Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Hausos]

Something just came across me.

Even if Japan changes its stance on genetic DNA, I fear that if the perp is Japanese born and raised then even genetic testing may not give us any concrete clues.

This is why if the killer is American as many people believe, there’s a higher likelihood of obtaining justice. Genetic testing in the States has become extremely common. Ancestry, 23andme, MyHeritage, etc are all used frequently. There’s a high likelihood that someone in the killer’s family probably used such services. In fact, so many infamous cold cases have been cracked recently due to the development of genetic companies.

Meanwhile, in Japan… *cue tumbleweeds*.

Unfortunately, I fear that the first option is more likely. That the killer is born and bred Japanese, he’s never travelled outside of the country (or he stopped after the murders), and he’s never re-offended. If this is the case, the mystery may never get solved.

Even more chilling, he may still be living a normal life in public sight in Japan or even in Setagaya-ku all this time. Maybe he even has a wife and kids.

 

[Incoherent]

Go to a local police department and start demanding actions, results or answers. See how it goes. Here in Chicago, that used to get you a rap upside da’ head. Might still.

In Japan you’d be arrested for obstruction and thrown into jail. Due to the law of daiyo kangoku you can be held for 23 days and the police has no obligation to notify anyone where you are, and you don’t need to be charged to be held either. You really don’t want to get in the Japanese police’s faces about things because they don’t play around.

While we have Nic commenting I’d personally like to keep it that way because every time he does I am learning something about this case from a trustworthy source.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Something just came across me.

Even if Japan changes its stance on genetic DNA, I fear that if the perp is Japanese born and raised then even genetic testing may not give us any concrete clues.

Yes, for sure. This is something that’s been discussed at length. Japan has no big civilian DNA database (But why would it? What use would 23andMe be for one of the most ethnically homogeneous populations on earth etc). And we already know he’s not on the criminal one. Still, there’s a lot we can learn about him genetically even without such a database.

This is why if the killer is American as many people believe, there’s a higher likelihood of obtaining justice. Genetic testing in the States has become extremely common. Ancestry, 23andme, MyHeritage, etc are all used frequently. There’s a high likelihood that someone in the killer’s family probably used such services. In fact, so many infamous cold cases have been cracked recently due to the development of genetic companies.

Meanwhile, in Japan… *cue tumbleweeds*.

Not strictly true. The local Setagaya Council recently lodged an official opinion (after a vote) with the state that the law should be changed. So that’s very positive, even if major change in Japan can be slow. The Miyazawas have already led to changes in Japanese law once. Let’s see if it happens on DNA…

Unfortunately, I fear that the first option is more likely. That the killer is born and bred Japanese, he’s never travelled outside of the country (or he stopped after the murders), and he’s never re-offended. If this is the case, the mystery may never get solved.

That sad possibility is indeed real. I choose to keep a cautious faith.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

In Japan you’d be arrested for obstruction and thrown into jail. Due to the law of daiyo kangoku you can be held for 23 days and the police has no obligation to notify anyone where you are, and you don’t need to be charged to be held either. You really don’t want to get in the Japanese police’s faces about things because they don’t play around.

A friend of mine fell through a glass door on an apartment complex. The neighbours, once they realised what had happened, were very understanding and even refused to accept his money for the repairs. We figured everything was okay until the TMPD showed up. My friend spent the better part of two weeks in jail without a phone call etc. There are countless examples like this I could point to, and I’m sure anyone who’s spent time in Japan could too. @Incoherent is absolutely correct that the TMPD don’t mess around.

 

[Janitor101]

Something just came across me.

Even if Japan changes its stance on genetic DNA, I fear that if the perp is Japanese born and raised then even genetic testing may not give us any concrete clues.

This is why if the killer is American as many people believe, there’s a higher likelihood of obtaining justice. Genetic testing in the States has become extremely common. Ancestry, 23andme, MyHeritage, etc are all used frequently. There’s a high likelihood that someone in the killer’s family probably used such services. In fact, so many infamous cold cases have been cracked recently due to the development of genetic companies.

Meanwhile, in Japan… *cue tumbleweeds*.

Unfortunately, I fear that the first option is more likely. That the killer is born and bred Japanese, he’s never travelled outside of the country (or he stopped after the murders), and he’s never re-offended. If this is the case, the mystery may never get solved.

Even more chilling, he may still be living a normal life in public sight in Japan or even in Setagaya-ku all this time. Maybe he even has a wife and kid

Of late, I have been leaning more towards the perpetrator being a local man as it just seems the most logical to me.

I just can't buy into the military brat theory for the simple reason it can't be proven that the notorious hip bag did indeed belong to the perpetrator. As has been mentioned multiple times in the group, the bag could have been borrowed, stolen, belonged to a friend, or even bought in a thrift shop. Without a satisfactory answer to this problem, I just can't go down that rabbit hole and I don't think the TMPD even believe this theory has any merit. OTOH, maybe they DID investigate this line of inquiry and just met with a dead end.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Of late, I have been leaning more towards the perpetrator being a local man as it just seems the most logical to me.

