Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[lilykaluva]

Yes, for sure. This is total guesswork but I would imagine that, given the father's medical knowledge, it would have been clear to him that the son had been involved in *something*. But maybe details weren't needed. Totally possible the POI broke down and confessed everything, of course. I can just also imagine a scenario where the father didn't need to know the whole picture to understand that once the boy was patched up, he would need to be on a plane out of there.

I think he's a believer, yes. Or at least attends church with his family. How devout he actually is, I have no idea. Bundy was in the Samaritans etc. I would imagine, though, given how involved his parents were, that it still and will always play a part in his life. As for what kind, I can link him to a few churches with oblique names that seem to be very pastor-focused, their dominations not immediately obvious. I cant' really say much more sadly!

Oh definitely regarding not saying too much! But that's about what I expected, esp the pastor focused aspect actually. Shame when religion is used as a means of escaping responsibility instead of taking responsibility (said as a religious person who has experienced more or less the full range of "good" and "evil" in churches).

 

[Sor Juana]

Regarding the killer's use of the computer, my understanding (from the podcast) is that there is no evidence to suggest that he attempted to book tickets for a show using Mikio's cards. Instead, he simply created a folder and left it at that. Questions arise: How did he name the folder? Where was the folder created - in the root directory or elsewhere? In what language was it named? It appears that he did not linger at the computer for very long. Was he searching for something specific, or perhaps he intended to spend some time playing computer games but found none available? Alternatively, could he have been looking to download something, such as a game?

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not sure which show it was on, maybe James May's "Our Man In Japan." But there was a smartly-dressed Japanese woman, seemingly a businesswoman, riding on public transport wearing a nice white shirt... with English swear words all over it. Either she didn't know or didn't care.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the killer drove a car, I wonder how easy it would have been to drive with a severe hand injury.

When in Disneyworld, in a Japanese store, I bought a beautiful piece, featuring a golden hieroglyph on black velvet. I hung it on the wall, explaining to my husband, “It means “Love””. The husband, remembering that neither me nor the vendor girl appeared to know any Japanese, advised to check, just in case. It turned out something neutral, neither a profanity nor love. I think if we don’t know the language and most people around us don’t, we tend to rely on aesthetics.

 

[Charlot123]

RSBM: reading back that Japan Times January 1st article. Interestingly, it says the door was locked and the windows were not broken. Now, I'd never seen direct confirmation of the door being locked because I was told Haruko couldn't remember if she found the door unlocked, locked, or even ajar. That said, it also says most of the stab wounds focused on the necks of the victims, which is untrue, so it could simply be misreporting in the chaos of that breaking story.

Haruko was horribly shocked. Another possibility, highly unlikely: initially, all inhabitants of the other side of the house were under suspicion, it was scary for Haruko, so she said she didn’t remember. Later, when the culprit turned out to be a stranger, she could not change her statement.

I strongly suspect, however, that the true reason for not remembering is how our brain works. When opening the door, Haruko was preoccupied with her concerns about no one answering the phone, and acted automatically, without registration. Later, the shock erased any memory of it at all.

 

[Incoherent]

Haruko was horribly shocked. Another possibility, highly unlikely: initially, all inhabitants of the other side of the house were under suspicion, it was scary for Haruko, so she said she didn’t remember. Later, when the culprit turned out to be a stranger, she could not change her statement.

I strongly suspect, however, that the true reason for not remembering is how our brain works. When opening the door, Haruko was preoccupied with her concerns about no one answering the phone, and acted automatically, without registration. Later, the shock erased any memory of it at all.

I believe there was about a 50 minute gap (give or take) between Haruko entering the house, as per the computer waking up, and the police being called.
I don’t doubt at all that she was in total and utter shock and panic after what she saw, and her memory has blanked out a lot of details of what she did during that time.

