Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023

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Radical pro-Palestinian mob in NYC destroy Israeli flag

The Israeli flag was shredded and stamped on by pro-Palestinian demonstrators in New York City on Monday - the second day of rival gatherings in support of Israelis and Palestinians.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

-A pro-Palestine crowd with their faces covered ripped apart an Israeli flag in Manhattan on Monday chanting their wish for Israelis to die, as they faced off with a pro-Israel group yelling at the Palestinians: They all need to die now!'

-In Boston, another pro-Palestine group stood on the U.S. flag, calling the United States 'legit gangsters'.

In Manhattan, near the Israeli consulate, one member of the pro-Palestine group shouted, according to The New York Post: 'We gotta kill them all! We're going to kill them all! You better leave our country! You better get out of there!'

Jesse, 45, of Nolita, told the paper he thought Hamas' attack was justified.

'Fighting back isn't terrorism,' he said, brandishing a sign that read: 'End aid to racist Israel.'
 
Militants threw grenades into bomb shelters and shot into passing cars near festival site, new videos show (cnn.com)
14 min ago

IDF is committed to "making sure Hamas doesn't have any military capabilities" by war's end, spokesperson says​

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are committed to ensuring Hamas "doesn't have any military capabilities" by the end of the war, Lt Col. Jonathan Conricus, IDF international spokesperson, told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday.

There have been attempts by Hamas militants to breach the southern border for suicide missions to kill civilians and soldiers, Conricus said, as fighting between Israel and Hamas intensifies.

And in response, the IDF has saturated the southern border with troops and continued conducting air strikes while working to rebuild their defense systems, Conricus said.

"The issue here is that we have been tasked with mitigating or making sure that Hamas doesn't have any military capabilities at the end of the war. And that will be achieved," Conricus explained.

"What happens on the way and how we implement that task will be seen. But at this stage, we continue to strike from the air. And there are plans to, of course, expand that. And the troops, the reserves, and the regular units that are amassing along the southern border are readying for their tasks," he said.
 
shotgun09 said:
From what I have read previously, it appears as though the US also pays well, ( 6 Billion US dollars ) along with exchanging prisoners...

Hmm

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
This is misinformation. This theory that U.S taxpayer money funded these attacks from Hamas is false. This $6 billion fund, supervised by the U.S Treasury, is used only for humanitarian purposes and there's no evidence it had an impact on Hamas.

The article I'm citing is paywalled but the Wikipedia section on this war offers a good summary under the "Misinformation" section.

Trump’s Claim that U.S. Taxpayer Money Funded Hamas Attacks Is False
October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict - Wikipedia
 
Israel Gaza live news: Netanyahu says action only just begun as Hamas threatens to kill hostages - BBC News
Posted at 20:1020:10

Rescuing hostages is the challenge - Israel's former intelligence deputy​

The BBC has been hearing from Doron Kempel, former deputy chief of the Sayeret Matkal - Israel's elite commando unit.

"The challenge is how to know enough about where the hostages are and how to time the assault such that you can at one time break into wherever they’re being held and save as many of them as possible," he tells BBC's Newsday programme.

He adds that what confuses the situation is the hostages are not within areas of Israeli control.

Posted at 20:4820:48

Ground invasion of Gaza is no silver bullet​

There is an assumption in some quarters that the threat to Israel from Hamas can somehow be eliminated once and for all with a full-scale invasion on the ground.

History would suggest this is unlikely to be the silver bullet some are hoping for.

When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014, more than 2,000 Palestinians were killed, with each funeral generating ever more radicalised young men.

Since then, Hamas has continued to fire rockets across the border.

Its armed wing is believed to number around 30,000 fighters, most of them fanatical in their determination to defend Palestinian land. They know their tunnels, cellars, bunkers and backstreets better than the invaders.

Such a densely populated piece of territory is no place for tanks, which would be highly vulnerable to ambush.

From a purely military standpoint, a ground assault could result in short-term success, eliminating most of Hamas’s commanders.

But in the absence of a lasting peace deal, Hamas would likely regenerate itself, calling up a new generation of angry, radicalised young fighters.
 
PommyMommy said:
Israel Gaza live news: Netanyahu says action only just begun as Hamas threatens to kill hostages - BBC News
Posted at 20:1020:10

Rescuing hostages is the challenge - Israel's former intelligence deputy​

The BBC has been hearing from Doron Kempel, former deputy chief of the Sayeret Matkal - Israel's elite commando unit.

