Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Lalalacasbah]

Having spent the last month reading back to back these threads I'm positive all of your points were already discussed and some of them discounted but I just wanted to touch on this one briefly because I also talked about it just one page ago (and raised fairly similar questions).

The front door hasn't been officially ruled out, but then again it is the most problematic and improbable one, even when compared to the bathroom window.

In short, not only the front door was locked (which is a whole problem in itself), but as you have also correctly pointed out we know with almost certainty Rei was the first one killed.

Also a detail even I that live in Japan forgot and Nic reminded me: we know the Killer had his shoes on for the whole time and being invited in from the front door it would be literally impossible for him not taking off the shoes.
In Japan this is such a big no-no that he would have been thrown out of the house if he didn't (again, Mikio was not only killed second, but he was found in a place incompatible with being killed at the front door).

Even admitting he removed his shoes, killed Rei, killed Mikio, and then put his shoes on, I believe I recall correctly that the traces of the shoes start from the second floor.

Thank you for this info! Yes I tried to read as much as I could but I don't get much time on here in general so couldn't read all the threads wholly unfortunately. Even when I do read the threads I find it hard to remember all the details as there is a lot here to process.

Also, reading other sources I find some things confusing. I don't think we can post Wikipedia links here but the Japanese Wikipedia page that translates to English mentioned (to paraphrase - I believe we can paraphrase on here as I checked TOS) the entry/exit ideas and the front door is mentioned and if so, he may have taken his shoes off then put back on as bloody footprints were only going in one direction - up the stairs. Also footprints walked sideways up the stairs not forward which is taught in military (or seen on TV!)

I have also read it was thought the killer took the NYE cards but it was actually police which was probably clarified here as well in the threads somewhere.

 

[vls12345]

@FacelessPodcast yeah I was thinking you might find it interesting. It does not say their names in the interview just that they’re the principals of Niina’s elementary and Rei’s kindergarten. It’s towards the end of the clip and Niina’s principal is the first one speaking.

This was actually broadcast on December 31st 2000 and some of the footage shows the house and surroundings very clearly on that day. Quite interesting imo:

世田谷一家殺害事件　当時のニュース - ニコニコ動画

世田谷一家殺害事件　当時のニュース [社会・政治・時事] 2000年(平成12年)12月31日(事件発生は30日)。録画していた紅白歌合戦の間のニュースに入ってました。

sp.nicovideo.jp

I notice in this video that there are some kind of white covers on the side view mirrors on the vehicle. Were there fingerprints & LE was protecting them? I really do wonder if using the vehicle to access the balcony was the entry & possibly exit route & there's some evidence that LE has but has never released. Also, has LE ever said if they found that balcony door unlocked when they arrived at the scene?

 

[Incoherent]

I notice in this video that there are some kind of white covers on the side view mirrors on the vehicle. Were there fingerprints & LE was protecting them? I really do wonder if using the vehicle to access the balcony was the entry & possibly exit route & there's some evidence that LE has but has never released. Also, has LE ever said if they found that balcony door unlocked when they arrived at the scene?

Yes you’re right, Nic had hypothesised a while back when the balcony theory was proposed that it could mean this.

In this screen grab the we can see the size of the gap between the fence and the house, which believe is about 1 metre or so. The officer here dusting the window for prints looks like he is balancing between the fence and back of the house, but that fence is also 2 metres in height if the killer climbed it and he then had to fall forward onto the back of the house to balance and climb up. I believe it was in that gap his footprints were found too.

Obviously not impossible as seen in the reconstructions I posted a while back but it is interesting to see.

Nothing has ever been said publicly about the balcony doors being unlocked or not, and it has also not been confirmed he used the bathroom window either. But the bathroom window was found actually ajar.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Small addendum to my piano theory: what if the killer was the piano instructor to Nina or Rei?
It wouldn't change much about the reconstruction I have imagined if not within the things he would say to Mikio "I'm sorry to barge here this late but I forgot something over the piano and I have urgent need of it. Since the New Year's Holidays are approaching I might not have another time to collect them." (Or, if like suggested in the past he really did left the country/planned to, and the Miyazawas knew, the more reason to have the need to ask to collect the things in such an usual moment).