 

[Incoherent]

When in Disneyworld, in a Japanese store, I bought a beautiful piece, featuring a golden hieroglyph on black velvet. I hung it on the wall, explaining to my husband, “It means “Love””. The husband, remembering that neither me nor the vendor girl appeared to know any Japanese, advised to check, just in case. It turned out something neutral, neither a profanity nor love. I think if we don’t know the language and most people around us don’t, we tend to rely on aesthetics.

Indeed, this is why people end up with “fried chicken” tattooed on their arm in Japanese instead of what they thought it was!

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Regarding the killer's use of the computer, my understanding (from the podcast) is that there is no evidence to suggest that he attempted to book tickets for a show using Mikio's cards. Instead, he simply created a folder and left it at that.

Exactly that. It's possible, I imagine, that he did more than this. But from sources, that is the *only* thing we know for sure he did. I'm not sure where the thing about the tickets came from--other than Mikio was very much into theatre and it seems very likely his local group was bookmarked in his tabs. Moreover, we know he had been involved in theatre stage SFX and design, so on. He was also an illustrator / artist (the thrust of his work at Interbrand, as I understand), and worked on the Inspector Gadget anime. So, all that to say, it wouldn't shock me if he had a theatre group on his favourites and the killer clicked on it. But how intentional that was, whether or not he actually had a common interest, or perhaps he simply clicked on the first tab he saw to play around with Mikio's credit card details on some such, we simply don't know. At any rate, this is all speculation. As you say, only the creation of a new folder is confirmed (on the desktop, I believe).

Questions arise: How did he name the folder? Where was the folder created - in the root directory or elsewhere? In what language was it named?

I'm not sure he called it anything. Or even if he intended to do that. Even accounting for boot-up time (assuming the computer was off, I think it was ON given Mikio's actions just prior to the murders), five minutes seems like a long time to just create one folder and do nothing else.

It appears that he did not linger at the computer for very long. Was he searching for something specific, or perhaps he intended to spend some time playing computer games but found none available? Alternatively, could he have been looking to download something, such as a game?

All possible, we simply don't know. An interest in gaming wouldn't shock me at all. And yes, he was on for exactly five minutes. (He also did NOT pull out the plug as some have suggested on Reddit etc). If I had to guess, the killer is at least proficient in Japanese given he seems to be going through the family's documents, using a Japanese keyboard, so on.

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

I believe there was about a 50 minute gap (give or take) between Haruko entering the house, as per the computer waking up, and the police being called.
I don’t doubt at all that she was in total and utter shock and panic after what she saw, and her memory has blanked out a lot of details of what she did during that time.

I can’t recall if there is any reporting of what she recalls doing during this time? 50min is a LONG time. Did she hide? Did she faint? Is there any suggestion things were removed/hidden during this time (possibly to preserve privacy/honour of the victims if there were things they would maybe not want made public?)

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Haruko was horribly shocked. Another possibility, highly unlikely: initially, all inhabitants of the other side of the house were under suspicion, it was scary for Haruko, so she said she didn’t remember. Later, when the culprit turned out to be a stranger, she could not change her statement.

I can tell you that An and her family were questioned extensively, as one would expect. Maybe An or her husband might be able to keep a story straight (to be clear, not to do with any hypothetical guilt, but as is often the case, a story in order to not seem suspicious, even if completely innocent). However, I think An's son or certain Haruko would've struggled to not diverge or buckle under pressure from the Chief et al. I think if they had any immediate secrets, he would have found them pretty quickly. That said, I can also tell you that LE found parts of their account that night hard to understand, primarily around the sound. But in the end, that means nothing. I guess if you hear hooves outside your window, you have to assume horses until you know its zebras.

I strongly suspect, however, that the true reason for not remembering is how our brain works. When opening the door, Haruko was preoccupied with her concerns about no one answering the phone, and acted automatically, without registration. Later, the shock erased any memory of it at all.