"The challenge is how to know enough about where the hostages are and how to time the assault such that you can at one time break into wherever they’re being held and save as many of them as possible," he tells BBC's Newsday programme.

He adds that what confuses the situation is the hostages are not within areas of Israeli control.

Posted at 20:4820:48

Ground invasion of Gaza is no silver bullet​

There is an assumption in some quarters that the threat to Israel from Hamas can somehow be eliminated once and for all with a full-scale invasion on the ground.

History would suggest this is unlikely to be the silver bullet some are hoping for.

When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014, more than 2,000 Palestinians were killed, with each funeral generating ever more radicalised young men.

Since then, Hamas has continued to fire rockets across the border.

Its armed wing is believed to number around 30,000 fighters, most of them fanatical in their determination to defend Palestinian land. They know their tunnels, cellars, bunkers and backstreets better than the invaders.

Such a densely populated piece of territory is no place for tanks, which would be highly vulnerable to ambush.

From a purely military standpoint, a ground assault could result in short-term success, eliminating most of Hamas’s commanders.

But in the absence of a lasting peace deal, Hamas would likely regenerate itself, calling up a new generation of angry, radicalised young fighters.
Click to expand...
These terrorists are indoctrinated from a very young age (especially in school) so I definitely agree with this; there’s plenty more terrorists waiting in the wings. I don’t think there’s any way to rescue these hostages without the vast majority of them being killed.

There would have to be an exchange of hostages for prisoners being held in Israel, and it’s not like Hamas is going to give up their human shields before this is concluded.

What a mess.
 
Militants threw grenades into bomb shelters and shot into passing cars near festival site, new videos show (cnn.com)
20 min ago

Up to 150 hostages in Gaza as Israel aims to "obliterate Hamas terrorist capabilities," UN envoy says​

Israeli authorities believe up to 150 hostages are being held in Gaza as it lays siege to the enclave in an effort to "obliterate Hamas terrorist capabilities," Israel's ambassador to the United Nations said late Monday.

Speaking to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, Israeli Ambassador Gilad Erdan said while authorities hoped those held captive would return home safely, their situation would not "prevent us from doing what we need to do in order to secure the future of Israel."

"We have an unprecedented number of hostages," Erdan said, estimating the number was between 100 and 150.

"We expect the Red Cross, we expect all international organizations to focus on these hostages and how they are treated and that they receive treatment according to international law, but it's not going to stop us, prevent us from doing what we need to do in order to secure the future of Israel."

Hamas has said civilian hostages would be executed and the killings broadcast if Israel targets people in Gaza without warning. The group claims to be holding more than 100 hostages, including Israeli army officers.

Erdan, the Israeli ambassador, told CNN Monday "we cannot restore security for the citizens of Israel if Hamas continues with its military buildup."

"Of course, we want to see all of our boys, girls, grandmothers, everyone who was abducted we want to see them back home, but right now, our focus is looking at our national strategy is to obliterate Hamas terrorist capabilities," he said.
 

Ground invasion of Gaza is no silver bullet​


Frank Gardner
Security Correspondent

There is an assumption in some quarters that the threat to Israel from Hamas can somehow be eliminated once and for all with a full-scale invasion on the ground.

History would suggest this is unlikely to be the silver bullet some are hoping for.

When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014, more than 2,000 Palestinians were killed, with each funeral generating ever more radicalised young men.

Since then, Hamas has continued to fire rockets across the border.

Its armed wing is believed to number around 30,000 fighters, most of them fanatical in their determination to defend Palestinian land. They know their tunnels, cellars, bunkers and backstreets better than the invaders.

Such a densely populated piece of territory is no place for tanks, which would be highly vulnerable to ambush.

From a purely military standpoint, a ground assault could result in short-term success, eliminating most of Hamas’s commanders.

But in the absence of a lasting peace deal, Hamas would likely regenerate itself, calling up a new generation of angry, radicalised young fighters.

 
MassGuy said:
Does that make Hamas somehow good?
Click to expand...

I think there is a miscommunication. I think the first poster was talking about Islamic terrorists and the second poster was saying the same Islamic terrorists hated the US, too . Then the 3rd poster chimed in saying Jews have never attacked the US. At least that's the way I interpreted the exchange. Maybe a bit of clarification needed?
 
JennieM said:

Ground invasion of Gaza is no silver bullet​


Frank Gardner
Security Correspondent

There is an assumption in some quarters that the threat to Israel from Hamas can somehow be eliminated once and for all with a full-scale invasion on the ground.

