JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #2

[oldwindow]

DNA is only one piece of evidence...they still need to try to place him at crime scene, near the arena, etc, somewhere Morgan was known to be, make sure he was not out of town, check alibi as best as possible. At least one "Cold Case Files" I watched had a DNA match from a coffee cup just the start of putting a case together. First thing they needed to rule out was any chance that the killer knew the victim and could have been in a consensual relationship. They then moved on to determining where he was that night. So it is not just DNA= entire case.

I'm sorry and I.m not trying to rude. Dna does not work in the format restriction for all DNA. This would depend on the type of DNA found Some are stronger than others and some seal the fate of the perp.. How it was found and what was found.. Let say for example semen, this put him there, put a lot of crimes things there. So there's no need do all alibi and etc. Unless you want to string along a lie of the perp and make them look bad in the court room.

Now if they find a shoe. This would be what your talking about.. that's is called a cat and mouse case. That what I like to call them some, call them "Oj" cases. Yes I have a sense of humor.

But if they found semen. That's not a cat & mouse case. That we lawyers call check mate, because its very to beat in the court and also a dead body found please note, finding a dead body needs something like dna to damn(convict) the perp for the DP(death penalty) if not only life in prision. But to my points,.. Semen will put him there with the person, time don't matter, His/her albi don't matter. All that is , just stringing along differ methods for scenario really. Defeating his/.her doubt or innocence if you will.

Please note im not saying this is what they found or your wrong.. I'm jus expanding on your quote to straighten it out ,so its more fair judged.

There certain type of DNA some more damning than others.. Btw his lawyer he has is very ,very good, the more evidence you have in public, the better for the accused chances to beat it . So it best omit some things from a LE stand point.

 

[cluciano63]

If DNA evidence is enough to exonerate someone, shouldn't the opposite be true, i.e. that is should be enough for a conviction? I thought the chance of a DNA match is 1 to a billion? I'm not a criminal attorney or forensic scientist, so I am really interested in an explanation. I totally get that they want to take their time to get an airtight case before charges are brought.

It depends what the DNA is and where it was found, etc...
But they do need to be able to show that incidental contact could not have produced it, as well as rule out any possibilities of a consensual encounter, later followed by "another guy" who happened to murder her. Of course this is ludicrous, but defense attorneys will bring up whatever might convince one person.

 

[Gypsy Road]

If there is evidence that Jesse was responsible for the death of Morgan Harrington, why aren't there charges ... or perhaps the question should be, when will there be charges?

I have been wondering the same thing. Wonder if they are conducting more tests? Gathering more evidence? I realize they have him in custody and he isn't going anywhere, but I wonder why he hasn't been charged yet?

 

[Gypsy Road]

DNA is only one piece of evidence...they still need to try to place him at crime scene, near the arena, etc, somewhere Morgan was known to be, make sure he was not out of town, check alibi as best as possible. At least one "Cold Case Files" I watched had a DNA match from a coffee cup just the start of putting a case together. First thing they needed to rule out was any chance that the killer knew the victim and could have been in a consensual relationship. They then moved on to determining where he was that night. So it is not just DNA= entire case.

Hmmm....it's been 5 years. I hope to goodness that if JM was driving his taxi cab that night and around the arena that the now defunct cab company still has those records. Would be curious as well if they still had the cab JM was driving during that time. I'm not even sure JM was working as a cab driver on the night Morgan was murdered - just thinking out loud.

 

[Le Singe]

I had a good friend that's a detective in our state tell me that due to costs, we don't utilize CODIS. It costs money/time to update all the DNA. Therefore most DNA that has been taken isn't entered. Just food for thought just jumping off your post.

this is horrible everyone should HAVE to use it ...

 

[Le Singe]

If there is evidence that Jesse was responsible for the death of Morgan Harrington, why aren't there charges ... or perhaps the question should be, when will there be charges?

they just found out who their guy is now they have to track and at least try to find some other links to him, which is not easy 5 years later. He's not going anywhere so I think they are taking their time. Once you charge him it starts the count down till you have to try him.

 

[Le Singe]

If DNA evidence is enough to exonerate someone, shouldn't the opposite be true, i.e. that is should be enough for a conviction? I thought the chance of a DNA match is 1 to a billion? I'm not a criminal attorney or forensic scientist, so I am really interested in an explanation. I totally get that they want to take their time to get an airtight case before charges are brought.

he didn't kill her with his DNA it just proves he had contact with her. At the end of they day it might be enough but they will have a way way better case if they can provide some other links.