I think it's also possible she fainted upon discovering the bodies. Perhaps even suffered some kind of bad turn. It's completely understandable. Again, however, I think questions would have been asked on Day 1. Why did it take almost an hour to call us? Why, if Haruko went over there around 10am, did it take so long to go check on her when she hadn't returned three quarters of an hour later? Etc.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I can’t recall if there is any reporting of what she recalls doing during this time? 50min is a LONG time. Did she hide? Did she faint? Is there any suggestion things were removed/hidden during this time (possibly to preserve privacy/honour of the victims if there were things they would maybe not want made public?)

RE: the 50 mins, my last post covers that. The sum total of what was missing from the Miyazawa home:

*Some money but only around a third of it, despite most of it being by the computer which the killer used.
*Mikio's sweatshirt.
*Initially, it was thought the new years greeting cards (later realised to be a mistake and taken by a detective).

Now, we know that Mikio kept incredibly meticulous books, financial records. I'm guessing between his bank information, insurance, photographs / home video, family testimony etc the TMPD would have been able to build a comprehensive picture of their lives. This would've helped understand what was missing from the home. As far as I know, there has never been any suggestion that anything else whatsoever was taken. Given that the killer was nosing through the family documents / Yasuko's handbag, that seems significant to me. Many have suggested he was looking for something specific which, in turn, points towards a motive. Nobody can say what. Beyond rummaging, I find little that helps to substantiate this. Or at least, it's just as likely he was simply curious. Or possibly, given his blood-loss, half delirious. It's possible he wasn't fully in control of his actions by that stage or 'blood drunk.' Having lost blood in the past from a laceration, that wooziness really can feel like seeing yourself on camera as oppose to your normal POV. It reminds me of how a climber can scale Everest, marvel at the beauty, take 100 photographs before fleeing away from the death zone. When he or she reaches base camp, they realise they only took a single photo of their foot.

 

[Incoherent]

I can tell you that An and her family were questioned extensively, as one would expect. Maybe An or her husband might be able to keep a story straight (to be clear, not to do with any hypothetical guilt, but as is often the case, a story in order to not seem suspicious, even if completely innocent). However, I think An's son or certain Haruko would've struggled to not diverge or buckle under pressure from the Chief et al. I think if they had any immediate secrets, he would have found them pretty quickly. That said, I can also tell you that LE found parts of their account that night hard to understand, primarily around the sound. But in the end, that means nothing. I guess if you hear hooves outside your window, you have to assume horses until you know its zebras.

Apologies for being lazy and not back-tracking, but didn’t An and her son live in the UK from 1992-2000? I seem to remember it was An’s relocation that allowed Yasuko the space to operate her cram school from the other side of the house. An’s return was around 6 months or so before the murder happened I think. This was from reading Japanese blogs about it, I don’t have an official source for those dates.

Just in relation to your POI being American and obviously speaking English, couldn’t we also assume An’s son would also speak relatively decent English due to his 8 years in the UK? And wouldn’t he also be around the same age as the suspected earlier age of the killer? Around mid-teens?

I’m positive this has already been probed, but two teenage boys around the same age-ish and both being able to communicate in English… I do wonder if there is any potential connection there. Even in passing.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Apologies for being lazy and not back-tracking, but didn’t An and her son live in the UK from 1992-2000? I seem to remember it was An’s relocation that allowed Yasuko the space to operate her cram school from the other side of the house. An’s return was around 6 months or so before the murder happened I think. This was from reading Japanese blogs about it, I don’t have an official source for those dates.

I've seen differing dates about her time in the UK / I think she actually talks about this in one of her interviews? At any rate, I'm not sure if she was there full-time or during certain periods. The husband worked for Formula 1, I think, and he was there for quite a substantial time. I think there's a very solid chance they were there with him and the son, therefore, would have some English. Incidentally, he's a journalist today, so I can't imagine having that hurts.

Just in relation to your POI being American and obviously speaking English, couldn’t we also assume An’s son would also speak relatively decent English due to his 8 years in the UK? And wouldn’t he also be around the same age as the suspected earlier age of the killer? Around mid-teens?