History would suggest this is unlikely to be the silver bullet some are hoping for.

When Israel invaded Gaza in 2014, more than 2,000 Palestinians were killed, with each funeral generating ever more radicalised young men.

Since then, Hamas has continued to fire rockets across the border.

Its armed wing is believed to number around 30,000 fighters, most of them fanatical in their determination to defend Palestinian land. They know their tunnels, cellars, bunkers and backstreets better than the invaders.

Such a densely populated piece of territory is no place for tanks, which would be highly vulnerable to ambush.

From a purely military standpoint, a ground assault could result in short-term success, eliminating most of Hamas’s commanders.

But in the absence of a lasting peace deal, Hamas would likely regenerate itself, calling up a new generation of angry, radicalised young fighters.

Click to expand...

Most of the residents of Gaza are under the age of 30, close to 60 percent. Many, from the day they were born have been in some form of prison. That's got to foment hatred toward your captors no matter which way you look at it.
 
Israel-Hamas war live: Netanyahu says Israel’s siege ‘just getting started’; Hamas threatens hostage executions (theguardian.com)
17m ago00.03 EDT

Summary​

It is nearing 7am in Gaza and Tel Aviv, here is where things stand:
  • Israel increased airstrikes on the Gaza Strip and sealed it off from food, fuel, and other supplies in retaliation for a bloody incursion by Hamas militants, as the war’s death toll rose to nearly 1,600 on both sides.
  • US top general says Iran ‘not to get involved’. General Charles Q Brown, Junior, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, has told reporters that his message to Iran is “not to get involved”, Reuters reports. Brown was appointed in September as the US’s highest-ranking military officer.
  • Palestine’s health ministry has released a statement claiming Israeli defence forces “targeted” ambulances in southern Gaza. Four ambulances have been “put out of service” the ministry claims:
  • Hamas also escalated on Monday, pledging to kill captured Israelis if attacks targeted civilians without warnings. In the war’s third day, Israel was still finding bodies from Hamas’ stunning weekend attack into southern Israeli towns. Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to destroy the militants’ “military and governing capabilities.”
  • The Palestinian death toll has risen to more than 680 killed in Israeli counterattack strikes, the Gaza health ministry reported.
  • The Israeli death toll stands at more than 900, according to authorities.
  • WHO cites 11 attacks on health care facilities in Gaza. The World Health Organisation said that a 16-year-blockade of Gaza had already left its medical system under-resourced, and the increased hostilities are “compounding an already dire situation.” The UN health agency reported Monday a total of 11 attacks on health care — which included medical facilities, ambulances and care providers — in the first 36 hours of the new conflict in Gaza.
  • In Gaza, tens of thousands fled their homes as relentless airstrikes leveled buildings. Israeli tanks and drones were deployed to guard breaches in the Gaza border fence to prevent new incursions. Thousands of Israelis were evacuated from more than a dozen towns near Gaza, and the military summoned 300,000 reservists – a massive mobilisation in a short time.
  • The Israeli military said it had largely gained control in the south. Hamas and other militants in Gaza say they are holding more than 130 soldiers and civilians snatched from inside Israel.
  • US President Joe Biden issued a statement announcing that at least 11 American citizens have been killed in the Hamas attacks on southern Israel and the White House believes “it is likely” that American citizens are among those being held by Hamas in Gaza.
  • Biden also released a joint statement with the leaders of Germany, Britain, France and Italy on Monday condemning the attacks on Israel by Hamas and expressed their “steadfast and united support” for Israel. The statement said, “Over the coming days, we will remain united and coordinated, together as allies, and as common friends of Israel, to ensure Israel is able to defend itself, and to ultimately set the conditions for a peaceful and integrated Middle East region”.
 

Hamas attack has abruptly altered the picture for Middle East diplomacy​

Patrick Wintour

Iran wants to make it impossible for Saudi Arabia to strike deal with Israel, while others in region cannot afford mayhem in Gaza

[…]

Iran’s goal is to denormalise the region, and make it near-impossible for Saudi Arabia to strike a deal. Israel, by contrast, wants to shrink the Palestinian conflict diplomatically so it gradually becomes an irrelevance, a historical curio such as the Yom Kippur war. The aid it drip-feeds to Gaza via Qatar is one leg of this strategy.