I do feel there was an interaction in some form between the killer and the family or family member somewhere at some point. I think there is a connection if even brief or a quasi relationship through something (lessons, customer, restaurant, the parks/neighborhood, etc.)

Maybe a diss, maybe some perverse crush yet dislike of Yasuko (maybe targeted) or whatever. Maybe the killer felt a small connection to Rei to spare him a gory death. Maybe he saw something in Rei that reminded him of himself in some way. Or if he did have an interaction with the family, he knew of Rei being non-verbal so not so much a threat and killed him differently.

The sheer nerve and desire to treat their house like garbage after is another insult after the crime. I think killer was stewing and felt vindicated after his deed, so much so that's why he didn't care to leave his stuff. He did what he wanted and needed to do it and almost didn't care at that point if caught. I think he was satisfied. Cold blooded, this has to get solved!

 

[Incoherent]

I do feel there was an interaction in some form between the killer and the family or family member somewhere at some point. I think there is a connection if even brief or a quasi relationship through something (lessons, customer, restaurant, the parks/neighborhood, etc.)

Maybe a diss, maybe some perverse crush yet dislike of Yasuko (maybe targeted) or whatever. Maybe the killer felt a small connection to Rei to spare him a gory death. Maybe he saw something in Rei that reminded him of himself in some way. Or if he did have an interaction with the family, he knew of Rei being non-verbal so not so much a threat and killed him differently.

The sheer nerve and desire to treat their house like garbage after is another insult after the crime. I think killer was stewing and felt vindicated after his deed, so much so that's why he didn't care to leave his stuff. He did what he wanted and needed to do it and almost didn't care at that point if caught. I think he was satisfied. Cold blooded, this has to get solved!

My personal opinion on this is that if there was a direct connection the TMPD would have found him, but I believe there was definitely an encounter. To what degree I’m unsure, but at the very least he saw the family somewhere and decided to kill them. I reflect back on the Ogikubo station posts and think it could have been there since the family also passed through. But the killer also wore tennis shoes and there is a tennis court right by the house, for example. A chance encounter somewhere is my bet. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

About the bathroom window, this is an emergency escape route, carefully prepared and thought out. The window is open, the screen is down, the shower curtain is open. If someone opens the front door, the same police, then he will run away through this window. A wonderful place to get away if anything. Through the window in the living room you can see what’s in front of the house, you can also see it from the nursery, and you can also hear it. The police can be seen, the neighbors can be seen and heard. But obviously I didn't have to use it. It turns out that he is very advanced in this regard, and he had to climb into houses before, and more than once. In fact, he got in without a trace, disappeared without a trace - and no one can understand how he did it. He searched well too, bank cards, savings books, looked for passwords (PIN), like a pro. But the murders - in general, like the first time, complete improvisation, a bunch of wrong actions, decisions. Starting from the choice of knife and the way to carry it. He wanted to rob quietly, he improved his skills, but something went wrong. He realized this when he got hurt and was covered in blood. He could have taken off his jacket and left it in the nursery, and then put on a clean one, but for some reason he didn't do it, didn't have time? When he took off his gloves in the kitchen changing the knife, he realized that he had already left a mark so it was impossible to hide the traces, a lot of his blood everywhere, fingerprints. That's why he was so angry at the end. Ice cream and cold tea - he tried to cool down. And he's not afraid of blood, and calmly walks around bodies. So he had encountered this before, maybe he killed animals. If his work is connected with something like that, for example, cutting fish, animals, then the injury is easy to explain - like he cut himself at work, it happens, and those around him will believe in a light one.

I had thought possibly the killer may had been in the house already from earlier waiting for them to get home, I'm sure that was discussed already.

Like you say, maybe he did B&E's prior and was skilled, so could be another reason he felt comfortable hanging out after the murder making himself comfortable on some level. I still don't think this was robbery IMO, because Mikio was awake.

He might've done the female overkills at the end because angry his plan messed up, but I feel there's a bit more rooted rage there... again JMO.

