Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000

[FacelessPodcast]

@FacelessPodcast, it is my understanding that with Japanese perfectionism, they even described the pattern of the perpetrator's fingerprints, all peculiar details. But not all countries refused to cooperate, and specifically, one of their neighbors didn't? Which was surprising to me as the country is part of the Interpol. I don't know if you are able to comment on it, and in general, how much can the Interpol do in these cases? Or did I simply misunderstand something in their Wikipedia?

I'm not sure about them describing the fingerprint itself, I've never seen that. If they did, I don't think it was translated into English-speaking media. But as I understand it, there was only an INITIAL lack of co-operation. I think specifically with South Korea. But this was cleared up, the Koreans checked their national database and found nothing. So, to put it another way, the killer is not Korean by birth or citizenship. He is not resident in Korea. Nor has he ever visited in the country. Now, that is interesting assuming what was said about his DNA is true and he IS ethnically Korean...

As for Interpol, I can only say that I was told the case has been lodged with them. Interpol is merely an information sharing system for police forces across the world. They themselves aren't 'doing' anything in the Miyazawa case. I assume they would notify the TMPD should this man's fingerprints be found in another crime somewhere in the world. In theory.

 

[lilykaluva]

I also recently finished the podcast, and really appreciated how respectful it was and how extensive your research was. It's also really difficult to find decent English language coverage too. This case has always broken my heart and been so frustrating because there's so much evidence, and yet it's gone unsolved. Wishing you the best as you continue to investigate, regardless of whether how this POI turns out! (I've always thought that military kid seems incredibly likely as the actions do seem like that of a teenage offender, but who knows.)
Also, if you're still looking for a name for your POI in another podcast, "誰誰" or "dare-dare" is often used in Japanese for "so-and-so" or a hypothetical person, though it literally means "who, who?"

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I also recently finished the podcast, and really appreciated how respectful it was and how extensive your research was. It's also really difficult to find decent English language coverage too. This case has always broken my heart and been so frustrating because there's so much evidence, and yet it's gone unsolved. Wishing you the best as you continue to investigate, regardless of whether how this POI turns out! (I've always thought that military kid seems incredibly likely as the actions do seem like that of a teenage offender, but who knows.)
Also, if you're still looking for a name for your POI in another podcast, "誰誰" or "dare-dare" is often used in Japanese for "so-and-so" or a hypothetical person, though it literally means "who, who?"

That's very kind, Lily, much appreciated. I'm especially pleased you found it respectful, that was my core principle throughout. That was my starting point but meeting Setsuko Miyazawa was one of the most humbling experiences in my life. That's why I have a hard time ignoring idiotic comments on youtube videos for example, or speaking rationally about the work of 'Fumiya Ichihashi'. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

As for your name suggestion, I love it! I think it would be a hard sell to an American podcast platform sadly but "who, who?" is chilling! Thanks again

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not sure about them describing the fingerprint itself, I've never seen that. If they did, I don't think it was translated into English-speaking media. But as I understand it, there was only an INITIAL lack of co-operation. I think specifically with South Korea. But this was cleared up, the Koreans checked their national database and found nothing. So, to put it another way, the killer is not Korean by birth or citizenship. He is not resident in Korea. Nor has he ever visited in the country. Now, that is interesting assuming what was said about his DNA is true and he IS ethnically Korean...

As for Interpol, I can only say that I was told the case has been lodged with them. Interpol is merely an information sharing system for police forces across the world. They themselves aren't 'doing' anything in the Miyazawa case. I assume they would notify the TMPD should this man's fingerprints be found in another crime somewhere in the world. In theory.

If I understood the Japanese translation correctly, they describe an interesting papillary pattern on the thumbs. Not a scar, but some peculiarity. The Japanese wiki says that South Korea initially refused to cooperate, but somehow it came to Japan saying that the perpetrator was not South Korean and then South Korea looked through their database.

I would not be surprised if the person is ethnically Korean and yet somehow, historically, linked to Japan. Of course, the relationship between the two groups is incredibly complex.