I think it's a fair bet, absolutely. I wouldn't be able to guess if the POIs Japanese was better than the son's English. But in such a scenario, they would likely have enough to understand each other with.

I’m positive this has already been probed, but two teenage boys around the same age-ish and both being able to communicate in English… I do wonder if there is any potential connection there. Even in passing.

I've wondered about this before. It's certainly a possible avenue, except that I can't imagine the TMPD didn't look at the son at all. Still, just because they looked doesn't mean they saw. In terms of my POI in this scenario, the difficulty is that on the night of the murders, he was very close to being 18, whereas the son is 13.

 

[Sor Juana]

Indeed, this is why people end up with “fried chicken” tattooed on their arm in Japanese instead of what they thought it was!

Or sometimes one could get 'I'm available' tattooed on their shoulder. It actually happened to someone, and as a consequence, that person was flooded with interesting offers until they finally tattooed something over it to change the message.

 

[Charlot123]

Exactly that. It's possible, I imagine, that he did more than this. But from sources, that is the *only* thing we know for sure he did. I'm not sure where the thing about the tickets came from--other than Mikio was very much into theatre and it seems very likely his local group was bookmarked in his tabs. Moreover, we know he had been involved in theatre stage SFX and design, so on. He was also an illustrator / artist (the thrust of his work at Interbrand, as I understand), and worked on the Inspector Gadget anime. So, all that to say, it wouldn't shock me if he had a theatre group on his favourites and the killer clicked on it. But how intentional that was, whether or not he actually had a common interest, or perhaps he simply clicked on the first tab he saw to play around with Mikio's credit card details on some such, we simply don't know. At any rate, this is all speculation. As you say, only the creation of a new folder is confirmed (on the desktop, I believe).

I'm not sure he called it anything. Or even if he intended to do that. Even accounting for boot-up time (assuming the computer was off, I think it was ON given Mikio's actions just prior to the murders), five minutes seems like a long time to just create one folder and do nothing else.

All possible, we simply don't know. An interest in gaming wouldn't shock me at all. And yes, he was on for exactly five minutes. (He also did NOT pull out the plug as some have suggested on Reddit etc). If I had to guess, the killer is at least proficient in Japanese given he seems to be going through the family's documents, using a Japanese keyboard, so on.

He could have been proficient, but from own experience, the computer language is English. Most of us buy English computers and are used to English terms. Moreover, when it comes to IT, even bilingual people think in English. Once in my life, in someone's house, i used a computer made for the Russian market (not "Russified, i.e., having a double keyboard, but the screen and everything was originally in Russian), it took me some time to understand what the heck this or that command meant. The situation is even worse if you use PC at home and the person has Mac, or vice versa.

So, in 2000es, there were mostly either Macs or PCs around. Mac has good graphics, i assume that Mikio would favor it. IMHO: the perp and Mikio had different types of computers at home and 2) Mikio had the version made for the Japanese market, and the perp, for English (or some other language-speaking) one. This is exactly the situation when the perpetrator would not quite understand the meaning of the Japanese terms. He probably created a new folder accidentally.

I don't understand how to explain it better, but even when I think of an IT "cloud" in English and in Russian, I see different images in the head, and the Russian cloud resembles a "sky cloud" more than the English one, while the English image is more abstract. So while the killer was proficient in Japanese, he probably used a different computer at home. And strangely, so far, to me, this provides the biggest proof that Japanese was not his first language. Much bigger than the sand. Of course, it doesn't indicate that his first language was English, either. Could have been Korean or any other.

 

[Incoherent]

I've seen differing dates about her time in the UK / I think she actually talks about this in one of her interviews? At any rate, I'm not sure if she was there full-time or during certain periods. The husband worked for Formula 1, I think, and he was there for quite a substantial time. I think there's a very solid chance they were there with him and the son, therefore, would have some English. Incidentally, he's a journalist today, so I can't imagine having that hurts.