I like your point about encountering blood/gore before and being comfortable. If this person is the son of military, perhaps his family hunts in the US so has been exposed on some level. Or even restaurant work but I think in restaurants that's pretty tame prep and not so gory. MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

My personal opinion on this is that if there was a direct connection the TMPD would have found him, but I believe there was definitely an encounter. To what degree I’m unsure, but at the very least he saw the family somewhere and decided to kill them. I reflect back on the Ogikubo station posts and think it could have been there since the family also passed through. But the killer also wore tennis shoes and there is a tennis court right by the house, for example. A chance encounter somewhere is my bet. JMO.

From what I've read TMPD have dotted all their i's and sounds like direct connections have been ruled out. I guess I still like to be open though.

Yes agree, it could have been as simple as one of the victim's budging in line in front of the killer on the train or a diss or a short dialogue in a public place over something nonsensical but insulted the killer with rage or an 'I'll show you' type retaliation.

The killer strikes me as narcissistic and arrogant by what he did after the killings in the house, no regard whatsoever for human life or their belongings. Especially the toilet thing, that's a big 'eff U' to them even after how he already brutalized them.

 

[Incoherent]

The killer strikes me as narcissistic and arrogant by what he did after the killings in the house, no regard whatsoever for human life or their belongings. Especially the toilet thing, that's a big 'eff U' to them even after what he already brutally to them.

RSBM: very much agree.

 

[Charlot123]

About the balcony. Someone asked how there were no traces left on top of the car if he used it to stand on it and get to the balcony.

I wonder, the tape we have been discussing many times. The tape can be used for the skateboard, but it can also be put on top of the car hood or any horizontal surface the man used as the "support" to get to the balcony.

That tape is essentially a paper with a strong friction force. It is used for skateboards but can be used to scale surfaces, too. What if the intention was to use it to climb on the balcony? It is another question whether he put it back afterwards (then some of the sand in the tummy bag, as there were several found, not only the Mojave one, but Miuri coast as well, could be from the sneakers on the paper). Or maybe, he later threw out the used tape in the house, or burned, or shred and dumped into the bathroom paper mess.

<modsnip: Removed references to Reddit account which is off limits>

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Forgive me, I'm always late to interesting cases and trying to catch up. This is an overwhelming one, lot of pages! I've been reading to try to not repeat thoughts, discussions, etc.

I'm in a rush today but a few questions and thoughts I have (again sorry if already discussed a million times, I have tried to keep track!):

No apologies necessary, @Lalalacasbah. The thread is so big, nobody can keep track of these things anyway. Welcome! And thanks for your ideas.

1. Was that chemical agent ruled out not to be connected to graffiti paint or stage set/design? I know traces in the garage but the theatre connection gets me a bit...

In all likelihood it was merely highlighter pen. Of the many investigative avenues, this one seems among the least promising according to all the conversations I've had.

2. Sounds like a car is the consensus to leave crime scene. Sounds like a skateboard wouldn't be used because the distance theorized?

I don't know about consensus. I do, however, think he used a car. And it hasn't been discounted. It would also solve a lot of the issues around his escape.

3. I can't shake the skateboarder/car park confrontation either as a possible trigger as mentioned upthread recently by @SteveL ... My father worked in a maximum security prison interviewing violent and dangerous offenders (Canada) and mentioned many murders are committed because something as little as a 'put down'. Comment made, attacker stews on it for hours, days, weeks and even months then goes back to commenter and commits murder.

I've posted extensively on the skater thing. In short, the TMPD have gone after skaters for 24 years. Fingerprinted scores of them. I've spoken to some of these guys who used to skate at the park. One even had memories of Mikio coming out, asking them to keep the noise down (politely, and they all did as asked). They were all eliminated from the case. I don't say it's impossible that a slight could've been the trigger for these murders. Only that there is practically zero in this case that links the murders to skaters.