@FacelessPodcast, what I have noticed is that Koryo-saram group is not even considered by the Japanese police. Even now, there are about 0,5 million living in post-Soviet place. As most were deported to Central Asia, I can easily imagine someone having a Korean father and an Uzbek mother, for example. (As to the maternal mitogroup - it is an uncommon subclade of the commonest mitogroup, so I am not convinced it is limited by Southern Europe.) And, many Koryo-sarams left the post-Soviet countries in the 90es for South Korea, and returned back. If anyone returned back to Central Asia, there is a way to later move to Turkey or within Europe. Do you happen to know when they started fingerprinting on entering Japan?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

If I understood the Japanese translation correctly, they describe an interesting papillary pattern on the thumbs. Not a scar, but some peculiarity. The Japanese wiki says that South Korea initially refused to cooperate, but somehow it came to Japan saying that the perpetrator was not South Korean and then South Korea looked through their database.

I would not be surprised if the person is ethnically Korean and yet somehow, historically, linked to Japan. Of course, the relationship between the two groups is incredibly complex.

@FacelessPodcast, what I have noticed is that Koryo-saram group is not even considered by the Japanese police. Even now, there are about 0,5 million living in post-Soviet place. As most were deported to Central Asia, I can easily imagine someone having a Korean father and an Uzbek mother, for example. (As to the maternal mitogroup - it is an uncommon subclade of the commonest mitogroup, so I am not convinced it is limited by Southern Europe.) And, many Koryo-sarams left the post-Soviet countries in the 90es for South Korea, and returned back. If anyone returned back to Central Asia, there is a way to later move to Turkey or within Europe. Do you happen to know when they started fingerprinting on entering Japan?

That's interesting re: the thumb patterns. I'd never seen that before. I wonder what 'peculiarity' means? Fingerprinting at Japanese airports came into effect in 2007 and 2008. And it seems to be that there are several things the TMPD have not considered, sadly. I say this without any criticism.

Wherever the killer is from, he had to have a way of leaving the country and never coming back. (I cannot accept that he's Jason Bourne, eluding police, living off the grid). And he could be from anywhere, of course. Though it is inescapable that he is someone who managed to gain access to Edwards AFB pre December 2000. The most logical answer for that would be American. Given the largest Korean population outside of Korea is in the US, it makes sense.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

That's interesting re: the thumb patterns. I'd never seen that before. I wonder what 'peculiarity' means? Fingerprinting at Japanese airports came into effect in 2007 and 2008. And it seems to be that there are several things the TMPD have not considered, sadly. I say this without any criticism.

Wherever the killer is from, he had to have a way of leaving the country and never coming back. (I cannot accept that he's Jason Bourne, eluding police, living off the grid). And he could be from anywhere, of course. Though it is inescapable that he is someone who managed to gain access to Edwards AFB pre December 2000. The most logical answer for that would be American. Given the largest Korean population outside of Korea is in the US, it makes sense.

Wait. How do we know he left the country and never came back? Is it not possible he is still in the country, flying under the radar?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Wait. How do we know he left the country and never came back? Is it not possible he is still in the country, flying under the radar?

We don't know for sure he left the country, of course. That's just my feeling. It is possible he's been eluding the police for 23 years and living off the grid. I just don't buy it.

 

[Charlot123]

We don't know for sure he left the country, of course. That's just my feeling. It is possible he's been eluding the police for 23 years and living off the grid. I just don't buy it.

It is not impossible. If I were to live off the grid I’d move to Hokkaido where local customs might be slightly at variance with the Japanese traditions. In any country, there might be lots of places where the police presence is less than welcomed; the real goal would be to settle in the place where the country police has less power or is simply unwilling to go.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It is not impossible. If I were to live off the grid I’d move to Hokkaido where local customs might be slightly at variance with the Japanese traditions. In any country, there might be lots of places where the police presence is less than welcomed; the real goal would be to settle in the place where the country police has less power or is simply unwilling to go.

No, not impossible, I just find it very unlikely. As I've said many times, I don't think he's a Japanese kid due to varying factors, not least of which is the access to Edwards AFB. So, then we would be talking about likely a foreign kid (assuming the police were right about him being young) who lives off the grid for 23 years without being able to get proper employment or be subject to background checks. But, at the same time, never stealing anything or getting in any kind of trouble. It's possible, of course, that he has a wealthy family protecting him and hiding him within Japan.