[…]

Now with the start of what could become a regional war, the risk calculations have changed. Hamas has shown its firepower and extended its base beyond Gaza. Far from the conflict shrinking it has been broadened.

[…]

www.theguardian.com

Hamas attack has abruptly altered the picture for Middle East diplomacy

Iran wants to make it impossible for Saudi Arabia to strike deal with Israel, while others in region cannot afford mayhem in Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
bestill said:
I don't understand the hate for Jews, they are devout people, hard workers, peace seekers, frugal, family oriented...what am I missing?
Click to expand...

I think it is felt by any group/ethnicity who has been exiled and had to live by the merit of education, or art (music), or sales. Human nature is such that every time there is an exchange, the customer believes he has been cheated. In principle, it has little to do with the ethnicity, more with the nature of the trade. When we once discussed it, my Greek friends said that their grandparents experienced exactly the same feeling; one can say the same about Armenians, for example. However, historically, very few groups were in the situation of being unable to own land for centuries. The gypsies were in the same position, perhaps someone will remember other groups. The tragedy of these two groups during WWII, the jews and the gypsies, came exactly from the fact that they were apatrides. "You don't belong here, move away if anyone agrees to accept you, but on our land, we shall destroy you". This tragedy probably explains the abandon with which the Jews now protect their tiny sliver of land, Israel.

As humans, the Bell curve works the same in any community, but the historical experience is different.
 
IDF spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari says the military has regained control of the porous Gaza border. "In the last day, not a single terrorist entered via the fence," he says.

Combat Engineering troops are working to mine the areas near the breaches in the fence.

IDF estimates a small number of terrorists still hiding in Israeli territory.

 
JennieM said:

US warships are a show of force​


Barbara Plett Usher
US State Department correspondent, BBC News

The US has started sending munitions and military equipment to Israel and is moving navy warships and combat aircraft into the region in a show of support.

The fleet was already in the Mediterranean Sea, so it didn't have far to go. And it is not unusual for the US to deploy naval vessels in the region when there are flare-ups.
It hasn't done so during previous battles between Hamas and Israel, which have been self-contained. But this isn't about Hamas. The Pentagon is worried the conflict may spread.

A senior defence official said the warships and planes are meant to demonstrate a concrete commitment to Israel's defence, and to deter any country or militant group from joining the fight.

Chiefly that means Iran, which backs Lebanon's powerful Hizbollah movement, as well as Hamas.

The US will be part of Israel's lengthy and punishing response, although National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said there was no intention to put US boots on the ground.

Click to expand...

In such situations, I am always afraid of the domino effect. So many tensions in the world, so many conflicting interests. I hope it will be local.
 

What Israel’s ground operation in Gaza could look like​


Israel’s armed forces appear to be preparing for a Gaza siege after the Hamas attack. Retired Lt. Col. Daniel Davis details what a ground operation could look like.

How Israel is responding to Hamas attacks with ‘siege’ on Gaza​


CNN’s Alex Marquardt breaks down Israel’s military response to the Hamas attacks.
 
38min ago

IDF to inform over 100 families loved ones are hostages​

The Israel Defense Force is sending out officers today to inform over 100 Israeli families that their relatives are being held in Gaza by Hamas, according to Army Radio.

UN Ambassador Gilad Erdan tells CNN that Israel estimates “that the number is between 100-150 people.”

20min ago

IDF: We have full control of Gaza border​

The Israel Defense Forces’ top spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, says the military has regained control of the porous Gaza border, after Hamas terrorists blew up sections of the border fence during its attack on Saturday morning.

“In the last day, not a single terrorist entered via the fence,” he says in a call with reporters.

Combat Engineering troops are working to mine the areas near the holes in the fence, Hagari says.

The IDF estimates that there are a small number of terrorists still hiding in Israeli territory.
 
branmuffin said:
Most of the residents of Gaza are under the age of 30, close to 60 percent. Many, from the day they were born have been in some form of prison. That's got to foment hatred toward your captors no matter which way you look at it.
Click to expand...

(I think that the creation of a Jewish state was a must, but wonder whether the location - British Mandate Palestine - was such a good choice. And it has less to do with the Jews and more with the fact that the natural history of the Middle East, where desert tribes were slowly getting united, suddenly got steroidized by the world's need in hydrocarbons. But we don't have "alternative history" to compare).

But the comparison with a prison is not right either. Israel has done a lot to educate Arabs. Here: Accessibility of higher education in the Arab Sector.
 
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