I just can't buy into the military brat theory for the simple reason it can't be proven that the notorious hip bag did indeed belong to the perpetrator. As has been mentioned multiple times in the group, the bag could have been borrowed, stolen, belonged to a friend, or even bought in a thrift shop. Without a satisfactory answer to this problem, I just can't go down that rabbit hole

RSBM:

1) I understand the reticence and I respect the opinion. But let’s turn it around: is there anything here showing it did NOT belong to the killer? Only his DNA on the bag. Only his fingerprints. You might speculate that he cleaned all other traces of a previous owner from the bag; how does he do this while still leaving sand grains and dust and ink? Moreover, why would he do that? He’s clearly not shy, when things went south, about hiding his traces. Perhaps this answer doesn’t satisfy you but I find it more likely, given what we know, that the bag is simply his. JMO.

2) I can confirm it for you: the TMPD did investigate the bag extensively, they found no previous owners. I can also confirm for you that they did not look into the military brat theory. This and the sand was the only topic I was dodged on. The only one. Yes, the sand was in the bag. Yes, it seems to be American sand. No other answers were given and it was made clear that a new topic was required.

At any rate, I’ve gone over this bag ownership a thousand times. My answers, in much greater detail, can be found though Thread 1 and 2. That’s all I’ve got to say about it here at this stage.

 

[Janitor101]

Oh, sorry, I hope you didn't think my post was directed at you. I was just throwing a comment out there and you didn't need to defend yourself in any way. As a matter of fact, I like the military angle if it weren't for the ownership issue with the hip bag, I would most likely subscribe to it.

I feel like like all comments and theories are welcome here for whatever reason as long as there is no ridicule or disrespect. I have learned a tremendous amount from the posters in this discussion group, and if I don't agree with a particular comment or theory, I just scroll on by.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Oh, sorry, I hope you didn't think my post was directed at you. I was just throwing a comment out there and you didn't need to defend yourself in any way. As a matter of fact, I like the military angle if it weren't for the ownership issue with the hip bag, I would most likely subscribe to it.

I feel like like all comments and theories are welcome here for whatever reason as long as there is no ridicule or disrespect. I have learned a tremendous amount from the posters in this discussion group, and if I don't agree with a particular comment or theory, I just scroll on by.

No, don’t worry, I took no disrespect whatsoever, @Janitor101. And I understand your problem with the theory, absolutely. At the end of the day, mine is only just that too — a theory.

 

[TokyoSleuth]

Little late with this but just wanted to add something to speculation discussed a couple of pages back about at what point Mikio might have heard a noise and investigated.

It's commonly known that shoes are removed before entering a house in Japan. Occasionally, on my way out the door in the morning I realize I left something at the top of the stairs and try and sneak up wearing my shoes (yes, I'm lazy). A number of times this has woken my wife up (the other side of the house) and she is able to tell from the sound I am wearing shoes. Often get in a bit of trouble then.

My point is that in the structure of a Japanese house, especially at that time, the sound of footsteps in shoes is immediately distinguishable from bare feet. If I was up late at night and heard footsteps in shoes I would immediately think it strange and seek to investigate.

So it may be the case that Mikio heard commotion with Rey, but if not I don't think it would have been long before he went to investigate due to the footsteps. This is another point against the bathroom being an entry point for me. I think the walk from the bathroom to Rey's bedroom would have been audible for Mikio. Also as pointed out before, it is highly likely that the bath would have been full of water, as it is common in Japan to keep a bath filled for 2-3 days before emptying, cleaning, and refilling again. I think it would have been difficult to avoid the tub if he did climb in through the window, so there would have been some noise of the water at the very least.

Any thoughts to add on those points @Incoherent?

Also just a shout out to the TMPD. A lot of negativity gets thrown towards them both from this thread and also non-Japanese people in Japan which I think is unfounded. The police can only operate within the limits of the Japanese constitution, and there are very tight restrictions on information that can be released even to the families of victims, let alone media. @FacelessPodcast has done an exceptional job getting the information he has.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Little late with this but just wanted to add something to speculation discussed a couple of pages back about at what point Mikio might have heard a noise and investigated.

It's commonly known that shoes are removed before entering a house in Japan. Occasionally, on my way out the door in the morning I realize I left something at the top of the stairs and try and sneak up wearing my shoes (yes, I'm lazy). A number of times this has woken my wife up (the other side of the house) and she is able to tell from the sound I am wearing shoes. Often get in a bit of trouble then.