As for Hokkaido, I cannot speak to its variances from Japanese traditions -- my take was that it is simply Japan. But as for police presence being unwelcome: police in Japan have more powers than almost any other comparable force in the world. Outside of organised crime (which I understand is dwindling with each year) 'no-go zones' simply do not exist. I think the killer would have a hard time living amongst thieves in some den or whatever. But of course, this could just be my own ignorance speaking.

My feeling is that if he is still in Japan, he is dead, his bones up on a mountain somewhere. Or he's alive and well but far away. Both require the last 23 years to be far more unremarkable than the alternative.

 

[Charlot123]

No, not impossible, I just find it very unlikely. As I've said many times, I don't think he's a Japanese kid due to varying factors, not least of which is the access to Edwards AFB. So, then we would be talking about likely a foreign kid (assuming the police were right about him being young) who lives off the grid for 23 years without being able to get proper employment or be subject to background checks. But, at the same time, never stealing anything or getting in any kind of trouble. It's possible, of course, that he has a wealthy family protecting him and hiding him within Japan.

As for Hokkaido, I cannot speak to its variances from Japanese traditions -- my take was that it is simply Japan. But as for police presence being unwelcome: police in Japan have more powers than almost any other comparable force in the world. Outside of organised crime (which I understand is dwindling with each year) 'no-go zones' simply do not exist. I think the killer would have a hard time living amongst thieves in some den or whatever. But of course, this could just be my own ignorance speaking.

My feeling is that if he is still in Japan, he is dead, his bones up on a mountain somewhere. Or he's alive and well but far away. Both require the last 23 years to be far more unremarkable than the alternative.

(Now, it is my love of Scandinavian detective novels speaking Someone, somewhere hid in a Saami village in one of the books). Northern Hokkaido. In a fisher’s village of their indigenous people. It might work only if they don’t even guess that I am a murderer, but the Japanese police has eased up things for me by putting discarded clothes on a faceless mannequin.
(It sounds more fantastic that US base, but if I try to avoid the country police, I’d settle in the place where the police tries not to show up - not out of fear, but because of politics.)

 

[Frankie Hellis]

No, not impossible, I just find it very unlikely. As I've said many times, I don't think he's a Japanese kid due to varying factors, not least of which is the access to Edwards AFB. So, then we would be talking about likely a foreign kid (assuming the police were right about him being young) who lives off the grid for 23 years without being able to get proper employment or be subject to background checks. But, at the same time, never stealing anything or getting in any kind of trouble. It's possible, of course, that he has a wealthy family protecting him and hiding him within Japan.

As for Hokkaido, I cannot speak to its variances from Japanese traditions -- my take was that it is simply Japan. But as for police presence being unwelcome: police in Japan have more powers than almost any other comparable force in the world. Outside of organised crime (which I understand is dwindling with each year) 'no-go zones' simply do not exist. I think the killer would have a hard time living amongst thieves in some den or whatever. But of course, this could just be my own ignorance speaking.

My feeling is that if he is still in Japan, he is dead, his bones up on a mountain somewhere. Or he's alive and well but far away. Both require the last 23 years to be far more unremarkable than the alternative.

So can you explain why he would have to be living off grid? Would he have to give dna or fingerprints to get a job in Japan? Because otherwise he could just be living his life without triggering a match of either.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

So can you explain why he would have to be living off grid? Would he have to give dna or fingerprints to get a job in Japan? Because otherwise he could just be living his life without triggering a match of either.

To be clear, he absolutely could be living a normal life. I don't know for a fact he's not. I just have a very strong suspicion that given the scars on him, given the lengths the TMPD have gone to, given how aggressively they have been fingerprinting random skaters etc (seemingly without their consent it sounds like), I just think he would have an extremely difficult time in living out that normal life under the radar Japan. But as I say, totally possible.