4. This almost seems like incel before there was incel in a way. The females were brutalized more - even after death. I wonder if attacker was acquainted with the mother in some form (in passing, teaching, at a store, a put down or whatever) and she was the ultimate target and rest collateral damage (awful thing to say). I wondered about the 2chan/4chan connection if there was any type of 'incel' type discussions happening way back then. Oddly, this has case gives me Idaho 4 vibes in a way too.

I disagree on the violence. Not that it's not a possibility -- it is -- just that we could argue it either way. We don't know the driver for the difference in murders. It could be hatred. It also could be that, as he killed Rei first, he wanted to stay as quiet as possible, and with Mikio, he then needed to remove the threat. Maybe the violence visited on Niina and Yasuko was driven by a pathologic hatred or rage towards women. Or maybe it was simply that now he felt free to 'let go' as it were. Or maybe what angered him was that his plan was imperfect, he had hurt himself and bled everywhere -- for all he knew in that moment, he was going to be caught, tried and hanged. No way he could've known he would be free all these years later. To be clear, what I'm disagreeing with isn't the possibility of an incel before incels had this term. Only that, if it were his motive re: Yasuko or Niina, I think the TMPD would've uncovered that by now. And if we're going by his actions in the house, that could be argued in a number of different ways.

As for 2Chan, you'll see throughout this thread that I've said multiple times, it's garbage. It was just a kid ****posting. He was found and eliminated from the investigation.

5. Has it been totally ruled out the killer wasn't let in through the front door? If there was any brief acquaintance in passing at all (theatre, friend of Mom' student, kid from the skate park/park) maybe he was let in even accidentally or if feeling disarmed if attacker sounded like he needed help.

It's not been totally ruled but, as per my recent posts, there's so much wrong / illogical in the premise, that I think it's comfortably the least likely.

IIRC the etiquette and culture is different in Japan and most folks don't knock on other's door but I can't remember what I read on that here. If I get a knock at our door that time of night, I would look who and ask and decide to open it. Someone could've came to the door acting as a good samaritan - telling the Father 'hey your car door is open' or something. ETA: I realize this thought is moot. Rei was killed first so the timing and order of events wouldn't make sense being let in I don't think

I think the idea that a known person would come for a late night visit and Mikio would let him upstairs where his family was asleep is highly unlikely. Also, remember that the killer took off a handkerchief that was pinched in the front which the TMPD say is from his nose -- put another, he was masking his face. It's technically possible he might've taken it off at the door to smile for the peephole and just had it in his hand or pocket. But I find that unlikely given the sequence of murders / his actions. This is a man that didn't want his face to be seen.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

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I've posted this a hundred times; there is ZERO evidence of the slippers. I don't care what wikipedia says (without solid links by the way, they're mostly dead or just mentions of a newspaper and the month of publication). I can tell you categorically that there is no evidence the killer knew the family or had been in their house prior to the murders. So, unless LE was lying to my face for no real reason, we are free to believe the official line of investigation, or a wikipedia page entry -- after hitting the translate button, no less.

 

[Charlot123]

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Nic, do you, by any chance, know if a robbery aiming at something expensive has been fully ruled out by TMPD as the motive for the Setagaya murders? (What do we know here about true cost of things? I just went to an Asian museum, only to realize that an unpresentable piece of old jade is worth millions, because, Tang dynasty). And then, go find what has been stolen from the Miyazawas, given the mess and that it looks like a disgruntled student was searching through Yasuko’s papers?

Some things might look like more than one person was involved. That the DNA of one person has been found doesn’t mean there was only one. It just means that someone is free to plan more. TMPD probably saw many DNAs, but only one was linked to murders, meaning the killer was young, and he did his job poorly.

I don’t rule out your poi. I just wonder if he had some local friends and, given that he planned on leaving anyhow, he just decided to participate in a robbery, or something thrilling. Then things went badly wrong. That doesn’t explain the killing of Rei, but nothing explains it, tbh. It stands out so much that is almost a separate clue.