My point is that in the structure of a Japanese house, especially at that time, the sound of footsteps in shoes is immediately distinguishable from bare feet. If I was up late at night and heard footsteps in shoes I would immediately think it strange and seek to investigate.

So it may be the case that Mikio heard commotion with Rey, but if not I don't think it would have been long before he went to investigate due to the footsteps. This is another point against the bathroom being an entry point for me. I think the walk from the bathroom to Rey's bedroom would have been audible for Mikio. Also as pointed out before, it is highly likely that the bath would have been full of water, as it is common in Japan to keep a bath filled for 2-3 days before emptying, cleaning, and refilling again. I think it would have been difficult to avoid the tub if he did climb in through the window, so there would have been some noise of the water at the very least.

Any thoughts to add on those points @Incoherent?

Also just a shout out to the TMPD. A lot of negativity gets thrown towards them both from this thread and also non-Japanese people in Japan which I think is unfounded. The police can only operate within the limits of the Japanese constitution, and there are very tight restrictions on information that can be released even to the families of victims, let alone media. @FacelessPodcast has done an exceptional job getting the information he has.

Great points across the board, @TokyoSleuth.

Re; the TMPD, I would absolutely highlight their exceptional effort and have always defended the work in this investigation or have reminded users the LE-friendly nature of this website if I’ve ever felt the tone risked being too unfairly critical in my own subjective view. Of course, I depart from the MPD in some aspects and there are inherent problems with the laws of the land — JMO. But where doesn’t have those? Cultural differences have to be respected, moreover the laws weren’t written by the detectives working today.

 

[vls12345]

I still have a couple of pages to read to catch up fully but wanted to comment on the discussion of the balcony vs. the bathroom window as entry point.

All along, I had been a proponent of the balcony theory, it just seems like easier entry & puts the killer directly in Rei's room first.

But, I believe it's @Incoherent who posted a video a few pages back that showed a recreation of someone climbing in a bathroom window & the person doing it made it look fairly easy. Someone else posited that perhaps the killer had done B&E previously, perhaps at other/similar homes so had practice entering through an elevated & small window.

If the killer was likely a teen, could it be that the killer routinely snuck out of & later back into his own home after curfew? That's a non uncommon behavior for some teens. If so, that might have given enough practice & agility to make a climb/entry in the Miyazawa bathroom window easy enough + probably the ability to do so quietly (practiced so as not to wake his own parents when sneaking out & in at home).

Just a thought I had. MOO.

 

[Incoherent]

Little late with this but just wanted to add something to speculation discussed a couple of pages back about at what point Mikio might have heard a noise and investigated.

It's commonly known that shoes are removed before entering a house in Japan. Occasionally, on my way out the door in the morning I realize I left something at the top of the stairs and try and sneak up wearing my shoes (yes, I'm lazy). A number of times this has woken my wife up (the other side of the house) and she is able to tell from the sound I am wearing shoes. Often get in a bit of trouble then.

My point is that in the structure of a Japanese house, especially at that time, the sound of footsteps in shoes is immediately distinguishable from bare feet. If I was up late at night and heard footsteps in shoes I would immediately think it strange and seek to investigate.

So it may be the case that Mikio heard commotion with Rey, but if not I don't think it would have been long before he went to investigate due to the footsteps. This is another point against the bathroom being an entry point for me. I think the walk from the bathroom to Rey's bedroom would have been audible for Mikio. Also as pointed out before, it is highly likely that the bath would have been full of water, as it is common in Japan to keep a bath filled for 2-3 days before emptying, cleaning, and refilling again. I think it would have been difficult to avoid the tub if he did climb in through the window, so there would have been some noise of the water at the very least.

Any thoughts to add on those points @Incoherent?

Also just a shout out to the TMPD. A lot of negativity gets thrown towards them both from this thread and also non-Japanese people in Japan which I think is unfounded. The police can only operate within the limits of the Japanese constitution, and there are very tight restrictions on information that can be released even to the families of victims, let alone media. @FacelessPodcast has done an exceptional job getting the information he has.

Really good points.

If I have ever had to run back into my home with shoes on because I forgot something and I’m in a rush, I always feel like the fists of the Japanese gods are going to come down and punch me for not taking my shoes off. So someone walking around in shoes upstairs in the house would definitely be immediate alarm bells if they were heard. Especially those clunky tennis shoes.

Just on this as it’s something I’ve thought about too, do you think it’s possible Mikio was wearing headphones of any kind? There wasn’t any report of headphones or a portable CD player found down there, but I wondered if perhaps that could have delayed Mikio’s reaction to the commotion upstairs.

Or, as you said, it points to a much stealthier and quieter port of entry - namely the balcony.

 

[Charlot123]

.