Though again, for him to be Japanese, he would need to be one that has access to Edwards USAF before December 2000 while at the same time likely being a teenager according to the TMPD. That to me just makes it far likelier that he's an American.

 

[fridaybaker]

I wonder if TMPD have the same idea. Not your specific suspect, necessarily, but that he’s an American and that pursuing him is just a “no go” for diplomatic reasons. If so, that would be tragic.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but could you tell me more about the 2Chan connection? I haven’t heard of this. (Also @FacelessPodcast , apologies if you have answered this before, but are transcripts available for your podcast? I’m hearing impaired but very much want to enjoy the podcast too.) Thank you.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I wonder if TMPD have the same idea. Not your specific suspect, necessarily, but that he’s an American and that pursuing him is just a “no go” for diplomatic reasons. If so, that would be tragic.

It has been a worry for me. What looks worse? The infinite mystery or knowing who he is and being impotent in catching him? I would assume you save more face in the first instance...

 

[fridaybaker]

How do military families move between “assignments”? (Not sure that’s what they’re called. I mean moving from one country to the other to different posts/bases.)
I’m wondering about the hand wounds. It would have taken at least a little time for the wounds to heal some in order for killer to be walking around in public without drawing attention to himself I’d think. Maybe “shipped out” a few weeks or so afterward? If the father were scheduled to ship out imminently, perhaps that would enable the suspect the fly under the radar School-wise.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but could you tell me more about the 2Chan connection? I haven’t heard of this. (Also @FacelessPodcast , apologies if you have answered this before, but are transcripts available for your podcast? I’m hearing impaired but very much want to enjoy the podcast too.) Thank you.

Not at all! All questions welcome

The 2chan connection was simply that a few days before the murders, somebody on a Japanese message board describing themselves as a teenaged boy talked about killing and maiming animals. Crucially, they mentioned a park and the death of a family before the end of the year. Now, obviously this is either the killer or a chilling coincidence. Well, I spoke with the former Chief investigator of these murders and he assured me that line of inquiry was eliminated. I don't have great detail on that front but we can assume the kid (or whoever it was posting) was not the murderer as we've heard nothing more about it. If you want to see the posts themselves, I uploaded them a few pages back. A week or two ago, you shouldn't have to trawl too far back.

And shamefully, I don't believe transcripts were made of the podcast! I'm so sorry about that, I assumed there were but I just looked now on the USG website and can't see them. One alternative is to try something like Speechify or some such where you can pipe the audio in and it creates a transcript for you? Alternatively, if that doesn't work, private message me and I'll see if I can track down the scripts for the episodes.

 

[fridaybaker]

Nic, I’m sure you’ve thought of this, but is there any way to track the timing of your suspect’s father’s subsequent movements between bases maybe via social media? Facebook mentions, etc? LinkedIn?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

How do military families move between “assignments”? (Not sure that’s what they’re called. I mean moving from one country to the other to different posts/bases.)
I’m wondering about the hand wounds. It would have taken at least a little time for the wounds to heal some in order for killer to be walking around in public without drawing attention to himself I’d think. Maybe “shipped out” a few weeks or so afterward? If the father were scheduled to ship out imminently, perhaps that would enable the suspect the fly under the radar School-wise.

I don't know exactly how the rotations work but if the killer was 18 or so and it's January 2001, I really don't think it would be that difficult for him to come up with a story for a bandage on his hand for an injury sustained over the holidays, and then simply slink off back to the US a few weeks or months later onboard the Patriot Express to attend whatever university. There's been many questions about scrutiny and whatnot. Maybe I'm being naive, but I just can't imagine him being grilled on-base. What are they going to do, start doing an internal investigation on the off-chance the killer was in-house because there's a murder in the news? I'd honestly be willing to bet that a lot of folk on-base in those first few months of 2001 hadn't even heard of these murders. Possibly even to this day. JMO ofc.

For the record, my POI left in exactly the way I've described, his father stayed on-base for a few more years.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, I’m sure you’ve thought of this, but is there any way to track the timing of your suspect’s father’s subsequent movements between bases maybe via social media? Facebook mentions, etc? LinkedIn?

See my last post! I can't talk too much about his movements.