 

[Incoherent]

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The killer going up and down the staircase, using the computer on the 1F, discarding the sanitary towel next to it, taking money from the shelves down there, dumping documents, throwing cabinet drawers, is all factual though. It is impossible for the only footprints found to be going up the staircase. The TMPD have explicitly stated Rei was killed first so how could the killer begin downstairs with Mikio and work his way up? By that time blood was absolutely everywhere and he was injured, yet nothing was found on Rei. It simply does not make sense.
While I can agree we cannot know the 100% exact movements of the killer that night, there is a degree of certainty with a lot of it and having footprints only ascending is quite frankly an impossibility.
<modsnip>

 

[Janitor101]

It's possible Rei was strangled simply because the killer woke Rei inadvertently by creating noise as the killer fumbled with those sliding glass doors. Maybe Rei was awakened as the killer approached his bed and Rei attempted to make a run for it. In the struggle to subdue Rei, the killer simply had no time to scramble for his knife and was forced to asphyxiate the boy instead. This may be the reason Rei was found 'askew" on his bed.

But why no muddy footprints were visible on the family car is still a mystery (see @Incoherents photo of the car above) especially if it was the killer himself who left his footprints underneath the bathroom window. Did he remove his shoes before he shimmied up the balcony? It's possible, I guess.

I still think it's also possible he may have used the bathroom window as an exit point even though no threads or fibers, etc. were found. He had shed almost all of his belongings inside the house and maybe he just got lucky leaving no evidence behind in the window.

Did I read that the group of LE officers and lab techs that were first to process the scene weren't top notch as the more experienced group were off celebrating the NY holiday?

Maybe they missed something?

 

[GreK]

Thoughts about the balcony. It should be open, meaning a latch or a lock. There are four possible options:

- He opened it himself, i.e. he was in the house earlier and did it himself in advance. Under the guise of a student, an acquaintance, from work, a delivery man, a master, etc. - but he was there personally.

- He knew Rei, convinced him to leave the lock open, under some pretext. He would bring a gift, a lot of cool dinosaurs, for example. Rei was taken in and did it. Maybe he was even waiting for him and opened it for him, and then it was a matter of technique.

- Someone opened it for him, an accomplice, so to speak. There are many options for who it could have been. He was in the house that day and did it.

- They really forgot to close it.

He couldn't have known that Niina would get sick and wouldn't sleep there with Rei on the top bunk. If so, then it will be much harder to deal with two than with one, if he planned everything, then his plan should have included a way to deal with two quickly and effectively. Then there should have been a plan for the sequence of actions (order of murders). In retrospect, he was very lucky, because he could not calculate and think through such a sequence in advance, it is spontaneous.

About the bathroom window, for example, if you use something that does not leave fibers and traces, then you can crawl through the window unnoticed. For example, a thick plastic bag without a pattern, or turned inside out, a pattern with paint on the inside, and clean on the outside, if you put it on the window correctly, then there will be no fibers from clothes, it is convenient to slide along it in clothes, then the bag is removed and there are no traces of clothes and fingerprints.

 

[Deleted member 347117]

Hi people, I’m new to this thread. I have some questions about the Yokota Highschool yearbook archives. I have gone through them and tried to find answers myself. It’s still very vague and uncertain in my head. <modsnip> in the 2000 yearbook was the POI a Senior, a Junior, Sophomore, …?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don't know about consensus. I do, however, think he used a car. And it hasn't been discounted. It would also solve a lot of the issues around his escape.

I have to think that TMPD must know his escape transportation and would they possibly be keeping this close to the vest? I'm unsure Japan LE do this like Canadian/US LE do - where they keep key elements of crimes and things only the killer would know to themselves. The killer must've left a bloody trail from shoes and an odd drip from his wound, no? That would lead to where a car might be parked on main road or if on foot (around back let's say) or bike (main road or trail), etc. I find it a little crazy he didn't leave a trail. I imagine this was discussed way back in the threads already, I should try to search!

I've posted extensively on the skater thing. In short, the TMPD have gone after skaters for 24 years. Fingerprinted scores of them. I've spoken to some of these guys who used to skate at the park. One even had memories of Mikio coming out, asking them to keep the noise down (politely, and they all did as asked). They were all eliminated from the case. I don't say it's impossible that a slight could've been the trigger for these murders. Only that there is practically zero in this case that links the murders to skaters.