I think it's a fair bet, absolutely. I wouldn't be able to guess if the POIs Japanese was better than the son's English. But in such a scenario, they would likely have enough to understand each other with.

I've wondered about this before. It's certainly a possible avenue, except that I can't imagine the TMPD didn't look at the son at all. Still, just because they looked doesn't mean they saw. In terms of my POI in this scenario, the difficulty is that on the night of the murders, he was very close to being 18, whereas the son is 13.

Yeah I’m sure the son was grilled considering no one that side apparently heard any screams at all even with the bathroom window wide open… and 3 out of 4 being stabbed to death right by it.

I thought perhaps the son and the killer could’ve run in the same language circles maybe, the son learning more English and the killer learning Japanese - language exchange groups are very popular here. And maybe the son knew him and the Miyazawa’s could have been picked out that way. But those are just my ponderings!

 

[Charlot123]

RE: the 50 mins, my last post covers that. The sum total of what was missing from the Miyazawa home:

*Some money but only around a third of it, despite most of it being by the computer which the killer used.
*Mikio's sweatshirt.
*Initially, it was thought the new years greeting cards (later realised to be a mistake and taken by a detective).

Now, we know that Mikio kept incredibly meticulous books, financial records. I'm guessing between his bank information, insurance, photographs / home video, family testimony etc the TMPD would have been able to build a comprehensive picture of their lives. This would've helped understand what was missing from the home. As far as I know, there has never been any suggestion that anything else whatsoever was taken. Given that the killer was nosing through the family documents / Yasuko's handbag, that seems significant to me. Many have suggested he was looking for something specific which, in turn, points towards a motive. Nobody can say what. Beyond rummaging, I find little that helps to substantiate this. Or at least, it's just as likely he was simply curious. Or possibly, given his blood-loss, half delirious. It's possible he wasn't fully in control of his actions by that stage or 'blood drunk.' Having lost blood in the past from a laceration, that wooziness really can feel like seeing yourself on camera as oppose to your normal POV. It reminds me of how a climber can scale Everest, marvel at the beauty, take 100 photographs before fleeing away from the death zone. When he or she reaches base camp, they realise they only took a single photo of their foot.

How much blood do you think the perp has lost? I assume, less than 0.5 liter?

(Oxygen deprivation due to hypoxia (Everest) is a peculiar thing because it gives people a certain sensation of high that can be anesthetizing. This is how some famous alpine climbers had died - a heart attack, and the person doesn’t realize it because he is in hypoxia-induced euphoria.)

And since we are on that scar issue, @Incoherent gave a good idea when mentioning tattoos. I know some people tattoo over old scars. Do you think that it would be possible for the perpetrator, with his type of a scar, to tattoo over it?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

He could have been proficient, but from own experience, the computer language is English. Most of us buy English computers and are used to English terms. Moreover, when it comes to IT, even bilingual people think in English. Once in my life, in someone's house, i used a computer made for the Russian market (not "Russified, i.e., having a double keyboard, but the screen and everything was originally in Russian), it took me some time to understand what the heck this or that command meant. The situation is even worse if you use PC at home and the person has Mac, or vice versa.

I'm going to assume the keyboard had both 'alphabets' on them, the way I've typically seen in Japan. But yes, I meant the desktop itself was likely in Japanese. I have no idea, I'm just guessing.

So, in 2000es, there were mostly either Macs or PCs around. Mac has good graphics, i assume that Mikio would favor it.

I think it was a Mac, yes. Also, I have no idea as I was young in 2000, but were password-protected e-mails common at the time?

IMHO: the perp and Mikio had different types of computers at home and 2) Mikio had the version made for the Japanese market, and the perp, for English (or some other language-speaking) one. This is exactly the situation when the perpetrator would not quite understand the meaning of the Japanese terms. He probably created a new folder accidentally.

