one ? Where was the REd Cross and the UN? Are we to believe the UN couldn't get an ambulance with working oxygen to evacuate the 5 babies?

Due to the lack of response and lack of specialist equipment to preserve their lives during the evacuation, the doctors were forced to leave them inside the hospital with the Israeli officer’s promise to care for them. The children were left to die, quietly and alone.

That sounds like total propaganda to me. JMO

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231129-israel-left-premature-palestinian-babies-to-die-alone-after-evacuating-gaza-hospital/

 

[fred&edna]

Sheesh... talk about propaganda!! Pardon me while I grab my waders! Mine sure are getting a LOT of use.

 

[Mex]

A video posted directly by Israel's Defence Forces claimed that it had found Hamas weapons and technology, as well as a "list of terrorist names" in Arabic, showing each agents' rota guarding Israeli hostages under the Al-Rantisi Children's Hospital in Gaza. However, a translation of the document shows that it contains no names but instead a calendar of the days of the week. Vedika Bahl explains in this episode of Truth or Fake.

 

[JennieM]

59 min ago

Thai foreign ministry identifies 4 released hostages​

From CNN's Kocha Olarn in Bangkok

Thai nationals walk to a bus as they leave the Shamir Hospital in Ramle, Israel, on Wednesday, November 29, on their way back to Thailand. Maya Levin/AP

Thailand's foreign affairs ministry identified four Thai hostages who were released by Hamas Wednesday.
The names of those released are as follows:

• Paiboon Rattanin
• Kong Saelao
• Jakkrapan Srikeina
• Chalermchai Sangkaew

The four are now at Shamir Medical Center, where they are undergoing medical checkups.

"MFA warmly extends its congratulations to the recently released and reiterates its urgent call for the release of the remaining hostages," the ministry said in a statement.

Some former Thai hostages will arrive back home in Thailand on Thursday. Their flight is expected to arrive in Bangkok at 3:10 a.m. ET.

A total of 23 Thai hostages have been released since the October 7 attacks, and nine remain in captivity, according to the Thai foreign ministry.

November 29, 2023 Israel-Hamas war

A temporary truce between Israel and Hamas has been extended to a seventh day, Israel Defense Forces said Thursday morning.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Friday Fan]

They are one in the same, Red Crescent is only Muslims

About the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement

The International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement is the world's largest humanitarian network, dedicated to preventing and alleviating suffering.

www.icrc.org

The International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement is a global humanitarian network of 80 million people that helps those facing disaster, conflict and health and social problems. It consists of the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies and the 192 National Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

Red Cross and Red Crescent | History, Principles, Movement, & Facts

Red Cross and Red Crescent, humanitarian agency with national affiliates in almost every country of the world. The Red Cross movement began with the founding of the International Committee for the Relief of the Wounded (now the International Committee of the Red Cross) in 1863.

www.britannica.com

The Red Cross is the name used in countries under nominally Christian sponsorship, while Red Crescent (adopted on the insistence of the Ottoman Empire in 1906) is the name used in Muslim countries.

<modsnip>

I just typed this huge post and I have to post screenshots because the IRCS website does not cut and paste.

You can read my post here. Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #13

They're not the same thing!! The Red Cross has local chapters and teaches CPR. They also have blood drives and they provide disaster aid etc. The ICRC works in war and conflict situations. You can't get take CPR classes from the ICRC. The ICRC is based in Geneva. The American Red Cross is based in the US. Local chapters are based locally. The Palestinian Red Crescent is based in Gaza and the West Bank. I can't take CPR classes at the Palestinian Red Crescent because they aren't here. Plus they have ambulances. American Red Cross doesn't have ambulances etc etc.

Feel free to believe all sorts of bad stuff about ICRC and the American Red Cross. However, rumors that the American Red Cross and the ICRC are terrorist organizations are hurtful to the people who need the services. I fail to see how babysitting and CPR classes are affiliated with terrorist groups.

 

[Brightchaser47]

I believe 'sleeper cells' are everywhere.
I.e., the bolded in my post # 1,316 -- from the bbc link.
Omo.

Given the global protests and their violence, sadly I have to agree....