If he had visited the house, he would know them in some capacity and we go back to one of the central problems; if he knows them, they know him. And if they know him, why can't the TMPD find him? Possible that he picked up a young sibling from Yasuko's Kumon school, for example. But again, we know how hard the TMPD looked into her business. It's not complicated for them to start going through her client list and seeing that, from Client 1, the teenage brother has a bandage on his hand.

The Irie balcony to the Miyazawa one would basically involve a simple jump, not hugely challenging. However, it's higher than the latter one so makes no sense to use if the target is the Miyazawa home. I can't say it with any certainty but I would be comfortable rejecting the premise that the killer used the Irie balcony as a means to get into the Miyazawa house, let alone entering the home of the former, in order to access the latter. I also must stress how obvious it is that they are two separate homes when you're standing outside. Of course, you don't know that they haven't knocked a boundary wall down inside to make one big house. But there are two front doors, two separate mailboxes, two separate names outside the front doors etc.
View attachment 521176

I don't think anybody anywhere would assume they're about to being the imminent victim of a home invasion murder. My point is that, from the noises in that reconstruction video, given that Mikio was the only one awake (or at least not in bed) and that he was working at the time, given that we know it sounds likely he was prone to reacting to loud noises, I find the killer through the bathroom window harder to accept than via the balcony. If Rei is having a nightmare, how is he rattling the metal fence outside the house etc?

And just to add a couple more images:

View attachment 521179
This one shows you the house opposite still standing, as well as how cars would have moved down their little street. And this one, though not from the year 2000, shows you how well-lit the area is behind the house at night:

View attachment 521180

BTW, the last photo looks unbelievably scary. One can imagine the person watching the house from the back… Don’t we all feel angry with the murderer?

Some people, like Mikio, are sensitive to noise. Conditions like Misophonia - Wikipedia
have certain genes linked to them. Definitely, Mikio had good hearing. But the sounds that trigger the response are selective and very person-specific. One can’t tell whether all skateboarders made Mikio mad, or loud voices of certain timbre/height. Or, it could be the sounds of wheels against the asphalt. However, chances are higher that Mikio was selectively sound-sensitive, not all sounds-sensitive.

From personal experience with the oddest type of a failed home invasion in the old country, eons ago. Imagine a psycho walking, at night, along a narrow 4th-floor ledge of an apartment house and attempting to break into apartments through open windows. What I can tell is that behavioral cliches ingrained in us are shocking. (For example, my hubby’s heartfelt “dude, how can we help you?” on seeing a nutso behind our window makes little sense given what the dude was up to. Husband later explained it by surprise and, ironically, embarrassment at not being fully dressed.) His politeness played well as behind the window, on a ledge, the guy was trapped, so he merely walked back. In Mikio’s situation, it was his family that ended up trapped inside a tiny house. Pushing the intruder down from the balcony or better, window, might have saved the Miyazawas. Probably the invasion was stealthy; this is why I keep questioning the access point and why it was so quiet. On the topic of how one’s brain interprets unusual sounds. I heard the sound of the footsteps at the zinc ledge, but since the possibility of anyone walking where cats are afraid to amble over was next to zero, I normalized my perception by “oh, probably first raindrops.” So I think that maybe, just maybe, Mikio was hearing some footsteps but thought, “drops of water from the faucet”, or something equally normal.

The only other way to explain why he did not react would be hyperfocused or even more likely, by the sad fact that while soundproofing the house, Mikio also took care of the floors in own house, and they didn’t creak at all.

 

[Incoherent]

I still have a couple of pages to read to catch up fully but wanted to comment on the discussion of the balcony vs. the bathroom window as entry point.

All along, I had been a proponent of the balcony theory, it just seems like easier entry & puts the killer directly in Rei's room first.

But, I believe it's @Incoherent who posted a video a few pages back that showed a recreation of someone climbing in a bathroom window & the person doing it made it look fairly easy. Someone else posited that perhaps the killer had done B&E previously, perhaps at other/similar homes so had practice entering through an elevated & small window.

If the killer was likely a teen, could it be that the killer routinely snuck out of & later back into his own home after curfew? That's a non uncommon behavior for some teens. If so, that might have given enough practice & agility to make a climb/entry in the Miyazawa bathroom window easy enough + probably the ability to do so quietly (practiced so as not to wake his own parents when sneaking out & in at home).

Just a thought I had. MOO.

Not beyond the realms of possibility. Teenagers sneak out of their homes at night in Japan just as they do in other countries.

There is a very gruesome murder case that happened in Japan in the late 80’s which I won’t get into here, but during the 2 month long ordeal the teenager whose house was involved used the electricity pole outside of his bedroom to sneak in and out of the house constantly to as to not alert his parents.

Also to add, bouldering is a very popular sport amongst teens in Japan too and many schools have their own bouldering walls on-site. In general the levels of fitness and those that are into sports amongst teens here is relatively high too. It’s almost like everyone does at least one sport. JMO.