I come coming back to this: if he had no clue how to read Japanese, then why be on the computer for five minutes? (Assuming the desktop was in Japanese, which I'm assuming it was). The only thing that was confirmed was the creation of a new folder, it doesn't mean that's all he actually did. He might've done a fair bit in those 5 minutes. Given how much he goes through their paper documents and so on, my feeling was that he had some proficiency at least. In the case of my POI, his standard of Japanese was pretty good by the night of the murders.

I don't understand how to explain it better, but even when I think of an IT "cloud" in English and in Russian, I see different images in the head, and the Russian cloud resembles a "sky cloud" more than the English one, while the English image is more abstract. So while the killer was proficient in Japanese, he probably used a different computer at home. And strangely, so far, to me, this provides the biggest proof that Japanese was not his first language. Much bigger than the sand. Of course, it doesn't indicate that his first language was English, either. Could have been Korean or any other.

Proof, I don’t know. But I agree, I don't think his first language was Japanese. Not that there is one over-arching clue that points to this but taken as a whole, I believe the picture that's painted is of a foreigner. It follows that he wouldn't be computing in Japanese. However, I disagree on the sand. The sand is the single tangible clue pointing to a specific place. Not only that, it points to a restricted space. The fact he had access to it almost certainly makes him non-Japanese (though there are instances of Japanese pilots / personnel spending time on Edwards USAF Base).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Yeah I’m sure the son was grilled considering no one that side apparently heard any screams at all even with the bathroom window wide open… and 3 out of 4 being stabbed to death right by it.

I thought perhaps the son and the killer could’ve run in the same language circles maybe, the son learning more English and the killer learning Japanese - language exchange groups are very popular here. And maybe the son knew him and the Miyazawa’s could have been picked out that way. But those are just my ponderings!

It is entirely possible. If we put on our imagination hats, in a world where An's son is at least connected to the killer, it would explain pretty much everything subsequent to the murders. Of course, I'm not saying that's the reality, just going with the theoretical. Now, that sound discrepancy is a problem in reality, and it always has been, at least for LE. In and of itself, it doesn't mean much, it's just an unsettling puzzle.

But yeah, my main problems with such a scenario: the killer would have to be right at the bottom of the TMPD's age range to realistically be friends with the son and even then there's a two-year gap. Also, it would astound me if the detectives didn't go through that kind of circle. Though possible they did and simply didn't fingerprint someone who had a good alibi or some such?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

How much blood do you think the perp has lost? I assume, less than 0.5 liter?

I don't know but from the sounds of it, it was a fairly significant amount. I know that I didn't lose a great deal and yet it was hard to distinguish between dreams and reality but the time I reached the hospital. Half a litre is roughly a pint? Well, we have 9 pints of blood in our bodies so losing half, I think, would be a reasonable explanation for poor choices, or even ones that make little sense on the face of it.

(Oxygen deprivation due to hypoxia (Everest) is a peculiar thing because it gives people a certain sensation of high that can be anesthetizing. This is how some famous alpine climbers had died - a heart attack, and the person doesn’t realize it because he is in hypoxia-induced euphoria.)

And since we are on that scar issue, @Incoherent gave a good idea when mentioning tattoos. I know some people tattoo over old scars. Do you think that it would be possible for the perpetrator, with his type of a scar, to tattoo over it?

I've heard of cases where people tattoo over marks or scars to evade detection so it's certainly possible. However, these tattoos would have to be on his hands / fingers, so I'm not sure. At any rate, in Japan, you'd probably be better off just walking around with the scars than tattooing your hands, far more likely for the latter to be noticed.

 

[Incoherent]

I've heard of cases where people tattoo over marks or scars to evade detection so it's certainly possible. However, these tattoos would have to be on his hands / fingers, so I'm not sure. At any rate, in Japan, you'd probably be better off just walking around with the scars than tattooing your hands, fair more likely for the latter to be noticed.

Correct there. A man with a tattoo on his hand is far more noticeable than a man with a scar on his hand in Japan.