I guess I had wondered if a foreigner/son of military/army brat student did skateboarding in his spare time while bored (I get the impression the killer is one to get bored easy - everyone else is below him kind of arrogance). So maybe not one of the regular gang who lived there and are still there. Someone who came and went but witnessed exchanges with Mikio/skaters. I wonder if those you interviewed remembered any "tourist" skaters or ones who suddenly weren't there anymore.

I feel bad for the skaters, they can get a bad rap! I hung out with the skateboarders in high school in the 90s and remember the prejudices back then. And heaven forbid having a nose ring in the 90s!

I think the idea that a known person would come for a late night visit and Mikio would let him upstairs where his family was asleep is highly unlikely. Also, remember that the killer took off a handkerchief that was pinched in the front which the TMPD say is from his nose -- put another, he was masking his face. It's technically possible he might've taken it off at the door to smile for the peephole and just had it in his hand or pocket. But I find that unlikely given the sequence of murders / his actions. This is a man that didn't want his face to be seen.

Oh I didn't know this... about masking his face. That almost says he thought he'd be recognized. I get burglars will wear creepy masks/toque things and whatnot but this seems to signify he did interact (if even briefly) somewhere they might recognize him, otherwise why bother hiding the face if random?

If random, there'd be no point unless this wasn't his first crime/offence and he was worried his description would be connected/cross-referenced with another crime committed somewhere that was possibly reported. I hope TMPD have looked into other crimes reported leading up to this one just in case.

 

[Incoherent]

I can also confirm it definitely was Seiyu that sold the sashimi knife to the man a few days before the murder who was cleared by TMPD a few years ago, meaning it was also definitely sold at Seiyu, Ogikubo station. Another solid for Ogikubo again.


Funnily enough the Seiyu the cleared man bought the knife at is the next train station from Ogikubo, just 3 minutes away. If it was Ogikubo where the knife was bought, the killer and the cleared man were just minutes from one another buying the same knife around the same time. I’m sure that stung the TMPD when it turned out he wasn’t involved.

 

[Incoherent]

@Lalalacasbah I also hung around with skaters in the early 00’s (high five! haha), but just on that - there are videos out there on YouTube of the groups of skaters who used the adjacent skate park by the Miyazawa house and they were certainly not a quiet bunch let’s just say that. If you search 祖師谷公園スケボー they’ll come up. Most are early 00’s not too long after the family were killed, so likely some were around when it happened. Interesting to see.

In fact, that skate park still has big groups who use it today and it now includes elementary school skaters too. They have dedicated clean up groups to prevent it from getting too messy with leftover trash, cans, bottles, etc, now though.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

@Lalalacasbah I also hung around with skaters in the early 00’s (high five! haha), but just on that - there are videos out there on YouTube of the groups of skaters who used the adjacent skate park by the Miyazawa house and they were certainly not a quiet bunch let’s just say that. If you search 祖師谷公園スケボー they’ll come up. Most are early 00’s not too long after the family were killed, so likely some were around when it happened. Interesting to see.

In fact, that skate park still has big groups who use it today and it now includes elementary school skaters too. They have dedicated clean up groups to prevent it from getting too messy with leftover trash, cans, bottles, etc, now though.

Thanks, that's wild! Yes, skating isn't quiet and with young children trying to get to nap/get to bed I totally get the annoyance now that I'm a parent haha... I'm glad the skate park is still used.

I think the killer was a bit on the fringe/socially awkward and never quite fit in. So if a skateboarder (or not) and interacted with this regular group in some form at the skate park, I feel like he wasn't quite 'in' the cool/regular crowd. He would've been in and out and almost outcast/observer (poser?).

I think he was an outcast and maybe that's why the expensive/overtly stylish clothes? BUT I am thinking like a Canadian who isn't in Tokyo! However, I do remember the 00's well (living in Vancouver BC at the time)... the killers style was typical and trendy - not skate clothes I have seen skaters skate in. Most guys I knew wouldn't skate in those clothes but more like something one would wear who was really trendy. MOO