 

[oldwindow]

Because all case are treated as separate.


Say for example in 1985 I robbed a store and shot the clerk. They may have my dna there at the scene. But don't who I am, I have no record.

Now I go 5 counties over in same state. I robbed another store and shoot the clerk . This time they catch me. 14yrs later

Now its hard to put 2 case together and charge some one with both with time lapse in certain case and both treated a separate to start. Some will say its a witch hunt.. Some crimes cases get closed over period of time and defense attorney will bring that point up so quick. Evidence does expires in certain cases, once they close. This is why a lot guys don't go to jail for all they crime they commit. This is why a lot case stay open or is called a working case. So the evidence can stay good in court. Le has gotten smarter and better over the years

Time lapse for closed case hurts the victims. Yes they can re open it and same time its very problematic, a lot of those cases just lack, a lot evidence, for starters camera, memory of the witness etc, its just field day for defense to eat Le alive. But the FBI never close cases from my understanding, and they can open any case. In my opinion if have a unsolved case call the FBI and ask them to file it and keep it open for you, because the city/county in most states really don't have the resource's to keep every case open. *Just remember everybody has a boss over them, use them if you have too*.

Sad but true.

 

[Le Singe]

I'm sorry and I.m not trying to rude. Dna does not work in the format restriction for all DNA. This would depend on the type of DNA found Some are stronger than others and some seal the fate of the perp.. How it was found and what was found.. Let say for example semen, this put him there, put a lot of crimes things there. So there's no need do all alibi and etc. Unless you want to string along a lie of the perp and make them look bad in the court room.

Now if they find a shoe. This would be what your talking about.. that's is called a cat and mouse case. That what I like to call them some, call them "Oj" cases. Yes I have a sense of humor.

But if they found semen. That's not a cat & mouse case. That we lawyers call check mate, because its very to beat in the court and also a dead body found please finding dead body need something dna to damn(convict) the perp for the DP if not only life in prision. But to my points,.. Semen will put him there with the person, time don't matter, His/her albi don't matter. All that is , just stringing along differ methods for scenario really. Defeating his/.her doubt or innocence if you will.

Please note im not saying this is what they found or your wrong.. I'm jus expanding on your quote to straighten it out ,so its more fair judged.

There certain type DNA some more damning than others.. Btw his lawyer he has is very ,very good, the more evidence you have in public, the better for the accused chances to beat it . So it best omit some things from a LE stand point.

even if they had seman wouldn't you think they would take there time and see if they could place him in the area etc. to make a stronger case since they are not in a hurry?

 

[justwannahelp]

I wish we could combine the Morgan and Fairfax Thread with the Other Possible Victims thread. How do we ask mods for this? Or am I the only one who feels this way.

 

[Wondergirl]

U-Va. suspect Jesse L. Matthew Jr. twice accused of college sex assaults


By*Mary Pat Flaherty*and*T. Rees Shapiro*October 1 at 11:36 PM***

The suspect in the disappearance of University of Virginia sophomore Hannah Graham was accused of sexual assaults at two Virginia colleges he attended, and he left each school shortly after each allegation, according to school officials.

The alleged assaults occurred within an 11-month span from 2002 to 2003 as Jesse L. “LJ” Matthew Jr. moved from Liberty University in Lynchburg to Christopher Newport University in Newport News. Police investigated each report, but neither resulted in a criminal case, according to the Lynchburg prosecutor and a review of online court records in Newport News.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...b66508-4988-11e4-b72e-d60a9229cc10_story.html

 

[Gypsy Road]

Thinking out loud again regarding the cab. Like I said...I don't know if JM was working his cab driving job during that time, but if he was and if JM picked Morgan up in that cab...I wonder if any of her DNA would still be in there? Even if he didn't assault her inside the cab....it was reported she had a cut on her face and was bleeding. I am hoping that this is the method in which he abducted Morgan, and that she DID leave blood droplets in that cab that it can still be found. Maybe they don't even need that cab to bolster the case...???? Just thinking about things since we don't know what LE has.

 

[oldwindow]

@ le Singe Well yes very much so. Every case need to be laid out to make a point of view and correct measures taken for the correct charge to be applied.. Keep in mind its does not have to be fair to the defense or Perp with the charges. Just fair to courts.

Me personally knowing ,a case can be very strong in evidence and be lost. If you keep it simple but understandable, that's a strong hand in my eye. Never over complicate the case with so much evidence. Because the DA (defense attorney) will already do that for his client to get off.. Meaning he will use it versus you , So a lot of the work get dismissed, to hard to prove, too overly complicated to understand..

If they keep short and sweet, semen was found(no pun intended there). He/she pretty much there with the victim. Time and albi, wouldn't matter. Sex happened,, thats a criminal charge in Virginia if not married., even with out the body. But if they find a body and murdered, they can go for the DP which mean build up case., you don't have built a full case, Just case good enough to show intent and abuse if have you damning dna like semen for a rape.. Now Some would built strong, because the lawyer today are very good now days and paint a picture/story of the crime to scream consensual sex ..

But it pretty sewed up if they(le) play it right to the courts, regardless of what the (DA) do. The beyond a doubt is ruined. its already proved he/she was there.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I wish we could combine the Morgan and Fairfax Thread with the Other Possible Victims thread. How do we ask mods for this? Or am I the only one who feels this way.

You can PM a mod I think.

 

[billthom56]

If there is evidence that Jesse was responsible for the death of Morgan Harrington, why aren't there charges ... or perhaps the question should be, when will there be charges?

Law enforcement need more time to put their case together. They will go slow on this one.


Bill Thomas

 

[Tugela]

DNA is only one piece of evidence...they still need to try to place him at crime scene, near the arena, etc, somewhere Morgan was known to be, make sure he was not out of town, check alibi as best as possible. At least one "Cold Case Files" I watched had a DNA match from a coffee cup just the start of putting a case together. First thing they needed to rule out was any chance that the killer knew the victim and could have been in a consensual relationship. They then moved on to determining where he was that night. So it is not just DNA= entire case.

No they don't. If they have DNA evidence on the victim it means that the accused was in contact personally with the victim. Depending on where exactly they got their DNA from it would be good enough for an arrest.

Plus, we know that the DNA from Morgan matched that from the Jane Doe victim, and that is a much easier case to make. So, if they have his DNA then they should be in a position to charge immediately.

My guess is that any DNA they have (if that is what the forensic evidence is) was not collected from his person, but rather from his home or car. In that situation they would have to take another sample from him after he was in custody to determine if it really came form him and not someone else.

 

[Tugela]

If DNA evidence is enough to exonerate someone, shouldn't the opposite be true, i.e. that is should be enough for a conviction? I thought the chance of a DNA match is 1 to a billion? I'm not a criminal attorney or forensic scientist, so I am really interested in an explanation. I totally get that they want to take their time to get an airtight case before charges are brought.

DNA in itself doesn't indicate guilt. What it does is show that a person was at some point at a particular location. For example, say a husband is murdered in his home and they find samples of the wife's DNA there. It doesn't mean that she killed him, just that she was there, and since she lived there as well it would mean nothing.

If someone is a complete stranger however, and has no connection to the murdered person, and denies meeting them or ever being there, then the presence of their DNA at the scene would be compelling evidence.

 

[Tugela]

At the time he fled, local LE did not have the forensic results back from their search of his car and apartment. If I had to guess, the forensic evidence was what gave them enough probable cause to issue the arrest warrant. Think it was mostly just timing.

I am not going to complain about LE efforts in this-- they caught a guy who imo is most likely guilty and did it within 2 weeks.

They wouldn't have needed DNA. At that point they had the video and must have had the accounts from the people who worked at the bar. That would have been enough for an arrest warrant for abduction. Getting DNA from him would not have advanced their case any more than where it was already. So if they really did get forensic evidence implicating him, whatever it is, it is probably not DNA. If they really thought that he was the guy, then their behavior was guaranteed to make him run.

 

[Tugela]

Really? I totally disagree. Composite sketches are rarely spot on. Can you not see the similarities in the nose shape, lip shape, face shape, hair line? No...it doesn't look exactly like him...but there are definite similarities there.

I don't see much of a similarity, other than that it is a big black guy.

Those sketches are not too useful IMO, they utility is limited to a generic look. Part of the problem with them is that memory is plastic, and the process of generating the sketch can alter the memory of the witness through suggestion, so you can never be sure that what comes out in the end is really what the witness remembered at the start.

 

[Tugela]

The newer computer sketch is not AS MUCH as a resemblance. But the original, pencil drawn sketch absolutely is. Here is a direct, side by side comparison. Imagine JM a few years older with a full beard...definitely a match.

View attachment 60400

No it isn't. The shape of the face is different, the hairline is different, the eyebrow setting is different. Those are the sorts of characteristics that would best be remembered. And don't tell me their noses and lips look similar, because those are very common features in people of African descent.

They are similar in the sense that they are two heavy set black guys, but heavy set black guys are not that uncommon.